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Bodydoc447
03-07-2006, 01:28 PM
I broke my Lyman 450. The whole pressure adjusting screw stripped out of the bottom of the machine. I'm going to order a whole new subassembly from Lyman. Is there anything else I should tack on to the order for preventive maintenance, good stuff to have on hand? Would appreciate the voice of experience on what breaks and how often.

Thanks,
Doc

TC66
03-07-2006, 01:45 PM
What you are ordering is the only thing I have had to replace on my 450. Well I added a heater too but that was just due to using harder lube.

montana_charlie
03-07-2006, 03:57 PM
I broke my Lyman 450. The whole pressure adjusting screw stripped out of the bottom of the machine.
Doc,
I'm interested in knowing more about how that happened.

The pressure rod turns as you crank in the lube, so I guess the head could wear off eventually. But, it seems that it would take a 'billion bullets' to do it.

Did the head wear out, or did the hole in the cast iron let go?
CM

singleshotbuff
03-09-2006, 11:55 AM
My 450 broke in exactly the same way. On my unit, the pressure rod is not threaded directly into the cast iron frame. It is threaded into a steel disk that is set into the bottom of the unit. Does anyone know if this steel disk comes with a replacement pressure screw from Lyman??

SSB

rbt50
03-09-2006, 12:55 PM
mine did the same thing i am waiting for parts now.

Bodydoc447
03-09-2006, 01:21 PM
I was sizing some 410426 bullets with nicely warmed Carnauba Red lube in a lyman .410 die. Nothing untoward happened as far as I can tell. Does not take much pressure with heat to get this lube to flow well. I just stopped getting pressure in the lube so I thought I had run out or had a huge airpocket. I backed the screw off and removed the pressure piston and there was still some lube in the reservoir but enough I could had half a stick. I tried to add half a stick and I could not get the piston to go down. It just stripped in the base. Nothing cracked or let go all of a sudden but something I had done previously or chronically had caused the attachment of the screw to the base to strip. I ordered a subassembly from Lyman (and a few extra O-rings in case I have trouble reassembling it).

Doc

Singleshotbuff,

I think you have to order it separately if you just order the rod. It is included if you order the subassembly. Assuming I read the descriptions correctly.

montana_charlie
03-09-2006, 01:58 PM
Humph! That surprises me.

Sometime back, I was looking at an eBay store where the guy had pressure screws for 5 bucks. He said if you ordered one along with some other stuff, there would be no extra shipping charge for the rod. Went on to say everyone should keep a spare on hand.
Now, he said his pressure rods would fit the #45 and the #450, so I have always believed then to be identical. That cannot be, if the rod on a #450 threads into anything on the bottom of the lube reservoir.

Mine (for a #45) looks like a 3/8" bolt with a round head instead of a hex head. It shoves up through the bottom of the cast iron where the head sits in a countersink...and the threaded portion sticks up for the pressure nut.

When you crank on the rod to move the lube, the whole 'bolt' turns...head and all.

Is yours not built this way? (I wish Lyman provided pictures of their parts the way Lee does.)
CM

floodgate
03-09-2006, 08:10 PM
Montana:

"I wish Lyman provided pictures of their parts the way Lee does."

They do. Call Customer Service and ask for their publication
"Reloading and Cast Bullet Guide", Item #9837283. It has instructions and parts diagrams for all their current tools. The #45's and the earlier #450's had the setup you describe, with the head of the pressure screw rotating in a recess in the solid-cast base of the tool. Later, and for the 4500's, they bored the lube reservoir right on through and closed it off with a round bottom plate as described in the thread above (with a VERY inadequate O-ring seal) that had the screw head recess. So far as I know, ALL the pressure screws interchange, as do the old piston with its expanding brass ring seal and the current O-ring ones.

floodgate

imashooter2
03-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Or look at the .pdf of their manual for the 4500 and see a parts diagram there:

http://lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/Instruction%20Guide%2014.pdf

montana_charlie
03-09-2006, 10:32 PM
Or look at the .pdf of their manual for the 4500 and see a parts diagram there:
Thanks for the link to the manual, imashooter2. I found the whole thing interesting, the parts pictures informative, and (perhaps) an answer for Doc.

It just stripped in the base. Nothing cracked or let go all of a sudden but something I had done previously or chronically had caused the attachment of the screw to the base to strip.
Doc,
The final paragraph in that linked owner's manual yeilded this...which might explain your failure.

"Never increase lube pressure when the lubricant reservoir is empty or almost empty. If you force the pressure piston down so that it contacts the bottom of the reservoir, you will damage both the pressure screw and the pressure piston."

You'll know whether or not this is applicable to your situation.
CM

Bodydoc447
03-10-2006, 05:19 PM
CM,

Really was not an issue for my situation. I felt no increase in effort to try to turn the pressure adjusting bolt/screw like I would expect if I bottomed out. I just stopped getting pressure. That's why I backed it out to see if I was out of lube and I wasn't. I still had about 2+ inches of lube in the reservoir. When I tried to add more lube I could not get the piston to push the lube down. BTW, this was the first stick of lube this machine had seen. I bought it off ebay as a second lubrisizer to use with heated lubes and it appeared NIB. Guess I just got a lemon.

Doc

Bodydoc447
03-16-2006, 05:19 PM
Got the replacement pressure screw and was back in business as soon as the lube warmed up. Was the easiest fix I could have imagined. Now I have to replace the O-ring on the base of the other 450 when it runs out of lube. It leaks a little with plain ol' Alox 50/50.

Doc

475/480
03-16-2006, 09:41 PM
Anybody here break the link #22,that is the only part that I break is #22, the link has snapped twice.Both times when sizing big pistol bullets with gas checks.


Sean

montana_charlie
03-16-2006, 11:21 PM
Both times when sizing big pistol bullets with gas checks.Are you sizing them down...or bumping them up?
Have you tried a Grade 5 (or harder) bolt?
CM

475/480
03-16-2006, 11:59 PM
Hi,
I am sizing them down,the bolt does not break it is the link that breaks.

Sean

Newtire
03-17-2006, 01:04 AM
Humph! That surprises me.

Sometime back, I was looking at an eBay store where the guy had pressure screws for 5 bucks. He said if you ordered one along with some other stuff, there would be no extra shipping charge for the rod. Went on to say everyone should keep a spare on hand.
Now, he said his pressure rods would fit the #45 and the #450, so I have always believed then to be identical. That cannot be, if the rod on a #450 threads into anything on the bottom of the lube reservoir.

Mine (for a #45) looks like a 3/8" bolt with a round head instead of a hex head. It shoves up through the bottom of the cast iron where the head sits in a countersink...and the threaded portion sticks up for the pressure nut.

When you crank on the rod to move the lube, the whole 'bolt' turns...head and all.

Is yours not built this way? (I wish Lyman provided pictures of their parts the way Lee does.)
CM
Here is the guys E-mail address who had the pressure screws. Bought mine for $5.00. customcastbullets@yahoo.com

Beerd
03-17-2006, 02:54 PM
I'm not sure which part "Link #22" is, but I keep shearing off the bolt on the top linkage of my 450. Last night it was a Grade 8 bolt. At 3 for $1 I just keep some spares on hand.
Also busted the handle clean off where it screws in. Replaced that with another big old bolt and it seams to work.
..

Tazman1602
11-06-2009, 08:44 PM
Anybody here break the link #22,that is the only part that I break is #22, the link has snapped twice.Both times when sizing big pistol bullets with gas checks.


Sean

Hey Sean are you still here? I'm trying to find a parts breakdown but it appears Lyman no longer has a dad-gone parts breakdown on their site. I've just broken the part the handle itself screws into on my 450 and I *think* it's the number 22 link you are referring to. Got any idea where to find a parts breakdown or a reason why this link breaks? Was sizing .458 405g RCBS bullets for my 45-70, been a while since I cast this bullet but this is the second time I've broken this link and I can't remember what the hell I did to correct the issue the first time.................I was trying to size before heat treating without lube, I *think* last time I cast I heat treated then sized with lube to correct the problem, I know that's bass ackwards of what the book says. Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Art

imashooter2
11-06-2009, 09:34 PM
Hey Sean are you still here? I'm trying to find a parts breakdown but it appears Lyman no longer has a dad-gone parts breakdown on their site. I've just broken the part the handle itself screws into on my 450 and I *think* it's the number 22 link you are referring to. Got any idea where to find a parts breakdown or a reason why this link breaks? Was sizing .458 405g RCBS bullets for my 45-70, been a while since I cast this bullet but this is the second time I've broken this link and I can't remember what the hell I did to correct the issue the first time.................I was trying to size before heat treating without lube, I *think* last time I cast I heat treated then sized with lube to correct the problem, I know that's bass ackwards of what the book says. Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Art

Courtesy of the Wayback Machine...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507031301/http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/Instruction%20Guide%2014.pdf

stubshaft
11-06-2009, 09:37 PM
Hey Sean are you still here? I'm trying to find a parts breakdown but it appears Lyman no longer has a dad-gone parts breakdown on their site. I've just broken the part the handle itself screws into on my 450 and I *think* it's the number 22 link you are referring to. Got any idea where to find a parts breakdown or a reason why this link breaks? Was sizing .458 405g RCBS bullets for my 45-70, been a while since I cast this bullet but this is the second time I've broken this link and I can't remember what the hell I did to correct the issue the first time.................I was trying to size before heat treating without lube, I *think* last time I cast I heat treated then sized with lube to correct the problem, I know that's bass ackwards of what the book says. Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Art

I broke a couple of these in the past. The last time I called Lyman they sold me and "upgrade" kit from 450 to 4500. What a waste of money that was! It contained the link I needed and everything else was the same EXCEPT the handle now had a ball end instead of the rubber one.

Don't let them talk you into the "upgrade" just tell them that you need the link.

Tazman1602
11-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Courtesy of the Wayback Machine...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507031301/http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/Instruction%20Guide%2014.pdf

Thanks very much IMA, this thing is driving me nuts. Problem is I go into "casting mode" about once a year, cast the **** out of every caliber I have. With age I forget how to use it have to learn all over again.......

Art

Tazman1602
11-06-2009, 10:15 PM
I broke a couple of these in the past. The last time I called Lyman they sold me and "upgrade" kit from 450 to 4500. What a waste of money that was! It contained the link I needed and everything else was the same EXCEPT the handle now had a ball end instead of the rubber one.

Don't let them talk you into the "upgrade" just tell them that you need the link.

Man stub I was just thinking about GETTING the upgrade but I am reading a LOT of distressing information about both Lyman AND RCBS sizers and I can't afford the high priced stuff. I would get the #22 link and then braze the washer to each side of the link but the darn thing broke where it goes to the plunger, not at the top link so I guess I'm stuck with the link. I can't believe Lyman does not have easy access to documentation on their website either.

Christmas the only thing I was trying to do is size some .458's for my 45-70, wanted to run them through the sizer before I heat treated and the first bullet went in HARD and stuck. Got it unstuck and adjusted and went to do number two and it stuck.............. then I got ticked and latched on to that handle and SNAP. Got any idea if I'm doing something wrong? I only get to casting about once a year and now I'm sitting here on Friday night with several hundred bullets waiting to be sized and no sizer, wish I was 20 again and still into going to the bar................or rich

Gee if the government could just get rid of all the sizers.......'nuff said........

Thank You,

Art

Shiloh
11-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Keep spare O rings for the pressure nut as well. They get trashed from compression and motion.


Shiloh

imashooter2
11-07-2009, 10:47 AM
Man stub I was just thinking about GETTING the upgrade but I am reading a LOT of distressing information about both Lyman AND RCBS sizers and I can't afford the high priced stuff. I would get the #22 link and then braze the washer to each side of the link but the darn thing broke where it goes to the plunger, not at the top link so I guess I'm stuck with the link. I can't believe Lyman does not have easy access to documentation on their website either.

Christmas the only thing I was trying to do is size some .458's for my 45-70, wanted to run them through the sizer before I heat treated and the first bullet went in HARD and stuck. Got it unstuck and adjusted and went to do number two and it stuck.............. then I got ticked and latched on to that handle and SNAP. Got any idea if I'm doing something wrong? I only get to casting about once a year and now I'm sitting here on Friday night with several hundred bullets waiting to be sized and no sizer, wish I was 20 again and still into going to the bar................or rich

Gee if the government could just get rid of all the sizers.......'nuff said........

Thank You,

Art

A little case sizing lube on the first half a dozen boolits into a dry die helps prevent the sticking you describe. Once the die gets a coating of the boolit lube on it you can stop the case lube.

theperfessor
11-07-2009, 10:48 AM
I overhauled my 450 for reasons listed in the link shown below. The photos don't really show the screw that drives the piston but it does not thread into the base, it pushes through the base plug from the bottom and a larger diameter section at the bottom end of the screw has a shoulder that bears up against a pressed-in plug.

http://www.usi.edu/science/engineering/Lyman450/Lyman450LuberRebuild.htm

Don't know if this will help any.

dragonrider
11-07-2009, 11:17 AM
I broke the threads off the handle on my 450, drilled and tapped it, cut the threads off a greade 8 bolt to use as a stud. Worked fine.

mtgrs737
11-07-2009, 12:15 PM
I have three Lyman 450's and I have a set of O-rings for the piston, a die retaining nut, lube chamber cap, boolit ejection rod, and ejection sleeve and nut as spares. I also have an extra die wrench for die removal and an extra ratchet for the lube screw. None of these parts are expensive but are costly one at a time due to shipping and handling.

Cherokee
11-07-2009, 01:38 PM
The extra part I keep is the lock ring that locks the sizing die into the recess. They seem to be delicate and I broke one cenching the die in so it did not leak. Now I'm more careful.

hiram
11-07-2009, 05:11 PM
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/pdf/LyC_BC_LS_4500.pdf

sleeper1428
11-07-2009, 06:11 PM
I've broken linkage bolts twice - too much pressure put on the linkage while sizing some large boolits with lube not warmed quite sufficiently - and have replaced the sealing plate and O-ring seal on the bottom of my 450 at least 2 or 3 times due to leakage of lube around this staked in plate. But I've only replaced the reservoir screw once and that was only because the first time I had leakage around the bottom seal plate I inadvertently ordered a complete replacement assembly rather than just the parts I needed. Since the unit was over 15 years old at that time, I decided to replace the old reservoir screw with the new one even though the old one was still working just fine.

Now, as to the parts I think one ought to have on hand to repair the 450, I'd say that you ought to have a couple of linkage bolts, pressure washers and nuts, at least one bottom seal plate - and possibly two - as well as a couple of O-ring seals for that plate. If you've had problems with your reservoir screw in the past, it might be well to have a spare one of those as well. Having said this, you ought to keep in mind that unless you're in a bind and need to get some lubing/sizing done immediately, you can simply order the necessary parts from Lyman and they'll have them to you in less than a week. At least that's been my experience and I've ordered many parts from them over the years.

If I can offer one bit of advice on replacement parts, it would be to do a really good job of staking that seal plate into place when you replace it. As it came from the factory, it was staked in only about 6 places so that's how I staked it when I replaced it the first time. However, either I didn't do a good enough job of staking or the number of stake points wasn't enough because it began leaking almost immediately after I started using it again - I do have a heater on the unit and it was on so leakage wasn't due to my having to apply excess pressure. So when I replaced that seal for a third time, I staked it in 12 spots equally spaced around the perimeter of the seal. Since that time I've had no further problems with leakage around the seal plate. Oh, by the way, I also did one more thing and that was to put thin metal shims, cut to the same diameter as the seal plate, between the heating plate to which the lube/sizer is mounted and the seal plate, taking up the small space that exists between that plate and the base of the sizer. This keeps a constant pressure against that seal plate which apparently is sufficient to counteract the pressure being generated by the reservoir screw and pressure plate inside the sizer. This shim only needs to be about the thickness of a razor blade and is easily formed from any thin sheet metal you happen to have available.

sleeper1428

Tazman1602
11-07-2009, 06:37 PM
A little case sizing lube on the first half a dozen boolits into a dry die helps prevent the sticking you describe. Once the die gets a coating of the boolit lube on it you can stop the case lube.

Absolutely, I broke it because of stupidity, didn't mean to slam Lyman at all, the 450 works excellent when you don't have an idiot (ME) running it. It's just frustrating because the documentation on their site was so convoluted to get to. I DID try to shove that bullet through it dry and that is why I broke the dang thing, the two week wait for parts just kills me is all and Thank You for reminding me to lube the dang things until the lube gets flowing. Doesn't help that I use Rooster Red Zambini exclusively, VERY hard lube and I do have to turn on the heater for an hour or so before I start sizing..........and I was wondering why I had that bottle of liquid alox sitting on the sizing bench...............just a lesson to **** my OWN manual that I've written before getting excited about doing stuff.

.......maybe if I whine enough wife will let me buy a backup sizer....like a Star???

Art

Tazman1602
11-07-2009, 06:53 PM
I overhauled my 450 for reasons listed in the link shown below. The photos don't really show the screw that drives the piston but it does not thread into the base, it pushes through the base plug from the bottom and a larger diameter section at the bottom end of the screw has a shoulder that bears up against a pressed-in plug.

http://www.usi.edu/science/engineering/Lyman450/Lyman450LuberRebuild.htm

Don't know if this will help any.

That is one SWEET piece of work Perfessor!

Art

theperfessor
11-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Thanks, Art. It doesn't leak any more from base and my boolits don't bend from misalignment. Overkill maybe but it is my only sizer and now it works fine. I'm not too impressed with Lyman's design and construction techniques on this model, hope they changed things with the 4500 but I don't have one to check and see.