2 part .38 mold question.

[Rundownfid]

I recently ran accost an older article (April 2003) by Ross Seyfried on casting soft nosed bullets. This was very interesting and well written (I wonder why he no longer writes for Handloader?).
My question is two part: what do you think of casting with a softer nose and a harder base? & if you think it worthwhile, what would be a good mold to get a 158 gr .357 HP with a soft nose? I am primarily interested in a bullet that will expand reliably at .38+P pressures from a J frame. However, the thought of pushing it faster and using it for bigger game in a .357 is also of interest.

[HeavyMetal]

I think Ross is just to darn busy with the ranch and guiding work to write much any more.

It'shame as I like his stuff.

Lyman used to make a mold set for a "composite" boolit. soft nose hard base glue together.

BruceB puts soft lead in the nose cavity of a mold then dips it in alloy until it melts then adds the harder lead as a boolit base. This has worked well from the posts I've seen.

Suggest you do a search for Bruceb's posts.

[Rundownfid]

Heavymetal; excellent advice, just as you suggested there was a thread on the soft nosed bullets that ended only a week ago.

any suggestions on good 158 gr hp bullets?

[beagle]

Then Veral had a two pot setup that made them.

When I want some seious lead, I dust off a HP mould of some configuration....whatever I'm wanting it for. Easier than messing with making soft nose bullets./beagle

[Leftoverdj]

I use two pots and a homemade dipper to make cast softnose. You have to run everything very hot and you still get a discouraging number of culls, but you only need a very limited number of bullets. The dipper is used for the lead, and the base is cast from the alloy pot, but you have to move very fast.

If you try it with a removable pin mould, you are going to have to rig a way to keep the pin hot while you are cutting the sprue and dropping the bullet. Unless the pin is very hot, the lead will solidify too fast to get a good bond with the alloy.

[Harry O]

I have one of the Lyman two-mould .38/.357 bullets. I forget the number offhand, but it has one mould for the nose that you cast in pure lead. Then there is a separate plain base mould that fits around the nose. It is a lot like a very large hollow-point. It is supposed to be cast in linotype (or anything else hard). Once they are both cast, they are glued together. When done, it looks like a regular SWC.

It didn't work for me. Casting the base from Bhn 18 lead was an exercise in frustration. It was very difficult to get the thin edges to fill out completely (even with the furnace all the way up and more tin than is normallyused. Also, the glue I used (gel superglue) would fracture about the 4th or 5th shot and the soft nose would fly forward about 5 feet.

I used it in a .357 Magnum with 13.5gr of 2400. I did not have any leading to speak of with the Bhn 18 against the rifling and the accuracy was equal to the 358156-GC bullets I also use (at least out to 25 yards). The 358156-GC are MUCH easier to cast, although they are more expensive with the GC.

I also tried taking some of the already cast noses and putting them in a similar sized and shaped single-piece Lyman .38/.357 mould. It also did not work. There is no way to get them into a hot mould without getting burnt. Also, they did not fit that closely and where they touched, the lead tended to run, making for misshapen bullets.

I have not tried a small scoop of soft lead then filling up the rest of the mould with hard lead. At least yet.

[Larry Gibson]

Rundownfld

All Factory .38+P lead SWCHPs loads are soft lead. Just cast them that way and lube with a good 50/50 lube like Javelina and they work fine, especially from a J-frame. I use 358477 and HP with a Forster tool. Or you can use the Speer or Hornady swaged lead SWCs and HP them with the Forster tool. I think one or both of them came with HPs at one time. J-frame velocities with +P loads are going to be in the 825-875 fps range depending on barrel length. That is well within the capability of pure lead as a bullet. For the .357 just get a 358156 mould, cast soft with a 20-1 or 16-1 lead-tin alloy, HP with the Forster tool (or get a HP mould) and load to true .357 magnum velocities of 1400+ from a 6"+ barrel. The GC'd bullet with that soft alloy and a proper lube will not lead and will shoot very accurately. Expansion is impressive also.

Larry Gibson

[zxcvbob]

I've wondered how a wide flat nosed boolit cast from soft 99:1 alloy would work in SD loads at .38SPL +P velocities -- no hollow points and no gas checks. Lee's 158 RNFP mold has a very wide nose with fairly sharp corners. I've cast a few from pure lead with just a trace of tin, but I haven't lubed them yet. (they look real purdy) Will probably use BAC.

How bad would it lead in almost-full-tilt .357 Magnum?

[Harry O]

I've wondered how a wide flat nosed boolit cast from soft 99:1 alloy would work in SD loads at .38SPL +P velocities -- no hollow points and no gas checks. Lee's 158 RNFP mold has a very wide nose with fairly sharp corners.

How bad would it lead in almost-full-tilt .357 Magnum?

I don't know about leading in the .357 Magnum, but I doubt that the accuracy would be any good. With the 358156-GC, I originally tried some 99:1 alloy in my .357 Magnum with 13.5gr of 2400. I did not have much problem with leading (a few flakes in the forcing cone, but nothing further down the rifling), but the accuracy was poor. I was able to dig out a bullet and it looked like the rifling was wider at the front than the rear (skidding even though there was a GC).

The next time I cast, I tried the same thing with Bhn 12 lead and got considerably better accuracy. Then I tried some with Bhn 18 lead. It was harder to cast (more rejects) and it did not seem to have any better accuracy than the Bhn 12 ones. I now use Bhn 12 lead with the GC. I get good accuracy in my .357 Magnums and no leading.

I don't know how the 99:1 would work at .38 Special +P velocities, but I think it would probably work there. I have never tried that, since I refuse to pay for a GC for any .38 Special, +P or not. I use Bhn 9 to 12 lead (whatever is handy) with plain base bullets at .38 Spl +P pressures without a problem

What is other people's experience with the proper lead to use with gas checks?

[HeavyMetal]

I have never favored 158 gr boolits in the 38 or 357. I prefer 150's.

Can't give you a reason other than the fact that 150's I use just look better than 158's I've seen and cast.

Lyman's 358156 is classic. It's supposed to cast a 150 but it doesn't unless you have an HP mold. Add the hassle of a GC and I lost interest in it yrs ago.

For most of my work in this caliber I have an RCBS and a Saeco mold that cast the correct, for me, weight. On the rare ocassion I need an expanding boolit I have a Lyman 358429 HP and I use that cast at 14BHN in my Contender and lube with Lar's Carnuba red.

Point of impact is the same and I don't shoot enough of them at one time to have a leading problem so I honestly don't know if I do.

I have never worked with the composite molds but my suggestion on the base portion would be Linotype with the 22BHN These will have enough tin in them to fill out easily, or at least they should.

[anachronism]

Wolfe fired Ross several years ago. The whole story has not been told, but it sounds like he neglected to kowtow to the powers that be. Some insider at wolfe suggested that he was a little "difficult". I thought he was great. I always have.

For casting softpoints, try this: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11749

[MtGun44]

I think Ross preferred to write about "interesting" old rifles and that didn't fit the
Wolf mission well enough. Sorry to lose him. Another point is that he wrote that he had
already said everything he knew to pass along and didn't want to repeat himself on sort
of 'how I hunted the wiley _____' articles.

I miss his articles, too.

Bill

[anachronism]

I seem to remember a reader once wrote in to chastise him for seemingly not covering an issue in an article is such a way that agreed with said readers pet theory. I forget the exact exchange but Ross was told that he needed to ask the editor assign him a certain topic. Ross replied that the Editor doesn't assign him anything, he makes his own decisions.

I need to save some money up & hunt at Elk Song. I'd like to hunt with Ross just one time.