Loading for accuracy - need advice

[webby4x4]

OK folks - I'm new to reloading (only about 4 months under my belt). I have, however, cast and reloaded about 4-5,000 rounds now so I think I've got some of the fundamentals down.

I'm getting ready to go out to the shop and reload some .45 ACP rounds, and I'm thinking about loading up 50 "accurate" rounds. I'd like to get some advice as what are the best ways to load up very accurate rounds.

Here's what I have:
- About 3,000 tumbled/cleaned .45ACP cases that are already primed (with new primers)
- Bullseye gun powder
- About 200 cast 200 grain SWC boolits

Since my brass has already been primed, I'm guessing that water weighing is out of the question. :)

My assumptions so far are:
1) Weigh every case and find 50 that weigh the same +/- 1 grain?
2) Weigh every boolit and find 50 that weigh the same +/- .5 grains?
3) Ensure that each powder charge is the same (e.g. 4.6 grains)?

Any other thoughts or tips on making the most accurate rounds?


Thanks,
Rick

[fredj338]

WHile BE is popular, I think there are more accurate powders now than the 100yr old BE. I like WST, but that is me.
IME, weighing pistol brass yields little accuracy benefit. The best I would do for ultimate accuracy rounds is use brass all from the same manuf. & all fired the same number of times. Weighing bullets is much the same. With lead bullets though, I would weigh them & look for any really big weight swings that would show an internal casting void, +/- 4gr would be fine.
Make sure you bell the brass, nothing screws w/ lead bullet accuracy like shaving a chunk off the bullet base edge. A good uniform taper crimp also helps w/ uniform neck tension.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd sort the cases by head stamp instead of weighing them. Load them over 4.5, 5 and 5.5 gr of Bullseye and test them. Actually all 3 of those loads shoot extremely well in just about every M1911 and M1917 i have shot them in for the last 40 years. What i use is whether I want a light load, a heavy target load or a load that makes IPSC "major" in that order.

Lots of newer powders but I've not found any more accurate or better than Bullseye for it's application range.

Larry Gibson

[Dean D.]

One key to accuracy is weighing each charge on a scale so they are exactly the same. Powder measures normally will drop inconsistent charge weights. I set my measure a couple tenths under my desired charge and then trickle the final weight.

[ChuckS1]

Okay, what distance are you shooting? Based on your components (which I use as well for NRA bullseye) my recommendation is 3.6 to 4.2 grains of Bullseye. Exact weight will depend on your pistol. I'd also suggest changing your recoil spring from the 16 lb standard to something lighter that will function with the lighter load. I use a 12lb spring in mine and the pistol ejects the brass about a foot to my right. Don't worry about sorting brass unless you're shooting at the long line (50 yards); not going to make a difference at 25 yards or less. I would suggest your check the bullet bases because here's where accuracy lies. A base that's not perfect will allow gas to escape at the weak spot, causing the bullet not to fly straight. Any defects here will definitely have an impact at 50 yards. Personally, I weight each bullet and charge for my 50 yard loads, as well as use the same brass. At 25 yards, that's not critical and I often used mixed brass and use my Dillon SDB to load.

Bottom line though, and nobody likes to hear this, is how well you've mastered marksmanship basics, such as trigger control, sight alignment and your wobble. Of course this is assuming you're shooting offhand. But even still, shooting from a supported rest, you still have the basics of trigger control and knowing exactly when the shot will break. Forget that" it should surprise you" line; you should know exactly when the shot will break so you have your front sight in focus and the sights aligned.

[lv2tinker]

Check out this link....

http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2008/03/read-this-disclaimer-before-proceeding.html

[webby4x4]

Okay, what distance are you shooting? Based on your components (which I use as well for NRA bullseye) my recommendation is 3.6 to 4.2 grains of Bullseye. Exact weight will depend on your pistol. I'd also suggest changing your recoil spring from the 16 lb standard to something lighter that will function with the lighter load. I use a 12lb spring in mine and the pistol ejects the brass about a foot to my right. Don't worry about sorting brass unless you're shooting at the long line (50 yards); not going to make a difference at 25 yards or less. I would suggest your check the bullet bases because here's where accuracy lies. A base that's not perfect will allow gas to escape at the weak spot, causing the bullet not to fly straight. Any defects here will definitely have an impact at 50 yards. Personally, I weight each bullet and charge for my 50 yard loads, as well as use the same brass. At 25 yards, that's not critical and I often used mixed brass and use my Dillon SDB to load.

Excellent questions..
Distance shooting: 15-25 yards (25 yards max)
Powder: I've loaded up 50 rounds of each, of the following: 3.5, 3.8, 4.0, and 4.3 thus far.
Pistol: M1911, slight mods made to the ramp, target sights.
Bullet Bases: Great tip! I went through and chucked those that had rounded / beveled bases (and those that didn't fill all the way) into my "re-melt" pile.



Bottom line though, and nobody likes to hear this, is how well you've mastered marksmanship basics, such as trigger control, sight alignment and your wobble. Of course this is assuming you're shooting offhand. But even still, shooting from a supported rest, you still have the basics of trigger control and knowing exactly when the shot will break. Forget that" it should surprise you" line; you should know exactly when the shot will break so you have your front sight in focus and the sights aligned.

Excellent points indeed - I couldn't agree more. I'm a pretty good shot and am pretty happy with my shooting skills thusfar (although, they can always get better). But, since I'm new to reloading and have focused the last 4 months on the "basics" of reloading, I wanted to see what improvements I could make.

I plan on bench shooting the various powder charges of reloads I've made so far to see which ones do the best, then that will become one of my pet loads.

Thanks folks - all great tips!

Rick

[webby4x4]

Check out this link....

http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2008/03/read-this-disclaimer-before-proceeding.html


This is a great article! Thanks for sharing!

Rick

[thebigmac]

Yes Tinker, A swell article. After BE shooting for over 40 yrs. I learned some new things. Thanks a lot for the link..... Mac

[Bret4207]

You've been given some good advice. The only thing I'd add is that there have been several tests done with benchrest rifles and trickled/weighed charges have been found no better than charges dropped from a good, reliable measure. BE meters very well and as long as you're consistent with your measure you should have no problems there.

Flat bases and complete fill out are more important than weighing boolits too. Goes against common sense in a way, but it seems to work.

[Calamity Jake]

You've been given about the best advice there ever was!!

And I will add one more thing------- If your gun isn't accurate and your shooting style not up to the task then all the above is for naut.

[webby4x4]

You've been given some good advice. The only thing I'd add is that there have been several tests done with benchrest rifles and trickled/weighed charges have been found no better than charges dropped from a good, reliable measure. BE meters very well and as long as you're consistent with your measure you should have no problems there.

I've read the same thing in ~4 books. I use a Lyman 55 powder measure and it consistently produces very accurate drops. Regardless, I drop every 10th charge into my beam-scale pan and check it. While I haven't loaded millions of rounds like you guys - for the ~5,000 or so that I have loaded, I'm please to report that I've not had to adjust my powder charge once it's set. It's always been within .1 grains or so.

When I'm setting my powder charge, I'll typically run through 10 or so drops into the beam-scale pan until I'm confident the weight is right where I want it, then I'll double-check the first 5 or so that I drop before I start the "production run". I hope that's a good pracice...


Flat bases and complete fill out are more important than weighing boolits too. Goes against common sense in a way, but it seems to work.

This I'm learning more and more! :)

I loaded up 50 "match" rounds yesterday and purposely added another 5 to it, that had poor fill-out and untrue bases. I placed a bit of red nail polish on the outter edge of the primer pocket so that I could identify those. I then plan on bench-shooting at 25 yards and seeing how bad those "flyers" are. It should be interesting to see...

Thanks guys - I love this forum... people here are super knowledgable, and super patient wiht us new guys. ;)


Rick

[Uptick]

This is a great article! Thanks for sharing!

Rick

Actually, it's a two part blog post. Here's the other half:

http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2009/03/reloading-post-inspection-final.html

[lv2tinker]

Actually, it's a two part blog post. Here's the other half:

http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2009/03/reloading-post-inspection-final.html

Yep...I was going to include this blog also but didn't want to "overwhelm" him with too much info. :-) Besides, everyone here was giving some "great" information. I even learned a few things.

Cheers....

[MtGun44]

I'm with Bret. A good measure will throw BE accurately enough that you will not see
any difference in group with weighed charges. Run in the 3.5 gr range plus or minus,
BE or Titegroup are excellent.

The biggest two things I have seen for .45 ACP is good brass - newish and ALL THE SAME
HEADSTAMP, and then an accurate boolit design. My personal most accurate ones are
1st place - Lyman 452460, second place RCBS 200 SWC, the one that looks like the
H&G 68 (maybe "45 201 SWC") and then third place - a real H&G 68 200 SWC. All are
cast by yours truly, not commercial "too hard cast". Use groove diam +.001" or more.

Consistent crimp is important, too. I prefer to TC in a separate die.

Bill

[Leftoverdj]

Webby, you have a case of beginner's overboard. That's OK, the rest of us went through it, too. There rapidly comes a point, especially with pistols, that no reloading refinements can overcome the limits of our equipment and shooting skills. Even if we could load the mythical perfect ammo, it would not shoot any better than we and our pistols can.

For that matter, a good powder measure can be more consistent than most scales. Most scales won't even register less than a tenth of a grain, and it would not matter if they did.

If you want better accuracy, use cases from the same lot, a known accurate bullet, an established powder charge, and shoot, shoot, shoot.

[fourarmed]

Another thing to remember about ammo for offhand pistol shooting.

Group size = sq. root((hold)^2 + (ammo)^2)

In other words, if you can hold well enough to shoot a 6" group with 3-inch ammo , switching to ammo capable of one hole will only shrink your group size to 5.2".

[webby4x4]

I'm with Bret. A good measure will throw BE accurately enough that you will not see any difference in group with weighed charges. Run in the 3.5 gr range plus or minus, BE or Titegroup are excellent.

The biggest two things I have seen for .45 ACP is good brass - newish and ALL THE SAME HEADSTAMP, and then an accurate boolit design. My personal most accurate ones are 1st place - Lyman 452460, second place RCBS 200 SWC, the one that looks like the H&G 68 (maybe "45 201 SWC") and then third place - a real H&G 68 200 SWC. All are cast by yours truly, not commercial "too hard cast". Use groove diam +.001" or more.

Consistent crimp is important, too. I prefer to TC in a separate die.

Bill

Thanks Bill. All I have for a casting mold is the Lyman 452460, but I do plan on buying the Lee 6 cavity (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=336035) at some point too, for more of my general plinking.

I spent an afternoon speerating all of my .45 brass into headstamp categories. They're likely not all of the same lot, as some of it was given to me, some of which I've shot, and others I've nabbed from the range. I do have 3-4,000 rounds of remington and CCI .45 rounds that I bought late last year, so eventually those will become part of my reloading groups too.

My crimp is also a taper crimp too, but it's part of a 3-die set. At some point, I'll probably break down and buy a 4-die set, but I have to watch my spending habits. This is a VERY addictive hobby to say the least. :)

Thanks again,
Rick

[webby4x4]

Yep...I was going to include this blog also but didn't want to "overwhelm" him with too much info. :-) Besides, everyone here was giving some "great" information. I even learned a few things.

Cheers....


I spent about 5 hours going through his whole site. :) He has a lot of great information on there. I'm starting to amass all of this information and I'm putting it into a notebook for now.

I've loaded about 1,500 rounds of various headstamps and BE powder charges ranging from 3.5 gr to 4.3 grains so far. About 1,000 of these rounds are my plinking rounds with just 3.5 gr of BE though.

Now... my biggest problem is getting a lond afternoon to head out to the range and destroy all that I've worked so hard to build. It WILL be fun though!!! :)