Lee Factory Crimp Die Test on Cast Boolits

[Sky King]

I read how the Lee FCD can resize a cast boolit. So I cast some Lee 358-105 swc for my Colt Commander in 9 mm using 5 part ww to 2 parts lino. Sized 1 to .357 and 1 to .358 seated them to a depth of 1.1 in WW cases, which will allow the case to seat flush to the chamberl (no primer or powder) and then crimped using the Lee FCD.
I then pulled the boolit using a RCBS impact puller. Result .357 boolit miked at
.357 and .358 boolit mike out at .358.
No resizing of boolit. Maybe my alloy is harder than what others are using, but this is what I use for everything for my 9 mm, .357, 45 acp and 44 Mag.

[Doc Highwall]

I believe the purpose of the LFCD is to prevent you from making too large of a crimp bulging the case and preventing it from being chambered, and sizing it on the way out of the die.

[Gohon]

Tells me the carbide sizing ring in the crimp die is at least .358. Try a bullet dropped straight from the mould and see what happens.

[Johnch]

Tells me the carbide sizing ring in the crimp die is at least .358. Try a bullet dropped straight from the mould and see what happens.

I was thinking along the same lines
As I size my boolits for the 357 Max to .360

John

[xr650]

I use Lee FCD on 45 Colt and 45 ACP. I haven't had any problems. These are air cooled WW.

I started loading 40 SW using an FCD. I had leading problems. These are air cooled WW.
I loaded some cartridges seating with the die backed out so I didn't crimp and then backing off the seat stem and crimped in a seperate stage. Leading went away. So I ordered a Lee crimp die (no sizing ring). This die works well.

I seated some 40 boolits sized .403" with out crimp. Pulled them and they were .402"
I seated some 40 boolits sized .403" with out crimp and FCD'ed without crimp. Pulled them and they were .401"

I tried to seat and crimp in one stage. The lead pushed in front of the case. My
Sig ate them, but my XD weren't happy.

[jcwit]

I used the FCD with .45 ACP sized to .452 and the FCD resized the lead to .450 or smaller I don't remember exactly but it ended up undersized. Just ended up using the seating/crimping after readjusting and forgot about the FCD. Accuracy came right back and one less thing to worry about.

[Down South]

Maybe not all FCD’s are created equal, I don’t know. Perhaps some of the sizer rings of the same caliber are not exactly the same. I know Lee moulds can differ in diameter. Different brands of brass can also be thicker than others. I use several FCD’s and I had to remove the carbide sizing ring from two of them. I got a new 44 Special/Magnum FCD last week. After reloading about ten rounds with it I took a punch and knocked out the carbide ring. It was squeezing the brass so hard I could actually see where the lube grooves were on the boolits on the outside of the brass when they came out of the FCD. I was using Starline brass and my boolits were sized at .430”. I knocked the ring out and no more problems. I do like the roll crimp that the FCD does.
I have other FCD’s that have never given me a problem.

[Sky King]

These were all air cooled and dropped from the mold at .3605. The next time I pour 44's and 45's I'll report on them too. As I have Lee FCD for these as well.

[jonk]

It was my impression that the Lee Factory Crimp die was a collet used mainly to prevent runout during rifle bullet seating; and that the die included in the pistol sets is referred to as the Lee taper crimp die.

2 totally different animals. Both can bugger a cast bullet up but in different ways with different degrees of controlability.

[44man]

It was my impression that the Lee Factory Crimp die was a collet used mainly to prevent runout during rifle bullet seating; and that the die included in the pistol sets is referred to as the Lee taper crimp die.

2 totally different animals. Both can bugger a cast bullet up but in different ways with different degrees of controlability.
That is my impression, I did not know there are two styles of FCD's. I am dumb here because I only own one FCD for the 45-70 and it is a collet. I don't like what it does with cast or the case mouth. The best use I have found for it is to lock loose gas checks.
It appears the best use of either is with jacketed bullets.

[Down South]

It appears the best use of either is with jacketed bullets.
I believe this too. J-bullets are usually at least .001" less in diameter than cast size that is needed.

[Larry Gibson]

Guess I'm dumb here to as I thought "Lee factory Crimp die" only referred to the collet crimp die. I also find the LFCD works very well for crimping GCs on when want to shoot "as cast" and not having a correct sizer.

Larry Gibson

[HeavyMetal]

Read an article yrs ago that interviewed Lee. Don't remember which one.

In it he mentioned the "discovery" of the Lee Factory Crimp Die for Pistol rounds. Basically they had a bunch of reject carbide sizer dies that had been ground just a touch to large to resize case's. Some employee discovered he could shove loaded rounds throught them and that they "ironed out" any "imperfections" created during the loading process and allowed rounds that might not chamber to be used!

This is the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp dies claim to fame: all pistol ammo run through said die will function in any pistol. I do know that the taper crimp part of the auto pistol dies allows way to much crimp adjustment and most users are doing just that over crimping with them!

This is what is sizing boolits, at least in most case's! If Lee is continuing to use "scrap" sizing dies to make these, and I have no reason to belive otherwise, we will see these dies provide differing levels of performance.

As with any of Lee's products it needs to be examined upon purchase to be sure it performs as promised and returned promptly if it does not!

I will also mention that Lee has a completely different Factory Crimp die for Rifle rounds and they are as different as night and day structurally.

[44man]

I like Lee melting pots, molds and boolit size dies. I guess that is as far as it goes! :Fire:

[DLCTEX]

The Lee collet crimp dies can be set to crimp as much/little as you want. You can crimp so hard as to put a canalure in a jacketed bullet, or just iron out the flare of a case. The pistol die is different, doing a roll crimp, then insuring the OD of the case will chamber. We who like fat boolits are making ammo larger than factory specs, so the FCD may not suit us. We are trying to get the die to do something other than what it is designed to do.

[jonk]

The Lee collet crimp dies can be set to crimp as much/little as you want. You can crimp so hard as to put a canalure in a jacketed bullet, or just iron out the flare of a case. The pistol die is different, doing a roll crimp, then insuring the OD of the case will chamber. We who like fat boolits are making ammo larger than factory specs, so the FCD may not suit us. We are trying to get the die to do something other than what it is designed to do.
Well put dale. It works great for jacketed, as does the taper crimp. The factory crimp also has a place in cast reloading as you say, to iron out the flare, but I find a firm chambering into the gun of a properly (not overly) flared case means that it isn't needed...or roll crimp in the seating die will generally accomplish this as well.

[Gohon]

I've always been a little leery of claims the FCD re-sizes bullets. Lee claims the re-sizing is done on the way out of the die. You have to ask yourself why this is not done also as the cartridge enters the die. So I done a little measuring today and here is what I came up with. Outside diameter of 45 Colt case sized through RCBS carbide die was .469. Bullet diameter to be loaded was .454. Lee FCD carbide ring diameter was .474. The sized case and bullet fell straight through the sizer ring and never touched the ring walls. So where is this sizing taking place? If you look at the Lee FCD you will see the crimp sleeve floats inside the die. When on the down stroke of the press and you feel that resistance, it is not sizing going on but the cartridge pulling free of the roll crimp sleeve as it bottoms out on the sizer ring.

Doc Highwall has it right.........all that ring does is ensure that if the case does bulge during crimping that the the overall outside diameter of the cartridge does not exceed 0.474 (45 Colt) diameter and prevent chambering. For those that say their bullets were changed in size when pulled and measured, I don't know what the answer is to that but I think there is another force of some kind that causes that. Maybe due to the ductility of lead there is a change because of manner of how the bullet is pulled or as HeavyMetal says, over crimping .........I don't know but I just don't think the die is changing the diameter of loaded lead bullets.

It is possible I guess with a long nose riding bullet to be re-sized from the crimp forward when forced up into the crimp sleeve but not from the crimp down. Just my opinion and observations.......

[snuffy]

That is my impression, I did not know there are two styles of FCD's.

Actually there's 3. The collet die for bottle neck brass, taper dies for auto loading rounds, and roll crimpers for straight sided revolver rounds.

The test for 9mm is a moot point. In other words it means nothing. The 9mm is a tapered round. The ONLY place the carbide ring would ever touch is the very bottom/head area of the case. It is really not doing anything other than doing a taper crimp.

As said, the carbide ring is SUPPOSED to only iron out large deformation of the straight sides of a round. If it's dragging on the sides of the case going in, it's way out of spec., it should be returned for one that is in spec.

I got one for 44 mag. It doesn't crimp firmly enough. I suspect the roll crimp ring is oversized. But having heard of the redding profile crimper, I switched to that, couldn't be happier.

[35remington]

Actually, if the lead bullet is a little oversized, or even sometimes of standard size, the carbide ring will size the case where the bullet is, which is also sizing the bullet (especially in a tapered insert 9mm die, which is smaller at the top of the carbide ring than the bottom as it's a longer carbide sizing ring - many others are just cylindrical - and FWIW, cylindrical carbide inserts in the LFCD will size the bullet also, not just the base of the cartridge when speaking of such as the 45 ACP and 380). So pulling the bullet after taper crimping it in the LFCD is a valid test to determine just how much diameter reduction is taking place as the case/bullet passes through the carbide ring. (One also should check reduction of diameter without crimping, as the OP did here).

Have dies that do just that. Amount of sizing depends upon the bullet and how oversized, and the thickness of the brass.

In theory, if the bullet is sized b¥ the carbide ring (especially lead bullets which run to oversize) bullet pull is loosened. Whether this matters or not in feeding autoloading pistol rounds is something the user will have to determine for himself.

NEVER seat the bullet AND taper crimp in the same step with autoloading pistol rounds. Bad juju. A ring of lead can get plowed up in front of the case mouth and this interferes with proper chambering.

[Sky King]

I just finished some more testing.
This time I loaded an unsized .3605 into a 9mm case and a unsized .3605 into a 357mag case, put each one into their respective 9mm and .357 FCD and then pulled both.
9 mm measured .3595 and .357 measured .3565
A good test for me to save the FCD for jacketed boolits only.

[garandsrus]

I have definitely had the Lee FCD die size boolits in .38 Special. I could even feel it when it was sizing a driving band and when it was over a lube groove.

John

[Gohon]

35remington, you got me to thinking again and I really wish you wouldn't do that as it can be very dangerous and painful at my age. Anyway what I realized I missed with the measurements on the 45 Colt case was the inside diameter of a sized case. That turned out to be .4475 inches, a difference of .0065 inches from the .4540 (over size) bullets I used. Assuming that a seated bullet will expand the outside diameter of the case by .0065 I would then have a loaded cartridge with a outside diameter of .4755 inches. So, if the sizer ring is .4740 inches and the cartridge is now .4755 inches then it stands to reason the ring will size the case and bullet down .0015 inches if a over sized bullet is used such the one's I cast. To double check this I measured 10 different 45 Colt loads and all were .4740 the same size as the sizer ring diameter. I would assume there would be no sizing going on with a standard .452 bullet.

So I must say that I stand corrected. Only thing I'm positive about now is they all shoot good so I'm not gonna worry about it.......

[zxcvbob]

I generally dislike LFCD's, but I bought one for .38 Specials. I was having trouble with .38's and .357's loaded with .358" cast boolits were sometimes bulged enough by yhe boolit base that they wouldn't chamber. I still crimp with the seating die, but then I run the cartridges thru the LFCD with the crimper backed way out to make sure they will load OK.

For my target loads, I use RP brass because it's thinner and the LFCD seldom touches them.

I don't see the purpose for them at all in tapered ctg's like 9mm and .45ACP.