felix lube and velocity??

[jhalcott]

How fast can ( FPS) fwfl be used in rifles and how long will a batch keep ? Do you need any special techniques to keep the stuff from coming apart, refrigeration ,airtight containers,etc??

[libbyman]

I have reached 2900fps in a Md. 38 swede with a 160 gr real bullet.
As for storage, nothing special, just plastic bags.
But then I dont live south of the Masion-Dixon Line.

[swheeler]

that's pretty good velocity with a 160 gr slug(cast or jacketed)in an M38 Swede???????????2900fps-160gr that's a 264 mag full-house load? How are you determining the velocity? Do your cast boolits shoot really good at that velocity? You're right up there with 45/2.1, Starmetal and Oldfeller, way to go!!!!!!!
Scooter

[waksupi]

I have reached 2900fps in a Md. 38 swede with a 160 gr real bullet.
As for storage, nothing special, just plastic bags.
But then I dont live south of the Masion-Dixon Line.

Please clarify. Do you mean by "real", a jacketed bullet? No need for lube there. If you are shooting the Swede at 2900 fps with cast bullets, I'll bet you can't hit a bull in the ass at ten feet with them. What is the story?

[libbyman]

True, the accuracy is not the best, but we are not talking that here.
JUST VELOCITY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, cast bullets GC Linotype.

[sundog]

2900???? My best condum load is only 2400. How? Inquiring minds want to know.... sundog

[Bullshop]

Waksupi
Heel boy heel!! Its OK !! Goooooood boy!!
Coulda been a typo, and he skidded off the one and hit the two. Best not go for the throat yet!
BIC/BS

[Maineboy]

2900???? My best condum load is only 2400. How? Inquiring minds want to know.... sundog

Maybe condoms coated with Felix lube?

[StarMetal]

Boys, I got tears in my eyes. Dan you really made me laugh with that heel, waksupi, heel.

too funny

Joe,
P.S. Notice I didn't post anything about that one.

[rugerman1]

2900???? :kidding:

[buck1]

I have pushed a 165 gr GC Lino slug 23-2400 FPS from a 14" .308 single shot, With it.
It holds about1.5 at 100. (when I do my part). A little + carnuaba seems to help at that speed , but I dont know why. That seems to be the limit in my gun.
I can get 2500 and some change that will hold under a inch at 100 YD year round with another home brew 2 step lube I made up. Its a PAIN in THE a$$ though.
I put mine in canning jars, works great.

[waksupi]

True, the accuracy is not the best, but we are not talking that here.
JUST VELOCITY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, cast bullets GC Linotype.

Ok, I can go with the velocity, and poor accuracy as a result. If you would have found one of the other member's (no names mentioned) one hole groups, at that speed though, there would have been a- whuppin' !

[StarMetal]

Oh, oh, waksupi has to drag me in. [smilie=b: Ok ok, I pushed some 70 gr 22 cal bullets I got from Bullshopt to the mid 3000 fps bracket with my own lube, no leading, not so good accuracy, but they all hit the target paper, no keyholes.

Joe

[swheeler]

you're not getting a 160 gr boolit going 2900 fps from a 6.5x55 cartridge period!

[KCSO]

My best swede load for a 120 grain jacketed bullet runs just 2900 from a 26" bbl over a chrony. That load is 1/2 grain over book max with IMR 4831 powder. I can't imagine 2900 with a 160. That would have to be way over max with like IMR 4198? Details Please!

[45 2.1]

Thats the funny thing about reloading data for this cartridge, there basically isn't any slow powder lead boolit data. A 500 fps jump in velocity seems like alot, but look at the difference in velocities from pistol to rifle length barrels in the mag pistol cartridges as an example, there you get about that difference. I do know that lead boolits go faster than condums of the same weight in this cartridge per the same slow powder load, so I would like to see what he has to say.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm in the process of getting re-acquainted with a Ruger 77R in 6.5 x 55 currently, which will be fed j-words exclusively. I'm going to SLOWLY exceed book max loadings with IMRs 4350 and 4831, using 140 grain bullets and hoping to get to 2700 FPS safely. I'm also trying WC-860 with the same idea, keeping to AA-8700 data so far. So far, book max loads in 4350 and 4831 have gotten 2550 FPS, and book max of WC-860 with AA-8700 extrapolation yields 2475 FPS. There's not much more room in the case for WC-860, so I've shifted to Fed 215 primers from the WLR's using that fuel. There's plenty of room in the case for a bit more of the IMR fuels--so they are the candidates for further work into terra incognita powder-wise. I believe the Ruger action has a bit more standard strength than the 96 Mauser series action, and the Ruger's twist runs 1-9.25" (4 turns/meter) rather than the usual 1-7.9" (5 turns/meter) seen in the Swedes. Just the same, I'm proceeding cautiously.

Based on my experience with the 6.5 x 55, I am also curious to hear a detailed account of 2900 FPS with cast 160 grainers. I don't plan to shoot castings from this rifle, it will be a long-range (to 300 yards) game getter--and the 30-06 will be largely cast boolits only.

[jhalcott]

OKAY< OKAY, so lets get back to the subject! CAN fwfl go 2500 + in a 7mm or 30 caliber RIFLE? this inquiring mind wants to know BEFORE starting with it! I have 120 to 174 Cast in 7mm.Also on hand are about 6 .30 molds from a 115 to 200 grains,all GC types.

[carpetman]

JHalcot can fwfbl go 2500fps in a 7mm or 30 cal rifle? If it's attached to the bullet and the bullet is going that fast----the fwfbl will also be going that fast,so the answer is yes. I have shot 6mm gas checked 95 grainers at 2900fps using fwfbl and had good accuracy and no leading.

[Larry Gibson]

Deputy Al

The reported 2900 fps with a 160 gr bullet in the 6.5 Swede has me amazed also. I would really like to see the load and how the velocity was taken. However, to add to your post on finding a load that runs 2700 fps with a 140 gr bullet I will say that I regularly use such a load in my M96/38 sporterized Swede. I have long held the belief that the M96 actions made by the Germans and Swedes are not the “weak” actions that others attribute them to be. That is another subject though so I won’t go into it here. Suffice to say the load I use has been safe in numerous Swedes.

Norma lists their 139 gr load at 2682 fps. Several older Reloader/Gun Digests list the loads Norma used and the pressures. They Used RL 19 & 22 to reach that velocity and advertised those as safe for the M96. It is my experience that H4831SC is a little slower than RL19 and a little faster than RL22 so with H4831SC being an “Extreme” powder I chose it to develop the load with. My goal was 2700 fps with either the Hornady 140 SP or the Speer 140 SP. I worked up in ½ gr increments from the Hodgdon suggested starting loads. The rifle I used to develop the load is a SR M98 Mexican Mauser with a new M38 Swede barrel installed. The military chamber headspace is minimum in this rifle. The rifle has a 3x9X scope on it. It is a sub MOA rifle. Using unfired FL sized cases (W-W) I observed the usual pressure signs measuring the expansion ring and observing primer protrusion to control bolt thrust. At 49 gr of H4831SC the Hornady 140 SP was running 2709 fps with normal expansion ring measurement and the primer had just stop protruding after firing. Accuracy was sub MOA at 200 yards. So that is the load I use with 140 gr bullets. I could have gone higher and pushed the envelope but saw no need to. I have already killed a couple deer with that load in my Scout M38 and it is very deadly and flat shooting. I have subsequently used that load and the others listed below a considerable amount in the sporterized M38, a M96 and a couple other M38s.

With the 120 gr Nosler ballistic tip over 49.5 gr H4831SC accuracy is excellent at 2879 fps. Note; 49 gr is 100% loading density in FL sized cases and 49.5 gr is in NS’d cases (minimum chamber).

The Sierra 120 gr SP over 44.7 gr Varget runs 2926 fps with sub MOA accuracy at 300 yards.

For an explosive Varmint bullet I use the Sierra 100 gr HP over 47 gr Varget for 3235 fps and sub MOA accuracy. Note; other 100 gr bullets have not held together for good accuracy above 3000 fps.

The best cast bullet accuracy I’ve gotten has been with the shorter 266455 (125 gr Lyman) rather than with heavier bullets in the 140 to 160+ gr range. That bullet with 9 gr of Unique will go into 1-1.5” at 100 yards all day long. Velocity is 1414 fps. With 6 gr of Bullseye at 1155 fps it goes into 1” or less at 50 yards all day long. 18 gr of 5744 will push it to 1824 fps but with only 3 MOA at 100 yards. I have been working with a couple slower powders but haven’t got any cast bullet to stay under 2 MOA at 100 yards (consistently) above 1500 fps (144,000 RPM). In case you can't tell I am somewhat of a fan of the 6.5x55. I've been shooting it since '70.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

thank you C-man, I'll shoot a cat for you this spring!!

[9.3X62AL]

Larry--

THAT was the kind of info I was seeking to hear. THANK YOU! Intended bullet will be the Nosler 140 Partition, so after seeing where things go with Hornady and Speer 140's, I'll back up a bit and re-try with those expensive critters. It would be truly cool if some combo using WC-860 or WC-872 could achieve 2700 FPS.

I share your view that the M-96 is stronger than its reputation gives it--I just think the Ruger 77 is stronger yet. :-)

[StarMetal]

.....and the T38 Arisaka is stronger still further. I never thought of the 96's as a weak action. You can count on the Swedes using good materials to make their, probably same for Mauser too. Don't forget guys that the velocities in my 260 are with a 1-9 twist. That's makes it a tad easier. I had to lengthen my throat so keep from seating 140 grains too deep, a problem that you two don't have with a 96 Swede. I shot a deer a year ago with my 260 using a Remington bullet that I loaded over a healthy dose of 4895. I recovered the bullet to. Being it was a slightly angling shot parallet to the deers body the bullet traveled about the whole lenght of the deers body and I cut it right out of under the hide in the left rear ham.

Joe

[waksupi]

OKAY< OKAY, so lets get back to the subject! CAN fwfl go 2500 + in a 7mm or 30 caliber RIFLE? this inquiring mind wants to know BEFORE starting with it! I have 120 to 174 Cast in 7mm.Also on hand are about 6 .30 molds from a 115 to 200 grains,all GC types.

There ya go, trying to herd ferrets again!
I have shot .30 calibers to 2450 with no leading at all, and very good accuracy. In the .223, I've reached around 2780 fps, no leading, and 1.5" groups when I hold my mouth right.

[Rick4570]

+ 1 on the strength of the Swede. Last year my brother accidently used 44.4 gr of IMR 4895, instead of our standard 44.4 of IMR 4350 with a Hornady 129 gr. SP. Thats nearly 5 grains over max in my Hornady book! Anyway, we were shooting a battle rifle match, and he had run about 15 of those loads through his '96 before he figured something was up. He said the recoil was a little stouter than he'd remembered and extraction was just a little sticky, what caught his attention was the absence of primers in the fired brass. And, he still had a group going of about 2 inches! Don't believe he did any damage, as normal loads don't show any excess stretching upon firing. I have now idea what kind of pressure that Swede took, but she apparently wasn't fazed.
Regards, Rick