what is the most versatile powder ?

[watkibe]

What is your opinion, fellow booliters ? If you could only have one powder, which one would it be ? For instance, I have used Unique in shotgun, handgun, and rifle cartridges. What are some other versatile powders ?

[geargnasher]

Hodgdon's Universal. As versatile as Unique but MUCH cleaner burning. It's the one I reach for first for most pistol and some rifle loads.

The MOST versitle powder imo would be black powder, and that is what I would choose could I have only one because I can't make good 300 H+H loads with Universal but I can load my .38 with black powder, plus I can make it myself.

Gear

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Red Dot and similar burning rate powder works in all three for a lot of loads/calibers, if you only had a powder.

2400 is another very good powder, not load or pressure sensitive , will give higher velocity in rifle/pistol loads.

This is really a loaded question.[smilie=1:

[44mag1]

For cast bullets? I would say steel after unique. I have had nothing but good luck with steel powder. everything from 222 to 45-70

[6.5 mike]

I've used red dot for all 3 for years, gets my vote.

[Heavy lead]

Ah one powder is as bad as one gun. When it comes to boolits, bullets, powder and guns I'm certainly a polygamist.
Two:
Unique, I went back after realizing Universal wasn't as good at least for the applications I use it for, nor as safe because of the lack of bulk.
H, IMR 4895 or AA 2495, if I had to I could run everything I own in a longgun with one of these.

[randyrat]

RED DOT I've used it in pistol, rifle, shot gun. That would be my choice if i didn't have Unique.

[stubshaft]

Unique

[Rodfac]

Win 231 for anything with a short case: .32 H&R, .32-20, .38 S&W, .38 Spl, .357, .41 Mag, .44-40, .44 Spl & Mag, .45 ACP & LC. Does 'em all well
For rifle: 4759 or 4227.
Shotgun: Unique.

JMHO Rodfac

[timkelley]

Unique.

[zxcvbob]

I don't know if I could get by with just one powder, but I could probably do OK with two: Bullseye and either AA#7 or WSF or Herco. (According to the charts, Power Pistol is the ideal 2nd powder, but I haven't tried it yet)

I use an awful lot of Promo, but I picked Bullseye here because it meters better, and it provides much better performance in 9mm.

[unique]

The most flexible type of powder is a double-based flake type like one of the 'dots', unique, etc.

Unique happens to have the right combination of bulk, buring rate, ease of ignition, and pressure range which arguably make it the most versatile of powders. The real answer is an individual thing based upon what type of shooting do you tend towards.

Universal was designed to mimic Unique so what does that tell you.

Why any cares about how clean a powder burns is beyond me. I mean you wash your hands afterwards anyway, don't you?

[cajun shooter]

Hodgdon Clays, use it in pistol and shotgun and I'm sure that it could be used for low rifle loads. Unique would be my first choice if I had only one powder though.

[felix]

Mr. Unique, a clean burning powder will allow more shots between cleaning at the same accuracy level. Becomes most significant in small caliber rifles, and larger calibers when the gun has shallow grooves. Keep in mind, we are talking about maintaining the same accuracy level throughout the shooting session only, and when the gun can tell the difference anyway. ... felix

[beagle]

Unique by far.

When I started loading and a $5 pound of powder was a major purchase, Unique filled the bill on light .30/06 loads with Lyman's 311291, .38 Special and .45 loads and also in the fall for 12 guage loads.

Hasn't been replaced by anything since (IMO)./beagle

[mtgrs737]

I vote for Unique too. I use more of it for cast boolit loads in pistol and rifle than any other. The last keg of it I bought weighs 15lbs.

[1Shirt]

Unique would be my #2, but my #1 would definately have to be 2400. I shoot a lot more rifle than I do handgun. Maybe if it was the other way around, would reverse my choices.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Rocky Raab]

It might interest you that Unique was originally made and sold as a reduced-load powder for the 30-06. I have copies of some very early load pamphlets that say just that.

[Firebird]

Definitely Unique.
What other powder is in the load manuals for shotgun shells, pretty much every pistol cartridge, and reduced/cast bullet loadings for most rifle cartridges? It's not that you can use Unique for almost any cartridge, but that there is known pressure data for Unique in almost every cartridge so you don't have to guess at pressure levels or wonder if you are going to get a surprise by getting outside of a powders pressure range.

[jdgabbard]

+1 for Unique. It really is a universal powder, even if it is dirty as hell.

[Trey45]

1. Unique
2. Red Dot
3. Bullseye

[leadman]

Unique is my first choice.

AA#2 is also a good powder in handgun cartridges. Works good for reduced loads in 22K Hornet and 223. Haven't tried in in anything larger.

[unique]

Mr Felix, nice to hear from you. An iteresting point you raise and I think valid in some cases (no pun intended). If you are talking ball powder in small caliber, high twist and all then sure clean and accuracy go together. If you are talking 45 colt with 255 cast lumbering along then I might argue that residue from the powder might just help to keep leading down. In that case dirtier is more accurate.

[felix]

The primer has enough grit to make things dirty enough, especially up close to the forcing cone. Powder dirt will not hurt in large bores like you say, but the viscosity of the lube must be kept in check so it won't build in combo with the residue. Black Powder bores have very deep grooves and should never present a problem with smokeless. ... felix

[geargnasher]

The most flexible type of powder is a double-based flake type like one of the 'dots', unique, etc.

Unique happens to have the right combination of bulk, buring rate, ease of ignition, and pressure range which arguably make it the most versatile of powders. The real answer is an individual thing based upon what type of shooting do you tend towards.

Universal was designed to mimic Unique so what does that tell you.

Why any cares about how clean a powder burns is beyond me. I mean you wash your hands afterwards anyway, don't you?

I agree Unique is great stuff performance-wise. So is Universal.

Let me bring the merit of clean-burning powder within your range. In the spirit of this thread we are talking about shooting ONE powder. Unique will not foul the works of autoloading shotguns or gas-operated long guns as badly as Unique, which leaves an oily residue on everything, including my shooting glasses and face. My wife won't kiss me after I've been shooting pistol loads with Unique because she can taste the soot on my lips, but Universal she can't even smell it on my clothes. Yes I do wash my face and hands, but if I wanted to go around smelling like nitro I would mist myself with racing fuel. It really makes a difference when it comes time to deep-clean actions and bolts. Unique used to get into my 1911 mags, causing lint and dust to stick to the mag followers. When shooting softer lubes, the Unique fouls my bores much worse than many other powders, including some other Alliant/Hercules types so I have to clean more often to maintain accuracy in a long benchrest session. Not saying Universal is the best stuff ever, just saying if I could have only one Universal serves ME best. Try it sometime and see for yourself.

Gear

[fredj338]

I agree Unique is great stuff performance-wise. So is Universal.

Let me bring the merit of clean-burning powder within your range. In the spirit of this thread we are talking about shooting ONE powder. Unique will not foul the works of autoloading shotguns or gas-operated long guns as badly as Unique, which leaves an oily residue on everything, including my shooting glasses and face. My wife won't kiss me after I've been shooting pistol loads with Unique because she can taste the soot on my lips, but Universal she can't even smell it on my clothes. Yes I do wash my face and hands, but if I wanted to go around smelling like nitro I would mist myself with racing fuel. It really makes a difference when it comes time to deep-clean actions and bolts. Unique used to get into my 1911 mags, causing lint and dust to stick to the mag followers. When shooting softer lubes, the Unique fouls my bores much worse than many other powders, including some other Alliant/Hercules types so I have to clean more often to maintain accuracy in a long benchrest session. Not saying Universal is the best stuff ever, just saying if I could have only one Universal serves ME best. Try it sometime and see for yourself.

Gear
Have you tried current manuf Unique? It is supposed to be & does seem cleaner burning than the older. It also seems a but faster than "old" Unique. If I could only have one powder for all mu handgun loads from 380-45colt magnums, it would be Unique. Not the best for all carts, but it gives a broad enough load range to work in them all. SOmething faster pwoders can not do. Universal & WSF are also quite good, cleaner burning & meter better. I would be happy using those as well.

[Nrut]

I shoot mostly rifle cart. so my pick would be H4895....
22-250 on up....

[35remington]

I really don't get the "super dirty" claims of some (past?) users of Unique. The impression I get from their claims is that it's about the same level as 2F blackpowder, when in point of actual fact, in usage from pistol to rifle to shotgun, it really ain't all that dirty. Certainly not enough to affect the firearm's realiability with any reasonable amount of shooting.

Wanna see dirty? Look down your shotgun barrel after shooting a load of HS-7 or W571 in short magnum loads. Leaves a heavy line of unconsumed powder down the barrel like a trail of oats from a feed sack.

That's far, far dirtier than Unique. Yet even it didn't matter in autoloaders with any reasonable amount of shooting. Unique's cleanliness - YES, I said it - it's pretty clean - has never resulted in any problems in any reasonable load. Rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Handling the wife doesn't occur until I've washed the powder lube, lead bullet oxides and smears, and range dirt off my hands. Any powder residue is in very small minority compared to the gun oil/dirt/bullet lube and lead smears on my hands that comes from loading auto pistol magazines and shooting autoloading pistols.

I've recently been shooting a load of 5.8 grains Herco under a 230 cast LRN in 45 ACP. Recall that Herco hasn't been "cleaned up" as Unique has recently and remains supposedly "dirtier." Even this supposedly disgustingly dirty Herco really wasn't all that dirty.

Sometimes, truly, we worry about minutiae.

With alternatives come possible downsides. Universal has some that concern me.

[mooman76]

Has to be Unique. May not always be the best powder but it can be used in shotgun, cast rifle and almost every pistol application, cast and jacketed. There are allot of good others though.

[shotman]

I just work with some loads today In a 10mm I used 4 powders and the New unique was by FAR better and it is much cleaner that the old stuff . 25 rounds and SS gun was in good shape Brass was dark and clean inside. The new stuff is a world different got nice groups too

[JIMinPHX]

Unique does fairly well in just about any cartridge I can think of, rifle or pistol. I think that it would be pretty hard to find another powder that would actually beat it for versatility. Beyond that, Most of the faster pistol powders like Bullseye or W-231 can be used for lite charges in a lot of different applications too.

[targetshootr]

Universal by far. Every bit as good as Unique except it doesn't leave your gun, your hands or your pistol rug feeling greasy.

[ChuckS1]

Universal by far. Every bit as good as Unique except it doesn't leave your gun, your hands or your pistol rug feeling greasy.

Are you sure that's not your lube?

[jack19512]

Unique will not foul the works of autoloading shotguns or gas-operated long guns as badly as Unique







Huh? :???: J/K I know what you meant. :mrgreen:

[targetshootr]

Are you sure that's not your lube?

It could be Unique works on Magma lube differently than Universal but the difference is noticeable, grease vs no grease.

[johniv]

Gotta be Unique. I have used it for 40 years (!!) and it does a good job in most pistol applications and works well for cast rifle loads. I dont load for shotguns but see by the manuals that it can be used for that. About the supposed dirty/clean issue, I clean after each shooting session and have used my reloads at Gunsite (and other class situations) and never failed to clean up with 4 patches or so and never had malfunctions due to "schmutz". I dident keep track of how many rounds between cleaning. Also I spent many years in a shop where I cleaned customers guns(military, leo and civ) . Most leo and civ guns,( Pistols,rifles ,smg's and shotguns,) fired with factory ammo are incredably filthy. Usually not having been cleaned since Hector was a pup, so I veiw a days shooting with anything as pretty light soil by comparison.
Just my .02
John

[Kirk Miller]

At least for me and my cast boolit loads, Unique beats universal and anything else in light to medium loads, accuracy wise.
Kirk

[Old Ironsights]

I use 2400 in evertyhing I reload for... from .38sp/Mag to 9.3x72R to .45-70

[sheepdog]

+1 red dot

[dwtim]

Unique.

It may be sooty, but unlike the residue left by other propellants, Unique's cleans up very easily.

Now, if we're talking the most accurate loads, it depends on the cartridge and the desired velocity. Trail Boss does wonders for my 45 Colt guns, but it won't do its magic at 1,300 ft/s in my 44s, like 2400 does.

[watkibe]

Wow, 15 powders mentioned, but only 5 mentioned more than once: Red Dot 4 votes, Universal 2 votes, 2400 2 votes, Bullseye 2 votes, 4895 2 votes, and Unique got 19 !!!
I guess it really is UNIQUE...
Dirty ? Brass from my loads using Unique usually have soot around the mouth and sort of an oily feel. I always figured it was due to the low pressure not obturating the boolits completely, combined with the Lee Liquid Alox fumes. In my shotgun, with no bullet or lube, the only "dirt" I see is unburned powder kernels in the barrel.
I'm surprised that SR 4759 was only mentioned once. It's my standby for rifle cast boolit loads. It gives good loading density and is flexible with regards to the velocities you can load it to. If you look on the burning rate chart in the Lee book, it is right in between H110 and W296, which are supposed to be identical. I recently finally found some data for 4759 in the 44 mag. It works just as well, except for being a stick powder instead of a ball powder like H110 so it doesn't meter as smoothly.

[oldhickory]

I'm kinda torn between Unique and 2400...I guess if it came right down to the wire though, (a life-time supply of only one powder) UNIQUE!

[joedapro]

unique

[muzzleblast]

Count me in the UNIQUE camp for the short guns, and put me down for IMR 4350 for the long ones.

[Rockchucker]

Unique!

[putteral]

I only load for the .380, 9mm and .45 and I mostly use either Titegroup, Power Pistol or AA #5. They seem to work the best for me. Like Unique but meters poorly.

[hedgehorn]

Unique or Universal. I like them both.

[geargnasher]

Ok, looks like I opened up a can of worms with the dirty Unique. Truth is, I'm still using the stuff I bought back in high school (early '90s) in the cardboard cans that was made by Hercules. Didn't fiqure it had changed much. I quit using it the first time I tried Universal even though I still have about 6lbs of Unique, so I haven't bought any of the "new" Unique formulation. Maybe I will because it sure worked better than anything else I tried with some .30-30 loads I worked up years ago.

Gear

[Heavy lead]

I have found two things about Unique, number one the new stuff really is cleaner, number two if you run it mid range loads (not light) I'm talking like 10 grains in a 44 Mag or a 45 Colt it burns IME a lot cleaner than with say 7 or 8 grains.

[Trader Vic]

Unique is my 1st choice followed by Red Dot. I use both for handguns & shotguns. NRA PATRON LIFE MEMBER

[oldhickory]

I don't know what all the fuss is about Unique being "dirty". I've used it as my primary handgun powder for ages and it's one of the top three powders I use for cast boolit loads in rifle also. So it's a little dirty...It's still by far the most flexable powder on the market. I tried Universal, and went back to Unique in short order, gave what was left of the Universal to someone else. I have a lot of old unique, and some new, as long as it maintains it's fabulous reputation for accuracy and works in anything I decide to load it in...I DON'T CARE IF IT'S TWICE AS DIRTY AS OLD UNIQUE WAS!

As a side note, I'll use Herco as a substitute for Unique before I try Universal again.