I need a new "Handle"

[44man]

I visit a lot of other forums and get into a lot of discussions about how to make a cast boolit shoot from a revolver. Of course the experts come at me big time to dispute every word and they love to throw 15 to 25 yard group pictures at me. Some are pretty good, I have to say.
It can go back and forth for weeks until I get tired of it and post my group pictures at 50, 100 and 200 yards.
BINGO, end of thread, end of responses, end of experts! [smilie=1: I can go back a year and every thread will end right then. That is NOT what I want to happen. I would like proof that some other way might tighten my groups even more and supply me with information to help others.
Thankfully, it is not that way here and the collective knowledge of the fine folks here puts all other forums to shame. This is the only place that I listen to all that is said and I try most of it for myself, looking to learn more.
I appreciate all of you and just hope some of what I think has had some positive results for some of you too.
Anyway, I think my handle on others sites should be "THREADKILLER." :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
I thank all of you for putting up with me and sharing so much.

[Randall]

GOOD HANDLE!Most people will not believe its possible to hit with a handgun past 50 feet. I have outshot people with rifles with a scoped pistol,admittedly they were scared of their gun and flinching bad. I have had people ask me to teach them to hit at 100 yards with a handgun,I am happy to help them if they are willing to put in the time to learn. Not that I am a great shot or anything,it took me years and lots of practice. Most people don't want to put forth the effort and want to know what the magic secret is. I tell people if they can still find an IHMSA shoot to go watch them, see what can be done.

[44man]

How right you are! Don't even start with 10" single shot pistols shooting better then any rifle except a full blown BR rifle! We had too many rifle shooters pack up and go home after seeing groups shot with a pistol compared to what they were proud of. The silly, short barrel does not have the harmonic problem of a long barrel.
These are the two pistols I kept and some groups shot working loads at 100 and 200 meters. I don't have any I shot with my XP-100 before I sold it.
That little MOA put 5 shots in 3/8" at 100 yards!

[44man]

Forgot picture

[44man]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg3/bfrshooter/ForBrian-singleshots.jpg
This might be a better picture.

[captaint]

Beautiful work 44man. I have an XP100 chambered in 6BR, I think the barrel is 15.5 inches. It is the most accurate firearm I own. I own a bunch!

[fourarmed]

I shot a 7R Wichita like that for years, and still have an MOA in 7BR. I see you ended up shooting 4759 in the 7R. I think that is what everybody I knew who had one eventually used. A lot of case capacity for a 10" barrel.

And speaking of revolver groups, I have to brag a little about my weekend revolver shooting: I finally squeezed a 40x40 out of my Dan Wesson .41 using cast bullets. I have to confess that I didn't cast all of them, though. I use my 410459 for chickens and pigs, but go to a Leadhead's 265 grain gas check boolit for turkeys and rams. Those heavy slugs are just easier to make group at 200 meters.

[putteral]

I am always in Awe with the way guys like you can shoot. Love to watch it happen. I keep working on my technique trying to improve, not that I am a bad shot but just love to watch good shooters and their techniques!
:drinks:

[oneokie]

I visit a lot of other forums and get into a lot of discussions about how to make a cast boolit shoot from a revolver. Of course the experts come at me big time to dispute every word and they love to throw 15 to 25 yard group pictures at me. Some are pretty good, I have to say.
It can go back and forth for weeks until I get tired of it and post my group pictures at 50, 100 and 200 yards.
BINGO, end of thread, end of responses,end of experts! [smilie=1: I can go back a year and every thread will end right then. That is NOT what I want to happen. I would like proof that some other way might tighten my groups even more and supply me with information to help others.
Thankfully, it is not that way here and the collective knowledge of the fine folks here puts all other forums to shame. This is the only place that I listen to all that is said and I try most of it for myself, looking to learn more.
I appreciate all of you and just hope some of what I think has had some positive results for some of you too.
Anyway, I think my handle on others sites should be "THREADKILLER." :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
I thank all of you for putting up with me and sharing so much.

Their loss. Sounds to me like they do not like humble pie.

[stubshaft]

I think that your new handle should be "MARKSMAN" a concept that is usually accomplished with practice, diligence and determination. I have surfed the web for decent sites also and have found too many "expurts" that are more that willing to give advise rather than follow it. The folks on this site are the real deal, and I appreciate them for it.

[leadman]

I used to think revolvers were only for 25 to 50 yards until I started watching Bob Mundon on TV. What a shootist!
He inspired me to try the longer shots and keep at it. I remember him using a 38 snubbie to shoot balloons at either 200 or 300 yards, can't remember which.
Now I get upset with myself if my groups go over 3" with my SBHH in 41mag. If I go over 2 1/2" at 200 with my T/C 6.5TCU I know I need to practice more.
I love shooting the short guns, but this will have to go eventually, getting old, arthritis, eyes going. Same as the rest of the old farts!

Just bought a 22lr match 14" for my Contender. There is hope! Shot it under an inch about a week ago at 100yds.

44Man, keep posting, we will listen and chime in also.

[45nut]

Man,, didnt see ya earned a Golden Boolit here.. nice goin'.

I am so happy this forum provides a home for so many varied people that share a common drive.

I know myself how it feels to do something myself others swore was not possible. Oh well,, go on and keep at it. I much prefer the company here than ,,well,,I'll save that for another thread.

[Bret4207]

44mans post reminds me of all the guys I see getting a bigger rifle and bigger scope each year so they can "shoot farther". If all those bozos would put even half the money they spend into ammo and a range finder and practice they'd be a lot better off and so would the deer. Of course you can't convince a guy that that old 270 or '06 is perfectly adequate for those "400 yard" (275-maybe!) shots he's taking.

I'm getting to be a worse shot, not better. This old age thing stinks as far as my eyes go.

[44man]

44mans post reminds me of all the guys I see getting a bigger rifle and bigger scope each year so they can "shoot farther". If all those bozos would put even half the money they spend into ammo and a range finder and practice they'd be a lot better off and so would the deer. Of course you can't convince a guy that that old 270 or '06 is perfectly adequate for those "400 yard" (275-maybe!) shots he's taking.

I'm getting to be a worse shot, not better. This old age thing stinks as far as my eyes go.
I am right there with you, being 71 now. I shot those groups when I had good vision. That little Wichita is so accurate I used to hang a 2" by 2" plate at 150 meters and shooting Creedmore, knock it all over the place. Now I need a huge target just to see it. I still shoot the same but I need a deer out there now! :drinks: Thank God for red dots. One of the reasons I could shoot so good long ago with open sights was that I could see both sights and the target very clear.
I do not even imagine myself as being anything other then a gnat compared to Bob Munden and all of the super shots, even a bunch of you here.
My whole purpose has been to make an out of box revolver shoot as good as a lot of rifles, I am never happy and keep searching for a one hole group at 50 yards. Been close many times, down to 7/16". Vision is beating me now.
In all the time I have been here I have stressed to the new fellas that they need to stop fooling around at 25 yards or less with a revolver. Also that what you do at the loading bench is as important as how you control your gun. You can shoot bad loads forever without any gain in accuracy and you will blame yourself.
Even though I was shooting 200 yards and much farther with a .44 back in 1957, IHMSA changed my life and made me search for what a revolver needs. There are just a few basics that can not be disputed and all of you here say the same and many of you are great shots.
That makes me very happy if I just change the idea that a revolver is junk and only good at 25 yards.
Bret hit the nail on the head. S&W made the .460 so you can shoot 200 yards---WOW, Your little .44 can ALSO do that if you know your gun, so can the .45 Colt, the .475, etc.
No matter how far your gun can shoot, I will be the last person to tell you or myself to shoot at game past 100 yards with a revolver unless you are an expert and have a solid rest and tons of practice.
But for fun, there is no limit! I have an 800 yard berm at the club and if I can figure holdover without changing sight settings, I plan on it next. I believe 1000 yard hits are possible with a revolver.
Let me see, the 45-70 BFR drops about 26 feet at 500---MMMMM, gee, I don't know! :Fire:

[Down South]

You are correct that most folks just don’t think a revolver is accurate for more than 25 yards or so. I was out at a public range just a couple months ago with targets set up at 50 yds working up a load. A couple of guys walked up with rifles and saw that I was shooting at 50 yd targets. I remember that one of them made the comment that he didn’t think a revolver would shoot that far accurately. I just grinned and kept putting holes in the target down range. Now 100yds is a feat that I haven’t completely overcome yet but I’m working on it.

[looseprojectile]

I am only seventy[smilie=1:. Sold my son the model 28-2 S&W, he is a retired Airforce Major. He has trouble hitting paper at fifty feet. Some people just can't accept instruction. Front sight, focus, front sight, squeeze.
He can blast away a couple of hundred rounds and NOTHING has been accomplished. Problem is, I load his ammo.
For myself the middle of my trifocals show the sights real good.
I won the pin shoot a while back, shooting against twentyfour others including five LEOs. Gained some respect for us old timers.
I think shooters that don't shoot as well as you, see you, as you do the high profile shooters, those that have sponsors buying their ammunition. How cool would it be to have someone buy all the ammo you could shoot? My son does. You can bet Bob Munden doesn't cast his boolits in a two cavity mould and run a single stage press in his spare time. That which you have accomplished is great.
Keep on keeping on.

Life is good

[357tex]

44 man
Its people like you that keep me trying to always improve.I have been shooting a long time,it would be easy to be happy with where I am,But when I see what you can do I try harder.

[44man]

That is what makes me happy, to have everyone never be satisfied, never say "shoots good". I assure you that there is no need to spend $2000 or more to make a revolver shoot. A cheap Ruger can amaze you.
I have posted a million times to never sweat the small stuff.
I am a real stickler about matching a boolit to the twist and finding the right velocity. Also finding the right boolits. Some just will not shoot.
Match hardness to case tension so you don't size the boolit when seating.
Use even and firm tension.
Experiment with primers and lube.
Do not do test work with new brass, tension will be all over the place.
Really, that's about it! Once you get these right then you can tweak things all over the place but you will not see a lot of the little things improve things enough to worry about.
I never prep brass, I never weigh boolits, many times I never trim brass as long as it is close because a small change in crimp never seems to hurt.
I am probably the laziest loader and boolit caster you have ever seen! :drinks: I just do what I have found works. It took me years and years to do it because I was reading just too much stuff that didn't mean anything and a lot made things worse.
Soft lead, obturation, hard lube, magnum primers ONLY, heavy loads of fast powder, one lube groove filled, two filled, three filled and on and on---BAH HUMBUG! [smilie=1: If you seen my loads you would wonder! I have to wipe the muck off the brass and clean dies all the time. :mrgreen: Even my bench top gets full of lube, my boolit noses are full of lube, Felix of course but if I use my sizer, Lar's Carnauba Red or LBT soft are good. Small stuff again but the wrong lube will wipe out any chance of groups.
I push the basics then it is up to you to have trigger control and to lose ALL fear of recoil. Hard? Yes but you can do it.
Shoot far, then farther and farther! Only then will you see results from the loading bench and how good you can control your gun.
On top of all that it is FUN and to show up rifle shooters is even MORE fun. I am not a super shot and many of you can do better, see better, but just did not go past what you think a revolver is good for. Never say "good enough," I want to hear "shoots great."

[Fire_stick]

I want to grow up and be like 44man.

You're an inspiration. Thanks!

[Mk42gunner]

44Man,

Shooting at 800 to 1000 yards with a revolver sounds like a lot of fun, I wish I had some place around here to do it.

The biggest problem I have had with long range handgunning is keeping the front sight centered and having a repeatable elevation index once the blade is completely out of the rear sight notch.

I remember twenty years ago (when a person could still shoot in the desert in southern California), one of my strikers on my first ship had a SIG 220 that we shot at a one gallon antifreeze jug that someone had carried several hundred yards from the firing line. With generic bought from the gunshow 45 loads the top of the rear sight was even wtih the front of the ejection port when we started getting hits on and around the target.

Robert

[JIMinPHX]

Of course the experts come at me big time to dispute every word and they love to throw 15 to 25 yard group pictures at me. Some are pretty good, I have to say.
It can go back and forth for weeks until I get tired of it and post my group pictures at 50, 100 and 200 yards.
BINGO, end of thread, end of responses, end of experts!

That reminds me of a guy that I ran into at a range one time who told me that I needed to glass bed my rifle & free float my barrel & hand load his way & clean between shots & get a better trigger if I ever wanted to have a chance of shooting well.

When we got down range to change targets, his groups were the size of a volley ball & mine were the size of a golf ball. The story telling stopped right there as he tried to hide his targets & mumbled something about his .35 Remington only being a hunting cartridge & not capable of accuracy.

Any time you want to end a thread by adding some good info, you feel free to do just that. I'll be happy to read it.

[waco]

id be happy to grow up half of 44man.......22man maybe?
my blackhawk might have to try some 100-200yrd pops in the desert this weekend...
thanks 44man
ps
be expecting some pm from me......ill be pickin your brain!
waco

[cajun shooter]

44 Man, I signed up for IMSHA and my number was 725. The first Louisiana State Championship was won by a friend of mine, Greg Phares with a score of 27 I used a Ruger as most did at that time in 41 Mag. I also used a S&W mdl 57 but could not adjust the sights for the RAMS before I ran out of thread. I became upset with the sport when they started with the space gun classes. I turned 62 in April and those front sights are no longer there. I think someone stole all my front sights. I have to file a report, see ya! David

[44man]

I think 800 is going to be fun. I have to wait until friends have a day off during the week because the big problem will be spotting shots to walk hits so I need a good spotter. I can't go during weekends because there are shoots.
The club is an hour from me.
It will be interesting with the Ultra Dot too. I can do it at 500 meters by aiming at a certain spot way up in a tree over the ram but I don't remember if there are trees high enough behind 800. I might need another 20 feet added to the 26 feet at 547 yards. :confused:
A desert would be great because the puffs can be seen but there is nothing behind for sighting. There is just no way to adjust any sight for those ranges, even my single shots were on the last sight thread at 500 meters but open sights can be stuck up out of the rear. Not so with the red dot, just need both eyes to keep vertical alignment because no part of a target can be seen through it.
I will not change my sights from my deer hunting settings either.
Robert has seen how much fun it is and how small a caliber can shoot so far.
And don't worry about the boolit, a WLN or WFN WILL stay stable if loaded right at the start.
The best off hand shot I ever seen in my life was a Marine at a Quantico silhouette shoot. I watched him get settings with his 1911---AMAZING! :drinks: He did not do well with only a few points but he hit almost all 40 targets, the .45 just would not knock over the steel. He knew it at the start and did not care, he was there for fun but he humbled all of us, what a fantastic shot.
I guess the main reason for my post is to get all of you to go out and shoot as far as you can for fun and come back here with a big grin and a report. Stop shooting at 20 foot cans, go have fun and laugh all day.
Use sandbags or shoot Creedmore, no need to shoot off hand unless you want to. I can't hit beans off hand unless it is close. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
Those that bother me most are the guys that walk around with butt cheeks sucked in tight. I don't care if you hit a thing but if you have a big smile, I will shake your hand any day! :Fire: Sorry, my home brew keg went dry, need to make beer. :drinks:

[softpoint]

I once had a BF pistol in 7mmsupermag that put 5 into 5/8 on a few occasions, Have a Freedom arms .44 magnum right now, when it wears its scope has put 3 into an inch at 100 meters a couple of times. And both are better than a lot of my hunting rifles will do.

[44man]

44 Man, I signed up for IMSHA and my number was 725. The first Louisiana State Championship was won by a friend of mine, Greg Phares with a score of 27 I used a Ruger as most did at that time in 41 Mag. I also used a S&W mdl 57 but could not adjust the sights for the RAMS before I ran out of thread. I became upset with the sport when they started with the space gun classes. I turned 62 in April and those front sights are no longer there. I think someone stole all my front sights. I have to file a report, see ya! David
DID YOU HAVE FUN? All that counts. My comment about the tight butt guys started at IHMSA shoots. My little group was always laughing, we REALLY would piss of those that were dead serious and to beat them was worse. I never liked the looks they gave us. I would talk to some between relays and only the best shooters would smile, laugh and be friendly.
The day I won Ohio state with my Ruger SBH with 79 out of 80 seemed to create more hard feelings among the tight butt crowd!. Then to come back the same year and win the state .22 with 57 out of 60 using a new Ruger Mark II with NO sight settings made it worse. Few would even talk to me. Not a single person came up to me after the shoots.
Now you know why I hate to see the atitude of some. I am NOT better then any one else, friends are more important to me. A poor atitude and anger will prevent any improvement. When I lost, I would shake the winners hand. Even when I shoot BPCR and we have a tie, I gave the win to the other guy instead of having a sudden death shoot off. His smile was worth it to me.
The responses I am getting here are showing me that this is still the best site in the world. I am so sorry we live so far apart.
Thank you fellas! :mrgreen:

[Bass Ackward]

Not a single person came up to me after the shoots.


It was the hat! Warned you about that before.

[JIMinPHX]

Hey Waco,
if you're still short on lead, McNeeley has a link down on the bottom of this page now - 60 pounds of lead for $50. The recovered shot he sells makes pretty clean ingots at 94% yield for me & the boolits fill out well with just 1% tin added. I get 12.5bnh air cooled & about 30bnh water dropped with the 1% tin.

[JIMinPHX]

The best off hand shot I ever seen in my life was a Marine at a Quantico silhouette shoot. I watched him get settings with his 1911---AMAZING!

My brother in law's father is an old time marine & about the best off hand shooter I have ever seen with a rifle. His favorite exhibition is breaking pains of glass at 1,000 yards with a Garand from a standing position with no rest. I've never seen him miss. He had a lot of useful information about the proper way to hold a Garand that improved my offhand shooting quite a bit, but nowhere close to his level.

[44man]

The best way to shoot off hand is to go blank, not hard for me! Then I forget where the target is. I forget what to do with the trigger. Then the rifle starts to droop. Anyway when and if it goes off, I wake up and ask what happened. :bigsmyl2:
Bass, I need that hat or the chrome dome gets burnt pretty bad! [smilie=p:

[looseprojectile]

This is off topic but tell me how to hold a Garand, please. PLEASE.
A lotta other stuff in this thread is also off. ----- Topic. You might start another post. Please.
I can already hold a Super Blackhawk just fine. Have made some incredible shots.
I don't think the Navy taught me how to hold a Garand very well in 1956.

Life is good

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, I need that hat or the chrome dome gets burnt pretty bad! [smilie=p:


Jim,

It was the fish tail on one side of your head and the head coming out the other that threw'em.

They were cool with the little birds on the wires that floated about when you walked. :grin:

[ghh3rd]

I should be winning my Blackhawk any time now... all I have to do is decide on which scope to put on top of it :-) It looks just like my Ruger Super Single Six .22 cal (only all growed up).

Contest: http://www.gunblast.com/Super_Blackhawk.htm

Thanks for a great thread. I really need to move somewhere that has room to shoot long distances. But at least with threads like this one, I can enjoy it vicariously.

Randy

[44man]

Jim,

It was the fish tail on one side of your head and the head coming out the other that threw'em.

They were cool with the little birds on the wires that floated about when you walked. :grin:
The hat I wear the most says, "Vegetarian, old Indian name for a bad hunter." :drinks:

[JIMinPHX]

This is off topic but tell me how to hold a Garand, please. PLEASE.


Basically (for a right handed shooter), You keep your right elbow real high & take pretty much ALL the weight of the rifle with your right hand & then just use your left hand to steer the sights to the target. It takes some practice to get to the point where you can hold the Garand up with just the right hand for a prolonged period of time. That is one heavy rifle.

[ciPeterF]

My .02 for your new handle "MOA"..

groupings are awesome! why don't you share some more and all the details.. don't worry, we'll keep the thread alive..

[JIMinPHX]

ps
be expecting some pm from me......ill be pickin your brain!
waco

Why don't you do that in the open forum so that we can all learn?