Question about hollow point casting

[arcticbreeze]

For those of you that are casting hollow points, do you reject a boolit for a slight deformation on the inside of the cavity? For instance when I am casting with the Lyman devastator mold (429640), I get perfect fill out of the mold on the outside of the boolit but when looking down in the cavity about 2 out of 5 will not have that sharp edge right at the point of the pin inside the cavity. From the outside of the boolit they are all perfect. I have shot quite a few of them out to 50 yards and cannot say that it is affecting accuracy. Would you guys reject those or not?

[runfiverun]

no, but i would heat the pin up more.

[Bent Ramrod]

I would not reject them. If there was some important shooting impending, like an expensive hunt or a competition, I would select them out and use them for plinking or less critical applications, but I would still shoot them.

Hollow point moulds can be pretty cranky. Typically I get good fill at the top, but there will be the occasional tiny bubble or void at the bottom of the hollow cavity. This might make the boolits a little less accurate, but such trivialities typically get lost in the greater errors of grip, trigger pull, etc.

[fredj338]

I have the same mold, but added a shallower pin. It now throws a 270grHP cat 25-1. Expansion is better at higher vel. & that is why I bought the mold, for a hunting bullet. I weigh all the bullets cast & reject any that deviate more than 3gr up or down from average. The proof is in the shooting so if they shoot, keep using them. Have you tested them for expansion yet? I found the factory HP was too fragile @ vel. o/ 1000fps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-265.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpg

[303Guy]

May I ask how those moulds work? Mine work by nose pouring through a conical funnel thing which acts as a sprew cutter.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-636F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-353F_edited.jpg

It was some of these that did this -

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

These are the actual ones. A close look at the noses reveals some having a central point where the lead stretched before separating.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-326F_edited.jpg

These are straight out the mould. (This was still early days - my moulds have improved since then).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-745F.jpg

My theory was that if there is going to be an imperfection, rather that it be out of the air flow and in the middle where it will have the least effect.

[kbstenberg]

Fredj 338 on your pictures you have 25-1 an 20-1 . I assume those are the lead/tin type. Are these your hunting bullets?
Sincerely Kevin

[runfiverun]

303, they are base poured and have a pin that goes through the bottom and fills the hole in the mold halves.
the pin extends into the cavity to form the h-point.
it also usually has a tab on the handle so you can twist the pin to lock it into place.

[dubber123]

The last time I cast HP's, I took a small block of steel, and drilled a hole part way through it.

I put this block on a hot plate near the lead pot, and used the hole in it to stand up the pin while casting. It keeps the pin handy, and most importantly, hot.

It seemed to work very well. You can't leave the pin in it and walk away for very long without the handle getting too hot, but it worked great at a normal casting pace.

[geargnasher]

For those of you that are casting hollow points, do you reject a boolit for a slight deformation on the inside of the cavity? For instance when I am casting with the Lyman devastator mold (429640), I get perfect fill out of the mold on the outside of the boolit but when looking down in the cavity about 2 out of 5 will not have that sharp edge right at the point of the pin inside the cavity. From the outside of the boolit they are all perfect. I have shot quite a few of them out to 50 yards and cannot say that it is affecting accuracy. Would you guys reject those or not?

Depends on how good the boolits NEED to be. If accuracy is all you're worried about, shoot something easier to cast. If your imperfect boolits shoot well, shoot them! But if you are loading for terminal performance and paying close attention to case prep, powder charge consistency, alloy hardness/composition, velocity and velocity deviations, and a hundred other factors to make yourself absolutely confident in your ammo, I would worry about the bottom of the hp cavity a lot because that can have a great deal of effect on whether the boolit blows the petals off or mushrooms. The "Devastator" series was designed with spuds that are shaped to be friendly with ww-based (read: brittle, antimony-containing) alloys which tend to fragment when cast in the old deep/narrow hp moulds. What I have found is that if your alloy is just the least little bit too brittle and/or too hard and the base of the hp cavity has a bubble or imperfect fillout, the tip explodes and the boolit loses about 1/3 of its mass. If I add some lead to my ww and keep the bhn around 10 they mushroom nicely and stay together at medium velocities. If I want high-velocity loads at near max listed loads, I have to really watch the alloy, in fact I use storebought Lyman #2, water-dropped, and unless the hp cavities are perfect they tend to fragment erratically. I only engage in this craziness for when I really need a fast, long-range, accurate boolit.

Use Runfiverun's advice, get the pin hotter and keep it hot. I made a holder out of coathanger wire that holds my spuds in a low and gentle propane torch flame anytime I have to pause more than a few seconds during the casting process. If it isn't quite hot you will have pits, voids, and gaps in the boolit mouth.

Me personally, I use hps in general because they don't have to be driven at mach 8 with their noses on fire to get good expansion and clean kills. That means softer, more malleable alloys can be used in the medium loads and those little imperfections just don't matter that much.

Hope this helps,

Gear

[WHITETAIL]

My vote is for the pin to be hotter.:roll:

[Bret4207]

The proof is in the shooting, but 5R5 has the scoop on the problem. Keep the pin hot.

[fredj338]

Fredj 338 on your pictures you have 25-1 an 20-1 . I assume those are the lead/tin type. Are these your hunting bullets?
Sincerely Kevin

Yes Kevin, I wanted a good lead bullet for hunting. I like te results I am getting w/ 25-1 or even 30-1 @ 1200fps+. The smaller cup point initiates expansion well & the base of the bullet just smashes. I am working w/ Erik @ HPMS w/ a faceted pin. The facted pin gives skives for the bullet to expand upon. The first results were w/ a RCBS 147gr mold w/ a 4pt pin. The expansion is identical from 1050fps-1200fps+. If he can figure a way to make one for the Dev. mold, I want to try that in my 44 as well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/9mm-136-1200.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/136hp-1050.jpg

[jdgabbard]

All you guys make me jealous with your HP molds. Either ship me one or stop...[smilie=1:

Btw, Fred. How do you like the way he does those cramer conversion??? Do they drop from the mold easily without banging on them constantly??? I'm thinking on getting a mold done by him.

[arcticbreeze]

I have the same mold, but added a shallower pin. It now throws a 270grHP cat 25-1. Expansion is better at higher vel. & that is why I bought the mold, for a hunting bullet. I weigh all the bullets cast & reject any that deviate more than 3gr up or down from average. The proof is in the shooting so if they shoot, keep using them. Have you tested them for expansion yet? I found the factory HP was too fragile @ vel. o/ 1000fps.

I have not tested for expansion yet. I want to get my load right first. I also have had additional pins made for mine including a smaller pin and a flat point. Mine with the smaller pin also casts at 270, 273 gas checked and lubed. I wonder if the same person made yours that did mine. Even though I have not tested yet for expansion, that is what I expected. That is why I had the smaller one made. Here are some pictures of my mold and pins.

Lg Cavity
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=30&pictureid=865

Sm Cavity
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=30&pictureid=864

Flat Point
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=30&pictureid=863

[fredj338]

All you guys make me jealous with your HP molds. Either ship me one or stop...[smilie=1:

Btw, Fred. How do you like the way he does those cramer conversion??? Do they drop from the mold easily without banging on them constantly??? I'm thinking on getting a mold done by him.

THe Cramer mold is a great little trick for casting HP. It's the only way to get multi cavity HP molds. The more rounded or pointed the pin, the easier the release. I have another pin that has a flat point & the bullet wants to stick quite a bit. The faceted pin drops right off. Erik is making me a 5 faceted pin for the Lyman 452347 in a double cav. I am hoping it give the same expansion qualities as the 9mm but @ 850fps or so.
AB, that doesn't look like Erik's work, but good work just the same. That bullet design is a good shooter out of every 44mag I have tried it in. I like the bullet softer for hunting & plan on casting some out of lino or ww water dropped to make a good shooting non expanding cup point for a backpacking woods load for my M629 snub. It should penetrate like crazy & the cup point will still offer some tissue damage @ 1000fps.

[arcticbreeze]

AB, that doesn't look like Erik's work, but good work just the same. That bullet design is a good shooter out of every 44mag I have tried it in. I like the bullet softer for hunting & plan on casting some out of lino or ww water dropped to make a good shooting non expanding cup point for a backpacking woods load for my M629 snub. It should penetrate like crazy & the cup point will still offer some tissue damage @ 1000fps.

The pins are Erik's work. It is the stock Devastator mold, he made me the pins. He offers both his standard pin conversion with the interchangeable pins or this one that does not require mold modification. The original pin was gone.

[fredj338]

The pins are Erik's work. It is the stock Devastator mold, he made me the pins. He offers both his standard pin conversion with the interchangeable pins or this one that does not require mold modification. The original pin was gone.

The handles are diff. than mine & the collar looks a bit diff. as well. Erik's a good guy, does great work.