need paper help!

[TREERAT]

:bigsmyl2: I got 9 lb 100% cotton onion skin, and it measures .002 exact.
did I get the right stuff?
two raps should = .008, minus .001 for stretch and dry = .007 is this right?
I want my wraped bullit to be .360, so my lead should be .353 size, is this right?
my bore is .350 and lands are .359, am I making the bullit the right dimensions?

tryed to figure the grain of the paper with tear test, can not tell!
but when wet the paper wants to curl, so do I wrap with the wet papers natural curl around the bullit or 90 degree to it?

one last thing, how much can you size down the already patched bullet?
example lee sells a .356 push through, so if I wrap this size adding .007 I will get
.363, can this be sized down to .360 without ruining the patch. it would save me from haveing to get a custom size die!

[6.5 mike]

TREERAT, I'm new to this also, but I wrapped some lee 185's for my 303 sav recentlly
with good results. Used 2 wraps of #20, they dried to .321 ran through a .311 lee sized
they came out at .312, got a little spring back. Checked them after they set for 2 weeks & no change. Lubed with jpw, slid through no problem.
If you get a lee sizer, check the ID, all the ones I have were small. Easy to lap to whatever size you need.
I cut my paper across the narrow end, seems to work best for me.
Another I just tried is lee 130 7mm unsized. Dropped at .2865 two wraps meade tracing paper took it to .291, just about right for what I need. This might give you some idea how much they grow when wrapped for real.

[303Guy]

I got 9 lb 100% cotton onion skin,That's great! They say that's strong stuff. With my less than delicate fingers, I have difficulty wrapping wet printing paper. I am trying tracing paper on some Lee 185's I've had lying around for 25 years (because they did not work in my 303 Brit). Now I am patching them for my two-groove (since none of my other boolits work in it) amd the first test came up positive! I don't know how tracing paper compares with onion skin it is tough stuff. It's thickness is .002, the unsized boolits are .312 accross the bands and a double wrap tracing paper patch takes that up to .320. The bore ride section starts out at .30 and end up at .309. I shot this just like it was down the .303 bore x .313 groove barrel.

Wrapped and dried
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-004F.jpg

Waxy-lube sabot
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-005F.jpg

Loaded
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-007F.jpg

Recovered boolit
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-008F.jpg

The first test I did was with a naked base. That peened out quite badly.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-009F.jpg

Of course, the 303 Brit does have a rather large and tapered throat but the boolit swaged through just fine. Oh, the boolit seated nice and firm into the unsized neck!:Fire:

I am busy right now patching and loading up some rounds for range testing.

[catboat]

[QUOTE=TREERAT;579817]:

tryed to figure the grain of the paper with tear test, can not tell!
but when wet the paper wants to curl, so do I wrap with the wet papers natural curl around the bullit or 90 degree to it?

QUOTE]

"Tear test": It is entirely possible to have virtually the same amount of tear force 90 degrees to each other. This called a "square sheet" in the paper industry. It isn't necessarily better or worse for the paper. It depends on the paper properties (strength needs) set by the customer for that grade. There still may be some differential in tear strength along one axis, but a human hand may just not be able to detect it.

If a square sample of paper (ie 1" x 1" , or 2" x 2" ) curls while in the palm of your hand, that would indicate an indication of fiber orientation. The paper will curl ACROSS the longer lengthed fiber. Or in other words, the ends of the paper sample that would come in contact with each other if they kept on curling-to form a cylinder, would have the LONGER fiber ( or more fiber aligned in that way).

think of it this way. Lay out a bunch of toothpicks next to each other, all lined up to form a squarish sample (~ 2" x 2"). Then place a piece of tape across them on both sides. You will only be able to "curl" that group of toothpicks in one way. The curl will be ACROSS the short portion of the toothpick. This would simulate paper fiber. The TEAR would be GREATER ACROSS the toothpicks (and across the fiber). It would be easier to tear the taped group of toothpicks WITH the long axis. just like paper's tear strength would be LESS, going WITH the longer fiber, or fiber aligned WITH the tear force.

A true "square sheet" for tear, would be similar to having toothpicks or fibers oriented 90 degrees to each other, in equal distribution, like a tic tac toe board layout. In someways, it may be the easiest paper to use for patching a bullet.

In real terms for paper patching, is one way to wrap "right" and the other "wrong?" I don't think so-but maybe. In shooting, probably not. It may allow you to wrap a patch easier, or to provide more twisting tail strength (which is a form of tear strength) on some grades of paper.

Your "square tear stength paper" should be great to use, and meet your needs. Don't worry, just wrap it and shoot it. If one type of paper works best for your needs, and the bullets wrap well enough- then you're all set. Sounds like you are doing fine.

Good luck.

[pdawg_shooter]

Cut 2 1" wide strips the same length, one in each direction on the paper. Hold them by on end sided by side. The one that droops the most is cut across the grain. That is the way to go. Gives the most stretch wet, and the most shrink dry.

[TREERAT]

so the longer grain lays with the length of the bullet?

[docone31]

I wrap with the grain.
So far, so good.

[pdawg_shooter]

so the longer grain lays with the length of the bullet?

No, the longer grain needs to run across the patch. Thats why you use the strip that droops the most. Either way WILL work, but you get the best stretch and shrink across the lon grain. I just reread you post. Sorry, we are saying the same thing here. I should PAY ATTENTION!

[TREERAT]

so another way of saying it, so I am clear on the subject, wrap the natural curl around the bullet?

[pdawg_shooter]

Yep. That works for me!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The great thing about that 100% cotton or rag bond of various weights is that it stretches when rolling the patch on and it shrinks uniformly when dry and as your patching technique becomes consistent . That's a reason to stick wet patched bullets in a tray to dry evenly. I used about 20% as a shrinkage figure for the cotton rag bond I used. This gave a ballpark figure for guessing on the work so that I could often NOT SIZE before or after patching and still seat a lubed paper patched bullet into the case without distortion. Oftentimes the chamber neck will accommodate this. I believed the less mechanical work on the bullet, the better. Depending on your cartridge you can use lead, 10/1, 20/1, 30/1 etc and vary diameter also. The patch stops the leading of course when working properly and its a case of the lube or grease wad or disc working on the fouling (for BP). BvT