Rip off

[abunaitoo]

A guy I'm helping start shooting called me yesterday. He said a friend of his has some 30 carbine ammo for sale.
$75.00 for 100!!!!!!!!
Talk about a rip off.

[JSnover]

Tell him he needs to make some new friends

[ronterry]

Maybe that's what he paid? Ask...

[Freightman]

Kinda like a friend of mine called and said" his brother-in-law had 10,000 LRP and would sell them all for $1000! My answer was if I had 10,000 LRP I would to.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Weare starting to see some primers available. Now the real scum will surface.
They cleaned off the shelves and hoarded and are waiting for an opportune time to cash in.

Screw them. Don't buy from these thieves. Buy only from your normal gunshops or mail order outlets. Let these thieves eat thier profits. Do not give them the time for day.

We have awaited the return of primers and powder for many months and a few months more will not make a difference.

Hopefully they will lose their shirts and never again skew the market for profiteering.

[Dutch4122]

Weare starting to see some primers available. Now the real scum will surface.
They cleaned off the shelves and hoarded and are waiting for an opportune time to cash in.

Screw them. Don't buy from these thieves. Buy only from your normal gunshops or mail order outlets. Let these thieves eat thier profits. Do not give them the time for day.

We have awaited the return of primers and powder for many months and a few months more will not make a difference.

Hopefully they will lose their shirts and never again skew the market for profiteering.


Couldn't have said it better myself, Dan!

[ronterry]

Sounds like you guys have issues with Capitalism?
Choice is the key! If someone wants to pay 10 cent per primer let them, but don't call the saler a dirt bag profiteer.
If only you knew what sort of profit powder valley or Midway etc. make you would fall over...
Now if it were a time of crisis, and folks where charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water, I'm with you 100%!!!
Primers & Powders are not a need, but a want right now, so it's Capitalism - straight up..

[Down South]

Primers & Powders are not a need, but a want right now[smilie=1:
I think that it’s a fact than many bought reloading supplies on large scale to gouge buyers later with the products when supplies were short. That just a little beyond capitalism to me. Hopefully these folks will eat these components and later, us who need them can buy them for pennies on the dollar. As far as components being just a want and not a need then you are incorrect again.

[Heavy lead]

Sounds like you guys have issues with Capitalism?
Choice is the key! If someone wants to pay 10 cent per primer let them, but don't call the saler a dirt bag profiteer.
If only you knew what sort of profit powder valley or Midway etc. make you would fall over...
Now if it were a time of crisis, and folks where charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water, I'm with you 100%!!!
Primers & Powders are not a need, but a want right now, so it's Capitalism - straight up..

I 100% believe in Capitalism, but you are confused about some things. Capitalism can and does have dirtbag profiteers involved and they can and should be called out. It is no different than playing poker, there are winners and losers. Almost for sure some of these people that bought to resell at a higher price will lose money, quite frankley that is nothing more than poetic justice at it's best. I have managed to buy enough primers legally, through valid dealers by keeping a fast finger on the keyboard and refusing to panic. I've got plenty that way, in fact bought for a very fair price from Natchez, Grafs and a couple locals in the last 3 weeks.
Capitalism is great, mostly though anyone that profiteers will never come out ahead in the long run, and as everyone knows the true test of a good business person is long run sustainability, not short run gain, any fool can do that. Short run gains usually just piss the potential long range customer off and in reality anyone that is relying on selling primers for a living by a profiteering tactic is a really, really small fish in a big pond anyway.

[azrednek]

I expect a year or so from now there will be some real bargains at gunshows. Some of the hoarders will discover they have more primers than they can shoot in a life time and will try and recover the cost. A good example was the outrageous cost of MRE's just prior to the so-called Y2K crash. About 6 months later they were darn near giving them away.

[scb]

I don't have a problem with anyone getting the highest price possible for something they own. If it's more than I'm willing to pay I'll walk away. If you weren't prepared this time, I'll bet you will be next. Or maybe we can get the Obamanation to put price controls on primers. I've watched some auctions on Gunbroker.com and there have been some no reserve auctions for primers that were started at a reasonable price. It was the fools bidding on them that drove the price into the stratosphere.

[fatnhappy]

Sounds like you guys have issues with Capitalism?
Choice is the key! If someone wants to pay 10 cent per primer let them, but don't call the saler a dirt bag profiteer.
If only you knew what sort of profit powder valley or Midway etc. make you would fall over...
Now if it were a time of crisis, and folks where charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water, I'm with you 100%!!!
Primers & Powders are not a need, but a want right now, so it's Capitalism - straight up..

seems like you have a problem with free speech. I believe Crash has as much right to call a spade a spade as any seller has to set the price of his product.

There have been some threads down in swapping and selling where sellers asked ridiculous prices, which is their right. It's not as though Ken or Willy are barring sales that are higher than retail.

[garandsrus]

It's pretty amazing, but the going price on Gunbroker for USGI .30 Carbine ammo is about 75 cents/round. I personally wouldn't buy it at that price, but obviously some folks feel differently.

If a buyer freely agrees to purchase an item at any price, they are not being ripped off. They have made what they percieve to be a good deal. The seller must also perceive it as a good deal or s/he would not have sold at that price. Nothing wrong with either side of the transaction.

I will be more than willing to purchase someone's stock of expensive primers at cheap prices once the market opens up. Nothing wrong with that either...

John

[GrizzLeeBear]

Sounds like you guys have issues with Capitalism?
Choice is the key! If someone wants to pay 10 cent per primer let them, but don't call the saler a dirt bag profiteer...

Ok, I wouldn't call someone I don't know a dirt bag, but these people sure as heck deserve the tile of profiteer.:takinWiz:on 'em.

Going back to reloading now, at least I have enough primers to get me through this years shooting.

[ronterry]

Looks like I'm making friends here already. I didn't mean to rattle anybodies cages, and I certainly didn't mean to direct my response at a single individual...

I not defending there practices, but I will defend capitalism.
I'm all but certain a lot folks you bought into the big 'sky's falling' deal are going to be in a hurt a year from now. That's goes for both side. Billy Bean Bob who has 400,000 primers in his garage is going to kick himself in the ass for buying these at five time there value, and is probably the same fruit that's trying to sale them at five time there value cause he was misinformed.
I for one also express my anger, that I can't find simple parts for guns! It is freaking insane!
Because I know patience is a virtue, I can wait and not get all worked up cause there's folks out there taking advantage of supply & demand. Hell if someone is willing to give me 100 bucks for a box a 1K primer, I'll take it?
I consider myself lucky I bought a big stash a year and half ago to save on Hazmat :)
At least lead & Copper prices came down, and that's something to happy about fellow casters!

[archmaker]

Capitalism . . . I am all for it. Absolutely and 100%. Not a perfect system but I hate any alternative.

However, what I am seeing with primers in some cases, is more closely tied to ticket scalping.

Tell me what the difference is if a 100 ticket scalpers setup and wait for the door to open, buy a 100 tickets each and the venue is sold out. The market was (let's say) $39 dollars a ticket. But now the event is sold out and if you want to go you have to pay someone who bought something they did not need, that they do not want, for a price a lot more than what they paid for it.

vs

Some guy buying 40,000 primers and no reloading equipment, and then turning around and selling them for twice what he paid for them.

So let's call it what it is. It is not capitalism but it is scalping . . . primer scalping.

And I never pay scalpers for tickets to an event. I do not get the ticket from the Box office then I do not go.

I will do the same for primers.

[runfiverun]

ain't nothin worth more than someone is willing to pay for it .....period.
works for houses,cars,horses and primers.
hell the stock market is based on buy low sell high,if you buy at 28 bux and a year later that stock is still worth 28 bux what's the point of keeping it?

[JIMinPHX]

I found WSP primers at a local shop the other day & grabbed a brick because I know another guy from here on the board was looking for them. He stopped over today & picked them up. I rounded the price up from what I paid to the next even dollar, but I didn't stick it to him, even though he said he would have paid more for them.

This lunacy isn't going to go on forever. Just remember who your friends are & who tried to stick you because they could. It all comes out in the wash eventually.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Primer prices seem to backing off a bit on G.B. , still some folks paying big$$ , but some of the higher priced bricks of primers are going "NO Bid"...to bad for whom ever has been gouging.....
That is human nature......Not "Capitalism". IMHO

[ronterry]

This is snip it of the definition...
Supply of goods, commodities and services are determined by voluntary private decision in a market economy.

In a free society, I'm allow to charge what I want, for my goods or services - and you either take it or leave it. It's a freedom of choice...

[armyrat1970]

This is snip it of the definition...
Supply of goods, commodities and services are determined by voluntary private decision in a market economy.

In a free society, I'm allow to charge what I want, for my goods or services - and you either take it or leave it. It's a freedom of choice...

Very true. And I am allowed to refuse to buy from you also. The ones that buy the item for the possible outrageous price that may be asked for it is themselves to blame. Put up some brass to sell on another forum at the going Midway price and later felt bad about it. Rolled back the price to Midways 2006 catalog prices and still never sold it. No problem. It is brass I do use anyway, just extra I had on hand. No one wants it, I'll just keep it for my own use. I won't buy from a gouger and won't visit any local gunshows after reading some post about the outrageous prices and the simple idots that have been attending them. I will keep my money local and deal with a reputable dealer whenever he has what I need. I have a good supply for my shooting needs and am not hurting.

[lunicy]

I'm not mad at people like that. Capitalism is America. The alternative is socialism. The gougers will put them self out. $75 for 100 rounds is high as hell. Did you buy them? NO. He will sit on them. Primers at outrageous prices are the same. If one of my contacts tried to sell me primers at $50 I'd laugh at him. Even if you really needed the primers, you might buy them at $50. When the craze calms down, are you going to buy more from him? Even at a lower price? NO. He puts himself out of business. On the other hand, the man that sold you primers at a normal price during this panic helped you out. He just gained a life long customer. Gougers will put them selves out of business.

[Junior1942]

The supply has started to catch up with the demand. In a year or two the gougers will have to unload primers and ammo from their garage storage spaces. Don't know about you guys, but to me improperly stored components and ammo is worthless. A bargain which misfires every 50 rounds or so ain't a bargain.

[anachronism]

Suppose I put an item on an auction & start it out at a reasonable price. say $30.00 for a brick of primers. Bidding gets intense, and it runs up to $80.00, as so often happens, am I a bad guy? Now, what if I start the same item at $75.00, and it sells for the same $80.00, am I a bad guy?

My primers are not for sale, but I have had items go crazy at auction. Should I withdraw the items if the bids exceed "street" price under "normal" circumstances? Would you?

Not to fear, price controls are headed down the pike. Socialism works that way, And we're there. We need only await the next Presidential Directive. Even Pravda is calling us "Marxist". Be well, comrade.

[Leadforbrains]

The supply has started to catch up with the demand. In a year or two the gougers will have to unload primers and ammo from their garage storage spaces. Don't know about you guys, but to me improperly stored components and ammo is worthless. A bargain which misfires every 50 rounds or so ain't a bargain.

That's a good point, and that's why I don't plan on buying primers and powder from bubbas garage sale.

[cajun shooter]

Ronterry, You have got to read your book on capitalism again. The part that you did not soak in is the price in an open market!! That means that supply lines are open and you can find the product being offered by many sellers. When you have a person that has the only ones available in a 500 mile area and he ask 4 and 5 times the amount that the product sold for; that's scalping and price gouging by the SOB!! As far as some people said; are you jealous because they have them? When a person buys primers in any amount and he does it to take advantage of others then I will call him what he is. I shoot CAS three times a month and it was coming to the point that our club was going to cancel shoots. If you don't see a problem with that then you will be a lonely person with the money earned from capitalism!!

[Bullfrog]

First I want to thank all of you for some very good reading. It is great that folks can sit around and talk and have an opinion.
Second, I just took a trip to a town called Denver City Texas. Believe me I was using my GPS with the word GUNS in every town. I stopped in a couple and bought some powder I can use that is unavailable here in Denver Colorado. I COULD have wiped out the shelves and brought it here to sell, but I figured hey, the local guy needs it too. I just got what I can use and thanked the fellas for having it. While I was at one shop in New Mexico the guy at the counter said what he really could use was .22 LR. I said is that so, I just left a town that had 20 bricks of it for fair market value of 35 bucks a brick. Just so happened he was from that town but never set foot in that local Ace hardware.
I guess Things worked out for the best for us both.

[kywoodwrkr]

Then there is the ant and the grasshopper.
The ant stores for the winter and the grasshopper lives for today.
Neither of them are capialists or socialists-just critters.
We are critters also, some of us store for the winter(low production, high prices etc) and some of us play in the field all day instead.
In fall of 2007 price increases in primers was high(I thought anyway).
Another member here and I ordered what we considered to be a large number before price went through the roof.
Neither of us has the ability to see the future(at least I don't) but common sense told me to buy. I did.
Bought berdan primers at roughly the same time from Grafs. Now have them as well.
Just my weathered observations.

[Leadforbrains]

I have made some minor adjustments to my recreational shooting until the panic passes.
I have plenty of powder, primers and ammunition for quite awhile if I don't get to extravagant at the range. I have enough on hand because I use to shoot a great deal on a regular basis and I was constantly rotating stuff in and out on a regular basis. I kind of saw this coming, but like many folks I was in denial on how bad it was going to get. I was lucky that I had plenty when the shortages hit and the shelves went bare.
Now believe me when I say it is pure torture for me to look at all the ammo and components that I have and not knowing when I can replace it if I go out and shoot it all up.
I am still going to the range with my son periodically, but I am being a little more frugal these days.
I have enough, but where is the fun in just having enough ammo????

[waksupi]

I keep thinking back to post Y2K. Lots of generators, chain saws, other goodies, new in box, at yard sales for pennies on the dollar.

[Mallard57]

I guess we shouldn't get mad, we should just get ready for when it just goes on sale. Think the gougers will be pissed when when we give them less than they paid for their stock? What goes around , comes around.
Jeff

[Charley]

This is snip it of the definition...
Supply of goods, commodities and services are determined by voluntary private decision in a market economy.

In a free society, I'm allow to charge what I want, for my goods or services - and you either take it or leave it. It's a freedom of choice...

Absolutley. I don';t mean to shout, but COMPLAINING ABOUT SCALPER'S PRICES IS THE SAME THING AS OBAMA COMPLAINING ABOUT CEO PAY. If you don't want to pay scalper prices, plan ahead, find alternatives, or do without. For you younger children out there, this happened before under another president. Perhaps you've heard of Hillary's husband, Bill? He was POTUS, and components disappeared from shelves like magic during his first term. Scalpers ended up eating a bunch of components, gun sales at gunshows slowed waaaaay down, with lots of bargains to be had. I see the same thing happening this time, and it is going to happen AGAIN with the next liberal gunbanner who gets elected.

[JIMinPHX]

The local range was full as soon as it opened this morning. I guess that some people are able to find plenty of ammo.

[mroliver77]

I had a "friend" one time put a stereo system in my car. Later I found out he had used a rebuilt stereo and used speakers and charged me for new. Coupl of years later I had a large amount of "bird bombs" to play with. He wanted some badly. I only made 75% on the deal. What goes around comes around.
Now some time before the election I purchased a decent amount of primers prolly adding to the problem. I seen it coming. I still believe "The sky is falling" just a little bit at a time. I will not be stuck with them as I am taking everything with me when my time comes just to be prepared. ;) Really I got that covered also. :) If'n there was someone I could help out I would but there are few reloaders that I know. (in my area) Except the stereo guy.lol
Jay

[armyrat1970]

The local range was full as soon as it opened this morning. I guess that some people are able to find plenty of ammo.

I handload and cast and have enough componets for the shooting I do. I don't know if many are finding ammo for their shooting but I have had a little luck in the past month. A few weeks ago I was in my local WallyWorld and checked the sporting goods section. There was a box of Blazer Brass in 45ACP 230grHB for 14.97 and I bought it. Reloadable cases and I get 50 to shoot. I went into the WallyWorld again yesterday and there was another box of the Blazer Brass in 45ACP for the same price. I bought it. Asked about 357 but the guy behind the counter told me they don't even carry the Blazer in 357. Darn. Was hoping I could pick up a box from time to time. Looking for a brick of 22LR but they only had boxes of 50 or 100. No way I would pay $35 a brick for 22LR as Bullfrog stated was a fair price. Doesn't seem like a fair price to me. WallyWorld also had Winchester White Box in 357 but for 27.97 I passed. I will not pay outrageous prices for the ammo that is available or for the primers and powder I may find.

[Bullfrog]

I stated that 35 was fair for a brick of 22 LR only because I have seen it go for 50 a brick here in Denver. I got it for 20 a brick at Wally World and bought one so I can feed the 10/22 There were about 4 bricks, but I only needed one.
I was told by a shop owner in Texas last week that the common fear spreading is 2012
Folks are freaking out the same way they did in 1999


*- if ignorance is bliss, I know a lot of happy people- Bullfrog AKA Derek

[abunaitoo]

Just was informed that a shop here got a shipment of primers in.
Standard large rifle $45.00 for a brick of 1000.
Two years ago I bought a case of 5000 for $80.00.

Also went looking for Blue dot this weekend. None to be found. Been on order for over three months.

Hope this ends soon.

[ronterry]

Same here! I loaded up when they where 80 per 5K for the #34 & 41, and 99 per 5K for all other CCI.

BTW: I just paid about 35 for a brick of 500 last week at the local Big R. It was the Remington sub sonics. They said they have deals every couple month for 17.99 a brick.
Not sure what kind it is though...
I can kick myself in the butt! I remember SW had remy's for 12.99 per 500 not all that long ago! The one over by the Aurora Mall, bullfrog...
Ever been in the powder room there? If the guy working there is cool, they will take you back there if you ask. Sort like a kid and a candy store.

[Bullfrog]

SW closed down last month :(

I have not been the same since

[Typecaster]

Bravo, Junior!

I will always be skeptical of powder/primers/chicken that some clown has hoarded on in hopes of cashing in on panic buyers. I figure it's all been stored out in the yard—rain, snow, and summer heat…and would pay accordingly. If it's a retailer I know, that's different.

I think we're really entering a "buyer beware" era, at least from private parities.

Richard

[ronterry]

Sayyyy What? Your kidding right? The Sportsman Warehouse?
Dang, well I guess there's a Huge Bass Pro off I70 not to far from there...
I know that Gander on Jewell never stocked very well in the hay days. But was pretty good with used guns at times...

It's all UPS and Internet for me, unless I have business in the city. uuuggg...

[Lee]

The boy down the road has slapped yet another sticker on his primers. This one says $80/1000. Same old 10 year old primers.
The boy down the road is recruiting "friends" to hit Wally-World etc. daily and buy out anything that comes in. He sticks his sticker on it at $10 more.
The boy down the road doesn't realize it is one more reason I haven't bought from him in months.
The boy down the road doesn't realize now that if I came across him dying of thirst in the desert, I wouldn't piss on a flat rock to help him. And like the bible clinging, gun clinging Republican elephant I am, I have a looong memory.

When you gas up with $2.50 gas this weekend, remember the price based on "FUTURES", not on reserves, remind yourself that gouging is wrong. Remind yourself that the next time the gas boy wants to sell you some hot dog buns or beer to go with your gas, you'll go elsewhere for "ANYTHING" that you don't "NEED" from him. Yeah I know, it's not his fault, it's the gas companies. Hmmmm, where is the obamanation on this issue? And sometimes, just sometimes, gasoline is more of a need than a want.

I will hurt all them gouging boys as hard as I can when I see them doing this, given any opportunity I can, for the rest of my life. I seldom forgive, and I never forget. And wait till Bam-Bam goes into high gear. You'll see gouging then like you have never seen before...................

[PatMarlin]

I remember there was a big Y2K convention my wife and I attended. I never saw so much cash pass across a table to buy "Preparedness" items in my life. People were paniced.

I bought a nice water filter and my wife bought some heirloom seeds that day. We still use both, all these years later.

[9.3X62AL]

Capitalism--YES

Depredation--HELL NO! I hope the stockpiling rip-off artists starve to death when their mountains of critical supplies lose value shortly. Maybe their primers will taste good with enough Tabasco and garlic salt.

And NO, I'm not one of those with short supplies of reloading consumables. I just loathe thieves and oppurtunists.

[carpetman]

Pat--I bought some heirloom seeds and raised a mighty dandy crop of heirlooms. Do you have any good recipes for heirlooms?

[armyrat1970]

Wasn't many years back I could buy a bonus pack of 550 Remington 22LRHP Golden Bullet at Wallyworld for 5.50, if I remember right. I still have six boxes sitting in an ammo can inside my safe. I ain't gonna' pay these outrageous prices. No Way.

[abunaitoo]

Just had a guy shooting some Fed carbine ammo.
$22.99 for a 20 round box!!!!!!
Does this seem high to anyone????

[9.3X62AL]

Uh, YEAH.

[dakotashooter2]

I noticed to that the auction price on primers has already dropped $15-20 per 1000. Gunbroker has nearly 600 listings where I don't think they normally have more than a dozen or so for primers. Bids are dwindling and many auctions are going unbid. I would guess any sellers that don't get rid of there stuff within the next month will see a very limited profit after that. The number of "sucker" buyers is also thinning out. As prices return to normal those shops that have been profiteering are gonna take a hit in business and possibly lose more than they gained.


What goes around comes around. [smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[358wcf]

Gentlemen-
This is a classic study in capitalism and business principles.
A businessman is taking a financial risk when he buys something for resale, and hopes that he can cover all his costs and expenses, plus a bit of profit, when he sells the item to the next consumer. If he asks too high a price, and the buyer is not prepared or able to meet that price- no sale. No sale means no profit, and nothing to cover the initial investment or even the expenses incurred. Without the sale, the seller eats it-- that is the downside of risk taking.
The seller sets his asking price, and the buyer is welcome to meet that price or counteroffer. If the buyer feels the asking price is too high, he should walk away and leave the seller to reconsider his price.
If the seller holds his price high, he is still gambling that someone will pay it-- if not, he continues to incur costs, even with no sale. No sale = big losses.

As buyers, we have to evaluate our NEED vs our WANTS, and what price we are willing to pay. When the price gets too high, we walk, right?

If the goods, primers, powder, jwords, etc are just not available, it cannot be helped.
Those of us who have a good supply will gladly share to some extent with our GOOD friends- it is at this time you learn whose friendship you can TREASURE.

Let the businessman set his price and take his profit. Nobody is being forced to pay the high price. We are all guilty of panic buying at times like these. We don't want to run out- that is why it hurts to see the prices high.

I for one think hard this year about going to the range and "wasting" primers and powder. Then I think about the enjoyment I get, the friends I spend time with, and realize this is part of the cost of this sport.

We do this because it is our heritage, our sport, our hobby, an exercise of our freedoms. Losing this is what we dread.

Sorry for the epistle. I could go on forever, but won't--

358wcf
Concord, CA

[ronterry]

woooo that sounds familiar?

[lylejb]

yesterday i was in to a local gun shop in the portland , or area. no primers (of course) BUT HEY, THEY GOT SOME POWDER. imr4895....COOL, I COULD USE SOME OF THAT!!!! They had about 20 of the 1lb cans. i grabbed one from the shelf and asked how much. the junior behind the counter had to ask someone else. while i was waiting, i noticed somthing......it still said DuPONT !! a quick flip over to look at the lot code....p81xxxxx this powder was made in 1981 . by then junior had came back "$29.95"...no thanks!

[Heavy lead]

Remember folks, part of capitalism is walking the fine line between short term gain vs. long term profitablilty. This should be self explainitory so won't extrapolate.

[358wcf]

One of my staff told me yesterday his brother in Las Vegas, NV wanted to go target shooting w/friends- local sporting goods store charged him $48.00 for a single box of W-W 270 ammo! Being a newbie, he assumed this was normal, and paid it-
Can't blame the guy, as he didn't realize he was getting ripped off- It's us old guys that know better that have to discipline the market.

358wcf