WW, AC, H2O Quenched, W/Tin & W/O

[Bigscot]

I was organizing some of my cast boolits and as I laid them out I had several "different" boolits from the same mould. The what I had done was cast some with and with out tin, air cooled some and water quenched some.
Now I cast for .44 mag and 30-30 so I am not pushing anything hard and use the boolits for plinking and hunting deer and smaller critters so I don't really need a hard boolit and if I don't need added tin then great!
Anyway, in the big picture of all this, I am mainly concerned with accuracy and my question is, does the addition of or lack of tin, air cooling or water quenching have any great affect on accuracy? Or is it more sizing to the correct bore size?

Just curious. Might save myself some headaches.

Bigscot

[44man]

The .44 with a large meplat can be hard and water dropping WW metal is all you need. Tin does nothing unless your mold is not filling nice, it makes the metal flow better.
The 30-30 is another story and you need some expansion for hunting. I would go to 50-50 WW and pure to start and maybe a hollow point too. They can be water dropped too for accuracy yet will still be ductile enough.
Only the deer shot will tell you how a boolit works.

[1Shirt]

Agree with 44Man, but would add a cup or so of mag shot for arsinec for the 30-30 particularly with HP's.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Larry Gibson]

I generally do a quick "smelt" of WWs fluxing when the tin clips and larger debri is removed. This is then poured into ingots. When these are the melted in the Lyman Mag 20 I add 2% tin. I do this for for several reasons.

Newer WWs are notoriously low on tin content. Larger bullets, like 44's or larger , generally cast well enough without the addition of tin. Smaller bullets without tin added do not cast as well. Many do not fill out in the grooves and drive bands. Weight variations are larger than I care for and I suspect I get a lot more voids inside the smaller bullets. Reject rate is much higher on visual inspeciton and then weighing the bullets makes it even worse.

Adding the 2% tin involves another fluxing which also removes any other imprurities. It also changes the alloy. Newer WWs have only about .5% tin and have a BHN around 9. Adding the 2% tin increases the hardness of the alloy to about 11-12 BHN.

I regularly shoot this alloy (WWs + 2% tin) upwards of 2900+ fps without WQing or heat treating using GC'd bullets. Accuracy is excellent and using Javelina lube I get no leading. With this alloy I can also drive PB'd handgun bullets to true magnum velocities (1350-1500 fps) with accuracy and no leading. PB'd bullets in my 8mm, 35 Rem, 375 H&H and 45-70 can be pushed to 1550-1600 fps with exceptional accuracy.

As I said, larger bullets can be cast very successfully with just plain WWs. However i've found the benifits of adding the tin to be benificial accross the spectrum of my cast bullet use with the exception of hunting cast bullets. With those i prefer expansion and go to a softer alloy. The useage of such bullets is minimal so the higher rate of rejection (I'm talking .30, .31 and 8mm here) is acceptable for the end state performance of the bullets on game.

Larry Gibson

[Boerrancher]

I also concur with 44man. I shoot a 50/50 mix of WW and pure. I use that alloy in everything, including my 30-30 and my 30-06. I don't add tin, and I don't water quench them. I have found that the most critical element for accuracy is the proper size, and the individual gun will let you know if you need to be bore size or 1, 2, or as much as or 5 thousandths over size. The second most important element in the equation is lube, not just the right kind of lube but the right amount. Too much or too little lube will create just as many problems with accuracy as an improperly sized boolit, and once again your gun will tell you what it needs.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Bigscot]

All else being the same, does anyone see any difference in accuracy w or w/o tin, quenched or not?

Bigscot

[44man]

All else being the same, does anyone see any difference in accuracy w or w/o tin, quenched or not?

Bigscot
That will depend on the gun and caliber. You just have to do your own testing with the gun you have.

[runfiverun]

not so much accuracy as the tim makes a tougher alloy by bonding with the antimony creating a stronger chain.
just don't go higher with your tin amount then you do with your antimonial content.
this causes hard spots of tin ,surrounded by soft spots of lead.

[Larry Gibson]

Not so much accuracy in the shooting but in the casting. Much less rejects with 2% tin added. As persnickery as 44man is in his selection and search for perfect bullets I'd think he'd find that advantages. Good well filled out cast bullets of either plain alloy or alloy with tin will shoot about the same accuracy wise as long as neither are pushed behond their RPM threshold. Not really much difference between a BHN of 9 and 12.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

I have found that by adding approx. 2% tin to my WW that the hardening after heat treating is a very slow process. WW is at full hardness in 24 hours and up to 33 BHN. Add the tin and the BHN tops out at about 23 BHN (still heaps hard enough) but takes a good week.