Mosin Naggant cartridge [Archive]

Harry

06-04-2009, 11:56 AM

My son-in-law is giving his son a Mosin Naggant sniper rifle for his birthday. It is not to be fired, but display only. He has a clip of five live rounds that he asked me to remove the powder and primer so as to safely display with the rifle. I know nothging about this rifle. The bullet is .314 (30 cal?). The rim measures .565 dia. Obviously will not fit my 30 cal shell holders. Any recommendations on how to go about removing bullet and primer ( I think I can remove the powder without assistance:veryconfu).

725

06-04-2009, 12:20 PM

Kenitic bullet puller.
Shoot 'em and reseat another bullet on the inert case.
Fit the rim over the jaws of an open vise, grab the bullet with a set of pliers and whack the pliers so as to pull the bullet away from the case. I'm no fan of "working" on a live round and, frankly, think it a bad idea. I'd go for #1 or #2 suggestion.

briang

06-04-2009, 12:43 PM

I think they're 7.62x54 but I'm not sure. You can pull the bullets with a kinetic puller and try to find someone in the area with the proper die set to decap the primer and re seat the bullets.

jonk

06-04-2009, 01:12 PM

Why not shoot it?

Without the proper pulling tools you are going to have a real pain pulling the bullets without marring the heck out of the case and bullet- hardly nice for a display.

Plus if the ammo he has on a clip is berdan primed, decapping is going to be a pain.

To re-seat the bullet you'll need a set of dies in the caliber anyhow.

All sounds like far far more expense than it is worth for what you want to do with it.

On the other hand I'm sure someone would make you up some dummies from once fired milsurp brass. Might still have the primer in it but it would be spent, have no powder, etc. I'd be willing to do so if you are interested.

JDFuchs

06-04-2009, 01:31 PM

They should be 7.62x54 If you have a vice mounted bullet puller just use a 30cal collet, and I think you can neck down 45-70 cases to the 7.62x54 so it will be the same case holder.

MtGun44

06-04-2009, 01:39 PM

The gun is safe to shoot. Ammo is readily and cheaply available and they are usually
decent to good shooters. No problem with the choice to make it a wall hanger, and while
I can't speak to the condition of that particular rifle, as a group they are safe to shoot with
normal modern ammo.

Bill

DickK

06-04-2009, 02:25 PM

I did some research based on your information. The cartridge appears to be a 7.62 x 74R Russian. According to the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th Edition, the cartridge has a .570 diameter rim and bullet diameter is nominally .310”. The Lyman shell holder for this cartridge is a #17 and is also used with the following: 338 Lapua, 338/378, 378, 416, and 460 Weatherby Magnums, 40-65 Winchester, 416 Rigby, 45-70 Springfield, 45-90 Winchester, and 45-90, 45-100, 45-110, and 45-120. The .310 bullet should fit a .30 caliber collet for a RCBS bullet puller. These are the two items you’ll need to pull the bullets. Once that’s done, you can dump the powder. Most likely, the primers are Berdan primed so just fire them. Then I would drill the fired primers and remove them from the cases. Now you have cases that can be washed and dried to remove any corrosive material from the primers. Then you can reseat the bullets. As an added feature you might drill 3 1/8” holes in the case about 3/4" from the rim and spaced 120° around the case. These holes will clearly identify the cartridges as dummies.

By the way, The Lyman Handbook also says that Norma and Lapua both offer Boxer primed cases in this caliber.

auzzie101

06-04-2009, 02:33 PM

If you want some dummy rounds PM me. I have fired brass and dies.

ronterry

06-04-2009, 06:05 PM

The cartridge appears to be a 7.62 x 74R Russian

7.62x54R - Still in service today...
Winchester Still makes boxer primed Ammo, and boxer brass is available through outlets or GB. You can use standard .308 bullets for basic fodder. Proper bullet diameter is closer to .310-.312 Really varies from gun to gun, cause of wear & other factors. Finish versions are closer to .308.
Most loading dies come with two neck expanders in .308 & .311...
Always go smaller it your unsure or don't want to slug the barrel. In fact, I think the Winchesters use .308 bullets...

I prefer the RCBS puller die, and you need caliber specific collets. But a .30 Cal will work fine.

Harry

06-04-2009, 08:10 PM

Thank you all for your timely responses. According to my son-in-law, this rifle is in pristeen (sp) condition. He does not want to fire any rounds through it. All matching numbers, etc. Stock is unmarred. Only marking is factory. I'll get back in touch with him about some of your recomendations. The rounds are apparently Russian. Marking looks like nny 1986. Thanks again for your inputs. I really learn alot from this forum.

billyb

06-04-2009, 11:42 PM

nny is cryillic ,Russian, for PPU, modern made ammo from yugoslovia

Maximilian225

06-05-2009, 12:57 AM

Brass is Privi Partizan. As BillyB said modern ammo.
If he should change his mind Grafs sells this brass for 46 per 100.

- Max

JIMinPHX

06-05-2009, 02:32 AM

7.62 x 54R dies are commonly available. The shell holder is a Lee #16.

My exploits with decapping Berdan brass can be found here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=50789&highlight=Berdan

txpete

06-05-2009, 10:59 PM

mine doesn't hang on a wall and will out shoot most remchesters:-D:-D.
if the rifle is in good shape crown,bore ect these rifle can be very accurate with the right loads.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/2008_0119russians0003-1.jpg

the round has been around since 1891 and still in sevice around the world.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/napusniperiiii1.jpg

ronterry

06-06-2009, 12:49 AM

JIMinPHX

06-06-2009, 12:58 AM

if the rifle is in good shape crown,bore ect these rifle can be very accurate with the right loads.

Unfortunately, a great many of them have counter bored crowns as a cheap fix for a worn out muzzle.

txpete

06-06-2009, 02:09 AM

Oh Lord! I third world snipper :mrgreen: No wonder where kicking there butts over there.
However it's about the only soviet rounds I have any respect for, even though the rim is rather dated, it's on par with the 30-06...

They made tens of millions of these Nagant Rifles, matching or not there made to shoot. None matching 91/30 probably wholesale for 40-50 bucks, and often retail for twice that.

Was researching it a little yesterday, and it's actually considered the 7.62x53R... Neat little side note...

the 7.62X53R is what the finn's called their round the russians called theirs the 7.62X54R and there is really any difference between the two.

as for counter bore rifles well I don't buy old beaters with worn bores ect. as I shoot all of mine and mostly with cast loads.
the finn's are my fav for cast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKO3IJ4cdqI&feature=related

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU0DJGidzpI&feature=related

JIMinPHX

06-07-2009, 12:59 AM

I wasn't trying to knock your personal collection Pete. I was just making a general comment about the condition of the majority of MNs that I've seen on the shelves around here.

ronterry

06-07-2009, 03:34 AM

the 7.62X53R is what the finn's called their round the russians called theirs the 7.62X54R and there is really any difference between the two.

I got my info from "Cartridges of the World (11th Edition)", and no mention of the Finnish naming... In fact it's listed in the books index as 7.62x53R...

txpete

06-07-2009, 07:29 AM

I wasn't trying to knock your personal collection Pete. I was just making a general comment about the condition of the majority of MNs that I've seen on the shelves around here.
:) I didn't take it that way jim.there are some surplus rifles out there in bad shape counter bores ect.I started collecting my rifles in the early 90's and got to cherry pick mine when they were cheap:).
pete

txpete

06-07-2009, 07:39 AM

I got my info from "Cartridges of the World (11th Edition)", and no mention of the Finnish naming... In fact it's listed in the books index as 7.62x53R...

a good book to have is "the rifles of white death".it was written by a member here and it is excellent with lots of good info on rifles and ammo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_x_53R

I picked up a very nice M28/30 sako from a guy as he thought the head space was off shooting russian milsurp in the finn rifle.:)
I have been shooting my handloads in it now for years no problems and it is a very accurate rifle.
pete

ronterry

06-07-2009, 07:06 PM

Yeap, it never fails :)
Sort of how the 7.92 turned in the 8mm Mauser?

Probably not the best deal, but I scored 50 pieces of new 7.62x54R brass off GB ($27). It's a fun round to load and shot. Last time out I think I loaded up some Reloader 15 which got them on paper with open sights @ 100YDS. I'm going to play around since I actually have more the 40 pieces of brass now, and try some 3031, and maybe 4064 with regular old 308 bullets. Those 303 Brit bullets probably work the best in my 91/30 I have, but if there not in-stock there pricey. I have a ton of 308, so we'll see how good this sucker flings them at 40YDS :)

BBA

06-07-2009, 07:29 PM

Drill a hole in a hardwood board deep enough for the cartridge but small enough that the rim doesn't drop in. Use a big rubber band around the board and cartridge. With the bullit pointing down use the board like a ball bat and hit something hard with it. The bullit should pop out.

Rick N Bama

06-07-2009, 07:47 PM

They made tens of millions of these Nagant Rifles, matching or not there made to shoot.

You've got that right, although I've been through about 15 or so getting the 6 excellent shooters I currently own.

The Hungarian surplus ammo has been the best I've found for accuracy in all of mine. I now shoot cast in 2, an M39 & a 91/59. Tons of fun with a Fatter30 & 18.0grs of 2400.

Rick

txpete

06-07-2009, 11:34 PM

I took my M39 "B" barrel out for the first time today at the range.
I used some 150 gr fmj bullets I pulled from some old russian milsurp in norma brass.
while not as tight as I would like next time out I will try my cast loads in it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/range7june09013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/range7june09012.jpg

russian 150 gr fmj
38.0 grs imr 3031
norma brass
win lg rifle primer

JIMinPHX

06-08-2009, 12:22 AM

Has anybody here ever rebarreled one of those things?

ronterry

06-08-2009, 01:22 PM

Ricochet

06-08-2009, 02:43 PM

Counterbored Mosins aren't in bad shape or undesirable. That was normally done in refurbishment whether they needed it or not. Counterboring is just a deep muzzle crown that gives a sharp, even edge to the lands. Cleans up cleaning rod damage. A good counterbored barrel will shoot as well as one that's not, and way better than one that needs it done, of course.

Remember that all military 7.62x54R is corrosive primed.

txpete

06-08-2009, 04:00 PM

That would flat out blow in the face of economical reasoning! Not saying the receiver isn't worthy, but falls short of most 98 Mausers when it comes to options.
Split receivers found on Carcanos & Nagants are not the most stable platform for ultimate accuracy.

Hmmm the finn's sure took their share of gold medals with their rifles.must have been those crappy recievers :mrgreen:.

Beekeeper

06-08-2009, 04:51 PM

You sure have a way of telling it like it is Pete.
OK I asked once and you didn't reply so I'll ask again, Pete where in bell county Texas

JIMinPHX

06-08-2009, 06:00 PM

Has anybody here ever rebarreled one of those things?

I guess that the answer is "no" then?

fatnhappy

06-08-2009, 06:01 PM

txpete

06-08-2009, 06:22 PM

You sure have a way of telling it like it is Pete.
OK I asked once and you didn't reply so I'll ask again, Pete where in bell county Texas

I have heard that before :drinks: I guess it is just the nco in me:-D:-D.just tell it like it is.

I am about 20 mins out of ft hood on 195.

pete

WILCO

06-08-2009, 06:35 PM

If you want some dummy rounds PM me. I have fired brass and dies.

This is the best option!!!
The rifle cartridge is 7.62x54R and can use a .308 bullet seated into the spent brass. Give Auzzie a shout to help you with this. :coffee:

Harry

06-08-2009, 07:26 PM

fatnhappy,
There will be NO live rounds in the house for this weapon. Where is safety issue?

wilco,
I have pm'd Aussie and it's in the works.

ronterry

06-08-2009, 07:36 PM

I guess that the answer is "no" then?

YES, wait -- no to rebarreling them, and yes to you question -- wait yes to your second question. AWWW EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE --- BUT I'M LYING ABOUT THAT?

JIMinPHX

06-08-2009, 10:14 PM

Am I the only person that thinks having dummy rounds displayed with a wall hanger is a recipe for disaster? At some point a contempt for safety will ensue because after all, it's a dummy round. A dummy round indistunguishable from live ammo.

I included dummy rounds with a framed target that I sent to a friend in California. I drilled holes in the brass & turned the brass so that the holes would not show with the cartridges in the frame. I see no possible problems with that.