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krag35
04-28-2009, 10:01 PM
My son, Dale is going to post this under my "handle" I told him he could get some honest answers here.

krag35

I talked to a army recruiter last night and I am not sure about what branch i want to join. my dad was air force and i have his opinion but i would like to know what other people have to say about all other branches.

I would like to hear from you guys, and your opinion's

Thank you for the help

mike in co
04-28-2009, 10:15 PM
there are safe careers in the military, and then there is butt on the line jobs.

you can be a clerk in all four services( ok lets say 5 and add the coast guard). the air force did guard duty at bases in 'nam. the coast guard did costal patrols in 'nam. the navy is sending medics to the dessert. all of them have benefits for schools in and out.


so my question to you, before we go any deeper, do you have ideas on what you like to do, want to do...and is any of it relavent to military service.

mike in co...ex usn nuc subs

( i did not go in to the service till almost 22, had three yrs of college and one degree. then there was the draft.....)

montana_charlie
04-28-2009, 10:25 PM
Not nearly enough information to give you an honest answer.
We can't tell you which way to run when we don't even know if you can walk.

Of course this was back in the '60's, but the military used to have a battery of apptitude tests.
I think all services used the same battery.

Have you been tested? Which skills do you show the best apptitude(s) in?

CM

felix
04-28-2009, 10:26 PM
Good point, Mike. You have to have an idea of what career/duty you want. If you don't, do an analysis of yourself with the help of your extended family at home and here, and we might shed some light that would jibe with your physicals, emotions, brains, and your spiritual beliefs. ... felix

krag35
04-28-2009, 10:27 PM
I am thinking I would like to do some kind of mechanics or metal fabrication.

runfiverun
04-28-2009, 10:49 PM
if you are really not sure there is the guard option too and you can go full time later.

sundog
04-28-2009, 10:55 PM
Special Operations. Get airborne qual'd. Language and a specialty field like engineers, medic, communications, weapons, etc. Spend some time in the Rangers and then a SF Group or 160th SOAR. It's an education that will last a lifetime. However, with the current climate, I would be very weary of doing any of that. Remember what happened in Mogadishu when bubba was prez?

If you are not a go to the field kind of guy, stay fit, mentally and physically, and get a needed specialty in something technical. Never turn down an opportunity for a school.

krag35
04-28-2009, 10:59 PM
on my asvab I scored in the 70s so i am able to most jobs i know i would like to do something i can use when i get out and I have highest scores in auto,shop and mechanical.

Kraschenbirn
04-28-2009, 11:01 PM
...so my question to you, before we go any deeper, do you have ideas on what you like to do, want to do...and is any of it relavent to military service.

+1 on Mike's question. What do YOU expect to get out of the service? Are you looking for education...a career...an opportunity to contribute to the nation...or just an adventure? Any branch of the military can provide any and/or all of the above but you need to have your own goals straight in your head, too.

Bill

US Army Aviation 1965-69

softpoint
04-28-2009, 11:20 PM
Why not a Marine?:drinks:

AZ-Stew
04-28-2009, 11:29 PM
The Navy and Air Force both have jobs working on aircraft where you would be likely to be able to exercise your mechanical and fabrication talents. The both have good in-service schools, but (admittedly biased) I believe the Navy has the best schools. When you leave the service you will have skills you can sell at aviation repair facilities throughout the country. Just be aware that you will be doing a lot of menial tasks for the first couple of years you serve. You'll have to work your way up from the bottom even if you do get advanced schooling out of boot. Learn as much as you can, bot in school and on the job, with the thought in mind that you are learning the things that will make your living for the rest of your life. In other words, apply yourself as if your and your family's life depends on it. If you do, you'll excell at whatever comes along and you'll advance in paygrade at a rapid rate.

You may get the opportunity to travel the world and learn why the United States is BY FAR the best country in the world in which to live. Once you see what other people have to live with in their country, you'll be glad the U.S. is your home.

Best of luck, and wear the uniform proudly!

Regards,

Stew

Frank46
04-28-2009, 11:46 PM
Krag, the navy has various rateings. Machinist, machinery repair, damage control to name a few. I spent three years as a "snipe" ran the ships generators, pumps, main engines just to give you an idea. They used to call us the "black gang" course things are different now. Saw a lot of foreign places that otherwise would have never gone to see. Got blitzed a few times but that gets old pretty quick. I was able to draw on my experiences when I went to work in the generating station (power plant) and that added to my knowledge of how stuff works and how to fix it. 18 to 20 hour days were common and even being 18 there were times when you'd kill for just a few more minutes of time to sleep. But we had a job to do and we did it. you'll meet folks from all over this country. After working together its all as a team. Course my experiences were from the vietnam war era. We has desparate shortages of men back then. Spent many watches 4 on and back at it again. When things got really bad stood 6 hour watchs slept for 4 if you could and then back for 6 hours of fun and games. A lot of guys would not reinlist, and the guys coming in did not have the experience the older guys had. By older 19-20-21 year old guys. But you learn by doing and eventually fit in with the rest. If you stay in a rating then there are courses you can take and practical exams where they ask questions on how to do certain operations. Your scores detirmine in which of the 4 incremental rating periods you'll get promoted. Highest
grades get rated in the first incremental rating period. Then the next lowest scores the second rating period, next scores next period and then the 4th and last rating period for those who had the lowest passing scores. If you failed, you had to redo your studies get better scores and brush up on your practical knowledge. Its kinda crazy the way they did it but the system works. Any more questions feel free to ask me or anyone else who's served. I applaud your decision to serve your country. Frank

mtnman31
04-28-2009, 11:47 PM
If you are interested in mechanics and metalwork look at an aviaton field. Right now I go over to the aviation support squadrons to use thier lathes, mills, etc. They have a full blown machine shop, as well as an air frames division that does all manner of metal work - everything from parts fabrication and repair to testing for stress fractures and part failure. There are many other jobs in the military that have what you are looking for, you just need to do a lot more research. Ask lots of questions - direct and pointed questions. If you leave it at "I want to work on machinery" you could end up changing tires on seven ton trucks. Talk to the recruiters from all four services. Some recruiters will guarantee you a specific job (ex. aviation air frames mechanic) and others will only guarantee you a job field (ex. aviation mainenance). That is how guys think they will get a job as an electronics technician then go to school and end up a radioman, lugging around a radio on their backs. Sure his title says he is a technican working with electronics but, in reality he is an infantryman who can lug a radio and change the batteries.

BTW - Marine Corps is the way to go. But then again I may be biased since I have been a Marine the last 17 years of my life... Talk to a Marine recruiter, he can guarantee you a specific job if you have decent ASVAB test scores. I was guaranteed a specific Military Occupational Specialty when I enlisted. Sometimes jobs are short on people and you can even get a fat enlistment bonus ($$$$) for taking a job in a field that is short handed. Right now, networking and IT jobs are short because the military has such a hard time keeping those guys around. They tend to get out of the military after their first enlistment and take good paying jobs in the civilian market. Sometimes jobs are shorthanded because they are just not very fun and/or have very few skills that are marketable outside the military.

Just remember this, you aren't guaranteed anything until pen is put to paper. Don't let a recruiter tell you that you have a job guaranteed, make him show you on paper, i.e. in your contract. Recruiting can be shady - they are under a lot of pressure to get people to enlist, and in today's political climate that is a challenge. Talk to all four services and see what the recruiters can offer you. Treat it like a job interview and you are the boss - what can they do for you??? Talk to a Marine recruiter and you'll hear a different song from the other services. You won't hear so much about the jobs, and pay, and duty locations, and schools; you are likely to hear more about the intangible benefits of being a Marine. Things like pride in being a member of the most respected military organization in the world, the camradierie and esprit de corps you'll experience, and the pride of being able to simply be a Marine. The other services offer you a job, the Marine Corps offers you a lifestyle.

Wow, hope I didn't sound too much like a recruiter... Good luck in your decision and remember to just ask lots of questions and "get it in writing".

StarMetal
04-28-2009, 11:54 PM
Krag, the navy has various rateings. Machinist, machinery repair, damage control to name a few. I spent three years as a "snipe" ran the ships generators, pumps, main engines just to give you an idea. They used to call us the "black gang" course things are different now. Saw a lot of foreign places that otherwise would have never gone to see. Got blitzed a few times but that gets old pretty quick. I was able to draw on my experiences when I went to work in the generating station (power plant) and that added to my knowledge of how stuff works and how to fix it. 18 to 20 hour days were common and even being 18 there were times when you'd kill for just a few more minutes of time to sleep. But we had a job to do and we did it. you'll meet folks from all over this country. After working together its all as a team. Course my experiences were from the vietnam war era. We has desparate shortages of men back then. Spent many watches 4 on and back at it again. When things got really bad stood 6 hour watchs slept for 4 if you could and then back for 6 hours of fun and games. A lot of guys would not reinlist, and the guys coming in did not have the experience the older guys had. By older 19-20-21 year old guys. But you learn by doing and eventually fit in with the rest. If you stay in a rating then there are courses you can take and practical exams where they ask questions on how to do certain operations. Your scores detirmine in which of the 4 incremental rating periods you'll get promoted. Highest
grades get rated in the first incremental rating period. Then the next lowest scores the second rating period, next scores next period and then the 4th and last rating period for those who had the lowest passing scores. If you failed, you had to redo your studies get better scores and brush up on your practical knowledge. Its kinda crazy the way they did it but the system works. Any more questions feel free to ask me or anyone else who's served. I applaud your decision to serve your country. Frank

I was in the Navy about the same time your were. From what you described you did I'd have to say you were a Machinists Mate. The "snipe" handle was relegated to the boilermen or boilertenders some call them. The boileroom was the hot and very dirty room, along with it's crew.

Joe

StarMetal
04-29-2009, 12:05 AM
I think you really need to talk to a recruiter. I'm not up to snuff on the new test the military requires you to take now, the one you said you scored a 70 on, but I can you this. To get into the airdales in the Navy...for example Aviation Structural Engineer....you pretty much have to ace the test because anything in that field is highly sought after. Unless they've changed a lot they will lie to you with promises of this or that, till you sign up and then it's too late. If I signed up I'd get a guarantee of school, job, etc., and get it in writing. Far as combat here's how I see it. These two jobs in the Navy will land you there: one any aircraft carrier duty and the medical field. Like mentioned lots of Navy corpsmen are in the field. Airforce: think about, many of our wars lately use planes a lot. Nothing against Marines and I admired them for the work they do, some downright dirty and dangerous, but far as I'm concerned during a conflict you might as well paint a bullseye on yourself if you're a Marine. It use to be said that the Navy and Airforce have the top schools. I would assume by now that has changed. Another thing about the Navy...you always have three good meals, a dry bed, and don't have to wear a tie. I think the military is a great opportunity for a great education and benefits for further education after you get out. It's probaby not a bad career to stay in till retirement. Those that mentioned decide what you want to do when you get out or what you want to be because I know back years and years ago coming out of the Army for an example as an artillery man sure didn't land you a lot of jobs. Don't forget to, especially if you are thinking of enlistening for the education and education benefits, that you are still number obligated to the defense of the U.S. which in itself is an honorable thing. Choosing wisely and think everything over well because you will be deciding your future life.

Joe

TDC
04-29-2009, 12:11 AM
on my asvab I scored in the 70s so i am able to most jobs i know i would like to do something i can use when i get out and I have highest scores in auto,shop and mechanical.

Very tough but very important choices for you to make... There should be no rush to make this decision and you should give your expectations, your aptitude, and most of all, your future dreams and aspirations a chance to head you in the right direction.

You're getting a lot of good advice from people on this board, but when it comes right down to critical choices, your dad and your family know you best. Ask questions and get info on all branches of military service. You'll find one that turns you on and fits the kind of training you want.

Let us know which you choose and how ya do after you've enlisted..... Good luck and thanks in advance for your service!!

Recluse
04-29-2009, 12:50 AM
If I had it to do over again, I would sign up to be a machinist on a Navy ship. Maybe an electrician or diesel mechanic. . . but probably a machinist. And I'll tell you why.

I took a different kind of job in another branch of the service. I really don't have any regrets except that the older I get, the harder it is for me to just get out of bed. On some mornings, every single bone and joint in my body hurts so bad that until I get some tylenor or advil--or stronger--in me, I can hardly even walk.

Sleep was something I had to learn all over again--and making it through the night without Bad Dreams was almost impossible the first few years I was out. Whiskey and bourbon helped, but then they became a problem unto themselves. I have arthritis in both knees, both shoulders, left hip, neck and both ankles. I'm scheduled to have the knees replaced in the upcoming two years, but the doc wants to replace the shoulder first.

I wasn't a hero and I wasn't cut out to be one. I just got caught up in the "excitement" of seeing a recruiting film while in basic training and volunteered. On good days, I regret nothing. On bad days, I regret almost everything. But, it was all MY choice. Nobody chided or "dared" or cajoled me or anything like that. My choice.

I made friends for life and I lost friends to the reaper--sometimes both in the same day. I learned to Never Quit. I learned to Always Protect Your Buddy.

But I could have--and would have--learned those same things working in a machine shop on a Navy destroyer or battleship or carrier.

I would've been taught other-worldly skills by the finest craftsmen in the world--Navy Chiefs. I would've seen ports the world over while on shore leave and been a true tourist. I would've grown up, same as I did anyway, but with a skill that would've made me better money while using my GI Bill to get through college. Instead, I sacked groceries and worked in a retail stockroom to help make ends meet.

A friend of mine who had been in the Navy as an electrician was making better than $10 an hour while we were in college--almost thirty years ago. I was making a fourth of that.

I guess what I'm saying is that one doesn't have to wear a funny hat and all that goes with it to truly serve their country. The most important thing the military teaches is Teamwork. The clerk sitting in an air-conditioned office back in Virginia or Fayetville or Coronado or MacDill might also be the person making sure the guy in the funny hat is getting paid. Or that the docs who sew him back up have the right orders to BE where they need to be to sew the guy up. Or he might be the guy who makes sure the guys in the funny hats have the right pictures to do their job or the right weapons.

Everyone in uniform is part of a bigger picture and everyone has role to play. The quarterback or running back on a football team might get the headlines and adoration, but not if he doesn't have a damned good line to block for him.

Get many opinions and weigh them all carefully. I'm a huge proponent of young people serving their country, and whatever job or role you choose, we'll all be proud. But it also pays to think down the road when you're no longer in uniform and how your individual quality of life will be.

Best of luck to you.

:coffee:

Buckshot
04-29-2009, 03:44 AM
..............I'm the oldest of 3 boys. We all went into the service, different branches. My youngest brother Brian, was a MArine. He was a hot Marine and he loved it. I don't know what his rating was (or specialty?) but he repaired all type of field electronics. On base they had a regular shop and when in the field they had a couple shops transported on the backs of deuce an a halfs. He would have stayed in, and the MArines desperatly wanted him to stay. In 4 years he was E5. He was offered another school and guarenteed E6 upon graduation. However after his stay in Okinawa his fiancée said it was her or the Corps. He got out but got a good job with Picker Electronics repairing hospital imaging equipment.

My middle brother Eric, joined the Army to be sent through medical school. He did his duty in Desert Storm Mk1, but he loathed the Army. He got out as a Captain, as soon as his contract was up. He should have been a Major. This is not a negative about the Army by any means, just that Eric was smarter then the Army, if you follow me? He is not one to be told what to do, and he knows best. He's a successful doc, and he STILL doesn't like being told what to do :-)

I went into the Navy. I was an Interior Communications Electrician. An IC Man. A "Low Voltage Technition" :-). None of our gear transmitted outside the hull. We handled the gyrocompass, sound powered phones, shipboard announcing systems, engine order telegraphs, most the alarms, and most any other electrical communicating/indicating stuff. My best friend joined the same time I did. He was an Electricians Mate. They were big fat voltage guys! Lottsa amps and volts, ha. They handled all the power generating equipment, distribution and lighting. He was offered a job at So, Cal. Edison when he got out, but became an electrical contractor.

All the services have their time away from home and families, but the Navy is truly more a way of life then a simple career. I loved my time in, but just didn't have enough gypsy in me to stay in.

http://www.fototime.com/09B63FD4B429270/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1370230C4D518A4/standard.jpg

This is the ship I was on. As the photo's show, it has it's ups and downs .............. as it were. You can see the sea is rather flat? Destroyers just do this on account of because.

http://www.fototime.com/881AFE3631FA92E/standard.jpg Port and Starboardhttp://www.fototime.com/5C0BA305A084054/standard.jpg

In a moderate blow. For some odd reason they call these "Boarding Seas"? Also known as "Dipping a Rail". So for excitement sometimes, your big gray mobile home gets run through these things. In a bad one, you can have green water hitting the bridge windows, and the Captains Gig you see in the left photo might not still be there, afterwards :shock:

A good point about shipboard duty is you get to see a lot of different places. Our deployment to the Indian Ocean saw us in Kingston, Jamaica; Port o Spain, Trinidad; Recife, Brazil; Luanda, Angola; Laurenco Marquez, Malagasi Rep; Masawa, Ethiopia; Bahrain, Iran; Mombasa, Kenya; Karachi, Pakistan; Diego Garcia, and the Seychelles Islands. Of course, as a 20 year old sailor I missed out on a lot of the cultural aspects, but I DID see some sights.

I am biased but I do think the Navy offers the most. You can be in the SeaBees and build stuff, Nuclear program Submarine or Surface, Submarines, Aviation afloat or ashore, and doing stuff like running 2 story tall Diesel engine main propulsion, nuclear propulsion, or jet turbine main propulsion. I don't know if there are still any oil fired high pressure steam plants anymore, but they couldn't pay me enough to work in one of those holes! Then there's all the different electronic stuff they have now.

All that stuff I worked on 37 years ago is long gone obsolete, but the ports of call are sure still there!

..............Buckshot

oldtoolsniper
04-29-2009, 05:39 AM
I am a retired Marine. 35 foreign countries and a few getting shot at tours under my belt. I spent 4 ½ years as a recruiter. As a recruiter my mission was three bodies a month. Failure was not an option. I put 135 “bones in the war” while I was a recruiter and I can count how many I remember on one hand. It’s the same for every service. You get a mission letter that tells you how many bones and what MOS they need to go into. The ASVAB test scores are a small part of what you need to consider in the situation you are facing. Legal involvement all the way down to parking tickets will cause you problems. Unlike being the president, drug involvement will prevent you from obtaining most jobs that require a clearance. Your credit rating will also affect your ability to obtain a clearance.

Understand this. The military goes to war, whether declared or not. It is not like TV. It is dirty, boring and monotonous 99% of the time. People die, and worse doing this. You will give up most of your rights in order to serve. Things you take for granted will become distant memories. You will become a foreigner in your own country. Most of the people you talk to will tell you they were a sniper, recon, green beret, delta force, or a seal, they were most likely a box kicker. Most jobs the military has don’t have much to do with the real world. I was an Infantry Weapons Repairman, a gunsmith…. See many Saco .50 cal machine guns around, how about 81MM mortars? Anyone you know use a nuclear submarine? Seen many ads for HUMVEE (Hummer) mechanics, Jet fighter repairman, Infantryman or military policeman? You are deciding on a way of life not a job. You are obligating yourself to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America no matter whether you are a box kicker or the door gunner for the Space Shuttle that is your primary job, what you went to school for is secondary.

Bret4207
04-29-2009, 07:05 AM
Marine here too. I had a very glamorous job- aviation supplyman. I signed up for Crash Crew, always wanting to be a fireman/rescue type. Guess what? They guarantee you a field, not a specific MOS, at least 30 years ago they did. Aviation Supplyman was in the same field as Crash Crew and Ground Support Equipment (plane starters). I made the best of it after I quit being mad and spent a lot time TDY on other jobs, IOW I was the fool who volunteered. It worked out for me.

Marines attend lots of Navy schools for the tech ratings. Not all Marines are bullet blockers and snipers. You can be a grunt and have the time of your life or you can be a grunt and hate it. It's up to you. For hands on mechanical stuff I'd try and stay on the Air Wing side rather than Motor-T. Nothing wrong with fixing trucks, but the Wingers tend to sleep in better barracks and not do field time Stateside.

There's nothing wrong with the Army or Air Force or Navy. It's just that none of them can say, "I was a Marine". It does say something about you. You don't need to be Superman, you have to have some guts to keep trying, no matter how bad it gets. Brains help too.

My second choice would be the Coast Guard. The Coasties had some nuts from some of the stuff I've seen them do. Plus, you might wind up chasing druggies in Fla. and that's a good thing too.

Think about this and make sure you want to do it. As far as danger you can choke on a hot dog today and you're just as dead and your family will miss you just as much. It's life, nothing you can do about it. As far as getting a skill you can use afterwords, it's the experience that you'll use, not the skill. Not much call for tank drivers, grunts or artillerymen out there. But there is a call for guys that are mature, know how to show up on time and stay late and get the job done no matter what.

Wayne Smith
04-29-2009, 07:43 AM
Couple a' things - Do you want to be they guy doing or the guy telling others what to do? Officer or enlisted, officers tell, enlisted do. Go to college to be an officer.

In general the Military is very good at putting round pegs in round holes, fitting people where they do well. However, all serve for the needs of the service which means that you may be stuffed into a square or triangular hole simply because the need is there. No guarantee or promise takes precidence over the needs of the service. You may or may not get what you want, and once you belong to Uncle Sam there ain't a whole lot you can do about it.

Military schools are, in general, excellent and all classes carry college credit. You get an education in the miliatry as an aviation mechanic and you have the same training you would get in the civillian world for the same speciality but with job security and loads of experience. You also learn to supervise, something you may never learn in the civilian sector. You get an education as an artilleryman and you have college level math classes.

You want to be a specialist, go Navy. You want to be a generalist, go Army Combat Engineers.

I live in Navy Town and counsel lots of guys wondering the same thing you are.

Leadforbrains
04-29-2009, 08:38 AM
I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps. I remember the conversation I had with Gunny Singleton
and Gunny Wilson on picking my MOS. They advised me that I should pick a technical MOS so I would have something to fall back on when I got out. That was very sage advice coming from two diffierent veteran 03s. Whatever branch you choose you should choose an MOS that will help you find work after you are discharged, and get as many schools and as much training as you can while you are in.

timkelley
04-29-2009, 09:27 AM
Gonna tell you what I told my kids. The Army and Marines "Walk" all the others ride. Make an informed decision.

Cherokee
04-29-2009, 09:57 AM
I chose the Army back in 1965. Went to officer training and spend two years service as a leader. That training has benefited me for the rest of my life. Sounds like you already know where your interest is, so look into the details of what is available from each branch, and thank you for serving your country.

Bladebu1
04-29-2009, 10:17 AM
frist I would say is find out what you like
you metal stuff and mech stuff
almost every Branch has jobs
go to each type of base and look at what they are treated like and what they live in
the Air force is up there
if you want a challange for you body Army and USMC
there is always the Navy too and Not all Navy gose to sea
I spent 20 years flying everywhere I went I built stuff alot of differnt places
as a US NAVY SEABEE they have steel workers too I will say you will deploy alot you travel alot (not always a good thing) we are part of the Navy I have worked for the Army the Air force and the USMC
I can tell you the Miltary is not for everyone
You can have a great time or a bad time it is what You put into it
it is more of a call to serve
You can get in do some schooling and get out and use the gi bill for more
it will be damm hard to do both at the same time
You can get a skill But not all skill apply to the real world
You will never get rich so do not do it for the money
alot of pepole Join for the schooling and stay for the pepole the serve with
I have meet alot of pepole I would die for and some I would have liked to kill to ( a lot less )
but in the end it is your choice
you have to live up to it
only do what you want to do
not what someone else wants you to do
all recuriters want the same thing to get you to sign. they will show you what they think you want to see. but look at each branch

I spent 20 in the Navy
My son is in the Army
By best friend went into the Core
and my brother was Air force
in the end it must be your choice

PatMarlin
04-29-2009, 10:27 AM
krag35-

I would like to ask you and your son Dale if my nephew Alex could piggyback on this thread with my handle and possibly join in?

He's trying to make the same decision in his life right now, and I can't think of a better group of folks to get honest experience and input from.


...

Beekeeper
04-29-2009, 10:42 AM
Like Buckshot I'm biased.
25 years in the Navy and I have never been sorry for one day of it.
I spent almost 20 years of it on Destroyers and 6 months a year away from home and family.
My recomendation is definately the Navy ( but like I said i'm biased).
You must decide for yourself on what you want out of the service!
The Air Force is an 8-5 5 day a week job.
The Army and Marines(no offence Marines for lumping you with the Army) are 24 hour 7 day a week jobs and a lot of rifle time.
The Navy is something special in my book.
You must commit to being gone at least half the time.Long streches of lonelyness and not seeing your family. Missing seeing your children growing up,proms,graduetions and so forth.
It is a career not a job and you must make the commitment to it but the end result is a life long independence that few ever realize.

My recomendation is you decide if it is to be short term or long term.
Short term join the Army or Airforce, get the education and move on.
Long Term, Join the Navy or Marines and become someone special by making it your lifes work.

Just an opinion from an old sailor.

Buckshot I Knew there was something special I liked about you (being an IC Man) so was I


beekeeper

Old Ironsights
04-29-2009, 10:53 AM
My 2p.

I was Combat Arms... Arty specifically with a few modifiers. Did some informal reclass/detatched work with EOD because I'm a sick basturd with a penchant/talent for making IEDs (for training purposes only...)

HOWEVER... in today's ECONOMIC climate, I'm fully onboard with Recluse here.

Speaking as someone stuck in the hell of overeducation and underemployment, let the military teach you a marketable Trade.

I could have gone to Tech School and been a Nuclear Engineer - with a skill that could have gotten me a $$$$ job even without a degree. But I didn't. I went in, had fun, blew stuff up, got shot at a little and then got kicked out by Billy Bob's RIFs... and found out that nobody hires a 30+ y/o white guy with a fresh college degree but no Trade.

Marketable Trade First.

atr
04-29-2009, 11:07 AM
I was US Army...regular army during the Vietnam conflict.
My best advice would be to decide what YOU like to do and then find that branch of the service which is compatiable and offers you the opportunities in your area of interest.

If at all possible, You want to leave the service with a marketable skill. If you decide to go into the combat arms (which is what I did) I can guarantee that your marketable skills when you leave the service will be limited. (Killing people for a living is NOT acceptable is civilian life).
Good Luck and be sure to "look before you leap"
atr

Old Ironsights
04-29-2009, 11:22 AM
...(Killing people for a living is NOT acceptable is civilian life).
...atr

Unfortunately... (sigh...)

montana_charlie
04-29-2009, 12:21 PM
on my asvab I scored in the 70s so i am able to most jobs
The 'overall' score on the ASVAB just determines if you are qualified to join the military. It also makes a difference if that score came from the ASVAB administered in high school...or one given by a recruiter.
Your actual 'job opportunities' within a particular branch depends on the sub-tests within the ASVAB.

To understand more about what the ASVAB is, and what it tells you, check out these five pages of information.
Read to understand...not just to say you did it.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/asvababcs.htm

Judging from your writing style (which is all we have to go on), you may have trouble advancing in the more highly technical fields.

CM

AZ-Stew
04-29-2009, 12:22 PM
Part II.

I went into the Navy hoping to become a Photographer's Mate. This was prior to the time when the services began guaranteeing jobs. I was guaranteed an "A" class school. After taking the classification exams in boot camp, the Navy learned that I had aptitude in mechanics and electronics (they didn't care about my opinion of my photographic aptitude). At my classification interview in boot camp, I was offered "advanced electronics" training if I'd just extend my enlistment from 4 to 6 years. I was 19 years old and looking for training in a trade that I could use when I left the Navy, so I took their offer after looking at a very long list of possible ratings (job types) that fell under the "advanced electronics" umbrella. The last one on the list, on the back page, was GMM (Gunner's Mate Missiles), a job I really didn't want. I was expecting Electronics Technician or Communications Technician, Maintenance. Well, the Navy knows best. My combined mechanical and electronic aptitude made me a perfect fit for GMM. I got a year of school out of it, which is in many ways comparable to several years in college. I graduated second in my "A" school class, first in "A-Phase II" and second in my "C" school class, only because I didn't cheat on one of the weekly exams like the rest of the class did. I wanted to get as much out of the schools as possible. I learned hydraulics, pneumatics, electrical systems at high and low voltage, electronics (though not at the level I wanted) and mechanisms I had never dreamed of. I spent a total of 9 years on active duty, then another 7-1/2 years in the Reserves, mostly as small arms instructor for two SeaBee units.

No, there's not much call in the civilian world for experts in the field of Mk 13 Guided Missile Launching Systems, but people who understand mechanisms that are hydraulically and pneumatically operated, and powered and controlled by a variety of eletrical and electronic systems have a wide variety of options open to them. We're very versitile in the mechanical world. You'll find lots of folks who can deal with mechanical stuff, some who can deal with hydraulics and/or pneumatics, a number who can work with electrical stuff, and a bunch who can deal with electronic circuits. But someone who can deal with all of them are rare. I use my skills in my job as a mechanical designer for the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer. Even though our product is used in digital electronics, there are many mechanical parts and operations required to manufacture them.

Just because you may end up with a military job that doesn't appear to have a civilian counterpart, if you apply yourself in school and on the job you will find your service skills useful when you leave the service.

By the way, Buckshot, thanks for the photos of the "surface subs". I spent my active duty time on DDGs, so I'm familiar with the skill of walking on the bulkheads, too. See my photos at: http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/navylife.htm and http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/portcall.htm

Regards,

Stew

Storydude
04-29-2009, 01:40 PM
All I can say is this:

Recruiters Lie.
Get it in writing before signing that line.

I never serve(MC accident in 1992 right out of highschool killed that chance for me, 85% disabled in right leg) but really wanted too.

After seeing many friends join up and end up nowhere NEAR what they wanted to do.....Recruiters Lie.

StarMetal
04-29-2009, 01:56 PM
Part II.

I went into the Navy hoping to become a Photographer's Mate. This was prior to the time when the services began guaranteeing jobs. I was guaranteed an "A" class school. After taking the classification exams in boot camp, the Navy learned that I had aptitude in mechanics and electronics (they didn't care about my opinion of my photographic aptitude). At my classification interview in boot camp, I was offered "advanced electronics" training if I'd just extend my enlistment from 4 to 6 years. I was 19 years old and looking for training in a trade that I could use when I left the Navy, so I took their offer after looking at a very long list of possible ratings (job types) that fell under the "advanced electronics" umbrella. The last one on the list, on the back page, was GMM (Gunner's Mate Missiles), a job I really didn't want. I was expecting Electronics Technician or Communications Technician, Maintenance. Well, the Navy knows best. My combined mechanical and electronic aptitude made me a perfect fit for GMM. I got a year of school out of it, which is in many ways comparable to several years in college. I graduated second in my "A" school class, first in "A-Phase II" and second in my "C" school class, only because I didn't cheat on one of the weekly exams like the rest of the class did. I wanted to get as much out of the schools as possible. I learned hydraulics, pneumatics, electrical systems at high and low voltage, electronics (though not at the level I wanted) and mechanisms I had never dreamed of. I spent a total of 9 years on active duty, then another 7-1/2 years in the Reserves, mostly as small arms instructor for two SeaBee units.

No, there's not much call in the civilian world for experts in the field of Mk 13 Guided Missile Launching Systems, but people who understand mechanisms that are hydraulicly and pneumatically operated, and powered and controlled by a variety of eletrical and electronic systems have a wide variety of options open to them. We're very versitile in the mechanical world. You'll find lots of folks who can deal with mechanical stuff, some who can deal with hydraulics and/or pneumatics, a number who can work with electrical stuff, and a bunch who can deal with electronic circuits. But someone who can deal with all of them are rare. I use my skills in my job as a mechanical designer for the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer. Even though our product is used in digital electronics, there are many mechanical parts and operations required to manufacture them.

Just because you may end up with a military job that doesn't appear to have a civilian counterpart, if you apply yourself in school and on the job you will find your service skills useful when you leave the service.

By the way, Buckshot, thanks for the photos of the "surface subs". I spent my active duty time on DDGs, so I'm familiar with he skill of walking on the bulkheads, too.

Regards,

Stew


The Navy wanted to send me to photographer school. I said no thanks, I'm not sitting in a sitting duck plane over Nam taking pictures.

The part about Buckshot being on a surface sub, well I'll bet he never went through a hurricane out at sea. I did and wrote about it, the story is online on some Destroyer website. To make the story short we almost sank, took a 56 degree roll and almost capsized, lost everyone of our life rafts, washed the fire hydrants off the main deck, flooded the ship, and we came into port bow down. Quite and experience to say the least.

Joe

Beekeeper
04-29-2009, 01:59 PM
Ah Stew,
Then you know about the spegetti in the overhead!
2100 destroyers were famous for the submarine time.

beekeeper

Marine Sgt 2111
04-29-2009, 02:29 PM
I have to agree with oldtool. My first enlistment was from '81-85, I got out for 21 years and after 2 years, 10 months and 2 days, at the age of 50, I was allowed to get back in and go to Iraq on deployment. The fact that I had a sterling record, had been on the 3rd air wing rifle and pistol team and that the depolying unit needed a 2111 (small arms repairman) got me the chance to go again, this time to war.

Recruiters are only interested in making their quota, period. If it's not in writing then you won't get it. Period. Pick a skill that will help you get a civilian job when you get out. People will talk up the infantry but those same gutless slugs will hide out on a FOB rather than get out in indian country and press the flesh. I have friends who are 03's and happy to be. They are motovated and hard charging Marines. I know others who talk the talk but run from walking the walk.

My son went into to the Corps the end of last summer as a reservist to go to school, be an Officer and fly a plane. He and I almost came to blows over him wanting to join (he must have bumped his head when he was little) as he was able to go to college free because I had gotten a purple heart when I was in Iraq. But he wants to make his way in life on his own merits. So he is in Optics Tech school, will graduate the end of May, come home and start college in the fall. What you might say will be his goal in college? MBA.

Think all of this over carefully, then think it over again. If you chose an infantry field then remember, you will serve as you are needed and killing or trying to stay alive when the other guy is trying to send you home in a bag is tough business.

I prefered the Marine Corps because when I was a kid I was a Young Marine when the rest of my friends joined boy scouts. My dad was in the Army and was wounded during WWII and my dad's father was in WWI in the Navy. Leather Neck, Doggy, Wing Nut or Coasty we all serve the same flag it's just how close to the edge you want to get.:Fire:

As a foot note, while I was in Iraq, '06-'07, even though I was brough aboard as a 2111, I volunteered to be a designated marksman and served as such working in and around Fallujah because I didn't want to sit on a FOB and twittle my thumbs. My desires, to work on the very edge, won me a purple heart and almost cost me my life.

StarMetal
04-29-2009, 02:50 PM
I have to agree with oldtool. My first enlistment was from '81-85, I got out for 21 years and after 2 years, 10 months and 2 days, at the age of 50, I was allowed to get back in and go to Iraq on deployment. The fact that I had a sterling record, had been on the 3rd air wing rifle and pistol team and that the depolying unit needed a 2111 (small arms repairman) got me the chance to go again, this time to war.

Recruiters are only interested in making their quota, period. If it's not in writing then you won't get it. Period. Pick a skill that will help you get a civilian job when you get out. People will talk up the infantry but those same gutless slugs will hide out on a FOB rather than get out in indian country and press the flesh. I have friends who are 03's and happy to be. They are motovated and hard charging Marines. I know others who talk the talk but run from walking the walk.

My son went into to the Corps the end of last summer as a reservist to go to school, be an Officer and fly a plane. He and I almost came to blows over him wanting to join (he must have bumped his head when he was little) as he was able to go to college free because I had gotten a purple heart when I was in Iraq. But he wants to make his way in life on his own merits. So he is in Optics Tech school, will graduate the end of May, come home and start college in the fall. What you might say will be his goal in college? MBA.

Think all of this over carefully, then think it over again. If you chose an infantry field then remember, you will serve as you are needed and killing or trying to stay alive when the other guy is trying to send you home in a bag is tough business.

I prefered the Marine Corps because when I was a kid I was a Young Marine when the rest of my friends joined boy scouts. My dad was in the Army and was wounded during WWII and my dad's father was in WWI in the Navy. Leather Neck, Doggy, Wing Nut or Coasty we all serve the same flag it's just how close to the edge you want to get.:Fire:

As a foot note, while I was in Iraq, '06-'07, even though I was brough aboard as a 2111, I volunteered to be a designated marksman and served as such working in and around Fallujah because I didn't want to sit on a FOB and twittle my thumbs. My desires, to work on the very edge, won me a purple heart and almost cost me my life.

Way to go Dwight, thanks for your service. I'm sure glad you are alive to see that Purple Heart. Keep an eye on that boy of yours.

Joe

krag35
04-29-2009, 02:57 PM
patMarlin i don't mind if Alex comes in to get some advice.

13Echo
04-29-2009, 03:01 PM
In 67 I enlisted in the Army. I was a sophomore in college and wasn't really ready for school and Vietnam was on. For no particularly good reason other than I like singleshot rifles I selected and got Field Artillery. Three years later I had grown up, was responsible and ready for school. I would not be where I am today if I hadn't enlisted. If you are looking to gain maturity and then go on to college or school I really recommend the combat arms of the Army or Marines. It matures you like nothing else can. If you're looking to serve and learn a useful trade then the advice given is good.

Jerry Liles
ex-Redleg

StarMetal
04-29-2009, 03:06 PM
In 67 I enlisted in the Army. I was a sophomore in college and wasn't really ready for school and Vietnam was on. For no particularly good reason other than I like singleshot rifles I selected and got Field Artillery. Three years later I had grown up, was responsible and ready for school. I would not be where I am today if I hadn't enlisted. If you are looking to gain maturity and then go on to college or school I really recommend the combat arms of the Army or Marines. It matures you like nothing else can. If you're looking to serve and learn a useful trade then the advice given is good.

Jerry Liles
ex-Redleg

Every branch of the service matures you. I think this is one of the big things missing in young people today. There is a definite difference between those who served and those that didn't.

Joe

Geraldo
04-29-2009, 03:37 PM
Special Operations. Get airborne qual'd. Language and a specialty field like engineers, medic, communications, weapons, etc. Spend some time in the Rangers and then a SF Group or 160th SOAR.

Just in case this is something anyone wants to do, it's nowhere near that easy. There is an enlistment option called 18X that guarantees a tryout for SF (not an 18 series MOS). First the enlistee has to go to basic/AIT, then to jump school, then to SOPC (prep course), then comes the SFAS, or selection. Only after that is one accepted to the Q course, which includes 18 series MOS, language school, etc. Failure at any point ends the deal.

1Shirt
04-29-2009, 04:34 PM
I started in the Marine Corps and finished in the Air Force, and regret neither. For pure discipline, and an acceptance of reality the Corps is a great place to start.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

bruce drake
04-29-2009, 04:49 PM
Started in the Marines. Enjoyed and loved my time there. Earned a Commission from the Army. Still in and enjoying this service as much as I did the Marines. Each service is a calling. You can't work as a Soldier or a Marine and punch a clock. We pay for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and a lot of the time we get our money's worth.

If you enjoy working with your hands, we do excellent training for machinists at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It's a good skill to have and pretty marketable in the civilian sector. Make sure you test out and get the CAD certification while you are there so you can run the Computer Assisted Cutters and Lathes.

MT Gianni
04-29-2009, 06:14 PM
Todays reserves have been used differently than any other in the past. Multiple deployments are a fact of life. I don't know what your girlfriend situation is but it takes a special committed marriage to last through two deployments. Friend at work got a letter midway through his wifes second deployment "don't bother coming over, the guy I'm living with would just as soon you didn't." It happens with both sexes.
The last Democratic President caused a reduction in our military forces, there is every reason to expect that this one will too. If you are committed to going in make sure that the field is not over-crowded and you have only a recruiter to "trust' with that. My son was given a general discharge with honorable conditions after admitting he had a beer off base at a private party 3 months before his 21st birthday. He has nothing good to say about the military as can be expected. Expect to find huge egos, good friends and backstabbers in the same ratio as exist in the civilian world, IMO. Go because you want to, not because you have no other easy choice. I would advise a couple of years of college and joining the reserves but all our experiences on this board are varied.

nicholst55
04-29-2009, 07:43 PM
on my asvab I scored in the 70s so i am able to most jobs i know i would like to do something i can use when i get out and I have highest scores in auto,shop and mechanical.


As a retired Army (Armament) mechanic, and one who is still in the Mechanical Maintnenance field as a DOD civilain, let me make a few observations. The Army doesn't really train "mechanics." They train parts-swappers - really major assembly-swappers. If a truck engine (transmission, etc) develops a serious problem, it is simply replaced and the engine is sent to either a Depot or contractor for rebuild. Either that, or the manufacturer has to repair it on-site under warranty. This is done because of two reasons: 1) it gets the vehicle back into service very quickly, and 2) it's cheaper and easier to train someone to swap engines than it is to troubleshoot, diagnose, and repair an engine. Private industry simply cannot afford to operate this way and many employers are reluctant to hire former military mechanics because of this. I heard this story on a daily basis when I was working for MATCO Tools.

If mechanics and wrenching interest you, I would suggest two things: 1) consider becoming a jet engine mechanic for the Air Force, or 2) go to tech school for two years and learn auto mechanics, with emphasis on running diagnostic equipment. You will have much, much more marketable experience when you begin looking for a civilian job that way.

Something to think about, anyway.

trk
04-29-2009, 09:55 PM
I was drafted in May of '70. Same time "suicide is painless" was in the top 40.

Went into Army Security Agency as a ECM/DF Systems Repairman.
Went to Field Artillery OCS, they didn't need cannon cockers when I graduated so I took a commission in Signal Corps.
Was in the Signal Corps Training Center in evaluating training and then in Logistics for the rest of my 4 years active.
Spent the rest of my 23 years in Guard and Reserve.
Infantry Company Commander, Provost Marshall and wrote training exercises for Battalions.
Retired last month.

Now my comments about your decisions:

Air Force has the best developed personnel system. Is run more like a business.
Navy has excellent schools and structured progression based on qualifications (is also most class segregated).
Army - hmmm. I did a lot of DIFFERENT things.

Look to see how the civilian community (employers) value each branch's schooling/training/experience.

Talk to some folks that are IN THE POSITIONS that you are considering. (That's easy if you have a N.G. unit nearby - the Air Force has a "Shadow" program that allows you to spend time during the day with someone actually doing his/her job.

I took my grandson through a day in the Iowa Airforce N.G. - a MOST interesting day. (Happened to meet a former student of mine (Iowa State) and got some special treatment too.)

Good luck on the decision and your career - let us know how your researching the field goes.

Ole
04-29-2009, 10:47 PM
I was in the USAF reserves. It will always be one of my life's proudest achievements to say I got to work on F16's for 20 years. I retired in March of '07 when my unit was BRAC'ed.

I will say you can get a lot out of being in the military.

I will also say you're best shot at making it 20 years is if you start young. The younger the better, because the stuff they pull starts getting on your nerves in your late 30's.

It's what you make of it though. I have a great admiration for those and their family's that are currently serving. We owe them a lot.

Take care and best O luck in whatever you decide.

Matt

Lloyd Smale
04-30-2009, 07:56 AM
listen to some of the advice here and it will be a productive 4 years that a guy can get paid to learn a trade. Make sure you go with the right attitude. Listen and obey!! Make sure before you sign any enlistment papers you have a guarateed school in your career choise after basic. While in school buckle down and learn. You can party when you get to your duty assinment after the school is done. Another thing to consider is what kind of training you want. Ive seen kids that love to fool with dirt bikes and snowmobiles figure that they wanted to be a mechanic and went into something like tank mechanic or heavy equip. mechanic and come out and the only work they could find is at the local gas station. Pick a field that has employment oportunitys when you get out! The miltary has some of the best electronic training schools in the country. I worked at a power plant for years and when they hired electronic techs. they considered military schoole equivelent to college. Like was said earlier, NEVER tunred down training or another school. Even if it doesnt pertain to your career field. It all looks good on a resume when your looking for work later in life. Have fun but save about a hour of your free time every day to study for promotion. Even if dont have time in service enough to get promoted. It will gurantee that when you do you will breeze through any tests. Again it looks much better on your resume afterward that you were an e5 afte 4 years then it would comming out an e2. the modern military is a hell of a deal for someone that wants to take advantage of everything they offer. But if you have a bad attitude when your there it will be the longest 4 years of your life.

WickedGoodOutdoors
04-30-2009, 09:41 AM
Had a low draft # so I joined the Navy as a Diver. Figured Id get out as soon as I could with the Resume and go work for $500 and hour on the oil rigs.

Navy Figured differnt. They told me they needed Divers on Subs so they sent me to Sub school, then the sent me to Nuclear Weapons School then I became a Guinie Pig testing Boats coming out of the yards to plug the leaks and put out the fires, curise around and shoot a few missles. got to listen to Shrimp and Whales and eat anything I wanted from the Gourmet Galley You get to work 18 hour shifts at sea puncuated by silly Battle Stations and lots of horns and whistles every few hours. Then in port you only have to work 18 hours per day on your off day. Such a deal.

So. I did get a Swine Flue shot in Bootcamp and was paralized for a couple days. Maybe I built up some imunity. They also were so kind as to give me complete imunization shots for every duty station that I visited. Lucky Me. Corpmen are nice but the dont do well recordkeeping.

If I had to do it all again I would have to think about being a US Coast Guard Acadamey instructor on how to walk puppy dogs on the beach or maybe command the Square Rigger.


Then again with Obama in Office I would not serve in his Miltary at all as I don't agree with his politics and can see making any sacrafice so that snot nose whinners can play on welfare and sit around collecting my tax dollars.


Maybe Becoming a "Privateer" Would be more inline with my priciples.


http://www.ship-paintings.com/large_images/rattlesnake.jpg

PatMarlin
04-30-2009, 09:58 AM
I've got close friends that are suffering substantial health problems later on in life from serving our country. The sacrafice continues. Thank you all who was there to preserve our freedom here in America.


...

RugerFan
04-30-2009, 10:12 AM
If you enjoy working with your hands, we do excellent training for machinists at Aberdeen Proving Ground. It's a good skill to have and pretty marketable in the civilian sector. Make sure you test out and get the CAD certification while you are there so you can run the Computer Assisted Cutters and Lathes.

Very true. Army MOS 44E Machinist is good way to go.

Consider doing something similar what my son is doing right now. He joined the Georgia National guard last year and is attending North Georgia as a Cadet (Many 4-year universities have ROTC programs). He got a $20,000 enlistment bonus and between the Guard kicker and tuition assistance, they are just throwing money at him every month. I don't have to pay for a thing. His education is paid for. When he graduates, he will be commissioned a 2nd LT and then has the choice of staying NG or going active duty.

If you opt for the enlisted route, absolutely pick an MOS that has direct civilain applications and is something you think you would enjoy.

-Retired U.S. Army Warrant Officer

oldtoolsniper
04-30-2009, 02:05 PM
I was lucky, for me the Marine Corps was pretty easy. I was one of the few who seemed to just fit in the Corps. I spent most of my time doing other things then my job. I have something like 21 months of sea time (floating on a ship). I volunteered to go overseas every chance I could. I have worked with every branch of service and met some incredible people. I met a lot of major buttholes too. It can be an extremely dangerous and dirty job and it can be extremely boring and lonely. Recruiters do not need to lie because you don’t know. Fire-watch? Picking up cigarette buts even if you don’t smoke, duty on holidays, week-ends and everyday in between. Field days, inspections and formations. Humping 26 miles with a 60lbs pack to end up right where you started for a monthly test. Having to pee in the bottle whenever and wherever. Living on bases at some of the most expensive places on this planet and making less then someone on welfare. Car insurance in California for a young driver costs more than the car. You can’t operate the vehicle without it. Parades that you will practice for days, and days for just to impress some politician who could care less but he/she needs a photo op. Being told how many, what type and what size pictures you can hang on your wall. What color blankets, sheets and pillows you will have. How your stuff will be arranged in your wall locker and what you can have in it. Where you will stack or display your shoes, What kind of clothing you will wear on your days off. What places out in town you are prohibited from entering. The list goes on and on. Recruiters don’t lie because they don’t have to. I was never asked one thing about any of this when I was recruiter. I didn’t ask any of it either because I did not know. It is a way of life and if you are a good Marine (in my case) you don’t make a good civilian.

Beekeeper
04-30-2009, 03:55 PM
oldtimesniper,
I have never seen or heard it stated better.
I think if you are able to accept all of those conditions you don't make a good civilian.
I KNOW I'M NOT


beekeeper

mike in co
04-30-2009, 09:32 PM
Had a low draft # so I joined the Navy as a Diver. Figured Id get out as soon as I could with the Resume and go work for $500 and hour on the oil rigs.

Navy Figured differnt. They told me they needed Divers on Subs so they sent me to Sub school, then the sent me to Nuclear Weapons School then I became a Guinie Pig testing Boats coming out of the yards to plug the leaks and put out the fires, curise around and shoot a few missles. got to listen to Shrimp and Whales and eat anything I wanted from the Gourmet Galley You get to work 18 hour shifts at sea puncuated by silly Battle Stations and lots of horns and whistles every few hours. Then in port you only have to work 18 hours per day on your off day. Such a deal.

So. I did get a Swine Flue shot in Bootcamp and was paralized for a couple days. Maybe I built up some imunity. They also were so kind as to give me complete imunization shots for every duty station that I visited. Lucky Me. Corpmen are nice but the dont do well recordkeeping.

If I had to do it all again I would have to think about being a US Coast Guard Acadamey instructor on how to walk puppy dogs on the beach or maybe command the Square Rigger.


Then again with Obama in Office I would not serve in his Miltary at all as I don't agree with his politics and can see making any sacrafice so that snot nose whinners can play on welfare and sit around collecting my tax dollars.


ok, that was one sour apple so far in the navy.

the truth is i got out as an e6....i had been an e6 for almost 7 years( i made e6 at just over 4 yrs.....no longer possible)....i had pizzed off one of my commanding officers which thru several months got me a very low set of evaluations, an attempt to kick me out of the service and an major stain on my record. in the end, i ended the co's career and his commments ended mine.
i got over 2 years of schools, a couple yrs in hawaii, a couple yrs in the san fran bay and started and ended in san diego. my pay when i got out was twice that of a land bound e6....nuc pay, sub pay, supervisor pay, sea pay...etc.

i went in for adv electronics, got bigged talked into nuc's and lost the electronics for mechanics...i did have a degree there...dang.
they actually assigned jobs straight down a list. mr moore was the last et, i was the first mm..( last name is nag...)..i was more qualified for the et....out scored mr moore in both areas.......
so much for the most qualified.
i survived....but did not reach my goal of e7 and 20 yr retirement.
used part of my gi bill but got timed out when they changed the rules.
have used the va med services since i am self employeed.

mike in co

wildwilly
04-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Rest assured, having performed military service will place yourself in a very unique and distinguished category among Americans. Semper Fi

Marine Sgt 2111
04-30-2009, 11:39 PM
When my son enlisted in the Marine Corps,as a reservist, he was told he could use the GI Bill to go to school. He is in Optics School even now and found out today that as a reservist he was supposed to be paying into the bill to take advantage of it. I tried to tell him. He can still go to college for free only now it will be on my purple heart. Read the contract CAREFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StarMetal
04-30-2009, 11:44 PM
ok, that was one sour apple so far in the navy.

the truth is i got out as an e6....i had been an e6 for almost 7 years( i made e6 at just over 4 yrs.....no longer possible)....i had pizzed off one of my commanding officers which thru several months got me a very low set of evaluations, an attempt to kick me out of the service and an major stain on my record. in the end, i ended the co's career and his commments ended mine.
i got over 2 years of schools, a couple yrs in hawaii, a couple yrs in the san fran bay and started and ended in san diego. my pay when i got out was twice that of a land bound e6....nuc pay, sub pay, supervisor pay, sea pay...etc.

i went in for adv electronics, got bigged talked into nuc's and lost the electronics for mechanics...i did have a degree there...dang.
they actually assigned jobs straight down a list. mr moore was the last et, i was the first mm..( last name is nag...)..i was more qualified for the et....out scored mr moore in both areas.......
so much for the most qualified.
i survived....but did not reach my goal of e7 and 20 yr retirement.
used part of my gi bill but got timed out when they changed the rules.
have used the va med services since i am self employeed.

mike in co

I made E5 in less then 3 years. I turned down nuke school. I wasn't interested in staying in the whole 6 years active. I'm glad I wasn't around anything nuclear too. Most the Navy men I know that went nuke or did nuke sub duty have very very good jobs after getting out of the Navy.

Joe

Buckshot
05-01-2009, 03:27 AM
.............One BIG thing I notice is how nicely everyone from the various branches are playing together :-) No name calling and stuff. Congratulations!

Since my time in the Navy was 37 years ago, I can't say for sure about schooling now but I'm sure it's the same. And the same for other branches also. I'll speak of the Navy only, and the way it was when I was in.

If you enlist for 4 years active duty your list of job opportunities lessens. A 4 year enlistment eliminates you from any of the nuclear programs, first of all. I enlisted to be an IC Man, whose duties I listed in my previous post. At the time they had a battery of tests and my GCT-ARI score (GCT stood for something, and if I ever knew I've forgotten. ARI was Arithmatic) qualified me for any field I wished to enter. I first got a "P" school which is a "Preparatory" school. This was Basic Electricity and Electronics. It was an 8 week school.

After that I was sent to an "A" school. "A" schools are the first school you attend dealing specificly with what you'll be doing. This was a 13 week school. In this case learning about, and how to repair some of the various pieces of equipment IC men are responsible for. Bear in mind that there is more then one guy in the IC shop (a destroyer type will have 3-4). As a new guy you're taught the very basics. Pretty much troubleshooting type stuff.

I mentioned we had the Gyrocompass as a piece of our gear, and they sure in the heck aren't expecting or going to turn an E-3 fresh from school loose on the ship's gyrocompass. The IC shop (like the others) will have a shop PO (petty officer) who is in charge. Maybe even a chief (E-7, E-8, or E-9). Between you, the newbie and the shop PO will be a couple other guys. Probably most will be like you, and that is you've had the basic 4 year enlistment type school(s). Naturally upward of the shop PO, is an officer of some description. He won't know squat about fixing anything at all, usually.

So for a 4 year active duty enlistment you'd get your basic school. You learned further by applying what you learned in school by actually working on, and maintaining the equipment. If your shop PO is a good guy he'll also fill you in on the more advanced stuff that he may have gone to school on.

The military isn't going to spend a lot of money on education (Schools) in your field if you're going to be leaving in 4 years. When I was in "A" school they had some guys come into the class expounding the virtues of the nuclear program. The NUC's required a 6 year enlistment as you'd get almost 2 years of school. The Navy wanted to put that money to use in their having you for 4 years outside of school. We were promised an automatic promotion to E-4 upon completion of IC "A" school, and our extending for 2 years for the NUC program. I did not take them up on their offer.

Now if you plan on getting anything out of your time, you have to apply yourself. If you can show them (whichever branch you choose) that you're serious and motivated they'll make a large effort to keep you. Say you made E-5 (2nd class petty officer) and it's getting toward the end of your 4 year enlistment. You've stayed out of trouble and gotten good fitness reports and have generally been an asset. You'll probably be "Counseled" by various and sundry individuals as to your 'Re-upping'. Possibly even the captain (second only after GOD if aboard ship) may have a word.

I mentioned my youngest brother was a darn good Marine and he loved what he did. He was an E-5 at the end of his enlistment. They wanted him very badly to re-enlist. He was promised a school and an automatic promotion to E-6 upon it's completion. In the Navy it would be similar enticements. The various branches also have "Critical Rates" where they'll pay you a sometimes considerable sum to re-up if you're in one of them. Depending uopn what it is you're wanting to accomplish, these advanced schools could be a good deal.

So far as the gear we had responsibility for, the gyrocompass was the most complicated and sofisticated. The ship I was on was commissioned in 1945 at the tail end of WW2. I don't know if the gyro we had was an original type to that era or not. I do remember it was a Mk 11 made by Speery and it had TUBES! Great BIG thyratron tubes :-) in it's amplifier system. A couple newer ships I visited had Mk13's, but they were also maybe 10 or more years old at the time. However they did NOT have tubes, but black boxes with a red light on them. If you had a problem you'd open the cabinet and remove the black box with the glowing red light, and hopefully you had a good replacement as they were non-repairable.

In that vein one of the schools you might be sent to would have been to actually go to the Speery Corp and go through their technitions schools. If in aviation you might go to Pratt & Whitney's jet engine schools. Lots of todays Navy ships are powered by jet turbines, so you might have machinists mates in there with the zoomies.

If I was going to go into the service nowadays (knowing what I know now) and if I was to go into the Navy I'd be an Electronics Technition. We had Electricians Mates which oversaw all the power generation and distribution, and then us Interior Communications Electricians who dealt with kind of middle of the road sofisticated electrical/electronic stuff. But at the top of the heap were the ET's. A lot of them were NUC's. These were the guys who repaired and maintained the various radars, guidance systems, navigation stuff, electronic countermeasures, etc and oh yeah, their friend's reel to reels and radios :-).

I know other branches have similar people doing this stuff. After I got out (unless I decided to stay) I'd be in a very good position to easily handle 4 years of college to become an electrical engineer, or similar.

And I'm going to plug the Navy again :-) In any branch you'll make good friends that last a long time, if not forever. They're your shipmates in the Navy and Coast Guard, squadies or whatever the term is in the Corp, the Army, or Air Force. If you fly in the air it's for short times, and everyone spends a lot of time walking on the ground, but sailing the oceans and being on the water can be a sublime place to be for so many different reasons. The gentle movements and rolling is always there. Even after 37 years I can still mentally sense the feeling of the moving deck.

...................Buckshot

Phil
05-01-2009, 10:04 AM
Just to emphasize the difference, I was drafted in 1964. I was in the Army for two years active service, two years ready reserve, and two years inactive reserve. In my two years active service, I was a senior wheeled vehicle mechanic, missile launch crewman, heavy machine gunner (M2HB) and light machine gunner (M60), Divisional and Army level CBR team member, had 40 hours of combat first aid, spent most of one summer competing in Service Rifle matches, created two very cushy jobs for myself, and made E-5 in either 16 or 18 months, I can't remember. I met a heck of a lot of great guys who I would like to see again. A few turkeys but that can be equally said of civilian life. I spent a bit of time around the Air Force and was treated with great courtesy by them. I tried to reciprocate whenever I could. Met few Marines or Navy and the same went for them. We were all in the same boat, so to speak.

I also got to go to two GP races at Spa, Belgium, and two or three races at Nurburgring, Germany. Plus seeing a lot of Europe into the bargain. Something I could never do again as I couldn't afford it.

When I got out, my gross pay per MONTH was something like $200.00. After taxes I think it was something like $160. Not sure on that, I'd have to find my old records and look. I kept copies of everything that I was given.

I didn't get to go to any schools. They asked me what I did as a civilian and I told them. Also told them that I'd like to go to some schools. I was told that with the experience I had there was no need for schooling. Oldtoolsniper, Buckshot, and the others were right on the money. Their posts brought back a lot of memories. Some good, some bad. Whoever said all you are in the military is a parts changer is for the most part correct. Unless you are a dedicated scrounger. I think they call them operators today. Then we were just a bunch of guys trying to do a job and go home. It's been a long road, and not all of it has been paved.

In the current political climate, with the current administration, I would NEVER willingly join the military.

Cheers,

Phil

Old Ironsights
05-01-2009, 10:19 AM
...In the current political climate, with the current administration, I would NEVER willingly join the military. ...Phil

DESPITE the current political climate and cryptofascist/leftist administration, and BECAUSE of the economic climate, I'd be all about getting in and having someone else pay for both Technical Training and "management school"... so when you get out you don't have both an obscene amount of Student Debt but no "experience" to try and earn a living.

But you are partly right, in the current political climate, with the current administration if you can avoid Combat Arms, it would probably be a good thing.

Mallard57
05-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Hi,
I'd say check them all out. Just because you have a particular preference of what you want to do doesn't mean they have a position available. I'd talk to all of them and see what they offered.
That all being said, the Air Force was pretty good to me.
Jeff

mike in co
05-01-2009, 10:46 AM
I made E5 in less then 3 years.
Joe


well...being 22, a nuc and a college grad..it came quick......e3 out of boot camp, e4 5 months later out of A school, one yr later to the day e5( that was a total of about 20 months), and e6 at 4 yrs.....could have been under 4 yrs...my command held me back( rightly so).

stuff that cannot be done today.


there are great benefits from the service.

all in all i had a good time, but it was good for me to get out when i did.

mike in co

1Shirt
05-01-2009, 06:20 PM
It is interesting going thru all of these threads. When I enlisted in Unkle Sam's Marine Corps, there were only 7 enlisted ranks, E1-E7. I started out to join the Navy because a friend of mine was a whitecap. The Navy recruiter was not in the office, but there was an old Gunny who showed me how to break down a Garand, and told me they would issue me one if I was a Marine. How could you pass up an offer like that? Was on Paris Island 2 days after graduation from High School. Sure was a lousy way to spend a summer. 90 degrees at 9:00 a.m.That was in the mid 50's. At that time, it was not uncommon to see 20+year retirees going out as E5's, and occaisionaly as an E-4. And those were individuals with clean records. E-6 was fairly common, and MSgt E-7 was uncommon unless you were well over 20. That was true of the Marine Corps and the Air Force. Rank came faster in the Army back then, but was easire to loose, and the Navy and Coast Guard fell someplace inbetween. E-8 and E-9 Came in around 1958 if memory serves me right, and I was one of the first to hold the rank of L/Cpl. I got out after one hitch and came back in the AF as an E-3, supply type, and made E-4 with a total of 4 years active. Made E-5 SSgt under 6, almost unheard of at that time for a supply type, and E-6 TSgt under 10. Took another 4 to make MSgt, and 3 after that to Make SMSgt. Some of the tech MOS/AFSC skills got promoted fast. Served in one joint service outfit (AF and Navy) and we had a Navy Quartermaster who had Chief's Crows on under 10. He was book smart, and cocky, and lacked common sense. Also had a 3rd. Class PO Yoeman who had 8-9 years who had it all over the Quartermaster, but Yomen were on the lo end of the Navy totem pole back then. Nam speeded up promotions based upon necessities for some career fields. Noticed that quite a few recommended commissions, and I can not fault that. I turned down Army Warrent Officers bars twice during Nam, and could have been commissioned in the AF. That said, I have no regrets being a Sr.NCO, as I had more authority and responsibility in the Sr. NonCom Ranks than most Captains, a fair number of majors, and a few semi useless Lt.Col's. Commissioned retired pay would have been nice, but that would be looking back, and I prefer to look ahead. Have been retired for nearly 30 years, and still miss the Military. I have always said that the military is a great life for those who appreciate it and love it, and a lousy life for those who do not. Today I see active duty members both enliste and commissioned in various ranks and grades that would not have made it in my day. I have seen in the past couple of years virtually all ranks that are very much overweight and out of shape. Probably great techs, but not great on image. They are fortunately, a small minority of what I see on base. The majority on active duty are pretty well squared away. It is the standards that I have seen slip that bother me. Then again I predate the "Don't ask/Don't tell" military of the Clinton era. One of the sadest days in my life was the day I retired from the AF. On the day I retired I had status, responsibility, and authority. On the day after I retired, I had a retirement check, and was from then on a PFC. Old timers know what that means.
1Shirt!:coffee:

felix
05-01-2009, 06:37 PM
Very good, 1Shirt. I enjoyed that because your career paralleled mine for the most part. Now I don't have to write my backgound in terms of management progression. I refused my promotions for the most part (not the salary, though) because the higher you went in the technical fields, the more people management was required. I too entertained "directorship" positions, not leader positions when and where possible. The downside of that is when projects go to different companies. The new company always hires out the pure people management jobs first, and these guys bring in their experts. So, the moral of the story is to always find a guy who you like as your boss, and move around until you do. ... felix

Phil
05-01-2009, 06:37 PM
1Shirt,

Great post!

Phil

PatMarlin
05-01-2009, 07:27 PM
Great stories.

Taylor
05-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Food for thought. I was a biology major-joined the army as a lab tech.There are no lab tech schools in Ft Benning Ga. Then I became brain washed. Yes we were bad,gung ho,and all that crap,have a bunch of stories to tell,but...grunts do not find very good employment,outside of Rhodesa and S.America.Plus there is no guarantee you will get paid.Point is,find an MOS that will provide you with the skills to get a good job when you get out or retire.Yes they still will lie to you.

Phil
05-02-2009, 08:49 AM
Hi Old Ironsights,

Don't forget, once you're in the military and if the need arises you'll be what they tell you to be. At least that's the way it used to be. I have no idea what the military is doing today. My old motor sergeant used to ask "what is your PMOS?". You could say 631.10 or whatever you were (tech or support MOS's) and he'd just grin and say "NO, your PMOS is 111.10" combat infantry. He used this to drive home a point. I loved that man, he was a no bs guy and got things done when no one else could. I really miss him.

Cheers,

Phil

Old Ironsights
05-02-2009, 09:13 AM
True... All Grunts, Army or Marine, are Infantry First... even Band Members.

But it's tough to be Infantry when you are working on the Boilers/Nuc plant of a Carrier/Sub... ;)

Phil
05-02-2009, 09:30 AM
I hear ya, but its the idea of the thing sinking, and if you survive that there are the sharks. Remember the Indianapolis? (:>)

Cheers,

Phil

Jkeith
05-02-2009, 10:59 AM
As has been stated before it depends on what you want and where you want to be. I have served in or with 3 of the branches USAF, USN, USMC as active duty and reserve, each has its good and bad points. The USAF has great tech training and great working conditions, USN great tech and travel, USMC leadership and discipline living conditions leave something to be desired, I have not served with the Army so will leave that eval to others. Good luck with what ever you decide and take everything the recruiter tells you with a grain of salt :)

Semper Fi
Doc Keith HMCS (FMF)
USNR (Ret)

MT Gianni
05-02-2009, 11:35 AM
If you decide not to serve, there is a reported shortage of 50,000 utility line workers that will occur in the Northwest US in the next 7-10 years. Schooling is available. In the gas trades there is a big shortage also but it will have less of an impact. Once you are qualified for a utility you can work in a town of 1000 people or less or 10 million. Wages are generally kept the same for either. Lot's of callouts and overtime, if you climb poles no insurance company will ensure your life but good wages and benefits. I currently get 5 weeks vacation from 12-24 years, 6 weeks after 24 years and 6 weeks plus 2 days for over 30 years. A couple of people I work with recently got their 40 year service awards.
You will not see the world on anyone else's dime, you will pay for every meal you eat and you will see some interesting country and wildlife. You may find yourself 50 feet up a pole in a windstorm or welding on a fitting while gas is blowing a safe distance away and cops, fire and supervisors are all standing over your shoulder "waiting on the welder". Opportunities are out there in every economic climate for those who want them.

PatMarlin
05-02-2009, 11:40 AM
That is a great idea G.

My friends son is a lineman and he makes VERY good money. I woulda loved to do that ..:mrgreen:

jawjaboy
05-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Navy here too, '68-'72. IC man as well Buckshot. :wink: 8 weeks of BEE school, 16 weeks of A school, and one year later 12 weeks of C school on the Mk. 19 gyro.

My take on the Navy was/is its schools. They are excellent. A ship is like a city unto itself. It has to have propulsion, fresh water, air conditioning, refrigeration, heating, electricity, communications, etc, etc, etc. All of this has to be operated and maintained 24/7/365. Sailors trained in these engineering fields were and still are highly desired in industry. Over 50% of my department on my job of 30 years this month are ex-Navy engineering ratings.

Whatever your choice in branches of service, you have my utmost respect for your service to country.
.

jaystuw
05-03-2009, 03:13 AM
I was a lineman for the southern california edison company for many years and am now a senior cable splicer. In july, I will have 30 years service. I will let you in on a little secret. It is this- You can do very well financially in this line of work. A lot of guys I work with are,well, how can I say this, Just really well off. and thats not counting our 401k's (which are in the toilet like everyone else). Owning mutiple homes, ranchs, vacation cabins and condos is not unusual. owning your own home is the norm. last week 2 of my buddys bought late model used cars, a hummer-$19k and a suburban $25k . each looked like new with all the bells and whistles. each guy payed cash. I was impressed-well,sort of, for about 5 min. The fact is guys get cars , boats and motorcycles, all the time at work . To me thats kids stuff . The big deal is when a guy gets an extra house!
I must warn you however, that there are little,if any free rides in life, and being a high voltage lineman is no exception , the work can be tough, dirty and dangerous. some of the guys are jerks and you can expect to work long hours in the worst weather. the company will not tolerate rule or safety violations and will take action if you can't or won't go along with the program. Also the guys that are just this side of being down right rich got that way over the course of many years by being very careful with their money and doing without alot of stuff early on.
With that being said ,i can also add that the work is not as bad as i make it sound , you are outside, going to diffrent locations all the time, you and your buddies can laugh at the jerks and bullies if you want . And like anything else the more you do it the easier it gets . also the guys and the company will look out for you . that the way the place works.
I might also add that I served 4 years in the army as an infantry man just after the vietnam war- the edison company is a far better deal.

PatMarlin
05-03-2009, 10:14 AM
-jerks and bullies =onsite entertainment ...:mrgreen:

Lineman work here in the Pacific Northwest would be heaven. Offshore fishing on your days off. Trout fishing affter work. Hunting to your heart's desire. Wild hippie chicks that smoked just enough pot for that special glow.

Wish my nephew would get back. Want him to see this thread.

carpetman
05-03-2009, 11:57 AM
I was Air Force for 26 years--5 of those years as a recruiter. I resent the posts saying recruiters lie. I recruited in rural Idaho and you talk about a grapevine. The people knew people in all of the small towns. They played sports against one another,many were of the same religion--on and on---if you told someone a lie in one small town--that spread like wildfire and you are toast. One recruiter from another branch tried to make it by lying and in a few months he was history. No way I would have been a very successful recruiter for 5 years had I been telling lies. Remember the guys I recruited came back home on leave and still communicated with folks in the area. Very often they dropped in to see me and have coffee--gosh had I lied to them you think they would want to do that? Many times they would talk to people in the area that were trying to decide. I also received a lot of letters and kept everyone of them. I could ask an applicant if they knew so and so from their town---they usually did. I could show them the letter and tell them this is what he/she has to say about it.
On the other side of the coin,this happened a lot. Little Johnny arrives in boot camp and the TI (training instructor) gets in their face and yells at them. I had told them this WILL happen. Guess they thought it wouldn't happen to them. Little Johnny starts crying and says I lied to my recruiter--I told him I hadn't smoked pot--but I smoked it all the time. The Air Force sends little Johnny home and he tells everyone--the Air Force promised me this that and the other but failed to keep the promise----the recruiter lied to me-- so I got out. This word also makes it to the recruiter so you call up little Johnny and tell him to cool it or you'll let folks know what really happened.
Certainly as a former recruiter I am partial to the Air Force, had I felt otherwise how could I have been successful as a recruiter? I do admire the other branches. During the years I recruited (1973-1978) the Air Force had the highest entrance standards. There was not ONE case of the other branches having an applicant they rejected that they could refer to me. I referred my rejects to all the other branches on a routine basis. This is not a knock on the other branches----they had a need for the folks I sent them.
I retired in 1987, and it's been over 30 years since I recruited so my info would be dated. Any of the youngsters considering going in that would like to talk to me send me a PM with your number and I can call you.

trk
05-03-2009, 09:44 PM
I was Air Force for 26 years--5 of those years as a recruiter. I resent the posts saying recruiters lie. ...


OK, I'll take your word for it, there are recruiters that don't lie. There are good lawyers. There are good used car salesmen, and good politicians. .....

As a class, bad reputation (that IS the perception). Individuals are OK. (that is a comment about US as a nation - how we perceive and react to others)

I have no personal gripes about recruiters, lawyers nor politicians; but my DRAFT BOARD!!!! That's another story.

krag35
05-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I would like to thank all of you so fa for the advice i will get in contact with all branches and see who is offering me the best deal.and I will give an update on that i decide to do.

Old Ironsights
05-04-2009, 09:54 PM
OK, I'll take your word for it, there are recruiters that don't lie. There are good lawyers. There are good used car salesmen, and good politicians. .....

As a class, bad reputation (that IS the perception). Individuals are OK. (that is a comment about US as a nation - how we perceive and react to others)

I have no personal gripes about recruiters, lawyers nor politicians; but my DRAFT BOARD!!!! That's another story.

FWIW... as much as Carpetman & I don't see eye to eye (it's not possible what with him staring at sheep...) my recruiter told me like I saw it.

No lies, no dissembling. But then, he wasn't trying to convince me of anything either.

IMO the BEST fictional depiction of the way Recruiting SHOULD be was in Starship Troopers... The Recruiter tried to keep you OUT of the Service by scaring the piss out of you/showing you his wreck of a carcass. Only the most dedicated Join, and only later do you find out that the Reuruiter simply "forgets" to wear his "good as new" prosthetics while on the job...

Recluse
05-05-2009, 01:48 AM
My recruiter was straight up with me and held up his end of the deal. It was my doing that I fell for the "recruiting" film in basic training that had me changing jobs.

BUT, I know guys that TO THIS DAY should they ever cross paths with their recruiters, they WILL do serious bodily harm to them and to hell with the consequences.

About the only recruiters I never worried about were Marine recruiters. Everyone knows that you're a rifleman first, specialist second. That's what the Corps is about. So anyone that whines about their Marine Corps recruiter was a wuss to begin with and never Corps material in the first place.

:coffee:

carpetman
05-11-2009, 03:03 PM
Military has a jargon of it's own and it is easy to use terms others aren't familar with. This thread has some I don't know for sure what they are. One term that has been used here is ASVAB. That is Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. This is the military enlisted examination that all branches use. Time was that all the branches had their own test and there was a test that was common to all branches. The common test was AFQT---Armed Forces Qualification Test. ASVAB contains an AFQT score and that score will be the same and mean the same to all branches. The ASVAB has about a dozen areas and 3 of the areas are used to make up the AFQT portion. Those 3 area are Arithmetic reasoning, word knowledge, and space perception. Space perception being a test where a shape is shown flat with dotted lines and you determine what shape it will be when folded on the dotted lines. Some people have a knack for this and it's simple---it blows my mind and is the hardest part of the test. Taking the results of those 3 areas an AFQT score is derived. This score means same to all branches. It determines your mental catagory. 30 and below is mental catagory 4 and that renders you ineligible for the Air Force. Other branches do accept cat 4's as they have needs for that catagory. Score of 31-64 is the average mental catagory (catagory 3.) 65-91 is above average catagory 2. 92 throughg 99(max is 99) is the exceptional catagory--cat 1. Even though all branches are using the same test, scores other than AFQT will be interpretted differently. The Air Force will have MAGE --Mechanics, Administrative, General and Electronics. You can usually tell by the scores whether it was a male or female. Typically males have lower general and adinistrative and higher electronics and mechanics and the reverse for females. Back in early 70's high schools got tired of all the different branches wanting to give their test in schools and requests were made for them to get together and have one test. Dept of Defense (DoD)agreed and ASVAB was developed with each branch having a responsibility. Don't remember all, but ARMY was responsible for scheduling testing at all the schools. Air Force computers did the scoring. By 1973 the Air Force and the Marine Corp had decided the ASVAB was good enough to be their only test, but other branches still used their test. All branches also had their own testers. Somewhere in mid 70's Dept of Defense ordered that all branches would use ASVAB. Shortly thereafter, the branches did not have their own testers and for the most part, testing was turned over to part time civil servants. One night a week the test was given in my recruiting zone and applicants for all branches tested together. Applicants that had tested in high school could use that score for a couple years. Most would want to retest as they were "goofing off" when they took it in school. This test being a vocational test, really didnt give a college degree holding person an advantage--most scored average. The guy that took his car apart in the back yard seemed to do better than the guy that studied Shakespear.

Old Ironsights
05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
All I remember about the ASVAB was that when I showed it to my Recruiter he was a bit puzzled.

I pretty much maxed out every area of the test except one... where I got EVERY question wrong.

So they told me I could do anything I wanted except be a mechanic... and that I would likely be courtmartialed if I ever picked up a spanner. :lol:

I'm still like that BTW. Explosives & Electronics, Good. Gears, Bad.

txpete
05-11-2009, 03:51 PM
if you go army take a hard look at aircraft armament.IMHO the best MOS in avn.schools as you are trained in avoinics,electrical and weapons systems.when you get out no problem finding a job as these skills are needed everywhere.after I retired I went to work for a defence contractor doing the same job and the pay is excellent.

pete

MT Gianni
05-11-2009, 09:58 PM
Great info. I had to take the space perception test as part of a job ap. 25 + years ago. I was working sheet metal previously and ended up having to retest 3 times the last with a witness. They could not believe someone would score 98% or better.

Ivantherussian03
05-13-2009, 12:32 AM
I will give my two cents on the topic.

I served in the 78th Combat Engineer Bt, between 1986 and 1989. At the time you might think the duty is just ****. I had officers get my apc stuck in knee deep and leave me to get it out. I marched 30 miles a day, several times, with ruck, and that is some serious pain. My family is a middle class family and I got an education on the dark side of life. I was naive. I was surrounded by druggies, substance abuser,s and some shady guys during my service time. They will offer you booze and drugs, and other corruptions that are availible. Stay away from these temptations. Focus on learning a trade better yet find a occupation and career in the service. The learning opportunities in the military are immense. I learned German, taking classes, and running around. A friend of mine has a daughter in the Coast Guard, and that sounds nice. Look into medical careers, wrenching on diseases, if you go into a combat position take seriously, get in shape and keep training, and go balls out or maybe try to figure out how get embassy duties.

The travel opportunities are incredible, but they come with some dangers, so be aware. I traveled Europe most alone because those guys I served with were afraid to travel. I feel fortunate to this day about my travels in Germany.

I would stay away from any combat mos. The repeated deployments are taking a toll those men. Suicides are up, and mental illness on the rise; I would not go there.Surviving that is mostly about training, but just as much luck. There is always a fair amount danger you will be hurt by a soldier in your unit. People get sleep deprived and make bad choices. I watched a squad blow them selves up at the demo range one day. :roll: I also remember an officer braggin how he was in command and how he claimed to have D average in school; he just laughed :roll:

I wish you well what ever you decide. You need to deciede what your goals are then make it happen.The military can be a great place, but it can be a waste time too.

Safeshot
05-13-2009, 01:37 AM
From your purely personal point of view - ask yourself which branch of service has the best food, the best Enlisted Living Quarters, the best EM Clubs, the best NCO Clubs, the best Officers Clubs, the best Officers Quarters, the best Gun Clubs and the highest "Survival Rate". Then ask your self if you want to be an Enlisted Man or an Officer. Do not believe ANYTHING you are told by a recruiter - GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. SOME recruiters have been known to "paint a rosy picture", it only takes one - the one talking to you - to lead you to a decision you may regret.
Visit at least two bases of each branch of service. Look around and see "what goes on". Talk (personally) to some Enlisted Men and some Officers that are CURRENTLY in each branch of the service.
Investigate going to college and getting a ROTC Scholarship and become an Officer upon graduation with a guaranteed job (military assignment) for a given number of years. Some high school guidance personnel can be helpful. (Some are "anti - military"). You may want to check with the ROTC Departments at a few (or many) Colleges. Different colleges have ROTC Programs for different branches of services.
Spend some time and research your position and prepare for your decision as if your future and your life depends on it - because - IT DOES!
May you make all the best decisions and choices for your future.

Echo
05-13-2009, 01:53 AM
Speaking of the AFQT - when I enlisted in 1954, the Korean War was still in the news, if not actually hot, and the Cold War had begun. The Services needed recruits. As I remember, after taking the AFQT, if you scored 20 or less, you weren't qualified for military service. 100 question test. Four-choice multiple choice. Random guessing should achieve a score around 25...

Actually, a score of <20 was VERY unlikely. I '54, they wanted warm bodies...

Hicountry
06-07-2009, 08:00 AM
I'm a recently retired Navy Chief and after 22years I would do it again...Hell if they called me back I'd leave now. I have served on ships, In country in Samolia and Afghanistan. Four combat zones a total of 11 times. Yes it can be dagerous, but so is life. I've worked with Marines and love being around them. We used to tease the Army, but that ended about18 years ago...those boys earn there keep. I would only recommend the Air Force if you are lazy and whinney!! Two deployments with them and they are the only vets I don't consider brothers!! Coasties are good too.

It sounds to me like you need to be a Navy or Marine Airframer. You would work on Airframes in the Squadron or rework/build parts at thr Fleet Repair Centers. Make sure the recruiter gets you in as an E-3 and make sure it is in BLACK AND WHITE and verify everything at the MEPS center. Most recruiters are hard working and honest...MOST! Good luck

Semper Fortis/Semper Fi

PS Safeshot has some great ideas!!

NSP64
06-07-2009, 09:44 AM
I was in the Field Artillary in the Army, A Pneudraulics (aviation Pneumatic-Hydraulic) specialist in the Air Guard, and a Med Tech in the Air Reserve. Go into something you would like to do that is employable on the outside. That way if you make a career out of it fine, if you don't you have something to fall back on. I learned it the hard way( not many civilian jobs for Atomic Artillary, But it was fun.)