is my Lyman 429421 broken?? or is it the alloy

[10mmShooter]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks to everyone's info here my first casting session was a great sucess for the most part. Everything went well but my two molds seem to be throwing slightly undersized bullets. I'm hoping its maybe my alloy can anyone offer suggestions, below are the details.

I have two new molds the 4 cav layman 429421(for my Anaconda) and a 6 cav Lee 401-175-TC(for my 1006/Delta/610).

The Lee is throwing bullits at an average weight of 178.2(300 rds weighed) and 60% are measuring .4005 and 40% are measuring .4010.

Pretty much the same with #429421 its throwing average weights of 252.1(200 rds weighed) and 60% are measuring .4285-.4290 and 40% are measuring .4300. I measured using my micrometer and digital caliper both good to +/- .0001

My sizing dies are .401 and .430 which is what I prefer for my guns?? Im thinking should I order a 5 or 10 lbs of actuall bullet alloy(Lyman #2) from Roto to see how it casts?? Maybe the alloy I have is mostly lead and low in Sn and Sb??

Any suggestions to grow my bullets????:veryconfu

The lead I was using was from my brother which was supposed to mostly wheel weights, that were in ingots, there was very very little dross in the pot when I was casting, my temps measured with thermometer were between 725-750F. I had no fill issues all molds filled nicely after coming up to temp, I had no issues with sticky bullets at all. I used a very slight amout of release agent on the mold faces. My bullets had no whiskers. Visual inspection they look very nice just between shiny and frosty. Also I queched in 4 inches of water after dropping them from the molds. Measurements were taken several hours later. I'll attach a couple of pictures

[runfiverun]

try re-measuring them after about a week and see if they have gotten any larger.
often they will grow a bit after water dropping.
if not then a lighter/harder alloy will make a larger boolit,as will "Beagling"
or by lapping out your cavities.

[Blammer]

I'd clean your moulds completely of the release agent and try them again.

The release agent may be causing the undersized bullets.

Just my guess.

[Shuz]

10mmShooter--Your boolits look good!You're almost "there". As the others have suggested, wait about a week and see if they grow....but in the meantime, I'd clean the mould release out and Beagle the 429421 mould. I suspect you could do the same with the Lee mould, but I've not had much luck with their 6 cavity products, but then perhaps I'm too "ham handed" to work with aluminum moulds!

[Larry Gibson]

Clean out the release agent and open the spout up for a quicker pour. Add 2% tin to the WW alloy. The fact that the bullets are undersize in both moulds indicates it is your casting technique (spout not open enough), the alloy (softer alloys with minimal tin always give smaller bullets) or the release agent (release agent in mould cavity always gives smaller bullets also).

Larry Gibson

[10mmShooter]

thanks gentlemen, I'll start with the cleaning of the molds, I wont have a chance to cast some more test bullets until next weekend, and I'll remeasure the first run then as well.

thanks again for everyones suggestions:grin:

[HeavyMetal]

+1 on clean the mold and add tin as well as making sure your close to the spout if your using a bottom pour pot.

750 should get you all you need in the way of heat but each mold will have it's preference.

You might dip the mold before you start casting as well. My experience with Lyman 4 bangers is it takes a little while to get them to stablize at a casting temp but once you get there they stay there!

I will also suggest you turn that Lyman mold around on the handles, if you can, so that the sprue plate points at you not away from you. I've found this less fatiging to use.

[243winxb]

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/bulletweights.html Bullet Sizes and Weights-
How to Vary Them

The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead).

You should be aware that bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

In order to provide a hard bullet, and due to the availability of high antimony content alloys such as scrap wheel weights and type metal, many casters are using high antimony content alloys. SAECO moulds work well with these high antimony content leads, but you should be aware of the variations they may produce.

Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast from wheel weights and linotype.

Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing. Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the alloy’s antimony content.

The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.




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[Slow Elk 45/70]

10mmShooter, you gave a lot of information and that is good, but you left out the alloy you are casting with....this can vary the size of your boolit as cast , you might consider this along with all of the other good info you have.

[10mmShooter]

thanks for the info guys, I'm gonna re-smelt my 55 lbs of lead and add a touch of tin(2lbs), to see if I can get a slightly larger as cast diameter. Also as suggested I'll clean my molds.

[Leftoverdj]

10mm, it's antimony you may need, not tin. Half a pound of tin might improve fillout, but you are not likely to need more than that. The release agent is almost certainly the main cause of your problem.

[cajun shooter]

I will also agree with Heavy Metal on turning the mold around with the sprue plate facing you

[anachronism]

I suspect your moulds aren't getting hot enough for consistent diameters. Pre-heat the hell out of them, maybe even only cast with one at a time to raise your mould temps. A 4 cavity Lyman mould can be a really effective heat sink. To test this: measure your bullets after about 5 casts, then at 20 casts, then at 30 or so. Just segregate the bullets from your main pile & check them after they cool. It wouldn't hurt to know which bullets came from which cavity. This could tell you if you have any undersized cavities.

[Echo]

+1 for leftoverdj - tin doesn't add much hardness to the alloy, but does decrease the surface tension of the alloy, so the boolits have sharp corners where the mold has sharp corners. Two pound of tin to 55 pounds of WW's is too much - 1/2 to 1 pound is plenty. I would lean toward 1 pound - I would rather have a little too much than not quite enough.

[10mmShooter]

Thanks everyone for the pointers, today I remelted and returned my first run of bullets to ignot form they were a little undersized for my needs. I added 2 lbs of tin and 8 lbs of (70/30 Pb/Sb alloy) this will bring my tin and atimony levels up to at least 2-3% each.

While I was re-smeltling my 70 lb run, of course I had to get out the molds and laddle some boolits to check if they were in spec. :mrgreen::mrgreen: and they were, my 429421 with this alloy is throwing 244.6 avg weight at .4300-.4315 (i size to .430)which is right where I need it and in spec according to Lyman's tables. Also the Lee 401-175-swc is throwing avg weight of 172.8 and .4020-.4030. (i size to .401)

This is awesome, I'm happy to see with the right alloy my molds are working great.

Tomorrow I'm gonna cast up a 1000 or so.

Heres a pic of my first 35 lbs in the pot prior "ignotting"(is that a word??)

[SciFiJim]

Great Job, as you are finding out, this is as much science as it is art. Which can sometimes leave you scratching your head and wondering what happened.