People turning thier noses up to amatuer cast lead

[sheepdog]

So where I'm at there isn't alot of casters doing lead. In fact in a city with a metro population of 6.3 million I've only found two other casters, and only through here. The guys at the shops I trade with know I do it but not much on how its done. Few times I've brought them 50 lubed boolits here, 50 there. Everyone kind turned their noses up at them. They'd rather pay for Winchester projectiles or the like.

Ok to each their own. But been telling them "save up some lead, one day you'll be wanting them" .

So now all the sudden everyones wanting my boolits (someone actually brought me a dead car battery and asked for 10k .355s) and surprise surprise no one has usable lead. :groner:

Apparently word has got out that my boolits happen to be pretty darn accurate and no projectile cost helps pad the increased cost of primers.

[EMC45]

I've had the same thing happen to me. Had reloading friends tell me either they will only shoot jacketed/plated or they would buy all their cast online. Now it's a different story when you can't find them or they have skyrocketed in price.

[sqlbullet]

Lots of people I know have prejudice related to overblown stories about the horrors of leaded bores.

But, same here. Lately I have been teaching a lot of guys how to cast their own. Curious if it actually sticks.

[sheepdog]

I understand if you don't want lead for defensive handloads but for casual target shooting its a no brainer. Told them "Sure I'll make you some, 500 cast boolits for a box of primers". That ended that pretty quick.

[kyle623]

are you using battery lead to cast?

[Trey45]

Years ago before i reloaded ammo, or even thought about casting my own boolits, I fit in the category of bullet snob. I outright refused to shoot anything but jacketed bullets in my guns, I've learned a lot since then.

[sheepdog]

are you using battery lead to cast?

Heck no! But people who half listened to me before about saving lead figured "dim dare is lead, I get me some bullets from dat guy at the shop". :eek:

Now they're looking for the right lead now.... at the same shops I get my lead from. :groner:

Apparently you can lead a horse to water and make them drink as long as its your water they're drinking.

[mike in co]

I understand if you don't want lead for defensive handloads but for casual target shooting its a no brainer. Told them "Sure I'll make you some, 500 cast boolits for a box of primers". That ended that pretty quick.



lol.........there may(?) be better(xtp/gs).....but lots of things have been shot with lead boolits for over 200 yrs.........


mike in co

[DLCTEX]

The only two guys in my area I know who currently shoot lead buy them and complain about leading. They both own Louis lead removers and don't want to discuss not loading to magnum velocities, and when discussing bullet fit and lubes you get a shrug and, "that's what they make". One of them recently stated he may have to look into bullet casting, so I'll shut up to protect my WW supply. I was already competing with a shot maker, but beat him out by making daily trips to the tire shop to pick up weights and buy Cokes for the help (weights are free).

[sheepdog]

lol.........there may(?) be better(xtp/gs).....but lots of things have been shot with lead boolits for over 200 yrs.........


mike in co

Yeah but you know how primitive lead is. You got to be a caveman to shoot cast lead in an auto much less a rifle. You'd think these guys thought NASA helped hornady design bullets, like the gun is going to vaporize if lead touches the barrel. Then they whine when they wear their barrels out with steel jacketed surplus ammo. Whatever, now I just smile and nod and watch them make Sierra rich.

[JSnover]

someone actually brought me a dead car battery and asked for 10k .355s

10,000 boolits from one battery, eh? That would have been a neat trick!

[GabbyM]

Had a fellow tell me last week "nobody hunts with cast bullets". :groner:

[jonk]

Gabby,

I guess there's a sucker born every minute, eh?

To be fair though more people DO use jacketed because that's what they buy at the store. :(

A buddy of mine is willing to try my bullets and has on a few occasions found them more accurate than jacketed- namely in the M1 carbine and Gewehr 88. He's a collector but wants to wring all the performance he can from a gun. If the cast bullet does that best, he's fine with it- otherwise he has deep pockets and is willing to buy premium Sierras etc.

Another freind doesn't care what it is so long as it goes boom bang pop etc.

Finally my last good shooting buddy likes cast from 'traditional' calibers like 45/70, .45 colt, etc., but shuns them in other rounds.

So I have gotten a few to try some but none of them has started casting yet.

[sheepdog]

10,000 boolits from one battery, eh? That would have been a neat trick!

Sure he thought every pound was usable lead or Id cover the slack. You know the type, ones that think your reloads and your time are free.

[Beekeeper]

Sheepdog,
Your customer sounds an awful lot like my brother.
He lives in your area.
Wouldnt touch a cast boolit much less collect lead.
Got aa e-mail from him the other day asking me to ship him 10000 45 acp 200 grainers as he couldn't buy them ther in the big D.

beekeeper

[Jon]

I've talked to a few people at the club about casting but decided that I shouldn't try to sell it too hard. Finding lead is bad enough already without the added competition.

[Nora]

You'd think the math would speak for it's self in the big picture. "Even if" you still only hunted with the J word at $28 / 100 so be it. With practice and plinking with the same thing that's $280 + tax /1000. Now on the other hand, if one were to practice and plink (the gun will still go bang) with cast..... Let's see, $.01 per boolit, and if used $.03 per gc. That would be $40 /1000.
Hmmmm $280 vs $40..... $.28 each vs $.04 each
Oh never mind it's to confusing, think I'll just have to fire up the pot and cast a few to clear my mind. :cbpour:

[Shiloh]

I've talked to a few people at the club about casting but decided that I shouldn't try to sell it too hard. Finding lead is bad enough already without the added competition.

You are right!!
Too many are behind the curve trying to catch up. This puts more pressure on what sources of bullet material there are. You don't know how many folks have turned there noses up at me casting and shooting lead boolits.

Now that once available bullts no longer are, they get interested. Some I'll help. The one guy who voted for Obama wantys me to teach him about reloading and casting. Not a chance!!

Shiloh

[sheepdog]

The one guy who voted for Obama wantys me to teach him about reloading and casting. Not a chance!!

Shiloh

Lucky hes not here. Think I'd let him get the lead real hot then tell him to drop a couple ice cubes into the bottom of the production pot "to water quench" while I'd run for cover. :razz:

[NVcurmudgeon]

One of my casting friends sicced one of the kind of bums you all have mentioned onto me. This turkey wanted me to cast boolits for a Martini-Henry using MY metal. He generously said that I could use his mould! He also admitted that he "didn't want to breathe all that garbage." I told him my lung specialist wouldn't allow me to cast any more.

[Huntducks]

I have a huge but out of the way tire shop lots of commercial stuff he always gave me his WW 5-6-7 buckets at a time I always buy my tires from him same with brake work so on, I still have not smellted down the last 6 buckets I got from him 2mo ago went in last week and he said he has a guying buying them now $20 a bucket. He said because i'm a good customer he would set aside 1 bucket a mo for me, I was in a place were I buy my reloading supplys friday two guys came in with a PU bed full of buckets of WW sold them to the guy at the store I asked the guy if he bought from my tire shop he said ya paid $20 a bucket but he thinks he offered to much as he sold them for what worked out to $24 a bucket they made a total of $80 for 2 guys and 6 hours work + cost of gas.

I hardly knew anyone who was casting in So Cal 2 years ago now I know 4 guys who just started in the last year or less.

[oldhickory]

I don't even bother mentioning that I cast my own anymore, I figure it saves me a lot of headaches in the long run.

[sheepdog]

I don't even bother mentioning that I cast my own anymore, I figure it saves me a lot of headaches in the long run.

Yeah I'm starting to think the same. Everyone swears up and down the lead will wear down my barrels cause they think the steel clips get melted down with it. You'd be amazed the things I hear.
I actually had someone tell me they "heard" someone blew up a 357 by shooting 38s out of it and due to lead build up in the cylinders once they shot 357 out of it there was too much build up, which lead to a blown cylinder. :veryconfu

[targetshootr]

The one guy who voted for Obama wantys me to teach him about reloading and casting. Not a chance!!
Shiloh

Explain to us what good that does. Isn't your party already small enough? Pretty soon you'll be able to hold your conventions inside a phone booth.

[TREERAT]

every one said what crap I was shooting when I used wolf .223, now they have seen the light. to bad they cant even get wolf ammo now. I do not feel sorry for them!

[fredj338]

Here in So.Cal there are few admitted gun owners & even fewer bullet caster. I have all the gear & used to cast all my bullets. Then the kids came, shot less, so just started buying them at gunshows or where ever. Now the costs of bullets is just stupidly expensive. I have dusted off my casting gear & have been back into it. That of course means I have to start scrounging again. I did find a local tire shop that is now letting me have a 100# bucket free after I bought 5 of them the first time in. I'm sitting on about 1000# of alloy now but feel I need more since Kalif. is banning lead wts. after this Dec.

[jhrosier]

If someone figures out for themself that they want to handload or cast boolits, I will help them get started.
I've given up on trying to recruit folks.
I go to the range and shoot as much as I care to, cheap and fun.
The slow learners are apparently sitting home watching teewee.
One of my co-workers complains bitterly about the nearly $100 per box that he pays for .375 Ruger ammo, but won't buy a set of dies so that he can use my equipment.
That's OK, he has cable.:confused:

Jack

[crabo]

So where I'm at there isn't alot of casters doing lead. In fact in a city with a metro population of 6.3 million I've only found two other casters, and only through here.

How about offering to buy dinner for all the boolit casters in the D/FW area? More might show up than you think...... just a thought

[Jim]

Had a guy ask me the other day how much I'd charge him for reloads. Says he wants to save money on ammo costs like me. Not a snowball's chance in a brick oven.

[TREERAT]

every time someone wants lead bullits from me, they want me to use my lead, my tools, my time. and offer me 10.00 per hundred. because some how lead bullits are inferioer to jacket. they are out of there flippin mind.

I only have about 80 lbs of lead left, AND I AM NOT SHARRING!!!!!!

a lead bullit company has moved into my area, and they have made the rounds to EVERY tire place within 50 miles and made commitments with them to buy all ww they get. so I am screwed!!!

[JSnover]

Had a guy ask me the other day how much I'd charge him for reloads. Says he wants to save money on ammo costs like me. Not a snowball's chance in a brick oven.

I've had a few people ask if I'll reload for them. Honestly, I'd be happy to do it but none of them are interested after I tell them how much the dies will cost. I guess if it's not absolutely free it's over priced:roll:

[Crash_Corrigan]

At this point do we really want to encourage more shooters to cast lead boolits?

Is the supply of low cost lead rapidly dwindling? Do we want more competition for this dwindling resource?

I know we like to turn more folks onto this beautiful sport but lets hold off for a while. The supplies of lead around here are tough and getting tougher. I do not want any more casters in competetion with me. I admit to being selfish. So what. If others cannot get j word bullets and primers then that means more primers for us!

[chaos]

every one said what crap I was shooting when I used wolf .223, now they have seen the light. to bad they cant even get wolf ammo now. I do not feel sorry for them!


Seen the light with WOLF AMMO in .223?!?!?!?!?! Are you High? Put down the crack pipe son.

If I had some wolf ammo, I'd give it to you for free. Along with a sling shot to lob it at your targets...its more accurate that way.

All 4 of my Ar's are MOA guns with quality ammo ............ With the wolf....... All of them are scatterguns.

Wolf is dumpster fodder of the first degree.

[Shiloh]

Explain to us what good that does. Isn't your party already small enough? Pretty soon you'll be able to hold your conventions inside a phone booth.

Who's my party???

Shiloh

[rhead]

If you want to learn how to cast I will gladly teach you. If you want me to cast for you my equipment rental is 10 pounds of lead nets 5 pounds of bullets, my time is 5 pounds of bullets cost either 500 primers or one pound of powder.

[HeavyMetal]

I must be a little ahead of the game!

Have a couple guys I work with that shoot. Two of them have no problem paying me for ammo and, because they are not even quartly shooters, I don't mind. They shoot rounds I already have dies for.

Two others hired in last yr and one bought 300 win mag dies so I could show how. the other bought a bunch of reloading gear ( brothers by the way) and I have been showing them how to do it!

So far so good!

[PatMarlin]

since Kalif. is banning lead wts. after this Dec.

Where did you learn that?

[dakotashooter2]

I outright refused to shoot anything but jacketed bullets in my guns,
I have the similar but opposite affliction.

10 k of bullets. Thats only 30-40 hrs at the pot. I'd say $1000 dollars worth. Im afraid his 60# battery is about 165#s light though. Aw what the heck. Be generous. LOL

[sheepdog]

Seen the light with WOLF AMMO in .223?!?!?!?!?! Are you High? Put down the crack pipe son.

If I had some wolf ammo, I'd give it to you for free. Along with a sling shot to lob it at your targets...its more accurate that way.

All 4 of my Ar's are MOA guns with quality ammo ............ With the wolf....... All of them are scatterguns.

Wolf is dumpster fodder of the first degree.

Ez killer, to each his own. Theres a time place and ammo for everything. I too only us quality ammo in my ARs (mostly black hills) but I have a ton of Wolf for my AKs. Wolf isn't crap, its just an 8.5 on a scale where theres alot of 9+ choices. I'd still shoot Wolf out of my ARs before that PMC bronze crap.

[Paul]

lol.........there may(?) be better(xtp/gs).....but lots of things have been shot with lead boolits for over 200 yrs.........


mike in co


Hey, Sheepdog and Mike

Make sure guns loaded for protection (shooting a person) are loaded with 100% Factory Ammo. Or else the lawyers are gona hang you. Read some case law. If you loaded it, then you pre-meitadated it somehow. (spelling went bad)

But in a war, cast, handloaded might be in my guns !!

Paul

[Ole]

Anytime I tell someone how much my loaded rounds cost they get really interested in me making some for them.

I always tell them they are welcome to come to my house and use my reloading stuff, but no way am I ever making reloads for someone unless it's an emergency and they are a really good friend. (I gave a good buddy 50 rounds of .380 a while back because he couldn't find any in town and had just bought a new gun that he couldn't find ammo for)

[Recluse]

Hey, Sheepdog and Mike

Make sure guns loaded for protection (shooting a person) are loaded with 100% Factory Ammo. Or else the lawyers are gona hang you. Read some case law. If you loaded it, then you pre-meitadated it somehow. (spelling went bad)

Paul

Not in Texas.

:coffee:

[stubshaft]

Lucky hes not here. Think I'd let him get the lead real hot then tell him to drop a couple ice cubes into the bottom of the production pot "to water quench" while I'd run for cover. :razz:


Just tell him that real men don't need no steenking mould handles!:holysheep

[dromia]

Oh come on gentlemen. Everyone knows that jacketed bullets are an "improvement".

[Slow Elk 45/70]

:groner: Wiil they never learn? :groner:Maybe when it is to late:groner:[smilie=b:

[Buckshot]

...............In all my time reloading and casting I think I've had only 3-4 people voice any interest in either. In each case they wanted to know about it all at once like I was going to do a Mr Spock mind meld and just do a brain to brain download. Finally figuring out that there was a learning curve of some time, and that while either casting or reloading is straighforward in some respects, but also can be knowledge intensive in others they become fidgity.

You can see them doing the mental gymnastics right there in front of you. They're balancing TV on one hand, and reloading on the other. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, TV reloading, TV reloading, ah thanks a lot and I might check it out. Right :-)

A friend of mine told me sometime back (it was before all this shortage stuff erupted) that he had one of the range guys ask him about him doing some casting for him so he could shoot in the range's "Cowboy Silhuette". Bob quoted him a price and said the other guy was startled and said he thought cast lead was supposed to be so cheap. If it cost that much why Bob bothered with it? Bob said it was cheap, but he already had all the equipment, plus when he did it for himself he didn't count the time, and the guy went off talking to himself.

...............Buckshot

[fredj338]

Where did you learn that?
You can Google it, but here is one article. I also confirmed it w. the guy I get my 110# buckets from. He wants me to come in & make him a deal on all his brand new stuff in inventory. Now we are talking, nice clean ww to smelt.:drinks:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wheels21-2008aug21,0,6289041.story

[oldhickory]

every time someone wants lead bullits from me, they want me to use my lead, my tools, my time. and offer me 10.00 per hundred. because some how lead bullits are inferioer to jacket. they are out of there flippin mind.

I only have about 80 lbs of lead left, AND I AM NOT SHARRING!!!!!!

a lead bullit company has moved into my area, and they have made the rounds to EVERY tire place within 50 miles and made commitments with them to buy all ww they get. so I am screwed!!!


If you're in driving range of central Pa, I'll share a few hundred lbs. of WW.

[Tom W.]

A guy at work found that I had a .45 and wondered where I got ammo for it. I told him that I cast and loaded my own and have done so for years.He asked how much I'd charge for a box and I told him $1 a round. He almost choked. A bit later He asked if I had a new "Cheaper than Dirt" catalog, which I gladly brought to him. He looked at the current prices of the .45 acp listings, and then went on line to order some. Today he told me that he went to the website and could find no ammo.. all was out of stock.

What a surprise.....



I told him I'd bring him 4 rounds to try........

[waksupi]

Hey, Sheepdog and Mike

Make sure guns loaded for protection (shooting a person) are loaded with 100% Factory Ammo. Or else the lawyers are gona hang you. Read some case law. If you loaded it, then you pre-meitadated it somehow. (spelling went bad)

But in a war, cast, handloaded might be in my guns !!

Paul

Paul, the general consensus is the no handloads thing is a non-starter. Prosecution would be more likely if you have something such as Black Talons, rather than what you shoot at the range all the time.
Check the archives.

[chaos]

Ez killer, to each his own. Theres a time place and ammo for everything. I too only us quality ammo in my ARs (mostly black hills) but I have a ton of Wolf for my AKs. Wolf isn't crap, its just an 8.5 on a scale where theres alot of 9+ choices. I'd still shoot Wolf out of my ARs before that PMC bronze crap.


No sir, I disagree. Wolf works well in the commie guns as you have stated, but they were not built to be as accurate in the first place. More of a loose tolerence thing to aid in function....in the Kalashinikov designs anyhow. So what is the real difference between a 5 inch and 6 in group out of one of those anyhow?

Wolf .223 an 8.5 on a scale of 10? Where does throwing rocks stack up agaist the wolf?

Maybe your guns like it better than mine. I kind of equate feeding an Ar15 some Wolf ammo, is like trying to fuel your Corvette with Kerosene. I've yet to see one that would shoot Bowling ball sized groups at 100 yards. Maybe I should close both eyes right before I squeze the round off.

A, time, place and ammo for everything........... Do you handload your reject or bent slugs as to help aid in duplicating Wolf performance?

[Recluse]

I've never had much luck with Wolf anything--ammo or primers. In all honesty, I haven't tried much of it. I do not own an AR and refuse to own an AR. I had all of the black guns I could stand while serving Uncle Sam. Only two exceptions might possibly be an MP5 (which I really enjoyed) and a G-3.

However, back in the 80's, I used to get good deals on PMC back when it was in the camo boxes. I would buy it in .38 and 9mm, primarily for the brass as it was very good brass back then. Haven't fired a new box of factory anything in over ten years.

Reloading for other people? Won't do it anymore. Not going to waste my time doing for them what they're either too lazy, too stingy or too stupid to do. They're on their own.

Casting for other people? Other than fellow casters, I'll do it on rare occasion and very grudgingly. Nowadays it would cost someone some primers or powder PLUS the equivalent lead. That, so far, has discouraged every single would-be freeloader that's approached me at the shooting ranges I frequent.

I do like Tom's "$1 per round" solution. Make 'em pay or play--choice is theirs.

:coffee:

[oldhickory]

A couple of years ago when Wolf ammo was cheap, ($99.00 @1000) I bought 1000 rds of .223 62gr. It all went "bang" and I didn't have to pick up the cases, that's the only good thing I can say about it.

I've always had good luck with PMC though, the .22lr ammo and in particular their .22 Sidewinder ammo. Accurate as match ammo and at just over $10.00 a brick of 500. A while back there was a company known as Hansen peddling ammo, don't remember where it was made, but their .22rf stuff was so waxy it jammed my autoloaders in about 12 rds. .22 revolvers...I had white spots on my thumb from trying to jam that stuff in the chambers after a few shots!


I won't cast for anyone else, in fact I don't even tell people I do it. As for reloading, I reload one box of 30/06 about once every other year for a neighbor, and he keeps it hush-hush.

[mpmarty]

I tried Wolf ammo and while it "worked" in my AR and AKs the accuracy was better in the AKs than in the AR. Go figure. Now the Wolf primers are a whole different story. I've been using the LP Wolf primers in 10mm, 45acp and mild rifle loads for over a year. They are just a tad bit softer than Winchester primers and are brass colored not plated silver but they feed in my dillon just fine and I've yet to have a misfire or hangfire with them. I'm quite pleased with my 30,000 Wolf primers thank you.

[JSnover]

A while back there was a company known as Hansen peddling ammo, don't remember where it was made, but their .22rf stuff was so waxy it jammed my autoloaders in about 12 rds. .22 revolvers...I had white spots on my thumb from trying to jam that stuff in the chambers after a few shots!

Sounds like the "Rooster" brand from a few years ago. Russian, I tihnk.....

[JSnover]

Make sure guns loaded for protection (shooting a person) are loaded with 100% Factory Ammo. Or else the lawyers are gona hang you. Read some case law. If you loaded it, then you pre-meitadated it somehow. (spelling went bad)

The so-called experts get quiet when asked for case law to back up the CW. I'd be interested in reading some case law on handloaded defensive ammo but I can't find any.

[sheepdog]

Well Chaos I get cloverleaf groups with Wolf at a 100 yards with my lowest quality AK on iron sights so I think its acceptable for the price. On the AR I wouldn't trust my life to that toy in a million years even with the best ammo but if you do fine. If you want to argue the quality of wolf vs us made brass fine, I'm sure theres an ongoing argument on ar15.com or snipershide waiting for you. That is not what this is about.

One thing I was surprised by is that the few people I have let shoot my reloads with castings have started seeing the light. They're not ready to stock up yet but they've been vocal that I'm on to something here. Am I shooting myself in the foot by telling others? Maybe but I'm not one to try and put one over on my fellow 2nd amendment enthusiasts but I figure never hurts having people the equipment you don't have for the odd boolit size swap or die swap.

On factory loads vs defensive handloads I figure they can come after you either way. I know someone personally in town that shot a guy with 9mm hydrashoks in a CHL situation with no death involved but serious crippling damage. Even though now these are fairly vanillia loads they tried to pull that crazy load stuff on him. He was found not guilty of any wrongdoing but shows if they want to come after you theres no formula, no guaranty that what you do is kosher for any situation. In the end you pray the 12 citizens assigned to weigh your intentions and circumstances are clear headed, fair handed, honest non-prejudiced people that will do the right thing.

[jdgabbard]

Lots of people I know have prejudice related to overblown stories about the horrors of leaded bores.

But, same here. Lately I have been teaching a lot of guys how to cast their own. Curious if it actually sticks.

A lot of people think the same thing about Reloading. Every dealer tells people "Don't use reloads, their bad for your gun."

[oldtoolsniper]

My best friend and hunting partner of many years was convinced I was crazy when I started reloading. After his first trip out west to shoot prairie dogs he decided I was not crazy and he is now a reloader. We just came back from a trip and I shot 300 rounds from one position and we had five shooters doing the same thing. I cast boolits thanks to this site and everything I have learned here. He is coming around to this as well. I buy a lee mold at $18 and pour my own. If I can't get that boolit to work in that gun I spent $18 dollars to find out. If I bought jacketed and I can’t dial in a load that works with that boolit I spent more than the mold cost me and have left over boolits that I won’t use. If I cast them and can’t dial in a load I just toss em back in the pot to become something else. Seems to be a no brainer to me.

[TREERAT]

I made the first comment about the wolf ammo in this thread, can we please drop it, people have there own experiences and prefrences. lets not argue about it, just let it go! there are some VERY intelegent people on this sight, so lets not lower ourselfs to what goes on in many other forums! some of them have gotten so childish about this crap I refuse to return.
thank you!

[451whitworth]

I've had a few people ask if I'll reload for them. Honestly, I'd be happy to do it but none of them are interested after I tell them how much the dies will cost. I guess if it's not absolutely free it's over priced:roll:

same here. in the last few months i have had 9 different people stop by my place of work to ask me to reload ammo for them. mainly .45 ACP, 9MM, .40 S&W, .38 Special. at first i told them that i wasn't into that because of liability reasons and not one of these guys had saved any of their brass from their factory ammo. they were very persistant and kept badgering me. so i finally told them if they rounded up the components they could come by my place and i would show them how to do it and THEY could load all they wanted using my press, dies, scales, etc. not one guy has bothered me since.

[EMC45]

same here. in the last few months i have had 9 different people stop by my place of work to ask me to reload ammo for them. mainly .45 ACP, 9MM, .40 S&W, .38 Special. at first i told them that i wasn't into that because of liability reasons and not one of these guys had saved any of their brass from their factory ammo. they were very persistant and kept badgering me. so i finally told them if they rounded up the components they could come by my place and i would show them how to do it and THEY could load all they wanted using my press, dies, scales, etc. not one guy has bothered me since.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life! Not a whole lot of folks wanna learn how to fish!

[TAWILDCATT]

You all do know the law on selling ammo.you cannot sell ammo with out a FFL.then you have to pay federal income tax plus state tax and get insurance,and you may have to have a separete building to do your loading.
you can load without the license IF they supply the brass, primers,powder,and bullets.you then are a laborer.you want to go thru that.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Crash_Corrigan]

I tried that for a while. People wanting 4 box of .380 6 of 9 MM and another dozen 357's. It was all good until it came time to deliver the goods. Not only did they want the ammo at cost {my cost} but they wanted me to deliver the goods to them on their schedule.

I made a few bucks but when a big order came and the guy renaged after I had made up the rounds and was delivering the goods, I decided to double the price and get at least a 50% deposit when they order not to have to go through that crapola again.

Funny thing, nobody wants to let me make a couple of bucks to assemble a box of ammo, nobody wants to supply the brass and nobody wants to pay for the brass which I supply nor return the free brass I gave 'em.

I am a happy camper, no liability worries about some flake blowing up his gun and blaming me and looking for a pot of gold, no deadlines and no deliveries.

I make, I shoot it and I will not sell nor give ammo to anybody. It is not worth the hassle.

[evan price]

The so-called experts get quiet when asked for case law to back up the CW. I'd be interested in reading some case law on handloaded defensive ammo but I can't find any.

State of New Hampshire V. James Kennedy
From the Massad Ayoob files:

The reload in the gun was a 200 grain Speer JHP, loaded to duplicate the 1000 fps from a 5” barrel then advertised by Speer for the same bullet in loaded cartridge configuration.

This was the first case where I saw the argument, “Why wasn’t regular ammunition deadly enough for you,” used by opposing counsel. They charged Kennedy with aggravated assault. They made a large issue out of his use of handloads, suggesting that they were indicative of a reckless man obsessed with causing maximum damage.




State of New Jersey V. Daniel Bias
Also from the Massad Ayoob files:
Centered around if Bias' wife's death was a suicide or a murder, based upon wether or not the light target handloads in Bias' revolver would leave GSR on his wife's body at the distance he said the shooting happened. State tested the weapon with factory .38 +P ammo and claimed that for no GSR to be on the body the shot had to be from beyond the distance Bias claimed. Bias stated that his revolver was loaded with a minimum load of Bullseye and a 115-grain lead slug in +P headstamped cases.



It has happened. It's rare. But don't say NEVER.

[evan price]

I tried that for a while. People wanting 4 box of .380 6 of 9 MM and another dozen 357's. It was all good until it came time to deliver the goods. Not only did they want the ammo at cost {my cost} but they wanted me to deliver the goods to them on their schedule.

I made a few bucks but when a big order came and the guy renaged after I had made up the rounds and was delivering the goods, I decided to double the price and get at least a 50% deposit when they order not to have to go through that crapola again.

Funny thing, nobody wants to let me make a couple of bucks to assemble a box of ammo, nobody wants to supply the brass and nobody wants to pay for the brass which I supply nor return the free brass I gave 'em.

I am a happy camper, no liability worries about some flake blowing up his gun and blaming me and looking for a pot of gold, no deadlines and no deliveries.

I make, I shoot it and I will not sell nor give ammo to anybody. It is not worth the hassle.


FYI:

Making ammunition (including reloading) or manufacturing the components of ammunition (including the boolit) for anything other than your own personal use requires:
1. An 06 FFL from BATF which costs $30 for 3 years.
2. Registration with the US State Department as a "Maker/exporter of war materials" even though you have no plans or intention of EVER exporting anything; the registration fee is a sliding schedule and starts at $2250.00 per year even though nothing is exported- and this fee doesn't get you an export license or anything, it's just the cost to have your name in the books. This is called "ITAR".

If you load for yourself, no problems.
If you have some buddies come over to use your press with their components, no problem.
If your buddies give you a thousand pieces of brass, and you reload it for them using their components or they pay you for the cost of the components, no problem (i think).
If your buddies give you a thousand pieces of brass, you dump it in the common bucket you keep all that brass caliber in and give them back a thousand loaded rounds from whatever brass you picked out- now you are a commercial reloader and subject to the 06 FFL and ITAR registration.
If your buddies come to you with nothing and you sell them a thousand rounds for any price you ae now a commercial reloader and subject to the above.

Plus the significant liability insurance required, zoning considerations, EPA regulations, etc. which suddenly become VERY ONEROUS when it goes from a personal hobby to a "business".

This is why I passed up a deal for a Magma MasterCaster and a dozen sets of moulds.

[303Guy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So where I'm at there isn't alot of casters doing lead. In fact in a city with a metro population of 6.3 million I've only found two other casters, and only through here.First off, my country bumpkin background makes me ask, why would anyone want to live in a ..... never mind!:mrgreen:
Casting takes intelligence - it's that simple! Been to the movies lately? Seen anything intelligent lately? Ever? Need I say more? :mrgreen:

OK, I have just come onto this thread and it's a bit long and I haven't read through it - sorry![smilie=1:

I live in a place where folks fish a lot and this puts a lot of pressure on the competion for wheel weights! I have to scrounge lost sinkers! :(

[Shiloh]

I used to get asked several times a year if I would load ammo for someone. The answer is always NO! Load your own. I would recommend them getting started as there would come a time when ammo supplies could get tight. The response, "Yeah Right"

Now, with the shortage of ammo It has increased. The answer is still NO!! But now, I'm the bad guy. Even it they did start, there are no primers or bulk components.

Shiloh

[looseprojectile]

a guy I know sold me four boxes of Sierra 165 grain HPBT Gameking bullets.
He wanted 30 carbine ammo. I told him I had half a coffee can of carbine bullets and he should load some. He said "I dont want to load em I just want to shoot em and leave the brass on the ground. He is one of those that has deep pockets and believes that it is beneath his dignity to load such fodder.
He does, however, load target loads for milsurps to impress the competition.
I was dumbfounded, [happens a lot with me] I didn't even suggest that he cast carbine boolits with my mould.
I just sent him away with my $112.00 and continued loading cast for my 375 H&H magnum.
I will probably use the Gamekings in .308 loads in the G-3 for accuracy testing.
I suspect he will eventually find some carbine ammo to waste and wish him well.
Even with 28 cent bullets those .308 reloads will cost me around forty cents each. I have .308 milsurp that cost me 4.2 cents a round.
I don't see any end to the madness. People are scared. I'm not!.

Life is good

[oldhickory]

If it don't launch out of the barrel at 3200fps, my brother wants nothing to do with it! I've been telling the guy he needs to start casting and storing components, but my words fall on deaf ears..."Don't have time, don't want to be bothered with it, I got better things to do, I ain't shooti'n cast junk!" He hasn't felt the squeeze quite yet, but it's coming! He can learn to cast while I supervise with a cold beer.:drinks:

[sheepdog]

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life! Not a whole lot of folks wanna learn how to fish!

Yeah thats all great til they all want to fish in your pond ;)

[Storydude]

I tell all the "Money Snobs" that only fire "preimum factory ammo" that you'll spend more in 30 seconds at the Dillon site than you will in a year at the funcenter.


I'm still hoping for one of Mr Deep Pockets to take me up on that offer......SO I can get it from him for pennies later :)

[sheepdog]

First off, my country bumpkin background makes me ask, why would anyone want to live in a ..... never mind!:mrgreen:
Casting takes intelligence - it's that simple! Been to the movies lately? Seen anything intelligent lately? Ever? Need I say more? :mrgreen:

OK, I have just come onto this thread and it's a bit long and I haven't read through it - sorry![smilie=1:

I live in a place where folks fish a lot and this puts a lot of pressure on the competion for wheel weights! I have to scrounge lost sinkers! :(

I was born here but if I wasn't I'd move to Texas anyway. Hell most of us don't even consider ourselves part of the US! Sure I'd prefer to live on a nice ranch somewhere but that was not in the cards for me, I have to be where the work is.

Not sure your point on intelligence but "competion" is spelled competition for the record. :p

Nice thing is...
lots of people = lots of cars = lots of tire places = lots of weights. You live in the boonies there's less people but greater percentage of shooters. It's not hard for me to find 3/4 a bucket of weights here for free a month if no more.

[Jaybird62]

There were a lot of people who thought Noah was crazy, too. We all know how that one turned out.

Funny how things change over time. I'm just happy that I've got a minimal level of competition for WW, and that selling my surplus WW has allowed me to break even on creating my personal stockpile.

[303Guy]

Not sure your point on intelligence but ...Casters seem to be intelligent folks! They are interesting folks - good humoured. :drinks: (But I have to watch my spelling around them!):mrgreen:

I have to live in a city too.