Portable Outdoors/Survival Reloading Kit

[SciFiJim]

jdgabbard (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=6396)'s post here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=569987&posted=1#post569987) got me to thinking about what to include in a Portable Outdoors/Survival Reloading Kit. Here are items off the top of my head.


Portable outdoors kit

1.Lee Hand press
2.Dies for each caliber
3.Lee auto prime or similar
4.Steel wool for cleaning case
5.Primers sr, lp lr, as needed. Work up a load for pistols using sr for more flexibility.
6.Powder that is usable across several calibers for flexibility.
7.dipper for each caliber made from spent casing of that caliber and cut down to correct amount /with wire handle soldered on.
8.boolits for each caliber. Limit to one choice for each caliber.
9.case lube



Add these items for survival kit
1.two cavity mould for each caliber. Should be something that can be shot as cast.
2.One set of mould handles
3.metal ladle with wooden handle that a couple of WWs can be melted in over an open fire
4.Bottle of Alox

Can anyone think of essentials to include that I have missed? The idea is to keep it as simple as possible.

[leadman]

Might want to rethink the sr primers for pistols. They may stick up out of the case and could cause problems.
A small cast iron pot would make it easier to melt and flux the lead.

[JesterGrin_1]

One wild question but where will you get your lead to melt to start with?

[jhalcott]

I used to go on weekend hunts with a couple loaded rounds and and a Lee classic reloading set up. It WAS fun,but I'd NOT want to be in a REAL situation that required me to carry a LOT of ammo components. A simple kit consisting of an M16 type rifle and a 100 or so cartridges will get you thru ALMOST any thing in a survival situation. A better (though heavier) choice might be a 7.62x39 caliber gun. Better on deer and man than the .223,not much more recoil and good accuracy. IF you are going to emulate the unibomber and live in the deep woods for a year or more , you're idea has SOME MERIT. bE ADVISED THAT IT WILL NOT BE EASY TO LUG THIS KIT AROUND WITH all the other gear you'll need!

[JesterGrin_1]

To me reloading in the field would not be fun much less to carry all of the things needed to do so.

So my silly thought even though I could be way off base would be to pick a rifle pistol combo that would use the same round. Such as a .357 or a .44 Mag such as a Marlin and pick your brand of side arm. For Ammo I think I would use a Bandolier or two over the shoulders that way I could carry maybe up to 200 rounds. If you do not waste them I feel they would last a long time.

But again I could be all wrong. :)

[SciFiJim]

Might want to rethink the sr primers for pistols.
I already use sr primers for my .357 rifle/pistol combo without a problem.
I've also used them in my wife's P40. They are the same size as small pistol primers, but with thicker metal. The problem is to make sure that you have a heavy enough firing pin strike.


A small cast iron pot would make it easier to melt and flux the lead.
I was thinking of the ladle that Mel Gibson's character used in "The Patriot"


One wild question but where will you get your lead to melt to start with?
In a survival situation - the nearest wheeled vehicle. After TEOTWAWKI there would be lead for the picking everywhere, at least for a while. I think that you would run out of primers first.

In any other situation it would be easier to just pack along a couple of hundred rounds. Common caliber rifle/pistol combos would be beneficial here.

[HeavyMetal]

JesterGrin 1;
Your not to far off!

The reason rifles and pistols got chambered for the same round ( 38-40, 44-40, 32-20) was to keep all the kit and kaboodle as simple as possible for transport by horse back!

This would have been before and just after the turn of the 19th century but what made sense then still does now.

In a "survival" sitch this could be narrowed down to one Lee single cavity mold and a lee loader in the appropriate caliber. Throw in a small container of powder primer and a few lead ingot and a very small cast iron pot and you colud be loading and under 10 lbs!

A man with a 357 ( or better yet a 44 mag) Marlin/Winchester- Smith/ ruger combo could be will armed and easily supplied for a short time period, say six months.

Many an explorer, prospector, cowboy and hunter lived with less and not as good a set up for a year or more at a time!

[stubshaft]

ScifiJim
Look at the "track of the wolf" catalog. They have a lead dipper that can be attached to a branch or stick and used to melt lead. Mountain men used these to cast lead balls so they are a tried and proven design.

My outfit would consist of one of these. an ingot or two lf lead. one boolit mould. Lee loader and powder and primers stored in plastic containers.

[Pepe Ray]

Skeeter Skelton did an artical on this for Shooting Times many years ago.
IIR his was a Lyman tong tool set up for .357M and rolled up in a GI tool rug.
Wish that I had clipped it,--MMmmm, maybe I did. Better look tommorrow.
Pepe Ray















skeeter Skelton did an artical on this many years ago

[superior]

My choice would be a flint lock...a roundball mould....extra flint......powder....ladle...lead..

[Slow Elk 45/70]

This idea has been around a long time, it is a real practical idea or practice depending on were you are and where you plan on going in an emergency situation.

I keep just such a pack set up for 44 mag. a marlin 1894 and a ruger super blackhawk
with a hand loader/dies and a single cavity mold w / handles , a few ingots of alloy, a medium ladle , small cast pot , primers/powder and all of the usual survival necessities.

IMHO this is a must for where I live , in addition to several hundred rounds loaded and ready to rock. If I have to head deeper into the country, I don't want to be wasting time trying to round up all this stuff in a hurry.

[Naphtali]

jdgabbard (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=6396)'s post here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=569987&posted=1#post569987) got me to thinking about what to include in a Portable Outdoors/Survival Reloading Kit. Here are items off the top of my head.


Portable outdoors kit

1.Lee Hand press
2.Dies for each caliber
3.Lee auto prime or similar
4.Steel wool for cleaning case
5.Primers sr, lp lr, as needed. Work up a load for pistols using sr for more flexibility.
6.Powder that is usable across several calibers for flexibility.
7.dipper for each caliber made from spent casing of that caliber and cut down to correct amount /with wire handle soldered on.
8.boolits for each caliber. Limit to one choice for each caliber.
9.case lube



Add these items for survival kit
1.two cavity mould for each caliber. Should be something that can be shot as cast.
2.One set of mould handles
3.metal ladle with wooden handle that a couple of WWs can be melted in over an open fire
4.Bottle of Alox

Can anyone think of essentials to include that I have missed? The idea is to keep it as simple as possible.Survival kit? Do you have any idea of the bulk and weight of what you have in mind? If you refer to what you can carry, think in terms of additional ammunition and be done. If you refer to accouterments you will be putting in your truck to futz around with at the range or while hunting, your universe becomes infinitely greater than what you have identified.

[mroliver77]

I agree on just carrying a stash of ammo. We dont have a definate situation described here. I have what I call a "drop over the hill pack" or "bugout pack" and it got heavy very fast. Water is heavy!!
Why carry lead ingots when you can carry already cast boolits? At the most I would only want a Lyman type mould/ loader tool and some primers. I am very resourceful. Carrying my fridge with me is the hardest obstacle to overcome. ;)
Jay

[southpaw]

My choice would be a flint lock...a roundball mould....extra flint......powder....ladle...lead..

Im with you on this one. I like the KISS method. My choice would be my lyman 54 rifle and 54 cal pistol ( for back, just in case a second shot is needed/wanted ). I would have to bring caps for the pistol tho.

Jerry Jr.

[jhrosier]

I happened to be heading to the loading cave, so I stopped and weighed some tools and some brass.

The Lee hand press, a 2-die set, and the auto-prime tool came to about 3 pounds.
That is about the same weight as 115 rounds of empty .308 brass.

In a survival situation, I think that I would choose to carry an extra 100+ rounds of loaded ammo rather than the tools.

I do have a field handloading kit for range use though. It is intended for load developement.

Jack

[6.5 mike]

I think I would look for an old lee loader in whatever cal's I felt I needed. It's going to have the primer de-capper/seater,powder dipper for that case & bullet seater you'ld need. Might be able to re-package it to take up less space.
In a real SHTF situation, this is not going to be your primary source of ammo anyway.
1 other thing I would include is a good 22. You can feed/defend yourself with one if needed & it doesn't take up much space. 200 rds of mixed 22, used right, will last a long time. Plus it weights less that a box of 38's. A 63 smith or one of the small charter arms would work just fine.

[jdgabbard]

jdgabbard (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=6396)'s post here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=569987&posted=1#post569987) got me to thinking about what to include in a Portable Outdoors/Survival Reloading Kit. Here are items off the top of my head.


Portable outdoors kit

1.Lee Hand press
2.Dies for each caliber
3.Lee auto prime or similar
4.Steel wool for cleaning case
5.Primers sr, lp lr, as needed. Work up a load for pistols using sr for more flexibility.
6.Powder that is usable across several calibers for flexibility.
7.dipper for each caliber made from spent casing of that caliber and cut down to correct amount /with wire handle soldered on.
8.boolits for each caliber. Limit to one choice for each caliber.
9.case lube



Add these items for survival kit
1.two cavity mould for each caliber. Should be something that can be shot as cast.
2.One set of mould handles
3.metal ladle with wooden handle that a couple of WWs can be melted in over an open fire
4.Bottle of Alox

Can anyone think of essentials to include that I have missed? The idea is to keep it as simple as possible.


To be honest with you. There are some suggestions that I could make. That would make things easier. First, look at my sig link to the Storage thread. Make up some of the boxes, fill them with the boolits you will be using, wrap 'em up. And put them in your kit. That way, you strike off the molds, the ladle, and the WWs. If you lube and size before hand, it will also get rid of the sizing dies, and the LLA or other lube.

As for primers, I have two suggestions. They should, first off, be stored in Ziplock baggies, but them sealed again in a Air/Water tight container. And secondly Only take the primers that you will need. More on this later in the post.

The Steel Wool is a non essential for this type of survival kit. Something else that would be more beneficial, and doubles in purpose would be a cleaning rod (segmented type) and a chore boy pad. The reason is for cleaning whatever leading you may get out of your barrels. And it could also be used to clean the excess lube out of fired cases, and to clean them up a bit. And it won't be as hard on your cases as steel will be.

As for you powder. A setup like this necessitates storage of powder in smaller containers. An unliked practice, but how would you like to carry say, two, different powders in 1lbs cans. Its too bulky. Find a smaller water tight container, and use the printer mailing labels (The large ones) with the the name of the powder, and listed charges for the calibers you will be carrying equipment for. Afterwards going over the labe with a clear box tape, so that it will not rub or bleed off, making the powder unidentifiable.

As for the dippers, good idea. My problem is that, while I am great at building rifles, great at welding custom parts for those rifles, I can't solder to save my life. And I don't think that brass takes well to it. As I've tried it a few times. Do what I decided to do. Spend $12 for the Lee dippers, and just take the two or three that you'll need.

Next lets talk about bulk. ONLY TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE!!! Don't take 4 sets of dies, 500 boolits for each caliber, ect, ect. Take a set of dies for both the ONE rifle you'd have, and the ONE pistol you'd have. Leave the rest at home. This is designed so you can grab it, and a few other items like food, and go. You're not going to be needing dies for everything you own out in the woods. And hopefully you'll already have some ammo stored with your guns. My rule of thumb, take a hundred boolits for rifle and another hundred for pistol. Two packages of primers, one rifle one pistol. And the dies and equipment you have to have to load those 200 boolits.

Remember, this is kinda a SHTF / COMEDWECIV (Complete Melt Down of Western Civilization) type of Kit. Something in case another Katrina happens, you can grab it and go. In case there is a major disaster, you can grab it and go.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Jdgabbard, you are on track for what this is meant to be, as I see it. A kit you can grab and go with. There is no way to cover every situation that may arrise, but at least one can prepare for the situation they are most likely to encounter in their "own" environment.

Going to war {as in "Red Dawn"} situation, is where you would take your weapons for fighting an enemy invading your country. Living off the land survival in a disaster situation is a different situation. If you are in the aftermath of a nuclear event, I don't know that it makes a lot of difference. There is no "One Size Fits All" for this one. IMHO.

[rhead]

Have you tried weighing all the equipment you will be using to reload, and mold in the field? Compare that weight to an equal weight of brass, that is the only weight you will be saving. You will still have to carry the powder and boolits and primers. Determine how many rounds you will be gaining and which way will yield the most firepower. A loaded round is probably the most efficient way to carry powder and primers in the field.

[jdgabbard]

Have you tried weighing all the equipment you will be using to reload, and mold in the field? Compare that weight to an equal weight of brass, that is the only weight you will be saving. You will still have to carry the powder and boolits and primers. Determine how many rounds you will be gaining and which way will yield the most firepower. A loaded round is probably the most efficient way to carry powder and primers in the field.

Very true. However, in many cases the the ammo is bulkier then what the minimal equipment would be. And not to mention that having the items on hand gives you the ability to resupply at a later time. And depending on what your loading if you are taking light weight boolits, you may actually save quite a bit of weight compared to loaded ammo and the weight of its brass. Many things factor in, but I'd like the flexibility to know that when I get back down to my southern home, I can grab some of my stock pile from there and continue into the mountains.

You see, I live in Tulsa, but I have two homes in the mountains in Southeastern Oklahoma. One, the town house has a reloading bench. But the cabin doesn't, and won't. But If I can take the basic necessities with me, then I'm good to go. Get the idea?

[jdgabbard]

Oh and for the record, I'm not worried about bulk. As MY bug-out kit consists of my old LCE with

*Two pistol Mag pouches for my Ruger PC9 Carbine - Each holding 2 15rd Mags
*A Holster for my S&W 65
*A basic Med pouch with Israeli Bandage, and other basic stuff
*Canteen with Pouch
*A Large Buttpack with the following:
-Poly Pro Top
-Log Starter Sticks (Wax and Sawdust with a Huge Match head on the Top)
-A couple of Bic Lighters and a Snuff can full of Dryer Lint
-Pocho and Compressed Liner
-2 Broke Down MREs (Main Courses Only)
-A pocket knife and a Multi-Tool
-Small Flashlight with spare bulb and Batters
-Two Speed Loaders that are loaded.
-Water Purification Tablets

The entire thing as is weighs maybe 10lbs. You throw a lightweight kit, and a few cloths into a small backpack for the trip and you're coming to what? Like maybe 15 lbs.

I don't know about you guys, but I've done 20 mile ruck marches with a 60lbs Ruck, 30lbs of Body Armor, a 3lbs Helmet, and a LCE loaded down with ammo, water, not to mention the extra stuff. 15lbs is nothing should I have to go afoot.

[jcwit]

Might want to rethink the sr primers for pistols. They may stick up out of the case and could cause problems.
A small cast iron pot would make it easier to melt and flux the lead

Not a problem with Small Rifle as they are the same size as Small Pistol. Handguns with a light spring may give ignition problems.

Different story with Large Rifle as they are larger ie; longer, than Large Pistol and possible give slam fires. Not the safest thing to do. Also may hinder rotation on a revolver.

[jdgabbard]

Different story with Large Rifle as they are larger ie; longer, than Large Pistol and possible give slam fires. Not the safest thing to do. Also may hinder rotation on a revolver.

I don't think they are that much of a difference that it really matters. Besides, ever time I've seated LP primers in a pistol case I've noted how they typically are a little below the bottom of the case. Not much, but I can tell they are a little. I think the pockets are probably cut the same.

[jcwit]

Primers are to be seated .003 to .005 thousands below flush. Read the manuals as to using Lg. rifle primers in pistol cases. There is a real difference, can very possible give you BAD problem and a very BAD experience. Small = No Problem. Large = Not good.

[McKee Boykin]

You're going to need a screwdriver to change moulds!

[Catshooter]

jd,

My idea for your bag is to go with the Lyman tong tool. Since they only neck size, sooner or later you need to full length so I would also have the sizing chamber for the caliber.

I think one key item is, when you're building your kit, use it. Load up 10 rounds using nothing not in the kit. That will show you any holes you may have.

Lee makes a four pound lead pot that is not cast iron, it's pressed steel. Much lighter.

It's good to have your bases covered. I'd bet that some of the nay-sayers in this thread are also short of primers these days too!


Cat

[beagle]

That was a good article but then he did another article on "the" survival gun and came to the concensus with Dobe Grant that a .22 rifle and an adequate supply of ammo was the optimum survival gun.

'Fraid I have to agree./beagle


Skeeter Skelton did an artical on this for Shooting Times many years ago.
IIR his was a Lyman tong tool set up for .357M and rolled up in a GI tool rug.
Wish that I had clipped it,--MMmmm, maybe I did. Better look tommorrow.
Pepe Ray















skeeter Skelton did an artical on this many years ago

[geargnasher]

Good food for thought, but I live in an area not prone to natural disasters so the sort of preparation my wife and I have made is to Trench In an defend what we have. We feel that the odds are in our favor to stay vs. head out on foot. That being said, I have been thinking about the ultimate survival kit for my 4x4 Blazer, it would include all the reloading and casting supplies I could fit in a couple of 30 cal ammo cans and, as has been suggested, a centerfire rifle/pistol combo. The idea would be to carry a few boxes of loaded ammo but that powder and primers for, say, another 2,000 rounds of .357 Magnum would weigh just over 2 lbs whereas 2,000 loaded rounds would weigh something like 60 lbs. The barest reloading essentials would be a few more pounds, but the weight savings is obvious. I would plan on scrounging lead (as has been said, plenty of ww everywhere even if one has to steal them in the dark of night to survive).

I do agree with those who have mentioned that for the SHTF, grab'n'git bag we should probably all have by our back doors a brick of good .22 ammo and a 10-22 can keep one going for a year or two, or could be used against bad guys to obtain better guns/ammo. Still, I'd have to have a very compelling reason to leave my home and land, for I know I would never see it again or enjoy what it meant to me. The best survival kit I could imagine would be all of my friends showing up to my property with lotsa food, guns, ammo, lead, propane tanks, a few head of meat animals, canning supplies, sugar, salt, flour, medicines, travel trailers, extra diesel fuel and gas, a large diesel generator, maybe a small tractor, extra cylinders of welding gasses, empty sandbags, garden vegetable seeds, heck it would be a party! [smilie=p::drinks::redneck:

We could make just about anything we don't have, could move as a caravan if moving was necessary, and could defend against the only real threats I think we would encounter here: Armed desperate theives/raiders from across the border or hungry locals who try to force me, and the poverty/hunger/loss of infrastructure that would come from a slow (or a sudden) economic collapse of our country.

WOW. Sorry for the ramblingl, should have posted in off-topic instead of cast boolits!

Gear

[1Shirt]

A brick or two of 22LR, half HP, half Stinger non HP, a scoped 10-22, (3x9 good quality) or similar, and a Ruger single six would be my choice. The alternative to that would be an Over/Under 22/410 with a hundred rounds of 410, of which half would be the 3 ball loads. To that I would add the best leatherman, a top of the line leatherman, and a good quality compass.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[303Guy]

You see, I live in Tulsa, but I have two homes in the mountains in Southeastern Oklahoma. One, the town house has a reloading bench. But the cabin doesn't, and won't. But If I can take the basic necessities with me, then I'm good to go. Get the idea? I was wondering what you had in mind! Might I suggest aluminum pots and ladles?

Have you considered paper patching? (I have just discovered this art). This can be done with no sizing dies. Not for bullet and not for cases. But the big advantage is that you get no leading and apparently, more powerful loads. If you lube the patches, then there is no bore corrosion either - it's already 'oiled'. Just a thought.

This is my as cast, paper patched and lubed bullet.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-795F.jpg

[dakotashooter2]

While the idea sounds good I'm not sure it is really practical. I have to agree that the supplies and gear are gonna weight as much and more than just taking the loaded ammo. Same goes for bulk. Then there is the risk that one or more of the components could get separated or damaged and make the whole mess worthless.

That said it still wouldn't be a bad idea to have a set of basic loading tools stashed should a supply of powder and primers be scavanged later on. In a wartime senario it might be possible to pull apart captured ammo and salvage the components to reload yours.

[jhalcott]

With MY health problems,an extended trek would be out of the question. My wife has another set of physical problems. I DO have a reloading bench at home and a decent supply of components. I would therefore, HAVE to "trench in" and wait for the good guys to arrive or the inevitable death by starvation!

[JesterGrin_1]

I think a few were right and I was a bit wrong. The little .22 would be the way to go. You can carry a bunch of ammo for little weight. That is unless you are somewhere that you might worry about some critter that may eat you lol. Then a pistol is say .357MAG or .44 Mag and a few rounds of say 100 should last a very long time if only used when needed and the .22 used the rest of the time. :)

[MT Gianni]

My kit is a SAvage 24 22 lr x 20 gauge. 75 rds of shot shells, 25 #3 buck and a brick of 22 LR. Which ever pistol I need on my hip would get some ammo thrown in also. 9, 45, 44 or 357.

[sheepdog]

Survival kit? Do you have any idea of the bulk and weight of what you have in mind? If you refer to what you can carry, think in terms of additional ammunition and be done. If you refer to accouterments you will be putting in your truck to futz around with at the range or while hunting, your universe becomes infinitely greater than what you have identified.

Thats what I was thinking. Heck I cast and reload so I can say the good stuff for SHTF. My truck would be 85% water, 10% food, 5% medical/tools/guns/ammo. Besides I plan on doing my surviving sittin on ****, not hiking in the woods.

[badgeredd]

I realize that this thread is winding down, but I just found something that MIGHT influence some thoughts on the survival kit. Please follow the link...that save me a lot of typing and it'll be CORRECT!.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellSkeetersBullets.htm

thanks,

Edd

[Old Ironsights]

Well, this all begs the BoB question, but my BoB gun(s) are both .357s. (Rossi Lever & SP101)

I keep a Lee Classic Loader, 1K SMP primers, 1K GCs, 2# of 2400, 100 rds Factory ammo, a 358156HP mould, a Lee Push Through sizer and a casting ladle in my "BoB"/Long term camping/hunting/survival bag.

In a pinch I can "aquire" WW, though if I knew that I was going to a cabin/static campground/cave there would be some Ingots buried there waiting for me.

That would keep me going for 1K shots (10 reloadings of OEM brass) while I was either relaxing in the woods or scrounging for supplies.

-------EDIT---------

Hey... it looks like Skeeter & I agree on the bullet & powder!

The problem I have with .22 is that you HAVE to haul a buttload of ammo. Once it's shot up, it's shot up... and you have a tomato stake. Just look at the availability of .22 ammo right now and extrapolate...

OTOH, 158gr Cat Sneeze loads are just a quiet and hit a lot harder... and can be used again. 500 Small Pistol/Rifle primers fit quite nicely into a 35mm film canister. I can make powder if I need to and I have a WW plier if I need it. None of that is any help with an empty .22