What's cleanest (HA HA) burning black powder?

[10 ga]

It's obvious that different makes of BP leave different nastiness behind after shooting? I guess it depends on source, purity, ratio, heat generated, pressure, etc... I see where some comment on the various makes and relative dirtiness of the powders. In your experiences, anecdotal or scientific, which powder in which granulation is dirtiest, cleanest etc... This should cover powders currently available. I know of Goex, KIK, Pennsylvania, Graf, Swiss, and Schutzen. If there are others to consider say so. Thanks for the discussion. 10 ga.

[oldhickory]

I've only used Goex in the past 20 years, but I would say A LOT depends on your lube.

[docone31]

I am not sure the residue is a big deal. I have used Goex, Pyrodex, and years ago, I had a whiz-bang clean up BP substitute I got from Cabelas.
The lube is what tells the story.
I now make my own, 55%-45% beeswax- Olive oil with some Crisco tossed in to tighten it. Now, I can fire lots, at least lots compared to what BP considers lots. Front stuffing is definately different than working a bolt.
With the lube I make, any fouling gets pushed down and fired out next shot. I fire both the R.E.A.L.s and patch and balls. Clean up after firing is a snap. Hot water worked in and out of the barrel/nipple. In actuality, clean up is a snap. I use the lube to re-oil the barrel, and the R.E.A.L. and patch and ball, put more lube in the bore for firing.
So far, no leading, no hard to clean out bores. A little trouble with the nipple on my wife's rifle but that was acquired used. The nipple had crud in the hole.
Useing that lube I do, seems to solve a lot of issues.

[Old Ironsights]

It depends. Someplace back in the archives there is a bit of testing I did.

What I found is that "clean" is directly related to the % of Fines in your powder.

For example, Swiss has a very consistant granulation/few fines. It burns very clean.

Lidu (scrimage/firework) Bulk powder is very dirty... and has a high volume of Fines.

However, if you sift Lidu throught a 3F "Hold/Pass" screen, and shoot only the "Hold" (3F or bigger) it shoots every bit as clean as Swiss.

Make sense?

[northmn]

Theres a few things concerning fouling. Powder brand is one. Some claim Swiss has a softer fouling than GOEX. It has certainly become popular with BPC for that reason. Graf's does not seem to be a lot different than GOEX. Granulation can also make a big difference with finer granulations as a rule fouling less than the coarser, although that could be that less is commonly used. Another variable many do not often consider is load tightness. A tighter load may foul less than a loose one due to the higher pressures. Then lubes also make a difference. The liquid lubes such as Hoppes 9+ or LV clean as well as lubricate. The grease lubes do not evaporate and grease the barrel but often foul worse. Generally a grease lube is best for hunting where the shots are fewer but one keeps the load in longer. Using the wrong lube can really mess up things. I have used Grafs and GOEX, have some Swiss and do not know anything about KIK or Pennsylvania.

Northmn

[Old Ironsights]

Here's one of my posts on the subjuct.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=124905&postcount=29

FWIW I get only a light GREEN fouling in my flintlock with 40mesh sifted Lidu... and I only swab about every 5 shots.

[JeffinNZ]

Swiss.

[mooman76]

Don't really matter. That's like saying which is the cleanest dirt. Pyrodex claims to be cleaner, less corrosive. It's all dirt and corrosive and a nasty mess to clean and has to be done right away. Bore butter claims to keep the corrosion down and it actually does. I tested it and left my gun uncleaned for a week checking it each day and it never showed signs of corrosion. I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time but it's kind of a cumfort knowing if you cna't get to it as soon as you like you have a lttle protection. I'm not sure if it helped in the dirty department or not.

[Hanshi]

Theres a few things concerning fouling. Powder brand is one. Some claim Swiss has a softer fouling than GOEX. It has certainly become popular with BPC for that reason. Graf's does not seem to be a lot different than GOEX. Granulation can also make a big difference with finer granulations as a rule fouling less than the coarser, although that could be that less is commonly used. Another variable many do not often consider is load tightness. A tighter load may foul less than a loose one due to the higher pressures. Then lubes also make a difference. The liquid lubes such as Hoppes 9+ or LV clean as well as lubricate. The grease lubes do not evaporate and grease the barrel but often foul worse. Generally a grease lube is best for hunting where the shots are fewer but one keeps the load in longer. Using the wrong lube can really mess up things. I have used Grafs and GOEX, have some Swiss and do not know anything about KIK or Pennsylvania.

Northmn

I agree. I've noticed a significant difference in fouling between low and high pressure loading. Example: blank firing vs live fire. I also feel lube is a major factor. This may explain why 3f often seems cleaner burning than 2f; the peak pressure builds faster and possibly higher.

[Harry O]

Thats a little bit like asking which is the cleanest (most honest) politician.

I have shot GOEX, Elephant, and Swiss. Swiss is the cleanest -- it has the least fouling. However, all are dirtier than ANY smokeless powder. I don't see that much difference between them other than I can shoot Swiss in a revolver a little bit longer before it starts to bind up and needs to be cleaned.

[Boz330]

Here's one of my posts on the subjuct.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=124905&postcount=29

FWIW I get only a light GREEN fouling in my flintlock with 40mesh sifted Lidu... and I only swab about every 5 shots.


OI, where did you get your screens? What do you do with the fines, use them for priming?

Bob

[cajun shooter]

The powder sold by Graf is Schutzen. They buy it by the cargo container. When it comes to BP there are so many variables to your question that it's almost impossible to answer. For the most part though the more attention that is done to it in the corning stage will determine how clean it shoots. This is where the powder goes through the screening and size of the grains process. As was stated before it keeps the grains of like size together and removes the fines. Some BP shooters do a socking to the powder that they use. It is putting your powder in a sock and shaking to remove the fines. The way you load also has a lot to do with how clean the gun is after firing. My mentor is Bill Knight who I feel knows more about BP than any person that I've had contact with. Go to the open range sight and read his post, you will be busy for days. On this forum you have some top BPCR shooters who are also full of info. Don McDowell, Kenny Wassenburg, Mike Venturino and several others. You can read for days and not even come close to the end. Just remember that there are several false truths that are said about BP all the time and one of them is your question. A good BP is not that hard to clean behind and it does not rust out your gun with one firing!! I shoot BP in CAS three times a month and this is on a Saturday for the most part. I never clean my guns when I return home. It's sometimes not until Tuesday and guess what, no problems!! Later David

[Old Ironsights]

OI, where did you get your screens? What do you do with the fines, use them for priming?

Bob

McMaster-Carr, and Yep - among other nefarious actifities... :twisted:

[Boz330]

Boy they are proud of those things.

Bob

[Old Ironsights]

I guess. I didn't figure $12 was that big a deal considering...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#wire-mesh/=22n01k

[Boz330]

That's not the page I came up with on a search. The ones I looked at were nearly $40 each. That is much better.

Bob

[Old Ironsights]

That's not the page I came up with on a search. The ones I looked at were nearly $40 each. That is much better.

Bob

Yeah, just select "Brass" at the top, then choose "Medium Mesh".

40 mesh (40x40) is what I find is the best "middle of the road" 3F.

[c3d4b2]

Here is a link from a site that has some information on sifting smokeless powder that may also be of interest......

http://home.comcast.net/~jesse99/sieving.html

[hamour]

Consensus on the Muzzle Loading Forum, is that Swiss is the cleanest of the Real powders, with Schutzen, KIK, Goex and Graffs all being equal. Elephant is supposed to be the worst.

I personally find that KIK has the best price and is just a bit hotter than goex.

For a lube to shoot roundball patches, the Hoppes Black powder lube and solvent is hard to beat. when you load the RB after the first shot, it cleans the bore as it goes down. Works great for me.