Raising BHN from 6

[Marlin Man]

Hello, new guy here. I picked up 100lbs of lead today that tested out at 6.4 BHN. I would like to use this lead in my .44 and .45/70 molds. I plan on keeping both loads in the 1400 to 1800 FPS. Would a 50/50 mix of this lead with linotype suffice? Any other alternatives would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Marlin Man

[snaggdit]

1800fps seems pretty fast for those calibers with cast. Don't load them personally, though. Yeah, 50/50 with Lino should be fine for those loads. Is your 44 mold gas checked? If so, you could get by with 50/50 yours/WW IMO.

[Marlin Man]

Yep, the .44 mold is gas checked.

Thanks,
Marlin Man

[JIMinPHX]

A gas checked .44 mag with a stiff load of H-110 under it will get you in the neighborhood of that velocity from a rifle. Get some book data to work from & work the load up carefully.

[Marlin Man]

Thanks for the replies. I am relatively new to casting. I think I have spent more time reading books lately on it, than anything else. I just can't come to a conclusion on too soft of lead, too hard, mix this, mix that, etc...So today I just said forget it and got my lead to start with. I like to keep it simple across my hunting guns, with not too many different powders as I find it easier. I am hoping to do the same with my lead mixes that will work well in both calibers.

Thanks,
Marlin Man

[snaggdit]

Be sure you use a good lube. At those speeds it will need it. Cleaning out leading is not fun. With a gas check you really don't need to worry about too soft below 2000fps. Obviously don't want to go pure (6bhn) but lino is expensive compared to WW. Unless you have a cheap source, then by all means go with the lino! the WW alloy should get you 10bhn. You can always water drop the WW alloy for 16-20bhn.

Also, cast a few with the pure you have and slug your barrels FIRST! Find out what size boolits you will need. Properly sized (.001 to .002 over bore) will save you headaches later.

[leadman]

You may want to mix a small batch of 75% your lead to 25% lino. Cast some boolits and drop them from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of water. They will be harder than air cooled right away, with additional hardness over about a weeks time. You could air cool the boolits, then heat treat them for an even harder boolit.
If you can get around 17BHN this should be good for the uses you stated. If not then you can go heavier on the lino. I've found boolits with a high lino content tend to be brittle and probably not the best hunting boolits.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If you want some easy reading information , Google the Lasc site, there is a lot of good info on alloys there. For what you are doing 50/50 Pure / WW will work , 50/50 lead / Linotype works. If you want to use Lino , you can probably go 75 lead 25 lino and have a harder boolit than you need. 5% antimony , 5% Tin and 90% lead gives you Lyman #2, if this isn't hard enough for you , water drop them and you can go to +2000fps . If you need alloy, check out the Rotometals site at the top of the page.

[armyrat1970]

Here's a link to the Lasc site:
http://www.lasc.us/

[rhead]

I shot 50/50 lead and wheel weights in my 45 70. My velocity is slower than your target (around 1450 to 1500) I have no sign of leading and could have gone faster but my shoulder had quit having fun. Then I started paper patching pure lead for it. I have used the same alloy in my 44 mag but have never tried pushing it to 1800.
I havent ever had anything catch either boolit and throw it bach at me.

[Bret4207]

Hello, new guy here. I picked up 100lbs of lead today that tested out at 6.4 BHN. I would like to use this lead in my .44 and .45/70 molds. I plan on keeping both loads in the 1400 to 1800 FPS. Would a 50/50 mix of this lead with linotype suffice? Any other alternatives would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Marlin Man

First question- did you test the ingots or did you melt some and then test right off the bat? If it's got any tin/antimony in it, it will take up to 2-3 weeks to harden. So if you melted some up and then tested you're reading may well be off. If you tested the raw product then what you have is close to straight lead. You might be interested in trading some for WW alloy which has the tin, antimony and trace elements to harden better.

Rather than aim for a specific speed, see what your guns like. A deer won't know the difference between a boolit at 1800 fps and one at 1735 fps, but to your gun might be all the difference in the world.

[cajun shooter]

All the above info is correct andb the site of LASC is filled with tons of info. Read everything you can by Glenn Fryxell. You might want to buy thye Lyman Cast Bullet book to fall back on for reference.

[pdawg_shooter]

Your 6.4 BHN will work fine, IF, you paper patch. That alloy will work to around 2200fps wit great performance on game.

[Marlin Man]

Thanks guys, good info in here!


First question- did you test the ingots or did you melt some and then test right off the bat?

The Ingots were tested by a local caster I got them from. He is into pistol shooting, but not much into rifles.

[Bret4207]

Thanks guys, good info in here!



The Ingots were tested by a local caster I got them from. He is into pistol shooting, but not much into rifles.

How long had they been cast? As long as it's more than a couple weeks you should have a fairly accurate reading.

[Ricochet]

You may find that that metal will make substantially harder boolits with oven heat treating, quenching and aging for a week or two. It doesn't just work with wheelweights.

[cbrick]

I doubt you'll get much if any heat treating benefit from a 6 BHN alloy. Lead alloy cannot heat treat harden (quenching or oven HT) without antimony and at 6 BHN there can’t be much if any antimony in it. Sounds more like pure lead with a trace of tin. If so it’s good stuff for lower velocity but it won’t heat treat.

I use 6 BHN stick-on WW in 800-900 fps 45 ACP HP’s for beautiful mushrooms without breaking apart but I don’t think I would try it much past about 1000-1050 fps. I mix 6 BHN stick-on (SWW) and 11-12 BHN clip-on weights (CWW) 50/50 for 8-9 BHN alloy for 900-950+ fps 45 ACP’s.

For rifle and high pressure/velocity handgun @ +- 2000 fps I use clip-on WW plus tin without any HT at 11-12 BHN, for my high pressure/velocity revolver long range competition bullets I oven HT CWW +tin to 18 BHN.

For your goal of 1400-1800 fps in a 44 rifle and the 45-70 straight CWW without HT should work well considering good bores and proper sizing for each bore.

If you have access to lino mixing it 50/50 with your 6 BHN alloy should also work well for your goals without HT. Mixing your alloy with clip-on weights should give you much the same as my 50/50 CWW & SWW at about 9 BHN.

Also, cajun shooter, armyrat1970 and Slow Elk 45/70 . . . thanks for the compliments on the web site. :)

Rick

[tactikel]

Sorry for the noob question, but are the boolits aged for a few weeks unsized, unlubed (i.e. is it oxygen that coats the boolit with lead oxide to harden them?). How much hardness is gained?

[snaggdit]

Sorry for the noob question, but are the boolits aged for a few weeks unsized, unlubed (i.e. is it oxygen that coats the boolit with lead oxide to harden them?). How much hardness is gained?

No, if you have water dropped or heat treated, you will want to size soon, like within a day. You can lube anytime, but most do it when sizing. The boolit will achieve peak hardness just sitting around after a few weeks. If you wait to size, you will be deforming the boolit after it has hardened and loose some of the hardness. If you just air cool, do anything whenever.

It is not lead oxide that hardens the boolits, so oxygen has nothing to do with it. As for hardness gained, it depends on: alloy, air cooled, water dropped, heat treated. As a rule, expect a 10-30% increase in hardness after a couple weeks.

[MtGun44]

Nothing to do with lead oxide to harden. The hardening is due to antimony and arsenic, altho tin does a
small amount of hardening. The few weeks is due to the nature of lead alloys, the precipitation
hardening process takes some time to happen. Some aluminum alloys precipitation harden,
also, taking time to get hard after the heat treat.

Lead also softens with time, since room temp is warm enough to "temper" the metal alloy. It
takes years to soften, and usually does not fully go away.

Bill

[Ricochet]

Lead-tin alloys don't get harder from quenching and aging, but my point is that you don't know what you have. I have a bunch of nondescript soft scrap lead that's easily dentable with a thumbnail, and it does harden significantly. Gets about as hard as aircooled wheelweights. Never know till you try.