Have you ever had

[jack19512]

A firearm that you just can't get to shoot cast boolits accurately? Of all the rifles and handguns I cast and reload for my Ruger SBH 44 mag is still eluding me. I don't know why I just don't get rid of this revolver and move on. I guess I just don't want to admit defeat. :(

After all, what can this revolver do that my Ruger SRH 454 Casull can't? The 454 Casull has shot good right from the start. When I think about the powder, primers, and lead I have wasted trying to get this revolver to shoot accurately I just want to get a little :evil:.

I'm gonna go back to square one and start over. I have already tried everything I know and tried most everything everyone else has suggested with Absolutely no success. If I don't have any luck this time it's gone! [smilie=b:

[Tom W.]

My SBH was a honey at 50 yards w/ iron sights, using Lee SWC with a g/c. Had to sell it due to my tendonitis, but my SRH is just as good, It likes almost anything that I feed it!


And my elbow can take the recoil from the DA configuration!

[Bret4207]

Yup. Had a Mauser 98 in 7x57 with a Shaw barrel. Wouldn't shoot cast at all. Shot 139's into little, teeny groups. Sold it when I sold my model 12 cylinder bore 20 gauge and Marlin 39 Mountie. That was a black day, but I needed money. Anyways, the 98 wouldn't shoot any cast I tried-hard, soft, slow or fast. I only had access to one mould back then so maybe a different deign would have helped.

[dubber123]

Is it a good shooter with jacketed? If it's just so-so at best, it may have a real problem. Have you done any slugging? Too small throats come to mind, (swaging the boolit down, then skipping down the bore). I bought my brothers Ruger Security Six home to find out why it won't shoot. Found at least 3 badly mis-aligned chambers. Not much hope for that one.

[jack19512]

I did some checking tonight and wanted to show what I found and to get comments from those on this forum that are more knowledgeable than myself. I checked the throats and they all measured right at .4312 and the bore was .4295.

But, when I slugged the bore here is what my boolit looked like after slugging. Notice the base and the ring of lead that sheared off during the bore slugging. The boolit I used for slugging was a Lee 240 gr. that had been run through my Lee .429 sizer.

I had always read on this forum that the base of the boolit was very important for accuracy and if all of my boolit bases were like this after being shot through the revolver I can see how it might affect accuracy.

All of my boolits have been straight wheel weights and water dropped. I have always had a bad leading problem with this revolver also, even after only 12 rounds.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/DSCF2834.jpg

[StarMetal]

Yup. Had a Mauser 98 in 7x57 with a Shaw barrel. Wouldn't shoot cast at all. Shot 139's into little, teeny groups. Sold it when I sold my model 12 cylinder bore 20 gauge and Marlin 39 Mountie. That was a black day, but I needed money. Anyways, the 98 wouldn't shoot any cast I tried-hard, soft, slow or fast. I only had access to one mould back then so maybe a different deign would have helped.

Bret,

I have one harder to made shoot then that. I built a 260 Rem on a Type 38 Jap Arasaka with Shaw barrel. Did the stock and all. Free floated the barred. Went out with jacketed to break in the barrel and with each shot the bullet printed a notch to the right. Perfectly horizontal. By the fifth shot the bullet was about three inches to the right. Let her cool it would repeat it. Hmmmm. Well I pressed beded the barrel just a little back from the forearm tip. Viola!! That was it. The groups stayed center in a nice 3/4 inch cluster. That was good enough for deer hunting. Then went to cast. Took some doing by I'm closing in on that 3/4 inch mark with a 140 Lyman loverin at velocity. I was hindered for a short time as my bolt handle (which Shaw put a bent handle on for scope use) just broke right off at the bolt. They fixed it free of charge so I'm back at it again. I'd liked to have taken a crack at your 7x57 Mauser.

Joe

[jack19512]

Well, I slugged the barrel again and realized the ring that was sheared off was of my own doing. The ring was caused by my driving on the base of the boolit to get it started into the barrel. I used more care this time and the base still was not good, just didn't have the sheared ring.

If my Lee sizer is sizing to .429 and my barrel slugs at .4295 the boolit fit in the barrel shouldn't be that tight I wouldn't think. It takes quite a bit to knock the slug through the barrel. :confused: Looks like I am going to have to measure my sizer and see what size it really is.

[stocker]

jack: Are you using your water dropped boolits for slugging or are you making some from pure lead ?

[jack19512]

jack: Are you using your water dropped boolits for slugging or are you making some from pure lead ?






They are water dropped. I assume that is a mistake?

[runfiverun]

yeah the pure is easier to push through.
i would size to the throats not the bbl.
try to get to 431 or even 432 if possible,and you really don't need them that hard.
you saay you have bad leading right?
a boolit too small and too hard is a classic case of poor accuracy and leading.
reverse what you have been doing and get them bigger and softer. ww's with 25% pure have been working fine even in my 24" lever up to 1600 fps and right under 2" groups at 100 yds with open sights.

[snaggdit]

They are water dropped. I assume that is a mistake?

And the lightbulb goes on... Yep. Slug with pure lead. Your lands are having to sqeeze the hardened boolets to allow it to pass tbhrough the barrel.

[Leadforbrains]

Jack for what it's worth I size my boolits to .431 and I have great accuracy and zero leading in my SBH. I can hit fist size rocks with it at 50 yds all day long. I think runfiverrun is right in that your boolits could be a little under sized.

[atr]

YUP !!....got a 308 savage that has given me fits with boolits...all my shooting/hunting buddies tell me to dump it and move on. I'm too stubbron so I keep trying......

BUT I may have rescued myself from the .308 folly in that I have a new M95 in 7x57 to tune up....

[HeavyMetal]

If your sizing hard boolits to .429 I belive I have at least a partial answer to you problem.

First I'll suggest you make one change at a time to determine the exact problem.

First change: Size to .431 make 24 rounds and shoot them. Check group size and bore for leading.

If you see an improvement try a lube change. I have no suggestion here because I did not see what you are currently using listed. If your using an Alox lube of some type move up to Lars Carnuba Red and repeat the test.

If you see another improvement I will suggest you play with alloy content or hardness levels.
However not at the same time!

As others have said I think you shooting to "small" a boolit.

[44man]

Even .432" will work better. I suspect your measurements trying to slug with hard lead, you are not getting the exact readings.
Now the real kicker for the .44 is case tension, need tight and even between every piece of brass. You still need a properly sized boolit to start with and it needs to be hard enough to resist sizing when seating.
Of all the calibers I fool with I think the .44 is the most touchy with the brass.
If your boolits are the right size and seat too easy you will never get groups. Polish down the expander until the inside of an expanded case measures about .426". Too many expanders are too large and then putting under size boolits in just makes it worse.
Your thoughts are probably that you can crimp hard and save things! [smilie=1:

[beagle]

I shoot two .44 SBHs. I have one sizer that sizes a measured .4312". I have a .432" sizer also. The bullets sized .4312 do well in both guns as well as my M94 .44 Mag Legacy.

I have one big 429421 mould that casts over .433". Sizing these to .432" I ran into problems and had to open the seating die crimping shoulder as it was too tight to take a .432. Once I did this, one SBH handled them all right and the other made for tight chambering as did the Winchester.

Rugers like 'em big so I'd try .431s and be sure your sizing die that labeled .431 is sizing to .431 or thereabouts. I've had trouble with undersize sizer dies with both Lyman and RCBS./beagle

[jdgabbard]

yeah the pure is easier to push through.
i would size to the throats not the bbl.
try to get to 431 or even 432 if possible,and you really don't need them that hard.
you saay you have bad leading right?
a boolit too small and too hard is a classic case of poor accuracy and leading.
reverse what you have been doing and get them bigger and softer. ww's with 25% pure have been working fine even in my 24" lever up to 1600 fps and right under 2" groups at 100 yds with open sights.

+1 but make it 50% pb to your WWs. That has always been a good magnum handgun alloy for me. Save the harder stuff for the rifles.

[JohnH]

I had a TC Encore 375 JDJ 26" stainless barrel that would not consistantly shoot into less than 2 1/2" with cast. Tried 3 different boolits and about a couple dozen loads. The barrel was just not consistant. With the Hornady 220 FP the barrel shot like a house afire. Cloverleafs at 100 were commonplace. With jacketed, the barrel was boring. Traded it for a TC Encore 25-06 barrel that shoots boolits like a house afire, the RCBS 257120 is as boring as the 375 JDJ was with jacketed. Even shot Pdogs with it on a trip two years back. Shoots jacketed just as well. Everyone I meet tells me the TC Encore 25-06 is a dog. Couldn't prove it by me. Go figure.

[Maven]

jack19512, Here's a 25yd. target I shot not 3 hrs. ago with my Ruger SBH (from a rest) using a Belding & Mull 269gr. wadcutter over 5.5grs. of Hodgdon CLAYS.

[mooman76]

I got a 7x57 Spanish Mauser that I can't get on paper at 25y. The guy that sold it too me said it 's a shooter but didn't say what kind. Actually it has an over sized bore and doesn't shoot condumized bullets much better so maybe it doesn't count.

[jack19512]

I think runfiverrun is right in that your boolits could be a little under sized.







Well, it takes a lot to knock a slug using one of my boolits sized to .429 through the barrel so I am not sure they are undersized although undersized would indicate a problem with leading from a boolit this is too small.

[jack19512]

[QUOTE=HeavyMetal;559940]

If you see an improvement try a lube change. I have no suggestion here because I did not see what you are currently using listed. If your using an Alox lube of some type move up to Lars Carnuba Red and repeat the test.QUOTE]






The lube change was one of the first things I tried. I was using LLA and then tried/using Lars Carnuba Red with no improvement with leading or accuracy.

[jack19512]

Rugers like 'em big so I'd try .431s and be sure your sizing die that labeled .431 is sizing to .431 or thereabouts. I've had trouble with undersize sizer dies with both Lyman and RCBS./beagle







Well, the funny thing is that I have two sizers for the 44 mag, a Lee .429 and a Lee .430. Now at one time I thought I needed a larger sizer so I attempted to open one of my sizers up to a larger size but can't for the life of me remember which one it was but the funny thing is my .429 sizer measures .4343 and my .430 sizer measures .433.

Now I only fooled with one of them and I suspect it was the .429 sizer so how does that explain the .430 sizer at .433? You know, this Ruger SBH 44 mag is the only firearm I have that has/is giving me any problems with my cast. I can take the very same boolits that I load for the Ruger and shoot them in my Marlin 1894 and at 50 yards I am pleased with the groups. It's just about to drive me to :drinks:. I shot the revolver with jacketed when I first got it and it didn't do well with them either.

[jack19512]

+1 but make it 50% pb to your WWs. That has always been a good magnum handgun alloy for me. Save the harder stuff for the rifles.






This mourning I cast some more for the 44 mag, not that I needed any more, but instead of water dropping them I just air cooled these. I loaded them up and will shoot them just as soon as the rain stops. If these don't do any good then I will do the 50-50 thing.

[jack19512]

I got a 7x57 Spanish Mauser that I can't get on paper at 25y. The guy that sold it too me said it 's a shooter but didn't say what kind. Actually it has an over sized bore and doesn't shoot condumized bullets much better so maybe it doesn't count.








That had to have been the very rifle I owned. Same exact story. Bought a box of shells and at 50 yards out of 5 shots hit the paper twice. But bullet holes about 1 foot apart equally spaced from the bullseye. Really good looking rifle, just wouldn't want to take a shot at a deer from any farther than about 10 feet away.

[mpmarty]

I ran across a "7X57" Spanish Mauser once that had been re-barrelled and chambered for .308 Win. No stamps or marks of any kind to indicate what had been done to it.

[leftiye]

Mooman, in "Squiggley Down Under" they called all of the guns "shooters?"

[nicholst55]

Tell ya what I'll do; I'll take that problem Ruger off your hands, so you can concentrate on other, more productive things. How's $50 sound - no, I'll make it an even $100! :kidding:

Seriously, I'm reasonably certain that there is a solution to your problem. Your hair may turn white and fall out before you find it, though! :drinks:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Jack, after reading your posts and all the responses, fixes, I can offer one more thing that may be making you crazy.

You say that this pistol never shot jacked slugs well either. You may have a constriction in the bore that is killing any accuracy you might get.

Get a SOFT lead slug or sinker and push it through the bore , go slow and see if you can feel the slug slow down or stick at a place or places in the bore.:-?

If so , I would send it back to Ruger with a description of the problem or take it to a gunsmith, you might need a new BBL. {or the get rid of it option}[smilie=1:

[HeavyMetal]

I agree with Slow Elk, this Ruger needs to see a gunsmith.

[Randall]

you may be like me,I can't shoot a single action revolver worth a hoot,give me a DA Ruger or Smith and I can hit with it.

[jack19512]

Your hair may turn white and fall out before you find it, though! :drinks:








Too late, I'm already there. [smilie=b:

[jack19512]

Get a SOFT lead slug or sinker and push it through the bore , go slow and see if you can feel the slug slow down or stick at a place or places in the bore.:-?








I tried that the last time I slugged the barrel but didn't use soft lead. I couldn't tell there were any tight spots. But I didn't use soft lead. This is the only firearm that I cast for that leads real bad also and it doesn't take but a few rounds. I have some more cast boolits loaded up but the rain won't stop. I don't think it is my boolits because the very same boolits shoot great in my Marlin 1894. If the rain ever lets up I will post a pic of the groups I get with this Ruger 44 mag.

[jack19512]

you may be like me,I can't shoot a single action revolver worth a hoot,give me a DA Ruger or Smith and I can hit with it.








You might have something there. If I can't figure this out I will just trade it in on a Ruger SRH 44 mag or just stick with my Ruger 454 Casull which I like very much. I just wanted a 44 mag revolver to go with my Marlin 1894 44 mag.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Jack, slug it with soft lead, an see what you find, you can keep shooting, but if it isn't grouping fair by now with all the tinkering you have done, I'm betting you have a problem with the bore. The hard ally won't tell you what you want to know.

[jack19512]

Jack, slug it with soft lead, an see what you find, you can keep shooting, but if it isn't grouping fair by now with all the tinkering you have done, I'm betting you have a problem with the bore. The hard ally won't tell you what you want to know.






I will do the soft lead slug and see what happens. I have some rounds loaded up with some new cast boolits that I didn't water quench but the rain won't stop long enough to dry up my shooting spot. I've been gone for the last couple days and it rained on us the whole time we were gone to.

I am beginning to think there is something wrong with the revolver also that I am just not smart enough to discover. This is the only firearm that I am casting for that I have not been able to achieve at least acceptable accuracy with.

[jack19512]

I think I found my problem. I cast some slugs out of pure lead and lubed the inside of my barrel and boolit then using dowell rods I knocked the boolit all the way through the barrel. Then I lubed my barrel and boolit again and after getting the boolit inserted back into the barrel I could very easily move the slug back and fourth inside the barrel until the boolit got to where the barrel attaches to the frame and then the slug would lock up tight and I had to use a small hammer and the dowell rod to finish knocking the slug out. I would assume this is why the barrel leads bad also. Does this mean the revolver goes back to Ruger or can I fix this problem myself? Thanks

[Flinchrock]

I think I found my problem. I cast some slugs out of pure lead and lubed the inside of my barrel and boolit then using dowell rods I knocked the boolit all the way through the barrel. Then I lubed my barrel and boolit again and after getting the boolit inserted back into the barrel I could very easily move the slug back and fourth inside the barrel until the boolit got to where the barrel attaches to the frame and then the slug would lock up tight and I had to use a small hammer and the dowell rod to finish knocking the slug out. I would assume this is why the barrel leads bad also. Does this mean the revolver goes back to Ruger or can I fix this problem myself? Thanks

That barrel needs some lapping!

[jack19512]

I have decided to just let Ruger fix this problem. This revolver has a 7 1/2 inch barrel. After spending more time analyzing this I have found that the slug fits fairly tight for about the first inch of the barrel on the muzzle end, then is fairly loose until the slug gets to where the barrel joins the frame and there the slug is really tight.

The funny thing is I got the contact info from The Ruger website, there are two contact phone numbers. I called the one and talked to a gentleman and explained my problem and findings to him.

He said I could send the revolver in for repair but that he would not issue me a prepaid shipping label. The shipping would have to come out of my pocket. :roll: I decided I would just sell this gun and be done with it.

Then I got to thinking, I had to send in another revolver in the past because of accuracy issues and had no problem getting the prepaid shipping label so I called the other number and spoke to a lady. I told her the same exact story I had told the gentleman.

Now here is the funny part. I didn't even have to ask for the prepaid shipping label. After I had explained to her the very same story that I had explained to the gentleman she immediately informed me that she was notifying UPS to pick the revolver up at their expense and that UPS would be contacting me on Monday and letting me know when they would pick it up. All I had to do was to pack it for shipping and have it ready for the UPS guy.

The reason I am including all of this is for anyone else that may have the same problem with Ruger in the future. It might just make a difference who you talk to at Ruger.