Source of tin for lead alloy

[DrTrott]

Hello, Just wanted to find out what other casters are using as a source of tin. I am familiar with plumbers soldier but its a bid spendy. I have some tin-oxide polishing compound. Could that be used. Thanks.

[NVcurmudgeon]

DrTrott, I use lead free-solder to increase the flowability of wheelweights. It's a convenient source, and if you can get the WW free, the cost of the solder is not a big deal. I add 140 gr. with each one lb. ingot for 2% tin. Lead-free solder is 95% tin, with most of the rest being copper, with traces of other metals. Don't know about the tin oxide polishing compound, I dozed through chemistry!.

[Dale53]

Tin is available from various places that advertise in the gun magazines for from $6.00-$8.00 per lb. If you live in or near a large city, check out the local refinery. My last batch I bought direct from the refinery and saved a good bit of change. I did have to take 25 lb minimum, tho'.

Solder of various types is available from body shop suppliers. Check around (let your fingers do the walking) your area and see what is available.

Dale53

[Linstrum]

Tin oxide can be reduced with some source of carbon, the alchemist's favorite, as well as the modern metalurgist's until just lately, was plain ordinary charcoal. If you are tempted to do some backyard metalurgy, barbecue brickettes won't work since they are mostly sand with Portland cement added to stick the little bit of charcoal in them together, but the mesquite charcoal that still looks like tree limbs works great. The problem with smelting the tin out of tin oxide is the temperature has to be extremely hot, you can't do it over the kitchen stove. Bright red heat will do it, but in order to generate that temperature you will need a setup much like a blacksmith's forge. I used a high powered hair drier blower as the air source and burned charcoal as the fuel. The mixture of tin oxide, powdered charcoal, and fuel charcoal has to be all mixed together, ignited, and then the air blown THROUGH the mixture. I mixed the tin oxide with powdered charcoal and a bit of sugar to stick it together, dampened the mixture a bit, and rolled it into marble-size balls. As the tin is reduced by the carbon and carbon monoxide at bright red heat it forms tiny metallic droplets that collect in the bottom of the furnace. After the charge is depleted the tin is collected from the ash and melted into a lump with a propane torch. If you don't have any better source of tin you can do it this way, but gathering the ingredients, stacking some bricks into a furnace, mixing the tin oxide with charcoal powder and making it into balls, etc., takes a lot of time.

[shooter575]

I have the wife look for solder at garrage sales.She has picked up lb rolls for a dime before.If you have a auto radiator repair shop around they are a good supply.

[boogerred]

my little hamlet doesnt have many choices.i have to use 50/50 solder in 1# rolls.according to my miscalculated mathematics,3 feet of wire in 10# of WWs will give me about 1 1/2% tin.the only other stuff available is a 60/40 mix with an acid or rosin core.im not entirely sure about my alloy but it does make good bullets,air cooled or water dropped.i seem to make better looking bullets,with less temp problems,and more consistent weights than when using straight WWs.i dont have a hardness tester so i have no idea what the hardness is.

[Blacktail 8541]

If you want pure tin ingots check out Hallmark metal suppliers, they sell it for 4.60 a pound last time I checked, Plus shipping.

[Lloyd Smale]

check with your local radiator shop they will usually give away 60/40 solder that they boiled out of old radiators. It takes a little work to smelt it but its no worse then doing wheel weights.

[David R]

Linstrum,

Where do you get tin oxide?

David

I have seen silicone smelted in a huge 3 story open hearth furnace. They mixed wood chips, silicone ore and some thing else (coal?). The pure silicone ended up in the bottom of the furnace. They had a set up to open the furnace door (in the bottom) with a 12 guage shot gun shell because it wes welded shut every time. Truly amazing to see.

David

[Linstrum]

Hey there, David R, how ya doin'?

The reason why I mentioned the smelting process is because DrTrott was asking if it were somehow possible to use some tin oxide he already has for a source of tin metal in making his boolits.

I suppose you could look up on the Internet and get tin oxide in bulk form from lapidary-gemology supply companies and lens grinding supply companies, it is used as a polishing compound for a lot of materials, including semi-precious gems and glass. It is also called “polishing tin”, “tin ash”, and “stannic oxide”. Tin oxide is 78.75% tin metal and 21.25% oxygen, so don’t pay more than about 78.75¢ on the dollar compared to tin metal, and if your time is pretty valuable I would not even pay 50¢ on the pound compared to tin metal, and if your time is real valuable I would just get tin metal and skip the whole smelting process.

Tin smelting is probably the second oldest metal smelting process in history, copper being first. It of course goes back to the Bronze Age that is named for the discovery that when the extremely heavy (specific gravity 6.98, nearly the same weight as steel!) natural tin oxide ore called cassiterite was mixed with the fabulously beautiful blue, green, and metallic rainbow-colored copper ores called azurite, malachite, and bornite, that the useful metal called bronze was the result. One of the attractive things about bronze that made it important back then was that it was gold-colored without containing any gold. Not long after the year 1249 A.D. the Western Europeans discovered that tin-copper bronze could be easily cast and machined into long slender gun barrels and was sufficiently strong to handle the serpentine black gunpowder that was the first reasonably powerful propellant invented. The "Brown Bess" that the British troops were armed with in The Revolutionary War were bronze-barreled muskets.

[charlie45]

According to there web site lead free 95, 5 @ 8.69 per lb., pick it up at the store and no shipping. Hopefully theres a store near you!

[nighthunter]

If you can find pewter at yard sales or such it is a good source of tin. They used to make a lot of things from pewter and usually isn't real hard to find.
Nighthunter

[floodgate]

Linstrum:

Great info on tin and bronze metallurgy and history. But I've got to take issue with your statement about the "Brown Bess"; so far as I know, these always used iron for the barrels - my wife's (another story!) 1800-ish "India Pattern" certainly does. I doubt if bronze would have been strong enough in those 46" - 42" - 39" barrels in wall thicknesses small enough for a reasonable overall weight (ca. 10#). Bronze barrels and mountings were preferred for some pistols and short-barrelled "blunderbusses", especially for naval use or where corrosion was a problem, or when they had to be kept loaded for long periods with minimum care. And, of course, the "bronze vs. iron" controversy for cannon barrelsa lasted throughout the muzzle-loading era.

floodgate

[mooman76]

You can buy lynotype on ebay usually for $1 a lb or less and some people have free shipping when you buy like 50#. It has tin in it and antimony also to help harden lead. You can also add 1/4 cup of chilled Magnum shot to 10 lb. of lead to harden it some. It has antimony in it!

[Randy in Arizona]

If you want pure tin ingots check out Hallmark metal suppliers, they sell it for 4.60 a pound last time I checked, Plus shipping.

I just this morning got a quote from them of $5.90 per pound plus $10 cutting charge plus shipping & insurance. For a 65 pound lot in a USPS Flat rate box it worked out to about $6.27 a pound delivered.

The original quote was:

50 pounds of tin is available @ $5.90 per pound. ($295)
The shipping and insurance for 50 pounds is $45.82.

That works out to $6.81 per pound.

If we could work up an order for a half ton lot or so, the price ought to be a bunch better.

Anyone want to do a group buy on tin?

:lovebooli :castmine:

[Linstrum]

Hi, Floodgate, boy it has been a long time since we talked to each other.

The Brown Bess information I got was from one of Col. George C. Nonte's books on black powder shooting written back in the early 1960s. That is the only reference I have ever read on that musket since I am not especially interested in them, and from a number of other errors I have run across in Nonte's books, I don't doubt that what he had to say about the Brown Bess was in error just as well! Now I know what they are really made from. Thanks!

[kywoodwrkr]

I recently bought some roll solder from a seller on e-Bay.
Seems it was about $4 a lb delivered.
I listed their contact information(link) before in another similar discussion.
I just don't have it handy right now.
They were a regular seller on e-Bay however.
FWIW
DaveP

[reloaderman]

Save the tin foil wrappers from your champagne bottles! HIC!, they are almost pure tin, HIC!
and if you can accumulate about a pound, HIC!, you'll be a happy caster! [smilie=p: :drinks:

[kywoodwrkr]

http://cgi.ebay.com/KESTER-BAR-SOLDER-25-POUND-LOT-60-40-EBAR-NEW_W0QQitemZ7593925078QQcategoryZ109555QQtcZphoto QQcmdZViewItem
Item number 7593925078
25 pounds for $87.50 + $9.99 shipping.
$3.89 lb delivered.
FWIW
DaveP

[Blacktail 8541]

kywoodwrkr, if you are patient you can get it cheaper. I've bought 25 lbs for as little as 65.00 delivered. i was a little to careful on one auction and let it get away from me. it was 95/5bar solder with a buy it now price of 98.00 for 42lbs. It ended going for 101.00 with just 2 bids.

[kywoodwrkr]

Blacktail,
I'm not in the market myself, I just keep looking.
I have a 30 gallon drum of WWs that I've had since the mid 80's.
I keep getting buckets full whenever I get into my tire store so that supply keeps me from going into the 'reserve'.
Have linotype and pure tin as well as some of the 95/5 solder in rolls for blending.
What I really need to do is buy some time!
Was supposed to be phased out(severed with severance $) last fall.
Then it was rescheduled for this fall.
Now it is ??
Can't complain, though as a good check keeps coming in.
Thanks for the heads up however.
Others need the information as well.
Thanks.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[j4570]

I have a lot of acid core solder (probably 8-10 1lb spools) which is old and dirty a friend gave me. Anybody smelted this, I imagine the acid core is gonna cause some problems? I hadn't even thought to use it until the supply issue came up.