44 Mag and WC820 problems

[MT Gianni]

At the NCBS I had a cartridge fail to fire locking up my pistol. It was 429421 over 19.7 gr of WC820 and a Win LP primer. The cartridge popped, the primer fired and the powder did not fire. The bullet stuck in the forcing cone tying up the cylinder. I drove it back into the case. The powder seems OK to look at, I will try to get some pics up tomorrow. None of the other 100+ cartridges loaded at the same time failed to fire, all had the same crimp. I am going to a Magnum primer with this load, working up again of course. Temps were in the low 80's and I use this below freezing. Any thoughts?
This is also posted in Surplus Powder data. Thanks, Gianni.

[anachronism]

Maybe a piece of tumbling media in the flash hole? I use the same powder, with essentially the same bullet, & WWLPs. Mine always gone off. So far. Did the powder try to burn, or is it just scorched?

[felix]

Old or new primers? It would be nice to compare to the earlier batches of primers with a chrono. I am leary about the new stuff because of the demand being so high. ... felix

[mroliver77]

I have been having problems with one jug of 820 in the 45 colt. WLP work but a couple weird rounds. I went to Wolf LP and had horrible misfires. Tried the Wolfe Mag pistol with a little better performance. CCI LP mag worked like a charm. First time I have had problems with this powder.
Jay

[Leftoverdj]

I've never had a misfire with WC 820. I suspect a different problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive gotten some strange reading on the chrono using it with standard primers. It is a powder that is hard to light off. Probably even harder then 110. It needs to be loaded at full power and used with a mag primer. I use nothing but cci 350s with it. Your charge should be high enough but is right on the border. It is NOT a powder that should be downloaded. Used with stout loads and a mag primer its probably the most accurate magnum powder ive found but it can be a finiky one.

[44man]

Lloyd has the answer. Use more powder.

[lavenatti]

I had a similiar problem with wc 820 in a 357 mag. I switched to mag primers and a heavier crimp on the advice of the people on this forum and the problem went away.

[Junior1942]

The exact same thing happened to me. Use (1) more powder; (2) mag primers; and (3) a heavier crimp. All of which the other guys said.

[mike in co]

i shoot wc820 in medium 44 rem mag loads...no issues.....16 gr with a 290 gr boolit.
i use cci 300's no issues( see the pic in the 2009 shoot).
i do use cci 350's in my 20" marlin....cause it shot better that way( and the same reason the std 300 is used in the super red hawk..it shot better with std)

mike in co

[Down South]

I don't rule out the piece of media stuck in the flash hole but possibly more powder and defiantly LPM primers.

[Shuz]

For many years now I've used different lots of WC 820 and always a CCI-350 mag primer and cast boolits from 250 to 300g. Nary a problem and that is thousands of rounds all .44 mag. My favorite load is 17g and 429421. Velocity is 1150fps and that's enuf for me. Lately I've been experimenting with a scalped version of 429649 that weighs 297g and an NEI mould made for SSK, that is a PB with a huge grease groove that also weighs 297g. My loads for these has been 16g of WC 820. They all went bang, but I've not had the chrono set up for a while, but that will change soon. I rather suspect crud in the flash hole caused your problem, as I understand the Winchester WLP is designed to ignite WW-296.

[454PB]

I had the same problem using WC820 in my .454 Casull. In my case, the boolit lodged halfway down the barrel. When I brought the gun home and drove the boolit out, I found a ball of compressed powder behind the boolit. As has already been stated, higher pressure, tight case to boolit fit, and magnum primers is the cure.


Here's the post and pictures:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20838

[Maven]

Don't know if this will help or not, but I've been using Shuz's load of 17gr. WC 820 with LP mag. primers and Ly. #429421 as recently as yesterday and never had so much as a hint of trouble with it. In my .357mag., I use 11grs. with either the heavier Lyman Keith (the mold no. escapes me right now, #358429?) or the even heavier LBT gas checked CB with SP mag. primers and have had no problems there either. All loads were roll crimped. No, I don't think you need more powder.

[BD]

I think we need to remember that's there's a pretty fair variation amoung the lot's of WC 820 out there. All the way from H110 equivalent to Blue Dot equivalent. My lot is of the earlier H110 type, and I've used it in reduced rifle loads with no problems. However, I've had trouble lighting it in the cold with CCI LPMs. Go figure?

I've always wondered what role the deterent coating plays in this sort of issue. And, whether they put more on to "slow down" a faster lot?

A better crimp and more fire are generally the solution to failure to light. Any forward movement of the boolit at the primer strike can really keep the presures down.

BD

[Shuz]

Gianni--What was the WC820 lot number of the stuff that gave you the problem?

[Fugowii]

Maybe a piece of tumbling media in the flash hole? I use the same powder, with essentially the same bullet, & WWLPs. Mine always gone off. So far. Did the powder try to burn, or is it just scorched?

Check the primer if you suspect media in the flash hole. It should be bulged. I
had that happen to me three times in a batch of .223 I neglected to inspect
before I loaded them as they got mixed in the inspected stuff. I pulled about
thirty of the loads and never found one bit of media so I fired the rest (~30).
Just my luck. If it wasn't bad luck, I would have no luck at all.

Here is what it looks like:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/Primers_3a.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/Primers_2a.jpg

[mdi]

I, too, use WC820 for my 44 Magnums, but I use Large Pistol Magnum primers. After several hundred loaded at 19.7 WC820 under a Ranchdog 265 or Lyman 429244, or a Lee 240 T/L, all with heavy crimps, I've had no problems; the all went Bang (really loud!).

[Larry Gibson]

Ive gotten some strange reading on the chrono using it with standard primers. It is a powder that is hard to light off. Probably even harder then 110. It needs to be loaded at full power and used with a mag primer. I use nothing but cci 350s with it. Your charge should be high enough but is right on the border. It is NOT a powder that should be downloaded. Used with stout loads and a mag primer its probably the most accurate magnum powder ive found but it can be a finiky one.

Lloyd nailed it.

Larry Gibson

[MT Gianni]

Felix, Primers are about 5 years old, I have 3 jugs left and this is not the first pour out of them. AIRC the powder was bought in 2004. Gianni

[felix]

That is about when I first heard about the primers being changed, but that was from a Federal email. The email said the cups were being made more military ready, but the mix was not going to be changed because it already passed military tests. It appears you got the last of the 1995 primer run. They make primers every 10 years. Don't ask who "they" is. Primers are becoming a commodity, if not in this year's run by any and all folks who make them. ... felix

[MT Gianni]

The lot is BAJ 47320, charge was 21.3 vs previously posted. [the 19.7 was for the 300 gr boolit]. I can't find the case to autopsy. Thanks for the info. Gianni