Help - new lone wolf barrel in glock - wont accept reloads

[003402]

I had a question related to glock and problems chambering a round with a cast boolit.

Situation: Brewed up a batch of .451 45 ACP cast bullets, which I was shooting out of my Glock 21 pistol. Would occasionally get a round jammed that was a bit oversized, not too big a deal. The vast majority loaded and fired, no problem.

Issue: Recently switched to a Lonewolf ported barrel and the chamber tolerances must be much tighter, because rounds that would chamber with the old barrel, won't with the new one. I have about 400 rounds of this batch of bullets. I had not previously run them through any sort of crimp die. is that something that might help?

any suggestions on salvaging these loads?

Thanks!
003402

[mooman76]

Crimping might help and the Lee factory crimp definately probably would.

[garandsrus]

003402,

A trick that some folks have used with other straight wall (relatively) cartridges is to remove the decapping stem from the sizing die and then run the completed round part way into the sizing die. This will reduce the diameter of the shell a little and may correct the problem for you.

Once you figure out how far to run the shell into the die, you can adjust the die to stop there and run all of them through.

John

[GabbyM]

tapper crimp die will fix that. I'm surprised you got away without it in any 45 acp.
usually makes things easier if you seat and crimp in separate operations. What you probably have is the longer cases were flared more from the expander plug. Now they are to large a diameter to chamber. Running them up in the crimp die just enough to turn the flare back tight will get them in spec.

[S.R.Custom]

Got a .243, .308, or a .358 Winchester rifle sizing die lying around by any chance? Take the capping pin out and run your loaded rounds up into them to size them just enough to easily chamber. The rifle dies are tapered, so you run the .45s up only as far as it takes to get a good fit in your .45 barrel. It usually doesn't take much... ;)

[Lloyd Smale]

try running them through a lee factory crmip die.

[sleeper1428]

I'd second the suggestion on using a Lee factory crimp die and I'd also suggest that you get a case gauge to check your loaded cartridges. Those Lone Wolf barrels are indeed cut to minimum tolerances - read that as correct specs - so each and every one of your loaded cartridges will need to be 'right on the money', so to speak, if you want them to function properly. I had the same problem with LW barrels on my Glock 22 and Glock 20 so now I've gotten in the habit of checking each loaded round in a case gauge to be sure it will indeed function properly in these tightly cut chambers.

sleeper1428

[sqlbullet]

Taper crimping to correct spec should fix your problem. Your cases should be .473 at the neck, .476 at the base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP). If you don't have a taper crimp die, you should buy one, but the trick with the sizing die will work. This is a relatively common problem for people who handload and buy Lone Wolf barrels.

[exile]

I don't have a glock .45, but I do have other glocks. What you are probably seeing is the fact that the Glock .45 barrels are notoriously loose in the chamber area. Once you fire a case in a glock barrel you are going to have a case that will not size down to normal dimensions. I do not have this problem with nine millimeter, but Glock 40's, 10 mills, and .45's all have this issue. My one suggestion would be to buy some new cases and fire them only through the Lone Wolf barrel. That will not help with your current problem, but might help in the future. Maybe this is stating the obvious, I don't know. Good luck.

exile

[MtGun44]

Taper crimp, avoid the Lee fcd if you can.

Bill

[ANeat]

Lone Wolf and many other aftermarket barrels are notorious for having an undersized chamber.

Ive checked and re-chambered quite a few, they wouldnt even accept a Clymer "go" chamber gauge untill a proper chamber reamer was used.

Another thing worth mentioning is the Glock factory 45acp barrels are known to be pretty lead friendly....

[AnthonyB]

In my experience with 4 Glock 45 ACPs (three M30s and one M30SF), if the pistol won't work with lead boolits there is something wrong with the ammo. Aftermarket barrels are a solution to a non-existent problem in 45 ACP chambering. I have no 9mm or 40 Glock experience, but the standard barrel does just fine in 45 ACP. Put the original barrel back in and shoot them. Tony

[003402]

All,

Thanks for all the great advice. I will try some of the tips to see what kind of results I get.

003402

[jdgabbard]

Something one of the older guys at the local reloading supply shop was telling me about is a die that he "says" Dillon makes. Its supposed to be a push through sizer for pistol brass. Takes the entire case down to spec. It may be complete BS, but you might look into it.

[MtGun44]

Jgdabbard,

Probably for "Glockified" 40s. I've been told that they swell up so much that after a
normal sizing die they won't chamber in other .40 S&W guns. I think it is Redding
that came out with this pushthru die to fix this, maybe others are following.

Bill

[Lee]

Hit the 'ol YouTube and do a search for "glock resizing .40" or some such. There is a short video shows how to do it. I think it uses a cheap Lee die and it is a push through sizing. Demo shows a case before and after, and the rerswults with a case gauge. More in a minute video than an hour of talk.......

[jlmomaha]

I know I am a little late here,I am a SBO in Omaha Ne I opened an account with LWD and purchased some items, one of which was a 6" barrel, it wouldnt feed any bullets, the chamber mouth edges were soo sharp that they would bite into the brass case and stop the slide from closing, I sent it back and am waiting to see whats going to happen.. was your issue resolved?

[Cadillo]

I don't have a glock .45, but I do have other glocks. What you are probably seeing is the fact that the Glock .45 barrels are notoriously loose in the chamber area. Once you fire a case in a glock barrel you are going to have a case that will not size down to normal dimensions. I do not have this problem with nine millimeter, but Glock 40's, 10 mills, and .45's all have this issue. My one suggestion would be to buy some new cases and fire them only through the Lone Wolf barrel. That will not help with your current problem, but might help in the future. Maybe this is stating the obvious, I don't know. Good luck.

exile


This Chap has it right. I had a Glock 23 and installed a Lone Wolf barrel in it. Any brass that had been fired in any other barrel prior to reloading would not chamber in this barrel. For a while I shot the gun with that barrel by shooting only factory ammo or reloads using brass originating from factory ammo shot out of this minimum size spec chamber.

Don't listen to this stuff about crimp. The cases are bulged within the lower half of the case, and your sizing die will not size down far enough(close to the case head) to iron it out. Even if it did, it would not be able to reduce the outside diameter of the case enough to permit chambering.

As for my gun with that brand barrel, I was able to trade it along with both barrels for a really nice HRA Garand to an LEO with a large cache of factory .40 S&W ammo to feed it. I had a similar, but not so drastic problem with my Les Baer .40 cal 1911, but the Baer chamber was not quite as tight as the Lone Wolf, and I was able to separate the usable reloads from the unusable using a case gage. The culls shot just fine in my Sig.

Redding now makes a .40 S&W push through sizing die. With this die, you push the case in through the bottom and out the top sizing the entire case. Ammo thus sized works perfectly in the Les Baer, and should also work just fine in the .40 cal. Lone Wolf Barrels. Given that Redding does not produce this push through die in .45 ACP, I agree that you are stuck with factory ammo or reloads formed from new brass or brass from ammo fired only in your Lone Wolf barrel.

Maybe with a little prodding, Redding will produce this die in .45 ACP and 9x19. I would by one of each as I have Barsto barrels in both those calibers and they are a little tight and selective about what will chamber in them.

I strongly urge you to not attempt sizing any loaded ammunition as someone else suggested. While it is highly unlikely that such an effort would ignite the powder charge in the process, if it did, the results could be catastrophic.
Good Luck! :-)

[Lee]

+1 what Cadillo said.
That said, I've "resized" too large loaded .45 and .40 ammo to remove the "bottom bulge". My choice, not yours. Worked great for me. But if one goes off in your press, the least you'll be looking at is a mangled press.......Lee

[David2011]

Hey gang,

I was fortunate enough to win a Magma Case Master Jr. at an IPSC match last fall. It's a pricey piece of hardware that is easy to emulate with any single stage press if you have a Magma Engineering - http://www.magmaengineering.com modified Dillon resizing die in .40 S&W for their Case Master Jr. Before I got the CM Jr. I used a stock Dillon .40 sizing die with the decapper removed and a punch for the Lee boolit sizer to force range brass all the way through the die. Problem was that it took an enormous amount of pressure on the press handle and most of my body weight to get the web through the die. When it did, it jolted my entire body and wasn't much fun after a couple hundred in one day, even using Dillon case lube.

Fast forward to the Magma die. Magma modifies a Dillon carbide die by diamond honing it to remove the taper so it lets the web of the brass pass much more easily- but still "more easily." NOT EASY. Even with the Magma tool it takes significant effort. Anyway, order a Magma Case Master Jr. .40/10mm die and a Lee .401 sizer punch (p/n BS2919) from the respective manufacturers. Put the die in the usual place with a locknut and the punch where the shell holder usually goes in a single stage press and you have a decent volume tool to iron the Glock bulge out. This will require a very solid reloading bench as you will apply significant pressure to the handle of your press. This is probably not something to do with the very light aluminum framed presses. It will require a very heavy C frame or a cast iron O frame press. The modified die restores the brass to its original outside diameter and will even smooth oversized dings and burrs off of the extraction rim.

I've found the best results if I tumble the brass before running it through the die. The die burnishes the brass to a near mirror shine. When I ran the brass through prior to cleaning, it required more effort and it still needed to be cleaned after sizing to remove the black smudges.

David2011

[gray wolf]

I hate to ask such a basic question and seem stupid--BUT do the rounds go plunk into the barrel with the barrel out of the gun? Do they fall into the barrel by there own weight?
or do they get hung up and need to be pushed in??
What type of FTF are you getting?

[KYCaster]

I strongly urge you to not attempt sizing any loaded ammunition as someone else suggested. While it is highly unlikely that such an effort would ignite the powder charge in the process, if it did, the results could be catastrophic.
Good Luck! :-)


Well Cadillo, I gotta disagree with you. Using your logic I'd have to say that putting a cartridge into a bullet seating die would be much worse than sizing a loaded round with a Lee FCD, since the seating die ammounts to the same thing as chambering a round behind a bore obstruction.

Taking this logic to the extreme, we could say that any step in the reloading process after the case is charged with powder presents a potential hazard.

While I don't use the FCD's and fail to understand the need for them, I don't consider their use any more hazardous than bullet seating or crimping. Almost every aspect of the casting, loading and shooting hobbies has the "potential for disaster", but we seem to have a pretty good safety record compared to many other activities.

Everyone can benefit from frequent safety reminders, and I agree some of the things I've read about here make me cringe, but this isn't one of them.

But, that's just my opinion.

Jerry

[Cadillo]

Well Cadillo, I gotta disagree with you. Using your logic I'd have to say that putting a cartridge into a bullet seating die would be much worse than sizing a loaded round with a Lee FCD, since the seating die ammounts to the same thing as chambering a round behind a bore obstruction.

Taking this logic to the extreme, we could say that any step in the reloading process after the case is charged with powder presents a potential hazard.

While I don't use the FCD's and fail to understand the need for them, I don't consider their use any more hazardous than bullet seating or crimping. Almost every aspect of the casting, loading and shooting hobbies has the "potential for disaster", but we seem to have a pretty good safety record compared to many other activities.

Everyone can benefit from frequent safety reminders, and I agree some of the things I've read about here make me cringe, but this isn't one of them.

But, that's just my opinion.

Jerry


Well KYCaster, here is a quote from the written instructions that come with the redding G-Rx Push Thru base Sizing Die:

"WARNING: Do not use to size live ammunition."

Redding issues no such warning regarding the use of their seating dies to seat bullets on top of primed and charged cases.

But, Hey, what does Redding know. We are indeed lucky that we have you to direct us regarding what is and is not dangerous!

But, that's just an opinion that I happen to share with Redding.

And in the end:

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -- PJ O'Rourke :takinWiz:

[StarMetal]

Cadillo,

There's a difference between using a seating die and Redding's push through. That difference is with the bullet seating die the cartridge is held with a shell case holder that has hole through it larger then the diameter of the primer. This equates to nothing ever touches or pushes on the primer while seating a bullet. As for the push through sizer it's much like Lee's push through bullet sizer. Starting to get the picture now? There's a ram that pushes the case through much like the ram Lee uses on it's sizers. Now I don't own the Redding push through sizer so I can't comment on whether they were smart enough to put a recess in it where the primer would be to prevent idiots from getting hurt.

So I tend to agree with Jerry.

Joe

[KYCaster]

OK, we're talking about two very different opperations. A FCD is not a "push through" die. The base of the case is held in a shell holder and does not enter the die.

The push through dies are used exactly as the name implies...the case (web and base included) is pushed completely through the die. The displaced brass has to go somewhere and the most likely place is the primer socket and flash hole. I imagine if there is a primer in the socket there would be pressure applied to it. Common sense tells me that live primers and push through dies are not compatible. I can understand why Redding would recommend against the practice.

I agree that's something that should be avoided, but that's not what was described by the OP and the others who responded.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Now that you've clarified it I understand what you mean.

Jerry

[scrapcan]

KYcaster is right. And to go further the case sizing die is a different animal also. Just removing the decap stem may not be such a safe condition. The sizing die is ment to size smaller than the seated diameter so you have neck tension. I am not really sure what will happen if you squish done the neck or entire case in the sizer die made for the cartridge at hand. I do know it will sure change your cast bullet sizing diameter. I can see where a properly tapered long die could give the correct dimensions.

Taper crimp dies are cheap as is the lee FCD.

[Cadillo]

Cadillo,

There's a difference between using a seating die and Redding's push through. That difference is with the bullet seating die the cartridge is held with a shell case holder that has hole through it larger then the diameter of the primer. This equates to nothing ever touches or pushes on the primer while seating a bullet. As for the push through sizer it's much like Lee's push through bullet sizer. Starting to get the picture now? There's a ram that pushes the case through much like the ram Lee uses on it's sizers. Now I don't own the Redding push through sizer so I can't comment on whether they were smart enough to put a recess in it where the primer would be to prevent idiots from getting hurt.

So I tend to agree with Jerry.

Joe

No kidding! There's also a difference between guys' and gals' plumbing fixtures.
You are indeed adept at explaining the obvious in great and boring detail.

If you are able to grasp anything beyond the scope of your own ego, you should understand that there are some people at this forum who come here seeking knowledge, which if not founded soundly with safety at its core, might lead them to undertake something that might injure themselves or others. I am not one of them, as I have been loading for over forty years, and do not need you explain to me the differences between bullet seating and bullet sizing.

I also know that anything suggested here on this forum could in fact be used by someone with less experience, and that they could hurt themselves if that advice were to be of an unsafe nature. This is a great responsibility and one which you obviously do not grasp.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that some new reloader might see your condoning the sizing of loaded ammunition as sound advice and then based on that follow through with the resizing of loaded ammo, and that they might run into some problem like possibly sticking a loaded round in a sizing die, and could conceivably ingnite the round in their efforts to get it unstuck, where a more experienced person would probably never stick the case in the first place. If you had any meaningful life experience, you would kniow that you always play to the lowest common denominator when giving advice on potentially dangerous subjects, especially when addressing people who are inexperienced as are many here.

Dealing with you, I am reminded of something once said by Samuel Clemens:

"Never attempt to teach a pig to dance...it wastes your time and annoys the pig!" But I had a little free time and you rate a little annoyance.

Starting to get the picture now?
:groner:

[Cadillo]

OK, we're talking about two very different opperations. A FCD is not a "push through" die. The base of the case is held in a shell holder and does not enter the die.

The push through dies are used exactly as the name implies...the case (web and base included) is pushed completely through the die. The displaced brass has to go somewhere and the most likely place is the primer socket and flash hole. I imagine if there is a primer in the socket there would be pressure applied to it. Common sense tells me that live primers and push through dies are not compatible. I can understand why Redding would recommend against the practice.

I agree that's something that should be avoided, but that's not what was described by the OP and the others who responded.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Now that you've clarified it I understand what you mean.

Jerry


It was in fact described. Read Post #5, where it was recommended to resize the loaded rounds in a .308 family sizing die after removal of the decapping stem. Not that I would ever go along with that, but that's what the man wrote.

[Cadillo]

I know that there are a lot of experienced ammo loaders lurking here, but everyone here should be always thinking that there are also many inexperienced loaders here, who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel and then hurt themselves attempting something which an "Old Hand" might accomplish without incident due to his high level of experience and expertise. Giving advice to the uninitiated can be a huge moral and at times even legal responsibilty.

:castmine:

[RollerCam]

"If you had any meaningful life experience..."

Bad day at work today, "Cadillo?"

[KYCaster]

It was in fact described. Read Post #5, where it was recommended to resize the loaded rounds in a .308 family sizing die after removal of the decapping stem. Not that I would ever go along with that, but that's what the man wrote.


Here's the text copied and pasted from post #5:

"Got a .243, .308, or a .358 Winchester rifle sizing die lying around by any chance? Take the capping pin out and run your loaded rounds up into them to size them just enough to easily chamber. The rifle dies are tapered, so you run the .45s up only as far as it takes to get a good fit in your .45 barrel. It usually doesn't take much..."

I don't see any mention of a push through sizing die in that post. What Supermag describes is essentially the same as a taper crimp die...no different. It's a fairly common practice for crimping boolits designed for semi-auto loaded in straight wall revolver cases. (ie. H&G 68 in 45 Colt) A 45-70 sizing die with the de-capping pin removed can be used for a taper crimp die.

Copied from Cadillo's post....."Have you given any thought to the possibility that some new reloader might see your condoning the sizing of loaded ammunition as sound advice and then based on that follow through with the resizing of loaded ammo, and that they might run into some problem"

If a manufacturer, Lee Precision for instance, condons the sizing of loaded ammunition, and actually sells a die designed specifically for that purpose, would you call that irresponsible?

Copied from Cadillo's post....."I know that there are a lot of experienced ammo loaders lurking here, but everyone here should be always thinking that there are also many inexperienced loaders here, who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel and then hurt themselves attempting something which an "Old Hand" might accomplish without incident due to his high level of experience and expertise. Giving advice to the uninitiated can be a huge moral and at times even legal responsibilty."

Maybe you should listen to your own advice.

Copied from Cadillo's response to Starmetal Joe...."If you are able to grasp anything beyond the scope of your own ego, you should understand that there are some people at this forum who come here seeking knowledge, which if not founded soundly with safety at its core, might lead them to undertake something that might injure themselves or others. I am not one of them, as I have been loading for over forty years, and do not need you explain to me the differences between bullet seating and bullet sizing."

For all the years I've been on this site, I always thought Joe was the flakey one....Well Joe, it's time to step down, nobody can stay on top forever.

Jerry

[bohokii]

funny i actually experienced this myself i was using some i think lyman 200 wadcutter bullets sized to 452 and they slightly bulged the cases when seating

i switched to 230 lee tumble lubed .452 seated to the same oal and everything was hunky dory

[Cadillo]

Bad day at work today, "Cadillo?"

I don't have to work any more. I'm retired and when not cutting the grass, I'm either loading or shooting. But, I just don't abide the insolence of some folks (not you) putting words in my mouth due to their lack of reading comprehension skills and or integrity.

[Cadillo]

Here's the text copied and pasted from post #5:

"Got a .243, .308, or a .358 Winchester rifle sizing die lying around by any chance? Take the capping pin out and run your loaded rounds up into them to size them just enough to easily chamber. The rifle dies are tapered, so you run the .45s up only as far as it takes to get a good fit in your .45 barrel. It usually doesn't take much..."

I don't see any mention of a push through sizing die in that post. What Supermag describes is essentially the same as a taper crimp die...no different. It's a fairly common practice for crimping boolits designed for semi-auto loaded in straight wall revolver cases. (ie. H&G 68 in 45 Colt) A 45-70 sizing die with the de-capping pin removed can be used for a taper crimp die.

Copied from Cadillo's post....."Have you given any thought to the possibility that some new reloader might see your condoning the sizing of loaded ammunition as sound advice and then based on that follow through with the resizing of loaded ammo, and that they might run into some problem"

If a manufacturer, Lee Precision for instance, condons the sizing of loaded ammunition, and actually sells a die designed specifically for that purpose, would you call that irresponsible?

Copied from Cadillo's post....."I know that there are a lot of experienced ammo loaders lurking here, but everyone here should be always thinking that there are also many inexperienced loaders here, who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel and then hurt themselves attempting something which an "Old Hand" might accomplish without incident due to his high level of experience and expertise. Giving advice to the uninitiated can be a huge moral and at times even legal responsibilty."

Maybe you should listen to your own advice.

Copied from Cadillo's response to Starmetal Joe...."If you are able to grasp anything beyond the scope of your own ego, you should understand that there are some people at this forum who come here seeking knowledge, which if not founded soundly with safety at its core, might lead them to undertake something that might injure themselves or others. I am not one of them, as I have been loading for over forty years, and do not need you explain to me the differences between bullet seating and bullet sizing."

For all the years I've been on this site, I always thought Joe was the flakey one....Well Joe, it's time to step down, nobody can stay on top forever.

Jerry

OK Jerry, let’s address the points you are making in the order you are presenting them. In your paragraph #1 you cut and pasted the contents of Post #5. It appears that you are somehow referring to my reference to that post in my reply below.

You said:
“Got a .243, .308, or a .358 Winchester rifle sizing die lying around by any chance? Take the capping pin out and run your loaded rounds up into them to size them just enough to easily chamber. The rifle dies are tapered, so you run the .45s up only as far as it takes to get a good fit in your .45 barrel. It usually doesn't take much..."


I said:

“It was in fact described. Read Post #5, where it was recommended to resize the loaded rounds in a .308 family sizing die after removal of the decapping stem. Not that I would ever go along with that, but that's what the man wrote.” My Reply Post #28

It appears that you do not know that .243 Winchester and .358 Winchester were and are based on the .308 Winchester case, and are thus members of the .308 Winchester family as I described them.



In your paragraph #2 you continue to allude to Post #5 addressing the obvious fact that it contains no mention of a push through sizing die. What would make you believe that I somehow implied that it did so? What I said about a push through sizing die is in my Reply, Post #18:

You said:
"I don't see any mention of a push through sizing die in that post. What Supermag describes is essentially the same as a taper crimp die...no different. It's a fairly common practice for crimping boolits designed for semi-auto loaded in straight wall revolver cases. (ie. H&G 68 in 45 Colt) A 45-70 sizing die with the de-capping pin removed can be used for a taper crimp die."


I said: “

“…Redding now makes a .40 S&W push through sizing die. With this die, you push the case in through the bottom and out the top sizing the entire case. Ammo thus sized works perfectly in the Les Baer, and should also work just fine in the .40 cal. Lone Wolf Barrels. Given that Redding does not produce this push through die in .45 ACP, I agree that you are stuck with factory ammo or reloads formed from new brass or brass from ammo fired only in your Lone Wolf barrel.

Maybe with a little prodding, Redding will produce this die in .45 ACP and 9x19. I would by one of each as I have Barsto barrels in both those calibers and they are a little tight and selective about what will chamber in them.

I strongly urge you to not attempt sizing any loaded ammunition as someone else suggested. While it is highly unlikely that such an effort would ignite the powder charge in the process, if it did, the results could be catastrophic.
Good Luck!” My Reply Post #18

My statement merely puts forth the premise that the Redding push through sizing die solves the same type of problem encountered by the OP when occurring in .40 S&W handguns, and that if Redding were to produce such a die in .45 ACP, it might solve this problem. Someone else then addressed the issue of .45 ACP having a case rim or head that is larger in diameter than the webbing making this impractical if not impossible. This idea seems to have some merit as I measured a number of .45 ACP cartridges of various head stamps and learned that this is indeed true with some, but not all brands that I have on hand, and I thus doubt that the push through die will be commercially made in .45ACP.


In paragraphs #3 and #4 you ask whether I would call sizing loaded ammunition irresponsible if Lee actually sells a die specifically made for that purpose.

You said:
"Copied from Cadillo's post....."Have you given any thought to the possibility that some new reloader might see your condoning the sizing of loaded ammunition as sound advice and then based on that follow through with the resizing of loaded ammo, and that they might run into some problem"

"If a manufacturer, Lee Precision for instance, condons the sizing of loaded ammunition, and actually sells a die designed specifically for that purpose, would you call that irresponsible?"


I say:

The answer is, Yes, I would, but to be fair, I went to Lee’s website and searched for any reference to any such die, but could find none. If you know of any such die, can you provide us all with a part number, model number etc? I would really like to read what Lee has to say about such a tool and its intended use. And don’t be bringing up any type of crimp die. It’s not the same thing and if you should know the difference.



Here is what you said in your paragraphs #5 and #6:

“Copied from Cadillo's post....."I know that there are a lot of experienced ammo loaders lurking here, but everyone here should be always thinking that there are also many inexperienced loaders here, who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel and then hurt themselves attempting something which an "Old Hand" might accomplish without incident due to his high level of experience and expertise. Giving advice to the uninitiated can be a huge moral and at times even legal responsibility."

Maybe you should listen to your own advice.”

To this I say:

Whether you mean it or not, what you are conveying here is that my advice to NOT resize loaded ammunition is somehow unsafe and dangerous, and that I would therefore be hypocritical to caution anyone to pay heed to what they might suggest to the less experienced, lest they steer them toward doing something unsafe. To that I say “Brain Damage!”

In paragraphs #7 & #8 you say that some fellow known as Joe was always the flaky one and that I have now surpassed him in that regard.

You said:
Copied from Cadillo's response to Starmetal Joe...."If you are able to grasp anything beyond the scope of your own ego, you should understand that there are some people at this forum who come here seeking knowledge, which if not founded soundly with safety at its core, might lead them to undertake something that might injure themselves or others. I am not one of them, as I have been loading for over forty years, and do not need you explain to me the differences between bullet seating and bullet sizing."

For all the years I've been on this site, I always thought Joe was the flakey one....Well Joe, it's time to step down, nobody can stay on top forever.



To all this I say the following:

Paragraph #1
Here you show that you don’t know much about the proper nomenclature related to ammunition calibers etc. When I referred to the .243 Win, .308 Win, and .358 Win as the .308 Win family of cartridges, you in your ignorance thought that I was wrong and that you would make light of it.


Paragraph #2
Here you demonstrate a woeful lack of reading comprehension skills, and how that deficit throws you into an embarrassing state of confusion. Placing words in the mouths of others who have not said them as you have done here indicates either a lack of intelligence or integrity, or both. In your case it would seem to be the latter.

Paragraph #3 & #4
Well, you have my answer. Let’s see something about this Lee die that you describe as being designed and recommended for the resizing of loaded cartridge cases. Don’t pull a crimp die out of your hat now. It’s not the same thing and anyone who knows anything about ammunition knows that, so get it right. Don't trust me on that. Ask some competent adult, who knows something about handloading.

Paragraphs #5 & #6
I can only say that your ignorance is encyclopedic! Your lack of intelligence and comprehension of the obvious is increasingly more evident as you ejaculate your delusions in pursuit of some self fulfilling euphoria.

Paragraphs #7 & #8
Well, your reaction to this entire thread shows that you get confused and when you are called on it you get PO’d and then just go down in flames from there.


As Robert Ingersol once said:

“Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind. “

In closing I’ll tell you that you should have some competent adult read and explain to you the contents of this entire thread and then stay away from the keyboard. Your inability to comprehend the written word is just causing you to unduly embarrass yourself.

Also, the very idea of you having access to firearms and hazardous materials such as powder and primers is indeed a sobering thought. I recommend that you stay clear of them, sharp objects, power tools, automobiles, heavy equipment etc., and do not self administer any medications, reading and understanding those labels can be a bit confusing at times. It’s your duty to the community.

Good Night and Good Luck! :violin:

[mastercast.com]

Folks there is another easy solution to the "tight chamber" problem with Lone Wolf barrels.

Send them your Lone Wolf barrel along with some "dummy" rounds(no primer or powder)of your reloaded ammunition and they will recut the chamber to function properly with the same. The service is free of charge.....all it will cost you is postage to have it done.

I have had that done to two barrels here and they now function 100% with both reloads and factory ammunition.

[KYCaster]

Oh my...where do I start? First, I want to apologize to the original poster for hi-jacking the thread.


OK Jerry, let’s address the points you are making in the order you are presenting them. In your paragraph #1 you cut and pasted the contents of Post #5. It appears that you are somehow referring to my reference to that post in my reply below. Yes, you're correct.

You said:
“Got a .243, .308, or a .358 Winchester rifle sizing die lying around by any chance? Take the capping pin out and run your loaded rounds up into them to size them just enough to easily chamber. The rifle dies are tapered, so you run the .45s up only as far as it takes to get a good fit in your .45 barrel. It usually doesn't take much..."


I said:

“It was in fact described. Read Post #5, where it was recommended to resize the loaded rounds in a .308 family sizing die after removal of the decapping stem. Not that I would ever go along with that, but that's what the man wrote.” My Reply Post #28 Yes, correct again. He did write "to size them". I suppose if you assume that the advice is aimed at someone with very little reloading experience, it should have been described in more detail and with disclaimers added. To someone who actually understands the procedure it's fairly easy to see that it results in a "taper crimp".

It appears that you do not know that .243 Winchester and .358 Winchester were and are based on the .308 Winchester case, and are thus members of the .308 Winchester family as I described them. That's a leap of logic that's not supported by the text. You'll have to explain how you arrived at that.



In your paragraph #2 you continue to allude to Post #5 addressing the obvious fact that it contains no mention of a push through sizing die. What would make you believe that I somehow implied that it did so? Your mention of a Redding push through sizing die??? What I said about a push through sizing die is in my Reply, Post #18: Yes, that's where I got the idea.

You said:
"I don't see any mention of a push through sizing die in that post. What Supermag describes is essentially the same as a taper crimp die...no different. It's a fairly common practice for crimping boolits designed for semi-auto loaded in straight wall revolver cases. (ie. H&G 68 in 45 Colt) A 45-70 sizing die with the de-capping pin removed can be used for a taper crimp die."


I said: “

“…Redding now makes a .40 S&W push through sizing die. With this die, you push the case in through the bottom and out the top sizing the entire case. Ammo thus sized works perfectly in the Les Baer, and should also work just fine in the .40 cal. Lone Wolf Barrels. Given that Redding does not produce this push through die in .45 ACP, I agree that you are stuck with factory ammo or reloads formed from new brass or brass from ammo fired only in your Lone Wolf barrel.

Maybe with a little prodding, Redding will produce this die in .45 ACP and 9x19. I would by one of each as I have Barsto barrels in both those calibers and they are a little tight and selective about what will chamber in them.

I strongly urge you to not attempt sizing any loaded ammunition as someone else suggested. While it is highly unlikely that such an effort would ignite the powder charge in the process, if it did, the results could be catastrophic.
Good Luck!” My Reply Post #18

My statement merely puts forth the premise that the Redding push through sizing die solves the same type of problem encountered by the OP when occurring in .40 S&W handguns, and that if Redding were to produce such a die in .45 ACP, it might solve this problem. Someone else then addressed the issue of .45 ACP having a case rim or head that is larger in diameter than the webbing making this impractical if not impossible. This idea seems to have some merit as I measured a number of .45 ACP cartridges of various head stamps and learned that this is indeed true with some, but not all brands that I have on hand, and I thus doubt that the push through die will be commercially made in .45ACP.


In paragraphs #3 and #4 you ask whether I would call sizing loaded ammunition irresponsible if Lee actually sells a die specifically made for that purpose.

You said:
"Copied from Cadillo's post....."Have you given any thought to the possibility that some new reloader might see your condoning the sizing of loaded ammunition as sound advice and then based on that follow through with the resizing of loaded ammo, and that they might run into some problem"

"If a manufacturer, Lee Precision for instance, condons the sizing of loaded ammunition, and actually sells a die designed specifically for that purpose, would you call that irresponsible?"


I say:

The answer is, Yes, I would, but to be fair, I went to Lee’s website and searched for any reference to any such die, but could find none. If you know of any such die, can you provide us all with a part number, model number etc? I would really like to read what Lee has to say about such a tool and its intended use. And don’t be bringing up any type of crimp die. It’s not the same thing and if you should know the difference.
Coppied from the Lee Precision website:


"Pistol LFCD:
These dies have a thin shell that slides internally inside the die. That shell gets behind the case and pushes it horizontally into the bullet all the way around the case, making a continuous deep crimp. The bullets do not have to have a crimp groove but with a heavy adjustment will deform the bullets enough to generate one in the bullet.

"The dies include a carbide ring in the bottom that size the loaded ammo before and after the crimp is made, assuring the finished cartridges are to spec for easy loading into the gun's chamber."

Please note that the second paragraph begins, "The dies include a carbide ring in the bottom that size the loaded ammo".

A search turned up a couple of product reviews that clearly describe the sizing that takes place with the FCD. I include this to demonstrate that I'm not the only one who recognized that the FCD does actually size the case in addition to applying a crimp. I can provide the URL's if you're interested.

If Lee chooses to call it a crimp die that sizes rather than a sizing die that crimps, you'll have to take that up with them. If you can show me evidence that it doesn't "size the loaded ammo" please do.



Here is what you said in your paragraphs #5 and #6:

“Copied from Cadillo's post....."I know that there are a lot of experienced ammo loaders lurking here, but everyone here should be always thinking that there are also many inexperienced loaders here, who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel and then hurt themselves attempting something which an "Old Hand" might accomplish without incident due to his high level of experience and expertise. Giving advice to the uninitiated can be a huge moral and at times even legal responsibility."

Maybe you should listen to your own advice.”
The part I take exception to is, ".....who come in search of answers and tips and who might accept something of questionable wisdom said here as gospel...."

To this I say:

Whether you mean it or not, what you are conveying here is that my advice to NOT resize loaded ammunition is somehow unsafe and dangerous, and that I would therefore be hypocritical to caution anyone to pay heed to what they might suggest to the less experienced, lest they steer them toward doing something unsafe. To that I say “Brain Damage!”
If you want to know what I mean just ask me, please don't try to tell me what it is."

In paragraphs #7 & #8 you say that some fellow known as Joe was always the flaky one and that I have now surpassed him in that regard.

You said:
Copied from Cadillo's response to Starmetal Joe...."If you are able to grasp anything beyond the scope of your own ego, you should understand that there are some people at this forum who come here seeking knowledge, which if not founded soundly with safety at its core, might lead them to undertake something that might injure themselves or others. I am not one of them, as I have been loading for over forty years, and do not need you explain to me the differences between bullet seating and bullet sizing."

For all the years I've been on this site, I always thought Joe was the flakey one....Well Joe, it's time to step down, nobody can stay on top forever.
Just my (feeble) attempt at humor. In hindsight I suppose I should have considered the length of time you've been a member here since you're not likely to have any knowledge of Joe's history here or of any previous interaction I've had with Joe. It was an inside joke that would be understood by a handful of old timers here and considered in that context, it may have been out of place. I apologize for that. I believe there are very few situations where you can't find the oppertunity for a little humor, so if you can't take a joke, you're talking to the wrong guy.



To all this I say the following:

Paragraph #1
Here you show that you don’t know much about the proper nomenclature related to ammunition calibers etc. When I referred to the .243 Win, .308 Win, and .358 Win as the .308 Win family of cartridges, you in your ignorance thought that I was wrong and that you would make light of it.


Paragraph #2
Here you demonstrate a woeful lack of reading comprehension skills, and how that deficit throws you into an embarrassing state of confusion. Placing words in the mouths of others who have not said them as you have done here indicates either a lack of intelligence or integrity, or both. In your case it would seem to be the latter.

Paragraph #3 & #4
Well, you have my answer. Let’s see something about this Lee die that you describe as being designed and recommended for the resizing of loaded cartridge cases. Don’t pull a crimp die out of your hat now. It’s not the same thing and anyone who knows anything about ammunition knows that, so get it right. Don't trust me on that. Ask some competent adult, who knows something about handloading.

Paragraphs #5 & #6
I can only say that your ignorance is encyclopedic! Your lack of intelligence and comprehension of the obvious is increasingly more evident as you ejaculate your delusions in pursuit of some self fulfilling euphoria.

Paragraphs #7 & #8
Well, your reaction to this entire thread shows that you get confused and when you are called on it you get PO’d and then just go down in flames from there.


As Robert Ingersol once said:

“Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind. “

In closing I’ll tell you that you should have some competent adult read and explain to you the contents of this entire thread and then stay away from the keyboard. Your inability to comprehend the written word is just causing you to unduly embarrass yourself.

Also, the very idea of you having access to firearms and hazardous materials such as powder and primers is indeed a sobering thought. I recommend that you stay clear of them, sharp objects, power tools, automobiles, heavy equipment etc., and do not self administer any medications, reading and understanding those labels can be a bit confusing at times. It’s your duty to the community.

Good Night and Good Luck! :violin:

At no time have I questioned your knowledge, experience, abilities, education, intelligence or any other personal traits you may or may not possess. It would be nice if you would extend the same courtesy to me and others here who you have insulted.

If there is anything in any of my posts to this thread that can be considered "angry" please point them out to me. There are very few people who have ever seen me exhibit angry behavior, and I know for a fact that you're not one of them.

Resorting to personal attacks and nit-picking semantics are common debate tactics which do nothing but detract from the debate and alienate any observers. It's demeaning to both participants.

I'll leave you with a quote. I can't cite an author, I have no idea who first said it.....

"Never argue with an idiot, he'll just drag you down to his level and beat with experience."

Jerry

BTW....in case you didn't recognize it, that's another joke.

[Cadillo]

Oh my...where do I start? First, I want to apologize to the original poster for hi-jacking the thread.




..........I'll leave you with a quote. I can't cite an author, I have no idea who first said it.....

"Never argue with an idiot, he'll just drag you down to his level and beat with experience."

Jerry

BTW....in case you didn't recognize it, that's another joke.

I'm astonished that you cannot name the author. He surely knows who you are.

What did I tell you about you and keyboards? You can't even type it without leaving out complete words, whose absence kill the effect.

Now how about that "Loaded Ammo Sizing Die" you were so eager to crow about?

"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." Winston Churchill

Now go have a glass of warm milk and hit the rack. :violin:

[KYCaster]

Thanks for the kind words Cadillo. Good night.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Jerry

[JesseCJC]

So, back to the topic, another plus 1 for the lee FCD. With the unsupported chamber in the glocks, it will bulge the base of the cases. I had some that were on the second fire through my glock 21 that were so bad I could only get half the loaded round into the case gauge and the Lee FCD fixed all of my issues. My only complaint is that it's a bit sticky since it sizes on both the down and upstroke but for what it does, I can't complain too much. Well worth the 15 bucks