Range dudes

[rbstern]

I get very little range time, so I consider it a precious resource. Earlier in the week, I decided to play hookey from work this morning so I could haul some reloading gear to the range, get some trigger time in front of the chrono, do some reloads right there to fine tune, and maybe whack some soda cans as a finale.

Did several hours of prep work last night, sizing and priming brass, cleaning barrels, organizing gear, making a test list of what I want to try.

Morning comes. Pack up the truck. Drive the 40 or so miles to the range. Get there and one older gent is already there, sighting in a Rem 7400. Seems nice enough. Was struggling with his scope. Asks me a couple of questions about scope adjustment, I do the best I can to answer him. Then, he decides he's going to tell me about every deer he's shot in the last four or five years, complete with details of which ones he couldn't recover...pretty much all of them, it seemed.

Anyway, I listen patiently, not wanting to be rude. I've hauled about 75 pounds of gear to the range in hopes of having a few quiet hours to do load development, but this guy really wants to tell me about the deer. The stories finally end about forty five minutes later and I get to fire my first shot. :-|

Then, two more old gents show up. Also nice guys. Despite appearing to be experienced with firearms, they seem to have little concept of range discipline. The next hour is spent with them shooting ten or so 22 rounds, then slowly walking the 100 yards to the backstop, half a dozen times, with no communication about whether the range is hot or cold. I was caught off guard once without hearing protection when I thought the range was cold and one of the guys starts blasting....I know, just a .22, but in a covered and semi-walled shooting area, on a concreate pad, it's still loud.

Half the range time was gone and I had completed only one of five tests I had in mind. Argh!!!! Sort of lost my focus at that point and just started blasting cans and jugs, because I knew I wasn't going to accomplish what I intended.

Sorry, I'm ranting. Don't mean to be a jerk. I always treat everyone I meet at the range with respect and fairness. I just wish older folks would respect that not everyone is retired, empty nested, and flush with all kinds of time to kill.

[mooman76]

I know exactly what you mean. I go out in the desert to shoot because I don't care for the range circus. About 2 years ago I met someone out there, an older guy and he is real nice. He reloads also but ...... He is very condisending to me at times. Makes me feel like a kid that doesn't know anything. I know he has be reloading for over 40 years and I've only been doing it for 3, but it's like he learned to load 40 years ago and stuck to what he learned then. He tells me things that I know are wrong but I really do like the guy.
He reached over and started adjusting my sights on my M1 carbine. He had one in Korea so he knows allot but right or wrong you don't just adjust someones sights. I feel kind of bad because he has helped me allot and even given me reload gear he considered excess but I avoid going where he is at and on the days he goes because he makes me uncomfortable when I try to get serious shooting done. He even wanders down range without notice. He is fully retired and all he does is load and shoot.
He asks me where I've been when he see's me and he doesn't seem to understand I still work for a living and when I go shoot which isn't near as often as I like I have things of my own to get done!

[Jumptrap]

Well, you hit a nerve of mine that is constantly festered. That is exactly why I avoid any public range entirely!

They are always habituated by know it alls, boors, and old ******** who have lived their life and half of somebody elses.

I can be a social critter, but when I am shooting, I want to be left alone and don't want anybody in my way...nuisances. Most have nothing to say I want to hear, them that talk alert me to how much they know in about 30 seconds. As you mention, nothing like getting there with all your goodies and wanting to accomplsih something and all the while some dick is crawling down to the target every shot to 'see whar thet thar bullet went'. They are never in a hurry, have nothing else to do and if they get what they came to do done, that's all that matters to them...to hell with you. Then you have some moron who drags Jr. to the range with him to teach him how to shoot Grandpaws elerfant rifle. The litle bastard is as lost a ball in tall weeds and his old man ain't far behind...my BP goes up 40 points, my teeth grate on edge and I pack up and leave, before they shoot me or I kill them. The only other thing that compares is eating out. you go to a buffet and the damned people (old women the very worst) will knock you down in order to get ahead of you, they'll cut line or reach across your food grabbing something...pisses me to no end.

What to do? A: stay home and the hell away from these cretins or, B: get your own place (like I did) and enjoy yourself.

[montana_charlie]

Well, you hit a nerve of mine...
know it alls, boors, and old ********...nuisances....some dick...some moron who drags Jr. to the range...The little bastard...the damned people (old women the very worst)
...pisses me to no end.

What to do? A: stay home and the hell away from these cretins or, B: get your own place (like I did) and enjoy yourself.
Well, Jumptrap, with a generous helping of A and an equal amount of B, it looks like you are well on your way to becoming the crotchety old hermit down at the end of the road.
The one that nobody cares if he is doing well...or been dead a week.

But, that's your business...
CM

[sundog]

yup, ole jtcurmudgeon.... Ya know what, Jump? "Y'aint fer off, fella." And, I'm abettin' y'all understand that.... sundog

[eka]

Jump,

[smilie=l:

Thanks for the laugh. You speak the truth.

Keith

[Jumptrap]

Well, Jumptrap, with a generous helping of A and an equal amount of B, it looks like you are well on your way to becoming the crotchety old hermit down at the end of the road.
The one that nobody cares if he is doing well...or been dead a week.

But, that's your business...
CM

Ask me if I give a damn.

[NVcurmudgeon]

The range I frequent is open Friday through Monday. I prefer to go Monday, when 90% of the shooters are crusty old geezers. Even then, you still might run into some young'uns getting ready for a tactical (latest meaningless buzzword) match. Those guys can chatter more and shoot less than anybody I ever heard tell of!

[Jumptrap]

One other thing;

These menfolks here have been my cyber companions for what..5 years or so now?

I said it before and I'll say it again, this little part of Hell's half acre (8 to be exact) belongs to me and I do as I please..which isn't much. But, the door is always open and one of these days, I hope a select crowd will gather here for a shootin', tradin', a few good fires, cold beer and a good time. There isn't but 2 good seasons in Kentucky, spring and fall. Hot and humid as hell come summer. But those glorious days of May and then in October make the other 10 months bearable. May is out for this year..too many irons in the fire already, but October is wide open as of right now. be nice if we could have a rendezvous, spread the blankets and trinkets, roast a pig and sling some lead and drown our sorrows with cold beer. Ric could bring down a few sqauws for us to pass around for entertainment. HAR!

[Scrounger]

Or someone from Texas could bring some sheep...

[BorderBrewer]

Hi rbstern,
Don't let it eat at you. Try to have some patience with the old gentlemen because God willing, you will be there someday too.

[Buckshot]

..............rbstern I can understand your consternation over having to fudge a day at work to go shoot, and then drive 40 miles to do it and have it interupted.

I'm really blessed in having a nice range 4.2 miles from my house, so my circumstances are different.

http://www.fototime.com/77C4C55BCF39E72/standard.jpg

Covered, paved, 26 concrete benches, 50 ft long pistol line, manned and supervised Tuesday through Sunday, with called breaks. I'm also blessed with having great company every Tuesday, which is range day. Nothing messes with range day. My wife knows, my dentist knows, the rest of my family knows that you do NOT schedule anything on Tuesday if you expect me to be there :-)

On a weekday you get the old retired guys, and a few guys like me whose work shift has weekdays as days off. Each Tuesday I look forward to seeing the Burrito Bunch, which is Deputy Al, El Pistolero, Larry, Glen, and on occasion Leonard. Our number has dwindled due to death and moving out of state, but still a great bunch.

There's a group of older guys who shoot together who are there on Tuesdays also, amongst their number are a couple retired gunsmiths and machinist or two. If you look up the line (they shoot about midway of the line) you'll usually see them sitting at their benches BS'ing mostly.

We've tried to recruit new people to our weekly Burrito Invitational, but inadvertantly we've put some apparently severe restrictions in place. One is that we shoot cast lead, secondly we do it standing up, and finally we use iron sights. When you cast and shoot your own boolits, you have immediately removed yourself from mainstream shooters.

..................Buckshot

[Junior1942]

>Morning comes. Pack up the truck. Drive the 40 or so miles to the range.

If I were you, I'd move. The bench for my shooting range was on my front porch until a week ago when my nephew moved a house trailer onto the range. As soon as he gets settled in we're moving the bench to a side window in my front bedroom. Then we'll clear a path for a new 150 yard range. I'll have an air conditioned combination shooting and reloading room!

[Bret4207]

For all you new-bies who aren't aware, Jumptrap is Resident President of the Cast Boolit Shooters Glee Club. It takes a while to figure him out, but he's really softer than the Sta-Puft Marshmallow man. HAR!!!!

[RugerFan]

rbstern,
Where in Georgia are you at? I shoot at the Clybel WMA range southeast of Atlanta. I have to drive 42 miles to shoot, so I know your pain. I refuse to shoot on saturdays to avoid the mobs. I only shoot on weekdays when I can get off work early. I am also tired of "sharing" range time and intend to buy a few acres of land just to have my own place to shoot.

[rbstern]

rbstern I can understand your consternation over having to fudge a day at work to go shoot, and then drive 40 miles to do it and have it interupted. Buckshot, I do work for myself, so at least the boss isn't mad at me. :)


If I were you, I'd move. My family's needs comes before before my hobbies. We live in a nice 'hood near an excellent school, my wife's family is nearby, friends, etc. In other words, our roots are strong here, and that is far more important to my family's well-being than my need to blast tin cans.

Someday, maybe I'll buy some land or my wife and I will move when we finally retire. Then I can talk some poor youngster's ear off at the range down the street..


Where in Georgia are you at? I'm in Gwinnett. I shoot at Wilson Shoals WMA, up in Banks County, about 15 miles north of Gainesville.

[mooman76]

I did forget to mention I have only been to a few ranges al though I have seen many. One range that comes to mind that I liked was a small range on the side of a mountain in UT. It is run by the Elks club if I remember right and it's on the back side of town. It has the military style pits so you can go down range 100 y and flip your target down to check it while the shootin is still going. It only cost a few bucks to to get in but the people are always friendly and willing to help you out if they can.

[Frank46]

Jumptrap, I can well sympathize with you. I had a target set up at 50yds one time and daddy waltzes in with junior. I HAD intended to use that target to sight in my 870 wingmaster with the slug barrel. Well junior waltzes down to the target during the cease fire and proceeds to shoot it full of holes with his bb gun. Then when its time to shoot junior starts messing with my spotting scope without asking. Well with my blood pressure way up there I go see daddy. I explain that he should watch his son and relate what happened. Nicely of course. Well he basically tells me to mind my own business. Then I asked him if he was a member. His reply was no. He was then told to leave and take his son with him. I also told him that members pay $100 a year to shoot and while they are allowed guests that member is responsible for their actions. Well daddy packs up his stuff and says loudly "I'll never be back here". I said you'd be welcome if you were a member but your son needs lessons in range manners. Especially messing around with other folks equipment. Sad to say I have seen this happen more than once. Besides that kid was a liability that the club could not afford. Frank

[Flash]

There is nothing better than to hear a story about a few senior citizens STILL being able to enjoy the shooting sports. Some older fellas I meet at the range have stories to tell that remind me about my youth and own experiences with their stories just adding to the list. The sad part is that we'll all get to the point where we can't see good enough, shoot good enough or act coherent enough to impress the generations following us. This testing ground is when the part of humanity really shines and we're welcomed by that younger generation who can do better in all aspects of life but they still share their time with us. Gosh, don't we all hope they won't be selfish and have little time for us??

[nighthunter]

I have to go along with Flash on this one. I have wittnessed enough incidents and tolerated my share of BS from folks that aren't of the senior citizen class. As Frank46 pointed out, sometimes its youngsters that don't have range manners. I once saw 2 guys sighting in for deer season where one of the 2 stood beside the target at 100 yards so he could put his finger over the bullet holes in the target as his companion shot them. Talk about a scarey situation. Some folks just forget to bring common sense with them when heading to the range. As to the " Old BSrs " .... Some of them have some good stories. I enjoy most of the older shooters I meet at the range. I just hope I'm still getting to the range if I make it to thier age.
Nighthunter

[bruce drake]

Sort of like this photo

[Newtire]

Remember taking my son to the range often from the time when he was 8-yrs. old up to the time when he got his driver's license & I hardly see him anymore. I thought it was pretty cool the way he mostly outshot the other people around us. He was always about the safest guy there too. One time though, he made the mistake of shooting some other guy's tin-cans at the 40-yd. range & the guy came over & told us that it was not good manners to shoot other people's targets. I told the guy that we didn't mean anything & were sorry but we got a chuckle that my son was able to knock them down & this guy couldn't hit them.
Sad to see the lack of training some folks have and their bad manners. Guess they never had a Dad to take them to the range & teach them things the right way. Kid's will make mistakes though just like Dad's do sometimes. Kind of gets a Dad's dander up having some guy yelling at his kid though. Make sure you talk to the Dad, not the kid.
A couple of weeks ago, there was a curious kid at the range asking about my gun and I let him shoot it after asking his Dad if it would be OK. Take the little extra time. Kid's won't be around forever. When they get their driver's licenses and are gone, that's when you are glad (or not) about the time you gave some young kid. Thank you ladies & gentlemen. "Good Nite & Good Luck!"

[rbstern]

Flash, I truly enjoy talking to seniors when I've had the a chance to get to know them a little, just as with any of my other friends. But seniors who a strangers, hanging out at a place like a firing range, are often a bit unique in that they will begin to talk in depth about topics, whether or not you asked a question or indicated you have time to listen.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, I make $35/hour. I decide to take time off from work, knowing I'm walking away from that money, to do something I truly want to do. If we don't know each other, and you decide you are going to talk to me for an hour, telling me about your life, your hunting, your land, etc., without even telling me your name first, you are "spending" my $35 for your satisfaction. My upbringing and manners won't allow me to disrespect you by shutting you down, so I patiently listen while you fulfill your need to talk.

Would you walk up to me at the range, pull my wallet out of my pocket, remove $35, put my wallet back, and assume I enjoyed the experience? Of course not.

When doing my own thing, I can be as self-absorbed as the next guy, but try to watch people closely when talking to someone I just met, for signs of disinterest. I don't want to waste other's time and assume they want to hear what I'm flapping my gums about. It's not my place to do so. If they ask me questions and prompt me to continue, that's different.

My previous trip to the range, had a great convesation with a senior I met that day. Neither of us was in a hurry, so I sat down next to him when he seemed to want to talk, and we had a terrific give-and-take about all manner of things.

[carpetman]

rbstern---I will send you a bill for the time it took me to read your post and to type out this response. It takes time away from my job. I'm retired so I have to work full time making sure I don't work. I do a good job of it too. I get pay raises every year in my retirement,so I know I'm doing it right.

[Flash]

rbstern,
I guess that I separate verbal communication and human interaction from the things that I place a monetary value on. I work in a retirement community/sub-acute care facility and truely enjoy the interaction with the residents. People of that generation were the ones that taught me, faught and died for me, worked so hard to build a country of which we all can be proud of. My Father is near the end of his life and there will come a day when I long for the sound of his voice and the touch of his hand. He, is of that generation which you describe as bothersome and is always willing to share his knowledge of firearms. I cringe at the thought of someone not having the time to listen and perhaps learn from him.
No, I would not take your wallet or waste any of your time. One thing I will do is pitty you for not being able to stop and "Smell the Roses" in life. We are people who can enjoy one another and in the face of one of the most dangerous periods in our history, Ronald Reagan proved it can happen. Sorry if I have wasted your time.

[Blacktail 8541]

I love to talk and enjoy my encounters with seniors, but there are times that I do not have any extra time available. On those days it is my usual practice to talk only after each evolution is complete. If I have another person that wants to talk I just ask them to wait until I have finished my string of fire or what ever I'm doing that needs my undivded attention. Most people at the range will understand this and will wait patiently if they really want to talk. On the other side of the coin if I am wanting to talk I wait untill they are on a natural break in the fireing or whatever they are doing. If the conversation is going on to long I just say hold on a minute and I will be right back after I do what needs doing. I pace the conversation so it goes on so that I can acomplish what I went to the range to do.

[rbstern]

carpetman, you miss the distinction between what I described and your parody: You can politely choose to participate, or not, with no concern for my feelings. Furthermore, we are here to communicate, so it is reasonable to assume that both you and I want some form of communication. It's an important difference. As I've already stated, I won't act rudely in the situation I described, so I just politely listen.

Flash, I do stop to smell the roses. But can't do it all the time and won't always be happy when a stranger decides that the few hours I have in the course of a month for range time are for his gratification. Being old isn't a license to be selfish, nor is it an automatic pass for sincere respect. Casual respect is always offered. Deep respect is earned. Seniors are like all folks. Most are nice, some are scoundrels who don't deserve the time of day. I don't know who I am dealing with at the range, but if a guy I just met goes on for 45 minutes talking about whatever is important to him without introducing himself or bothering to find out my name, chances are he's not going to get my sincere respect and that will probably be the only conversation (monologue) we have.

I'll be the first guy to volunteer to change a target for a senior who has a bum hip, or carry stuff to/from his car. If time allows, I'll not only listen, I'll engage and ask questions, without interjecting my own life experiences.

But time doesn't always allow.

[StarMetal]

rbsterh,

About Carpetman. The movie One Flew Over The Cuckoo Nest, was actually about Carpetman. Jack Nichelson play the part of Carpetman in the movie. Unlike the movie, Carpetman didn't die. He escaped with the big Indian and is now at large in Texas writing humor in cast boolit posts. If you can't take time to enjoy a good laugh, you're wound up too tight from everyday stresses. Carpetman provides a relaxing refreshing sense if very weird humor to the forum to break the hum drums of life. Ocassionally he writes something half intelligent on topic too.

Me and Ray use to butt heads, but once I figured him out he's dang funny guy and a smart old bird too. Shucks, he can't be bad cause he'd from Texas.

Joe

[Scrounger]

Did Nicholson die or get a lobotomy? Maybe it IS CarpetMan, after the movie ends... :kidding:

My two cents on the subject in question: I'm with Jump and the others who go to the range to learn something. If an old fart is hanging out there just to talk, he's wasting his and my time. Better he should go to senior citizen social clubs, parks, etc to find ears. Those are his kind of people, not us. Yes, I could learn from him and he could learn from me, but if I don't encourage him or pay attention, he should figure out I'm not interested now and let it go.

[StarMetal]

First Nicholson got a lobotomy,but the Indian smothered him with a pillow because he felt sorry for him.

Reminds me of what an Oklahoma Indian once told me. He said: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, then a frontal lobotomy". Makes sense to me.

Joe

[Scrounger]

First Nicholson got a lobotomy,but the Indian smothered him with a pillow because he felt sorry for him.

Reminds me of what an Oklahoma Indian once told me. He said: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, then a frontal lobotomy". Makes sense to me.

Joe

That's right, I remember it now. The Indian was Will Sampson. He died not to long after that picture. You remember Nurse Rachet?

[Bass Ackward]

Personally, I think that a lot of actions at ranges are just distractions specifically to get people to move / leave. Regardless of age, and all usually laugh that the tactic worked except for the guy who vacated of coarse.

Hell, I always wondered why my first fishing outfit was a fly rod. Dad said that the first day of trout season was elbow to elbow and in no time, I had a spot cleared out that 10 guys could fish.

[redneckdan]

i actually enjoy going to the range where I work and talking with some of the older guys who show up. I used to try and sneak in some range time when things were slow but now I'd rather sit and talk; I never cease to be amazed at the stuff I learned. I'd been looking for years for info on how to do a trigger job on my remington 512, one guy explained to me how to do it in 15 minutes; it worked too. I beleive taking time to stop and listen is well worth it. If I have loads to test, I go on friday night when i have the range all to myself, the wonders of having a range key! Though I do get harassed for not having anything better to do on friday night...

[redneckdan]

Hell, I always wondered why my first fishing outfit was a fly rod. Dad said that the first day of trout season was elbow to elbow and in no time, I had a spot cleared out that 10 guys could fish.


I do the same, put away the the little 3wt. bust out the 7wt steelhead rod and start slinging a #2 cone head muddler minnow, guys clear out quick, fast and in a hurry.

[StarMetal]

Art,

Yup, remember the nurse. I didn't know the Indian died though, what from? He couldn't have been very old, was he?

My favorite line in the movie is when they all escape and were about to steal a boat and the one fellow said "We can't do this, it's against the law", Nicholson replied with "Hell.....we're crazy, we can do anything". You know, there's an awful lot of truth in that.

Joe

[Blackwater]

You boys with an honest to gosh RANGE ought to consider yourself lucky! The local powers that be declared some time ago that there'd NEVER be a public range in my county! And I'm in southeastern GEORGIA!!! Imagine THAT!!!

Also, a man CAN just nicely tell another that he'd like to chat, but he's got some important testing to do, and ask to be excused. This ain't really a big problem, that I can see at least.

Y'all just remember how dang LUCKY you are. I love shooting on the lower 40, but .... sure would be nice to meet some like minded cast shooters at an honest to gosh range. The rest can be taken care of without much effort, and the rewards of a public range far outweigh the problems entailed. Believe me!

[omgb]

Generally, things at the Angeles range have been OK. The range masters there make sure everybody is playing by the rules. At SanFancisquito Canyon, things are less closely regulated but still safe and controlled. I prefer to go on week days as the weekend crowd is most likely to contain the rude, ill-mannered types. Oft times, there is just three of us on a week day so we call our own cease-fires and observe gentleman's ediquete. Any of us who has been to a public range has seen the boorish types. Occasionally we run into a dangerous idiot. One thing I have observed that has always mystified me... it seems that there is an inverse relationship between the height of the shhoter and the caliber of his handgun. Usually, I see Asian men with huge magnums or 45s and tall, 6"+ types with 9mms and 380s. Not always to be sure, but often enough to raise an eyebrow.

If you live in either the San Fernando or Santa Clarita Valleys, the Angeles range and the San Fancisquito ranges can't be beat. Oak Tree gun club is great for shot gunning but at almost $18.00 a pop for the pistol range I choose not to indulge.

BTW, the short route to San Fancisquito is now open for those who have been going the long way around. Does anyone know if Tom had the back surgery yet and if so, how's he doing?

[FISH4BUGS]

I shoot outdoors in a 100yd range w/ a 25 year berm. I often will take one of my submachineguns to the range. If you want a conversation starter, try ripping off a full clip with a sub gun. It certainly does get people curious. It gives one a chance to tell people about MG ownership and the rules for owning. If they have their own FACTORY ammo, I'll let them shoot the subgun. Most have never fired a machine gun, and the smile doesn't go away for hours.
Never had a problem.

[Frank46]

Bugs, a fellow shooter at our range had an H&K MP5 with a silencer on it. He calls me over and says do you want to shoot it??. Is the pope catholic???. Like you said the smile did not go away for hours. Some on single shot, some on 3rd burst and the rest at full auto. Man what fun. Frank

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sort of like this photo

With less than satisfactory range safety, make sure the dills can see you and keep earplugs in at all times in case you cop another blast, losing your hearing is no fun at all.

The plugs will help you get rid of the wafflers too. Don't stop setting up while they are talking to you, be polite at all times, get them to help carry your gear if they follow you to the car and when you are set up, politely excuse yourself and say, 'man I gotta get this thing sooting or I'll never catch up to your score' or something funny like that. Don't just stand there because by doing this you are signalling that you are actively involved in the conversation. Be polite, but firm and use body language to signal you are going to stop talking now and start shooting. If they persist, say something like 'If you will excuse me, I've got live ammo out now and I don't want to get muddled up and have an accident' smile and turn away and take up position behind the gun.

If they are dumb enough to persist, wave them to stop, clear the gun, get them to inspect it and then remove your ear muffs plugs and plugs and ask them what is wrong. There must certainly be something wrong as they stopped you when you were in the middle of shooting live ammo.

Be polite at all times.

As to poor range safety, get onto the controlling body (club level at first and ask them about it. If they have any brains, they will want a safe range).

cast about for another range, there may be something available.

[Linstrum]

Hey there, guys. Sounds interesting!

I got to shoot a machine gun once, I was ten years old, and at the county fair the California National Guard had a display set up including a 105 mm recoilless rifle mounted on the back of a Jeep and a 1919 Browning machine gun on a mount. It was the first time I ever got a big face full of hot smokeless powder smoke - - - and I still love the smell! The fairgrounds were down at the beach in Ventura (California) and they had bulldozed up a big pile of sand in a "U" shape and fenced it off with rows of concertina wire. It was the middle of the day on the first day of the fair, which was a Wednesday and very few folks were there. The second lieutenant manning the NG display was bored and I was his only customer, so he said: "Hey, kid! Wanna shoot my machine gun?" He showed me how to hold on to the grip and aim it plus showed me the trigger. He put in a linked belt made up of live rounds with every fifth tracer round being replaced with a dummy to deliberately halt fire after four rounds, clanked the cover shut, pulled the cocking lever, and told me: "Look down the sights at the pile of sand and aim at the oil drum then pull the trigger HARD." Four 150-grain fmj .308 bullets at about 2750 feet per second went through the oil drum and into the sand, I was totally deaf for a few minutes - - - and in love! He wouldn’t let me shoot his 105mm recoilless, though. My next military shooting encounter was on a Navy tugboat just a few years later. The tug was out of Port Hueneme Naval Construction Battalion Headquarters otherwise called "The CB Base" and used for taking military enlisted men for deep sea fishing R&R off of Anacapa Island, about fifteen miles of the coast from Ventura. A bunch of sharks got around the tug and into the fishing lines, so one of the sailors got The Garand and a pocket full of en bloc clips out of the arms locker and started shooting sharks. I was quite impressed again. I vowed that some day I was going to own those guns, but the only one that I ever managed to get was the Garand. I sure do love it, including the powder smoke. I call it “manly perfume”, or sometimes just “Chanel Number 4895”.

Hey, there, rbstern, I know exactly how you feel when somebody imposes or wastes your time. Your time is your time to do with as YOU please, not how the range dudes please, young or old, wise or dumb. Your time is the only thing that YOU own, which is why taking your time away from you is the major method of punishment used in this country. I don’t see any difference in losing a day of your time when somebody takes it away from you at the range with their mouth or locks you up for a day and takes it away with a jail key. The results are IDENTICAL, which is you lost time that that you will never see again or get back. I’m kind of surprised that some folks would think that you owe perfect strangers your time. Nobody owes someone else his or her time just because they are old. You are the one who decides if somebody you meet is interesting to you, or wise, it does not work the other way. If it did then every damned idiot you met would own a piece of you, and we get enough of that dictatorial crap and “talking down to us” and condescending blather from the liberal TV newscasters and liberal print news media along with the left wingers in government who think they are the only ones who are wise enough to rule us. A boor is a boor, young or old. Just like your guns are your guns. I sure would hate for somebody to dictate to me what to do with my guns, too, which is what happens when somebody gets in your face and monopolizes your time at the range. That is because the end results are identical, it is the same thing as telling you that you can’t shoot. It is just as effective in keeping you from shooting as if they reached over and yanked your gun right out of your hand, except they used their mouth instead. Yup, the way I feel about somebody taking my time is the same way I feel about somebody telling me I can’t shoot or taking my guns. I do think you have a good attitude because you said you are polite and try not to ruffle feathers. That is an admirable trait because the way the world works is on good faith. Without good faith nobody would give blood or donate bone marrow, kidneys would not get donated, volunteer work would not get done at hospitals, ugly nasty old trash would not get picked up on highways, and on and on right down to a baby’s diaper not getting changed. All that is done by good faith. Now with that said, you need to learn some polite ways to get the old boors off your back so you can shoot when you want without them being on you like flies on fresh meat. I like to shout in folks faces REAL LOUD, with lots of spit included: “WHAT? I CAN’T HEAR VERY WELL. TOO MANY DAMNED ROUNDS HERE AT THE RANGE WITHOUT HEARING PROTECTORS. SORRY, YOU’LL HAVE TO GO GET A PENCIL AND PAPER AND WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU WANT. OOPS, I FORGOT MY READING GLASSES”. That one works.

Good luck.

[FISH4BUGS]

Bugs, a fellow shooter at our range had an H&K MP5 with a silencer on it. He calls me over and says do you want to shoot it??. Is the pope catholic???. Like you said the smile did not go away for hours. Some on single shot, some on 3rd burst and the rest at full auto. Man what fun. Frank
You know, this is the best of BOTH worlds. I get to shoot a fair number of submachineguns, and machine guns, some supressed, and I get to cast bullets too. I thought I had died and gone to heaven when I found the H&G 10 cavity moulds. My 380 (#S55 - shot out of a MAC11A1) and 9mm (#310 shot out of a S&W 76 and MAC11) puts out a ton of great bullets. I just LOVE to shoot full auto. Hell....if you are going to shoot, then SHOOT!
I have taken the blame for more than one person getting hooked on full auto guns. They shoot one and love it. If they are willing to go through the crap to own one, then they get one. Lots of fun........
God, what a country! Live Free or Die in New Hampshire!

[Nazgul]

My father-inlaw just passed away 2 weeks ago. Poor guy had cancer and emphysema. He was on a riflerange in Texas in the Army when Pearl Harbor was hit. He was sent to the Aleution Islabds for the rest of the war. Like most he didn't say a lot about it. He did talk to me when we were alone sometimes. I built a shooting bench 30 feet from his door, had room for 300 yards. He would come out and tell whoever was shooting how everything should be done on any subject. Didn't get much shooting done sometimes. He doesn't qualify as a "Range dude".

Don't have to use the public ranges nearby because of his kindness.

[terminal gravity]

I go by a public range everyday that is maintained by the Pa game commission. Once a month the Game commission has to replace the 2x4 target frames because FREAKS like to shoot the wooden frames in half. Then they throw live ammo in the burn barrel. When I light the burn barrel, I run like hell:neutral: . I hope they dont close it down. (It is job security for them tho..[smilie=1: )

[Flash]

Yea, there is one range in South Central Pa that has the same problems. The back board posts are shot up, the trash barrels are filled with household garbage and the targets are left to blow around. I see it being closed soon unless this nonsense stops.