Problem with my .45acp

[xxclaro]

Okay,so this isn't directly related to casting, I guess, but judging from the wealth of knowledgeon this board, I have to try anyway.
I recently got my Norinco 1911, and so far have shot it only with factory 230gr ball and handloaded XTP's. All was well, no problems in loading or shooting.
I aquired a Lee 200gr flat nose mold, and have cast up about 700 bullets so far. I tried a dummy round, but it wouldn't fully chamber,so I assumed I needed to size them, and have ordered the sizing die.
In the meantime, I bought a box of Speer 185gr Gold Dot's, which ahappen to a have a similar profile to my cast bullets. I loaded up some of these with 8.0gr Unique,seated them to max lenght, and tried to chamber one. No luck, gun will not go into battery. So, I pulled the barrel and proceeded to drop the bullet into the chamber. It wouldn't sit down nearly far enough, so I seated it progressivly deeper until it would. Problem is, I was at 1.15, at this point,with some needing to go to 1.10 before they would sit at the same level as a factory load. This is somewhat under minimum. I measured my chamber,it seems correct at about .90 in length. I smoked the bullet, and verified that the rifling was indeed still making a little bit of contact at 1.20,though I could push it flush with my thumb easily enough, with a bitof sticking on removal.
This got me to thinking about my cast bullets. I grabbed the dummy round I had made, seated it down to 1.15,and sure enough I could drop the slide and the gun would go into battery. Of course, this is well below the 1.90 the manual states as minimum.
Is there anything I can do to remedy the situation and still shoot these bullets, both jacketed and cast? Can I reduce the loads to make sure pressure's don't get too high? I see the manual lists 5.1gr Unique as max with the 200gr cast, and a very low pressure. I have yet to verify exactly how deep the cast must be seated to chamber, but judging from the jacketed, I'm fairly certain they'll need to go to at least 1.20,and probably a bit deeper. Any advice you can give is very much apreciatted,as I'm at my wits end here.

[nicholst55]

I had a similar problem with a high-dollar aftermarket 1911 barrel, and ultimately diagnosed it as the barrel having no throat cut in it when it was initially chambered. I took the barrel and a couple of dummy cartridges to my gunsmith and he took care of it in five minutes with a chamber reamer.

[JIMinPHX]

My Speer #13 manual shows the COAL for the 185-grain Gold Dot tested at 1.2". That's not too far from where you say you need to be in your barrel.

The same book also shows the charge for Unique under that bullet running from 7.3 to 8.2 grains. Your charge of 8 grains is pretty close to the top of the list. You might want to back it down a little at first, especially if you end up seating the bullet any deeper than 1.2".

[Halo_Ranger]

I am also using the 200 gr RNFP Lee's. I backed my charge weight down and seat them at 1.15. I did have one that wouldn't go into battery at a longer length and when I tried to clear it, the boolit was pulled out and left in the barrel. Kimber Classic Stainless.

[BD]

I think Nicholst55 has it pegged. 5 minutes with a chamber reamer will fix it right up. 1.20 is a common OAL for the blunt nosed HPs as well as the BDacp and most of the molds based on the H&G #130. IMO A throat of at least .1 is a good thing in a 1911.
BD

[captaint]

XX - When I load for my 45acp my max oal is 1.250. Wilson magazines specifies that as max for their mag's. My 2 cents. Mike

[jsizemore]

XXClaro, I see you used factory ammo to test the function of your 1911. Did you check the dimensions of the factory and compare them to your reloads? Why not use the factory dimensions if they work in your gun? You might have to back off the powder charge but that will just keep the gun from beating itself to pieces.

Do you want to shoot or worry about a number?

[putteral]

I also use this mold and seat at the crimp line which is right at 1.15 -1.17. I have never had a problem feeding in my Charles Daly EFS. I use 4.8 grs of Titegroup. Also works in my 24/7 Pro

[runfiverun]

my boy's norinco needed a slight roll crimp to feed 200 swc's properly.
when i say slight i meeaan very slight.
you might wanna check your case lengths too they do headspace on the case mouth.

[fredj338]

I have a sim. issue w/ my XDTAC. I just adjust the load accordingly. Nothing wrong w/ seating deeper, just make sure you adjust your powder charge a bit lighter. How much, you'll need a chronograph to tell.

[SciFiJim]

I was running into this same problem with my Kimber UCII. Using the barrel as my case gauge, a factory round would drop in to the proper depth but the 200 gr rf would be almost .15 from seating fully. Then it occurred to me. I had used the seating die to seat the bullet but had not finished by crimping. I backed the seating stem far enough out of the way and then screwed the seating die in until it contacted the raised shell holder, then slowly raised the round into the crimping part of the die until I felt it stop. Presto, round now drops in to the barrel just like factory rounds. Try more taper crimp before you have someone start cutting on your pistol.

[Dale53]

The advantage of cast over jacketed in this problem area is that often the cast will engage the rifling without problems whereas the jacketed will not. The diameter of the bullet will impact the over all length. A LARGE bullet will not seat into the lead as far as a SMALL bullet. That needs to be taken into consideration.

Take the barrel out, hold it vertical, drop the loaded round into the chamber. It should be flush with the barrel hood. THAT is the proper overall length with YOUR bullet and YOUR barrel. If that ends up considerably shorter than the manual shows for THAT bullet, then you will need to back off the charge a bit (this needs to be chronographed).

Many years ago, I cracked a slide on a 1911. All I did wrong was use data for another style 200 gr bullet (I used data for a #68 H&G for a H&G #130). Instead of the 1000 fps I THOUGHT I was getting, I got 1100 fps and that was NOT good. That little mistake and a recoil spring that had sagged from the standard 16# to 12# cracked my slide in three places.

I replaced the slide and have since put another 80,000 rounds through it. It was a bit of an expensive lesson but a lesson WELL learned.

FWIW
Dale53

[anachronism]

Different bullet profiles require different seating depths. You can't simply seat every bullet to 1.25 & expect it to feed & chamber. This is another reason target SWCs show lighter loads in some manuals than the same weight bullet with a different nose profile. For example: Lymans "Cast Bullet Handbook" shows the 452460 SWC loaded to 1.161 OAL, but the 452374 RN is loaded to 1.272 OAL. 452488 RNFP is loaded to 1.275 OAL & 452389 RN is loaded to 1.255 OAL.

1.90 minimum OAL length must be a misprint.

[MtGun44]

taper crimp.

Bill

[xxclaro]

Thanks for the advice,fella's. I made up some dummy rounds with the cast today, and have them seating properly in the barrel at 1.17. The 1.90 is a misprint, the manual list this as the minimum OAL for 200gr cast, and 1.275 as minimum OAL for the 185gr jacketed. I think they must mean max OAL. I found out I don't even need to size the bullets,as the sizing die just barely touches them anyway.
My manual list 5.0gr of Unique as max, for 810fps and under 10000 psi. This seems pretty safe,even if they rounds are a bit short,as other loads go over 16000 psi.
Iwill be getting a taper crimp die asap, and hopefully that will make things even smoother. Thanks again for all your help.

[anachronism]

Taper crimp dies are a big help. Just make certain you don't put too much crimp on your cases or you'll experience leading beyond your wildest dreams. Just iron out the flare & try to keep at leasy 1/2 of your case wall thickness outside of the bullet, so you have a pronounced lip. Squeeze it down any further & you're swaging the bullet under specs.

[SciFiJim]

xxclaro, AFAIK the seating die for .45ACP IS a taper crimp die. Give it a try. The factory crimp dies are supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't needed one yet. If you get one and it solves the problem please let us know here what the results are.

[captain-03]

A good tamper crimp cured almost all my feeding problems in both the 45acp and 9mm ..