Dirty Powders

[lead_her_fly]

Well, don't you get tired hearing that statement? "Which powders are dirty?" or "What powder is cleaner than Unique or Bullseye?" or "I shot 50 rounds and now I have to clean my pistol, can you help me?"

[smilie=b:

Drives me absolutely NUTS!

So, today I thought I would load some of those dirty lead bullets with Bullseye and head to the range. 3.0gr under my own home-cast H&G #290BB with my own homemade lube along with my daughter's M14 Smith & Wesson with a 6" barrel.

Here are some pictures of my escapades:

When I got home, here is what the firearm looked like:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/dirtycylinderside1.jpg

Then I went to the cleaning supply gettin' place and got out my homemade ED's Red and put some on a rag and gave her a quick once over:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/homemadeEdsred.jpg

Wiped 'er down in about 2 minutes:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/cleanwithjustragside1.jpg

(Not perfect but acceptable for a regularly used shooting iron!)

Couple more minutes with an old tooth brush:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/cleanwithbrushside1.jpg

First patch:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/firstpatch.jpg

(Notice that there is no lead.)

Second patch:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/secondpatchclose.jpg

Bore:
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/cleanbore3.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/Sackettwannabe/Cleaning%20M14/cleanbore4.jpg

It would have taken me a total of about 5 minutes to clean up had I not taken the pictures.

Clean enough to stand a military inspection? NO! Clean enough to ensure function for the next time out? OH YEAH!



Hope this helps.

[35remington]

Hear, hear, and +1.

Most "dirty burning powder" comments I see are about powders that really aren't all that dirty. Which makes me wonder if some wrap lace doilies around their guns. I just don't see all that much dirt - from the powder. It's the lube, far more so than the powder, and that can be minimal as well, given good selection.

Every time I hear those bitches about "dirty powders", I think of Phil Hartman's character on the old Saturday Night Live shows, the Anal Retentive Chef.

How many shots of your load fired through that wheelie?

[tactikel]

Shot over 10k rounds with Bullseye. I clean all my firearms thoroughly every time I get back from the range. Superb accuracy, tons of loading data, cheap, and available everywhere! "My gun is dirty"- Boo Freakin Hoo :mrgreen:

[runfiverun]

won't you get lead in your bbl........
don't you get copper in yours?
and the answer to the first q is no.

[wallenba]

Some ball type powders I have used like Winchester 296 and HP-38 leave little residue, but usually require magnum primers, especially if you are outdoors in very cold weather. HP-38 is more versatile than 296, or at least I see more data in the books. Tell them to try the powder manufacturers website for their data.

[Dennis Eugene]

shucks if I wasn't gettin' my guns dirty excatly what good would they be? Dennis Eugene

[Shiloh]

Nice Photo Essay!!

Yep, Bullseye is dirty especially when coupled with Liquid Alox. But I clean it up with the same stuff. Ed's Red Homebrew!!

Cheap, accurate, timeless. Been around for ever.

Shiloh

[lead_her_fly]

Hear, hear, and +1.

How many shots of your load fired through that wheelie?

100. There was someone that was complaining what their firearm looked like after 50 so I thought I would double the damage and show how easy it cleaned off. Thanks for the kind words.

[cajun shooter]

You think you have it bad; try being a shooter of the "DARK SIDE" Man I would not put that stuff in my gun, No Chance. This will come from some one who has Colt SAA or a Schofield or Winney 73. All of these guns were fired with BP in the years they were made. If BP is so bad why don't we have recorded history that says; we had a hard time firing our rifles the next day as they were already starting to rust. No such thing ever happened!!!

[303Guy]

You guys are making me feel embarrassed!
44 mag - fire it - dip bronze bore brush in Hoppe's No9 - down bore - through each chamber - spray with silicone spray lube on the ouside - put back into leather holster and put away! She never rusted nor had any leading of the bore. The grease build up can only get so thick before it gets blown away.[smilie=1:

Dirty powder? No idea. As long as she was greasy, all was good!:Fire:

(PS the leather was properly treated and I did re-oil her from time to time).

[jonk]

+1 on the black powder. You can make cleanup as hard or easy as you want.

Personally I just scrub it with a toothbrush and soapy water, a few patches with soapy water in the bore, give a blast of compressed air, spray it down with WD40 (for water dispalacement is the one thing it IS good for) wipe off the excess and put an oily patch through the bore. Done. For handguns. For rifles it is a bit more detailed especially around the lock area but the principle is the same.

As to dirty smokeless powders- if you're gonna clean it anyhow, why do you care if it is a little dirtier or not? Always stumped me.

[686]

for those light 38 spl. target loads try. WST 2.8 gr. 148 hb wc or 158 gr swc. same load. it shoots very good and is clean.

[Sensai]

If it don't get dirty enough, how do you know where you've cleaned??

[lead_her_fly]

for those light 38 spl. target loads try. WST 2.8 gr. 148 hb wc or 158 gr swc. same load. it shoots very good and is clean.

See, that's just the point. I DON'T CARE HOW DIRTY IT GETS! I'M GONNA CLEAN IT ANYWAY!

[inuhbad]

What is this Eds Red Homebrew stuff?

I'll have to search around to see how to make it or something... I usually use Hoppes #9, but it's costly sometimes.

In the rare event I do get a little leading, I just soak the barrel for a few minutes in acetone, then run a couple patches thru her, and the leading comes right out slicker than snot!

[EMC45]

My experience with Alliant powders has led me to believe they are smoky, but not all that dirty. I think my past issues have been a result of my home made Moly lube and Liquid Alox. 3gr. Bullseye under a Lee RNFP 158gr. and you are in business!

[markinalpine]

What is this Eds Red Homebrew stuff?

via the LASC (Los Angeles Sillouette Club) Web-site: http://www.lasc.us/EdsRedBoreCleaner.htm

Original Formula and variations. Good Stuff

Mark :coffee:

[inuhbad]

As for smokey / dirty powders are concerned... I've pretty much surmised that it's a matter of humidity & moisture content, I think.

I noticed SOME of my handloads shoot perfectly clean, very little smoke or carbon! Some of my handloads blow so much 'smoke' that my friends sometimes joke that I'm shooting a 'blackpowder' gun at the indoor range!

I wanted to figure out what was doing this, so I played around a bit. I had suspicions, but I had to experiment first. I had a few new, unopened 1# jars of Hodgdon's Universal, and one that was opened ~6 months prior...

I found that any loads from the jar that was opened (seal broken & opened for the first time) 6 months earlier were more smokey than bullets loaded from a FRESHLY opened powder jar in the Minnesota summer day with fair humidity. Both smoked, but the fresh-powder smoked less (even though they were both loaded in the same humidity)...

Ammo that was loaded in the Minnesota WINTER time, with zero humidity, and from a FRESH jar of powder has almost no smoke at all! Ammo loaded in the winter time from a 6-month opened jar was still smokey, but not AS smokey as ammo loaded in the summer humidity...

That's left me to believe the following:
ZERO Humidity (Winter), with FRESHLY OPENED powder jar --> Extremely little smoke.
ZERO Humidity (Winter), with 6-month powder jar --> A bit more smokey, but not bad.
Greater Humidity (Summer), with FRESHLY OPENED powder jar --> Even MORE smokey.
Greater Humidity (Summer), with 6-month powder jar --> LOTS of smoke!!!

Based on this, I tried to do most of my ammo loading in the winter months, and store it up for when spring / summer rolls around.

[303Guy]

... soak the barrel for a few minutes in acetone, then run a couple patches thru her, and the leading comes right out ...???!!! Does that work on copper fouling too? does it work with all lubes ie wax type lubes?

inuhbad
That is a very interesting test you did! Just one question - why would you want the powder to not smoke?


... why don't we have recorded history that says; we had a hard time firing our rifles the next day as they were already starting to rust ...There is a recorded event in which the bores of the BP guns were so badly fouled that the recoil was pounding the soldiers. Those were 577/450 Martini Henry's. Didn't stop them from winning the battle though. (Actually, holding off the attackers).

[JDL]

Mine looked very similar last Sunday after firing 75 rounds loaded with 3.5 grains B'eye and some hard lubed 150 grain boolits a friend gave me. I gave it a similar cleaning with Ed's and also didn't find any lead in the bore but, some tiny flakes were in the cylinder. Two patches cleaned bore, 2 for the cylinder, wiped down the outside, and she's ready to go again.
JDL

[lead_her_fly]

I wouldn't recommend putting acetone anywhere near a plastic gun or something with a nice finish. Rubber grips, nice wood ones too might be affected by it.

JDL, good deal!

I am going to post a link in another thread for homemade firearms stuff.

Look for it!

[briang]

inuhbad, were all those cans from the same lot? If not your test is worthless as it could just be variations from lot to lot.

[mroliver77]

I like Red Dot for some peestol loads. It used to be really cheap and cheap is my middle name. RD makes for some smoky guns. Between that and my alox /wax lube I got ribbed alot one day.;) I am burning some tite wad powder right now (it was cheap!) and it is sooty in the .38. Enough that my hands get black after a few dozen rounds. I wipe down with Eds Red and leave the barrel alone. I hate sticking rods down my barrel especially if they dont need it. If gun will be put away a short whilE I wet with EDs Red and use 1 patch before next firing. Using FWFL with carnuba and Eds Red my barrels sparkle.
j

[mroliver77]

I like Red Dot for some peestol loads. It used to be really cheap and cheap is my middle name. RD makes for some smoky guns. Between that and my alox /wax lube I got ribbed alot one day.;) I am burning some tite wad powder right now (it was cheap!) and it is sooty in the .38. Enough that my hands get black after a few dozen rounds. I wipe down with Eds Red and leave the barrel alone. I hate sticking rods down my barrel especially if they dont need it. If gun will be put away a short whilE I wet with EDs Red and use 1 patch before next firing. Using FWFL with carnuba and Eds Red my barrels sparkle.
j

[inuhbad]

inuhbad, were all those cans from the same lot? If not your test is worthless as it could just be variations from lot to lot.

I think the complete lack of any good scientific controls makes my 'tests' rather worthless altogether. I'd say they were more like 'Observations' than anything. Usually I'm much more methodical and systematic when I do any REAL testing... This was just incredibly informal.

After discussing those same observations over a beer with a friend that works for an ammo manufacturer, I was informed that Factory mfgr's also have strict climate control inside their ammo plants for similar reasons though.

I still shoot hodgdon's universal regardless of any 'smoke' or 'dirt' because I like the powder, I like the burn rate, I like the volume it fills, and it's both cheap & versatile in the many calibers that can be safely loaded with it. I'm not allergic to cleaning my guns. :)

[AZ-Stew]

Most of what I shoot in my .41 Magnum is a 210-220 gr Keith bullet (depending on alloy) lubed with 50-50 Alox-beeswax over IMR 7625 (gray can) powder at about 900 fps. It smokes up the gun about like lead her fly's .38. I'm convinced most of it is soot from the lube burning. It's pretty smoky. But it's easy to clean up and most of the cases fall out of the cylinder. Those that don't are stuck in with lube that has blown back between the case and the chamber wall. They extract with almost no effort as soon as the thin film of wax holding them in is broken when the extractor rod is pushed.

Again, any good bore solvent is all it takes to clean the gun. A few minutes in the tumbler cleans the cases.

Is it a "dirty" load? I think any load made with cast boolits using 50-50 as a lube is dirty, but on the other hand, the wax keeps the gun from rusting.

2400 powder leaves unburnt kernels of powder in the bore of my .44 Magnums when shooting the classic Keith load, but it shoots accurately and causes no other problems.

Shoot the gun.

Clean the gun.

Repeat.

It's all the same to me.

Regards,

Stew

[Paul]

Hey guys, I was reading this post. I was wondering if I could put a little Hickory Saw Dust over my load of Bulleye in the 38 and come up with a very good smelling smoking round... Might make the other shooters hungry for some BB-Q???? Has anyone tried this? I have been reloading since 1972...

[Leadforbrains]

Hey guys, I was reading this post. I was wondering if I could put a little Hickory Saw Dust over my load of Bulleye in the 38 and come up with a very good smelling smoking round... Might make the other shooters hungry for some BB-Q???? Has anyone tried this? I have been reloading since 1972...

Hickory sawdust filler and you could add some bacon grease to your bullet lube.
Barbecue while your shooting.

[UncleClark]

Anybody complains about cleaning their firearm, I just tell 'em to suck it up, cupcake!

[briang]

Hey guys, I was reading this post. I was wondering if I could put a little Hickory Saw Dust over my load of Bulleye in the 38 and come up with a very good smelling smoking round... Might make the other shooters hungry for some BB-Q???? Has anyone tried this? I have been reloading since 1972...

I'm not sure it would even burn.

[MT Gianni]

Brings to mind the bumper sticker "the little voices told me to stay home and clean my guns today". For those in the know it doesn't take long.