Sizing for 30 cal

[WARD O]

If you were going to make up some 30 cal boolits for general use in several guns - what would you size them? Or what is the most usefull sizing die for 30 cal rifles? I ask because I gotta start somewhere and I don't want to buy several sizing dies until I get my feet wet with these rifles.

Thanks
Ward

[felix]

Ward, that is the wrong approach. Best approach is to get the die you need for the best single gun, and then try that same die with the remaining. ... felix

[mroliver77]

Personally I have 10 or more .30 and can use .310 in all of them. A couple will use .311 but most of my sizing is with the .310. Hmm I remembered a couple more. 12 .30cal? You might want to read up on barrel/throat slugging and work from there.
Jay

[fourarmed]

If you are buying them one at a time, I would buy .310 first.

[WARD O]

I know this is not the correct approach - sorry. To start off with, I have four M94's in 30-30 dating from the late 1890's to the mid 1950's and I don't know which is going to be the best as all are pretty decent. I suspect you are right in that I should pick out one and do it correctly and then try the others later. I am mostly looking for a place to start and .310 sounds like a good idea to me. But I will slug a couple of barrels and see where it leads me.....

Ward

[pdawg_shooter]

Try sizing .301/.3015, giving them 2 wraps of 16# paper, lube and run them through a .310 push through die. I have 7 30cals and this works for all of them!

[beagle]

Felix is right. You hav to tailor to the specific gun.

But, if you have to do only one size, I have found that .310" is the most useful diameter./beagle

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Agree....if you have a favorite , do a chamber/throat cast and slug the bore of this rifle. I go .001-.002 over bore size [as long as it will chamber] . Then you can try the other rifles with this boolit. I like to make chamber/throat cast for each rifle and slug the bores.:idea:

If you are interested in best accuracy, this is the first step, then a mold that drops a suitable boolit sized for the rifle...I agree that .310 may be a good compromise if you want to size all boolits one size for all. I use a .309 for a couple of mine and the rest like .311

Good Luck[smilie=f:

[243winxb]

.311 works for my T/C 30-30, 30WCF, 1903a1 & 760 gamemaster O6 , .310" close enough, just as good.

[Junior1942]

Go with a Lee .309" push through. They don't make a .310". A .311" might not chamber easily in all of your 30-30 chambers.

[WARD O]

I am sizing with a Star and currently have a .308 die (from long ago.) As soon as N. O. E. gets the 32 115 gr mould moving I will be needing sizing dies for my 32 H&R and that means .312 or .313. It almost looks like I should have .309, .310, and .311 for the 30-30's. Do I really need to order 5 more sizing dies? I guess that is my real question. Advice ?

[bruce drake]

My advice is to get a .310 first. It is a good compromise because none of us know exactly what diameter your rifle's barrels are and you won't either until you slug them. .310 at least provides you with a bullet sized to fit the majority of most 30 cal rifle's throats.

Buy one, test it in all of them and determine which rifle prefers that size.

I've got an old 30-06 that enjoys boolits sized to .308. I've got two other 308 Winchesters that puke on .308 cast boolits but love .310 sized bullets. I also have a Lee Enfield and a T99 Arisaka that prefers .310 bullets instead of the expected .312 bullets.

I guess what I am saying is that .310 is probably the safest purchase for you, but you'll never know which cast boolit your rifle will like until you try one.

Bruce

[randyrat]

Go with a Lee .309" push through. They don't make a .310". A .311" might not chamber easily in all of your 30-30 chambers. +1 For peanuts and possibly a wait you can get a .309 push thru sizer die from Lee and have excelent results. I use a .309 in 30-06, Ol 336 marlin 30-30 with good results.
Do learn to slug your barrel so you know the optimum diameter eventually.
When you slug your bore and find you need .310- .311 you could bore the Lee sizer die a little.

[mpmarty]

I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to start an argument here but:
Slugging the bore is WAY over rated IMHO. Most bores have a "tight spot" somewhere along the boolit path and all slugging does is tell you the size of the tightest spot in the rifle.

It turns out that my new Savage 308 likes .309 fine and so does my AK in 7.62X51 NATO but my 7.5X55 Schmidt Rubin chokes on them and does really well with smaller boolits.

I started out with .311 as cast and lubed by either dipping or LLA and motor mica. As I reduced the diameters for the Savage and AK the groups got progressively smaller until .309 and then opened up again at .308. The 7.5X55 kept shotgunning groups all over the paper until I got a custom push through at .306 and it absolutely loves those and groups in under an inch at a hundred on a calm day from a benchrest.

Slugging a barrel may be fun and educational but I wouldn't count on it providing any magic information for what size boolits to shoot in it.

Heresy? Maybe, but it works for me.:-D

[Blammer]

I'd start with either .309 or .310

[cbrick]

felix is correct, each rifle should like it's own boolits. My 308 shoots cast at 1900 fps into 2" groups at 200m scoped from the bench sized with a .310" die @ .3095", that's .0013" over slugged groove diameter. My 30-30 however leads with these boolits, it does very well with boolits @ .311"+, its bore measures a full .3105".

All bores vary some and if you don't slug it you'll never know what your working with. Some of your 308 bores, maybe most of them, may work well with .310" sized bullets but odds are very good that all of them won't.

Remember also that your alloy will determine your final sized diameter. Just because your die is marked .310" does not mean your shooting .310" diameter bullets and its not the die makers fault. Pure lead will size closest to marked die diameter and the higher the antimony percentage the smaller they come out of the same die. WW sometimes as much as .0008" smaller than marked die diameter. My WW alloy is normally .0005" to .0006" under my Star dies marked .310".

Why shoot in the dark? Know what your groove diameter is for each rifle and know what your actual sized diameter is with your alloy. A caliper is a poor tool for measuring the diameter, use a good micrometer.

Rick

[runfiverun]

310 won't work for crap if his mold only pours to 309.

[Leftoverdj]

I am sizing with a Star and currently have a .308 die (from long ago.) As soon as N. O. E. gets the 32 115 gr mould moving I will be needing sizing dies for my 32 H&R and that means .312 or .313. It almost looks like I should have .309, .310, and .311 for the 30-30's. Do I really need to order 5 more sizing dies? I guess that is my real question. Advice ?


I'd hopscotch and fill in later if I found I really needed to. You can generally get along fine with every other diameter. I don't recall ever needing a .308 sizer. In your shoes, I'd be strongly tempted to lap that one to .309 and order .311 and .313.

[MtGun44]

This is one of the reasons that jacketed bullets make life simpler. If they are under size
not a lot bad happens, same for a tad bit oversized. For cast, you must have a small
amount oversized boolit, and since this small amount is often less than the variation in
a few samples of ".308" barrels, you get good results in some, can't chamber in another,
or get leading in another.

If you are very lucky and your groove diams all run close to each other, you can very
likely get by with one diameter. If you are not lucky, you will have to adjust the diam
to suit each bbl, at least to some extent.

Bill

[Bret4207]

Asking this question is like asking, "What can I feed 10 kids that ALL of them will like?". While my vote would be for .311 I know some guns will choke on that diameter. The least expensive way out would be the excellent Lee push through sizers. They can easily be opened to whatever diameter you want with abrasive cloth.

For that 32-20 you may need as large as .314 to .315. I have, lets see...6 I think 32-20's and 32 S+W's and while all will do alright with .313 boolits a couple really need .314+ for best work. Again, the Lee sizers work great for this if you can find a lube you like that you can apply without a lubrisizer.

[WARD O]

Thanks for all the good ideas.....

Ward

[Char-Gar]

I have to throw in with Felix and the others. I spent many years trying random things in an effort to get cast bullets to shoot well. It was sorta like a dog chasing it's tail. To be blessed with cast bullet accuracy you must follow a linear path and not just stab in the dark.

Pick one rifle. Know it's dimensions (bore, land, and throat) and pick a bullet and sizing diamter that will work with that rifle. Find the right alloy temper, bullet design, lube, power and charge weight. When you have achieved your goal then go to another rifle.

If anything you have acquired from the first rifle, works well for the second, third, etc. rifle then you are lucky. If not, then get what you need.

If you are content to hit a grapefruit at 50 yards then it doesn't matter much what size bullet you use. If you want to hit a key lime at 100 yards, every time, then you must follow the linear path. Where you want to go will determine the path you take.

[WARD O]

If you are content to hit a grapefruit at 50 yards then it doesn't matter much what size bullet you use. If you want to hit a key lime at 100 yards, every time, then you must follow the linear path. Where you want to go will determine the path you take.

Well, when you put it that way..... I will pick out a favorite and approach it in an orderly fashion.

What is to be gained by a chamber/throat cast? What is meant by matching the bullet to the throat?

At this time I only have mould 31141. What else would anyone recommend for the 30-30?

Ward

[compass will]

I have a Lee 309170 (flat point) and a 309200. yes they come out bigger then .309 with 66% wheelweight 33% pure lead.
(but I lap lee molds with a cast boolit in a drill with polishing compound before I use them, not sure if that makes them much larger or not).

Sized to .310, my new Savage likes the 170, as well as my early marlin 336 (30-30)
I did not try the 200 that much in the .803 because the 170 is doing clover leafs at 100 yards if I do my part.

First I tried a 312185, sided to .310 in the 308 and it hated it. Then we found my buddies old 30-06 shot them better then jacked bullets!