Well, I Took The Leap...

[Josh Smith]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/midway2.jpg

Well folks, as you can see, I've entered a new phase in reloading.

Supposedly these do not need to be run through a sizing die; if they do not measure correctly, I'll buy a die. Otherwise, they're for practice and I won't worry too much about it.

Other than that, I have NO CLUE as to any of this. I have a melting pot around here someplace, some ingots, and probably as many wheel weights as I want, from the junk yard down the street.

What do I use for antimony?

How much antimony should I use to keep leading down at 850fps max?

I've heard that dropping them in water will help harden them. Is this true?

Safety equipment - gloves, eye protection, what else?

If I cannot find the lead pot, I will use a Coleman camp stove until such time that I do find the lead pot. I plan to do this in an open garage, or set up outdoors, to keep myself away from fumes.

How does one go about lubing the bullets? Do I need commercial lube, or is there something I can make myself when this lil' 4oz bottle runs dry?

Any and all advice is sincerely appreciated.

Thank you,

Josh <><

P.S. Not thrilled about doing two bullets at a time, but this is the only mold anyone had in stock, so I jumped on it. If I find I'm good at this, I'll upgrade to a six cavity mold eventually. Thanks again. J.S.

[RP]

well sounds like you got a good ideal on what to do. I use a tl mould in 45 and the alox put them in a plastic jug and shake them up dump on wax paper. I use stg WWs for my alloy in the plinking loads works fine for me. You can also use JPW as a lube there are several threads on it. When you smelting you lead flux it before you remove the crud it may be tin which helps the lead flow filling out the mould better. I have found out it take air cool lead longer to get hard the water dropped been told two weeks dont make any sense it takes that long but I mixed some lino with my lead and tested it way softer than the same lead without the lino now iam waiting to see how long it will take to get a true hardness reading. And yes dropping them in water will make them harder but over a period of time they will go back to what ever the alloy is the time frame is still up for decussion weeks months years I have not heard anyone say.

[frank_1947]

Be careful when casting, when your lead is hot DO NOT have any water around if you are out side and it starts to rain , get the hell out fast, when water just a drop goes in a pot look out, it blows.

You bought the TL mold that is tumble lube but I didnt see where you bought Lee Liquid Alox you need that and do what Ricky P said or use coffee can as I do.

They say you do not need to size them but I never seen one that didn't need to be Lee has a cheap sizer easy to use.

They say wheel weights have some antimony in them I have only added 50/50 solder to my mix 50 lead 50 tin, and I have bought some lyno and add that also.

[BarryinIN]

Josh- Welcome!
I'm sorta new here myself. In spite of it saying I've been here for two years, I just recently started participating...about when I started casting.

Production:
I don't know about using a ladle, but using a bottom pour furnace, I'm not fast by any means but I am cranking out bullets...sorry- boolits...at a reasonable rate. At least, it seems that way compared to how I expected it to go (I was pessimistic).
Depending on the mould/boolit, I think I'm making up to six casts per minute, and I'm slow since I'm new and clumsy at it. I'd think I'll only get faster.
So even at six casts per minute, and using a two cavity mould so it's making two per cast, that's 12 boolits per minute. Or, a theoretical speed of 720 an hour.
Even if I can only get to ten/min, that's 1,200 an hour.

I don't know if that's encouraging or disouraging, but look at it like this:
You can't BUY 1,200 bullets in an hour right now!

[fredj338]

I would have recommended the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Everything you need to know about casting. If you have a Lee manual, there is some useful info there too. You do NOT need to add antimony, clip on ww have enough to harden your bullets, air cooled or water dropped.
I started w/ a dipper & hated the process so went right to a bottom pour, the Lee 20# is great for the money. Luber/sizer, I like them. Your bullets will vary quite a bit depending on alloy & castin temp. So I like having all my bullets the same size. Does it matter, probably not, but I find loading bullet of the same dia. easier to set my dies up for. If you can get the Lyman book & read it , it will help a lot.

[waksupi]

Be careful when casting, when your lead is hot DO NOT have any water around if you are out side and it starts to rain , get the hell out fast, when water just a drop goes in a pot look out, it blows.


Frank,that is one we have disproved. You can turn the garden hose on a pot of melted lead. Just don't get any under the surface!

[frank_1947]

I dont know anything about all that all I know is one drop of sweat in the pot and you will have a scar on your neck as I do and when it sticks to your skin you have to pull it off, and its friggen hurts.

[dominicfortune00]

Can we just agree that water and molten lead don't mix?

Sometimes explosively don't mix?

[ghh3rd]

Early on, I learned how scary it is to stir molten lead with a piece of wood that wasn't 100% moisture free. It created a rumbling feeling through the stick, and there were lots of little lead bubbles bursting on the surface, which is not a good thing. :(

[frank_1947]

Can we just agree that water and molten lead don't mix?



YEP we sure can.

[jsizemore]

Early on, I learned how scary it is to stir molten lead with a piece of wood that wasn't 100% moisture free. It created a rumbling feeling through the stick, and there were lots of little lead bubbles bursting on the surface, which is not a good thing. :(

Did you get any lead on you from the rumbling and lead bubbles?

[Randall Kepley]

Hey Joshua, good to see you from the 1911 forum, Im just getting my feet wet also. Just did my first smelting last week, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=54317

didnt go a smooth as I wanted but we did get through it , learned alot and next time should be a breeze. R.K.

[timbuck]

What do I use for antimony?

Magnum shot has antimony. i heard 1/4 cup per 20lbs. will do it.

[Josh Smith]

Thanks folks.

So, walk me through the process. Let's say I have the mold and everything here. Let's further say that I was able to get the wheel weights and not have to use pure lead.

Can anyone give me step-by-step instructions?

Thanks,

Josh <><

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Joshua, Hullo and Welcome , go to the "Classics & Stickies", read "Goatlips" , has good info there for starting out. Go to the "Lasc" site for a lot of information on alloys and such for casting.

There is more information in the threads and stickies here than you can read in a year.

The WW have Antimony in them , and Tin and a bit of arsenic . They will serve you well if you have access to them , go for it and put some away, they are going fast.
Good Luck

[KYCaster]

[QUOTE=Joshua M.
Safety equipment - gloves, eye protection, what else?
Josh <><
[/QUOTE]

Hat, long sleeve shirt, long pants, leather boots with pants outside boots. Cotton fabrics...NO SYNTHETICS!!!

If you sit while casting, leather welder's apron or heavy shop apron.

Or if you're brave enough, you can cast like Buckshot....he wears a jock strap and sandals and casts only by the dark of the moon.[smilie=1:

Welcome aboard.
Jerry

[Bret4207]

Josh, just to be clear- There's more than enough antimony and other trace elements in common wheel weights to handle any shooting up to at least 14-1600 fps, provided your boolit fits the gun. No need to add anything right off. Get your mould clean and melt clean and start casting. Mould temp is important and as long as you have wrinkles your probably not casting fast enough to get the heat up. A well filled, non-wrinkled boolit signals a clean mix, clean mould and mould at working temp.

BTW- Find a Lyman or RCBS ladle or make your own from a gravy ladle by adding a wooden handle. I'm a fan of Lee products, but their ladle is a glorified soup spoon and not a very good ladle. It'll get you through the few weeks, but there's better to be had.

[cajun shooter]

Welcome to the forum, spend some time in the sticky section,also buy the Lyman Cast book and use the search engine on this forum. It's not that members will not answer your questions but you will find all kinds of useful info in those places. You can spend days doing the reading that I just told you about. Welcome to a hobby that is as good as the shooting itself. Later David

[captaint]

Josh, Welcome. You may also want to consider getting a cheap (12.00) maybe, hot plate to set the mold on to get it hot enough to work with. I know I had to do it that way. Would probably help to get some king of metal plate to go between mold and hot plate coil. Get your mold real clean (brake cleaner & dish soap), and have at it. Rotometals sells nice caasting thermometers reasonable. I'm fairly new at all this too,and all this stuff helps. Do read the Goatlips casting page. Very informative. Good luck. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Mike

[dubber123]

One tip I will add, being you already aren't happy about the 2 cavity slowing down production is this: Don't hurry. A good way to get burned, and a few quick slams of a Lee 2 cavity and the alignment system is shot and you will have a junk mould.

Find something flat, (scrap steel plate), lay the mould on it and then close it. It will help tremendously in getting it closed right. When you handle your new mould, you will see what I mean. The Lee 2 cav's are a bargain for the price, but don't judge all 2 cav moulds by them..

[DLCTEX]

6 casts per minute is a cast every 10 seconds. That's fast. Air cooled straight WW is adequate for 850 fps and much more. I use 50/50 WW/pure up to 1100 fps with good results. Water dropping will produce hard boolits instantly, but they will harden some more over time , howbeit the gain in hardness will be slight after about a week. At some point (years) they will eventually return to air cooled hardness (many years). I have boolits that I water dropped 5 years ago that are still hard. I have not measured the hardness, but I can bet they are about as hard as those I water dropped last month. WW boolits can be pushed well over 2000 fps without adding anything to the alloy. I have Lee 2 cavity molds with 25-30,000 casts that are still working fine and produce as good boolits as my Lyman and RCBS molds.

[atr]

cast in a well ventilated area
GO SLOW
wear long sleeves
wear clear safety glasses
moisture and molten lead do not mix
if you use a coleman make sure everythings is safely supported. No balancing acts with lead pots full of molten lead.
have some beeswax or paraffin or shaving from a candle stub to FLUX the mix
GET the Lyman Manual if at all possible
YES,,,wheel weights have antimony

[Wayne Smith]

Wow, Josh! 22 responses in one day - I told ya this was a good place! I use a 2 burner Coleman propane stove and have for the past 10 years. If it's a 2 burner there is no balancing problem, the little one burner I wouldn't touch! I've also been ladle casting for the past 10 years, never did get a bottom pour. I'm not a high volume shooter so the speed is OK for me. If I cast 100 of anything they will last me a while.

Listen to what the guys here are telling you. I don't wear safety equipment, shirt, jeans, socs and shoes are adequate. I've splattered lead on a thin cotton shirt that didn't go through and didn't burn me. Blue jeans without holes are more than enough. Stay upwind when you smelt wheel weights! The oil smoke and junk in with the weights will stink to high heaven if you haven't figured that out by now. I wear glasses all the time, if I didn't I would wear safety glasses. Eyes are just too important.

[BarryinIN]

Josh, Welcome. You may also want to consider getting a cheap (12.00) maybe, hot plate to set the mold on to get it hot enough to work with.

Josh, if you go the hotplate route:
Since I know you live in the same state as I, and since I was looking for a hotplate around here recently myself, I can tell you a couple of sources. Target has one, but it's about $20. The cheapest that still had enough wattage to do anything was at Walgreen's. It was $12, I think, and was 800 watts.

I was going to go the gas burner route at first, but I knew I would run out of gas in the middle of something. I'd be ready to go electric the first time that happened anyway.
That hotplate plan fell by the wayside when I bought a package deal of stuff on this forum that came with a Lee furnace...then I got a deal on a used RCBS Pro-Melt right after that.
I have to say that although I was trying to start as cheaply as possible with a burner I already have, it sure is nice to just plug in and flip a switch.

Come to think of it...
Give me a little while to get sorted out as to what I'm doing and I may let you have that Lee furnace, at least on a long-term loan if not for good.
I was thinking of keeping it to pre-heat alloy to refill the Pro-Melt as I used it up, but I don't know if that will even be necessary. It's the little dipper-only one. If I decide I don't need it, I'll let you know and we can see about the best way to get it to you if you want it.

[Josh Smith]

Barry,

That would be very cool of you - esp since I can't find my small lead furnace for casting jigs! I know where I last saw it, but it's been many, many years.

Josh <><

[geargnasher]

My quick tips:

Troll here more as has been mentioned.

Lyman Cast "Bullet" manual, GET ONE AND READ IT.

If you don't know who Glen Fryxell is, go to lasc.us and read his casting, fluxing, and alloy articles (someone already mentioned the site).

Use plain dry sawdust for flux. Free, saves your tin, blends your antimony, absorbs dirt and calcium, better imo than just wax or borax.

Get a Lee bottom-pour pot. (Otherwise known as a "Drip-O-Matic").

Smelt and flux your lead to make clean ingots, don't smelt in or put dirty alloy in your pot unless you have to and are willing to clean it. Only cast with clean alloy. Do not smelt in aluminum pots or pans, use stainless steel or cast iron. (ss works best on hot plate).

Read the section here on "Leementing", after you use your Lee mould you may experience some problems that are common to the aluminum moulds, do not distress, they are easy to fix.
Season and prepare your Lee moulds before trying to use them for the first time or you will be miserable.

Brake cleaner is the best degreaser I have found for moulds, they must be absolutely oil free or they will cast wrinkled boolits.

Slug the gun barrels you cast for and get a good, C-clamp type (not calipers) micrometer in 0-1" if you don't already have such in your reloading repertoire. Boolit diameter is critical to prevent leading, go for .001" over groove diameter.

A little LLA goes a long way, your 4 oz bottle should last for a couple thousand boolits.

Hopen this helps.

Gear

[BarryinIN]

Barry,

That would be very cool of you - esp since I can't find my small lead furnace for casting jigs! I know where I last saw it, but it's been many, many years.

Josh <><

I'm at least 90% sure you can have it for the taking. I just need to do a little more casting to make sure I don't want it as a "pre-warmer" or something. I doubt I will, but want to make sure. I'm just waiting on a set of mould handles I have on order before I cast some more. Honestly, I don't really think I can spare the room on my casting table to use it like that if I wanted to.

You can probably count on it being yours after my next casting session. When that will be, since I need those handles to show up first, I don't know (I expected them and the rest of an order around a week ago).

[Josh Smith]

Found it!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/leadfurnace.jpg

It's even a Lee. The name meant nothing to me back when I was casting the jigs.

I cannot overstate how much I miss my grandfather who gave this furnace and ingots to me all those years ago, and wish he were still here to see me getting into bullet casting; he would have been quite tickled.

Josh <><

[fatnhappy]

I can't encourage you enough to get all the WW's you can from that junkyard while you can. When scrounging for lead the golden rule is to make hay while the sun is shining.

Let us know how you make out with your first casts.

[uncle joe]

I dont know anything about all that all I know is one drop of sweat in the pot and you will have a scar on your neck as I do and when it sticks to your skin you have to pull it off, and its friggen hurts.

partially right, Rick is correct water on top of the lead is no problem just runs around and dances on the top.
HOWEVER
if you get a drop of water (or sweat) on an ingot or other solid lead and put it in the melt, you are asking to see a great example of the power of steam. the water will be drawn down into the melt with the ingot and BOOM or just POP either way when the steam comes out so does the melted lead all over anything close.
PS this will also cause a POP or small BOOM when you cast into a mold with a drop of water inside.
But all dangers aside LOOK OUT lead casting is an addiction that can only be cured by running out of lead to cast with.
:bigsmyl2:
I find myself casting even when I don't need any more bollits.
be safe and enjoy
UJ

[bingo]

Josh

I am a newbie but I have cast boolits years ago. I never laddle dipped, only bottom pour out of a lee 20 pro pot. It works great for me. Smelt your ww in a sact iron pot into ingots. Melt the ingots in your lee pot and flux again to remove any crap. I do not preheat my molds, I just start casting, pour,wait about 10 sec. ,hit spru plate, drop, repeat.

After about 10-20 wrinkled ones (to cold) they stark looking great. That means you got the rythrum. To fast or to slow is no good. Find the speed that works for you and then keep going and do not forget to add more ingots befor pot gets to low or melt will get to cold.

If you have problems just let us know. Good luck and we all want to see pictures of some beautiful boolits that you are going to make.

Bingo

[wallenba]

Invest in a Brinnell tester, Lee makes one for about 75 bucks, it is a comparator type meaning that after holding the pressure on the material as described, you look through a small calibrated microscope (provided). The diameter of the impression is compared to a chart for the BHN. That will give you an idea of what to add. WW are fairly hard as they come( watch out for the bright shiny ones, they have zinc, which will screw up all your alloy). Alloy can also be bought bulk from Midway if you have doubts about what you are getting. Pick up the Lee loading manual, there is a chapter in there that covers a lot of stuff. You can go old school and pan lube, ( find Goatlips on this site and visit his web site. Or the alox tumble lube works OK, but it it can build up in you seating die(just wipe the nose before seating. A lubrisizer is a lot of extra work, and as I tumble lube with alox that very same bullet, I can say that (in my boolits anyway) it is not necessary at all. Also see the ammosmiths vid on youtube.

[BPCR Bill]

Josh, welcome to the club! There is alot to learn in casting, most of it technical, but alot of it is learned along the way. Your technique while casting boolits will go a long way toward the quality of your boolits, and that is something only you will figure out. I cast large boolits for my Black Powder shooting (over 500 grains) and I have found the smaller the boolit, the easier it is to get a good casting. Casting for my pistols is a piece of cake, ditto for the 30 cal rifle boolits. The big ones tend to have weight variations if you are not on top of mold and melt temps. Have fun, pay attention to what yer doin, and don't burn yourself!

Regards,
Bill