Removing lead from barrel - how to

[webby4x4]

Hi folks - Newbie question here...

I've cast and loaded a few thousand rounds now for my .45 and 9 mm. Later this week, I plan to go to the range and have some fun.

Aside from regular gun cleaning, is there a special way to deal with barrel leading? Is there a solvent I should use to clean it?

Thanks,
Rick

[Ben]

webby4x4 :

At one time ( 20 yrs. ago ) , I used a Lewis Lead Remover to removed leading from pistol barrels.

Now I use Copper Chore Boy cleaning pads ( about $2.00 at Wallyworld ) . I take a few strands of this stuff and wrap it several times around a worn pistol cleaning brush until it is a good snug fit in your bore. You make 4 or 5 passes through your pistol barrel with this and there is no leading. Your bore will be sparkling clean and the soft copper ( but still harder than the PB ) will not harm your barrel steel.

You can follow this treatment with some Hoppes and then a light coat of oil .

When you've given this treatment to your pistol, you should be good to go.

Ben

[fredj338]

I second the CHoreBoy, work so easily it's not an issue cleaning up after shooting lead bullets. A drop or two of Kroil oil on the brush just makes things go faster. No chance of harming the bbl. as the copper wool is quite soft.

[RayinNH]

Ben mentioned the Lewis Lead Remover. Hoppe's makes a similar thing. In essence it is a round brass patch that fits over a slightly expandable rubber plug. As it is pulled through the bore it removes the lead from the barrel. They are caliber specific and work very well...Ray

[heebs]

Webby4x4
What I have used for years is White vinegar and hydrogen peroxide mixed 50/50. A vase works great as a holder for your barrel. Totally immerse the barrel and watch it bubble. After about 20 minutes, run a patch through and you are done. You will end up with a sludge on the patch. I usually use a degreaser and then oil as you normally do. No rough stuff needed. Just be cautious and don't get the stuff on blueing. I had a compensator with poor bluing on it and now it is a wonderful case hardened look to it.

[dwtim]

The best way is to discover a load that does not accumulate lead fouling. 8-)

Heavy fouling? Lewis lead remover or Chore Boy. I have the Hoppe's one. As long as I can get brass patches, I'm good. This applies only to severe fouling. Other than that, a nice, new brush with sharp bristles does the trick.

I've tried various chemicals, both commercial and the one mentioned above. The commercial ones stink (literally) and take maybe 2 layers of atoms off per pass. The acetic acid / hydrogen peroxide takes off more, but it also removes finishes and leaves white metal exposed. (Oh, it works good...reeeeeeeal good.)

[brianintheup]

I have found that a good bullet lube will help alot with eliminating leading. Try several different lubes and see which one works for you. If you ask which one is the best you will get multiple answers.

[ChuckS1]

Mercury is great if you can get it.

[Flash]

Mercury is great if you can get it.

Yep, I have a 5lb bottle of it. I got it from HVAC workers who remove old mercury switches.

[3006guns]

I'm glad someone else brought up mercury......fastest way to remove lead. You plug the muzzle with a tapered wood dowel and fill 'er up, then wait about ten minutes (longer on a badly fouled barrel). Pull the plug and empty the amalgam back into the original container. Clean. Fast. Politically incorrect, like most good things.

[kelbro]

Make sure that you use the Chore Boy brand. The 'off-brands' may just be copper washed steel and scratch your barrel up. Use a magnet to be sure.

[putteral]

Chore Boy is the way to go.
:castmine:

[Rockchucker]

Now I use Copper Chore Boy cleaning pads ( about $2.00 at Wallyworld ) .




Would this be in the cleanning dept?

[webby4x4]

Chore Boy it is, then! Thanks guys.

Rick

[Cloudpeak]

I use ChoreBoy, dry. And another great thing, it seems the more lead I shoot, the more polished the bore is and the easier it cleans up. My 45's take about 4 passes with the brush/C.B. and they're slick as a whistle.

Cloudpeak

[RoyRogers]

There used to be a flannel type cloth product sold for cleaning lead from barrels. One would cut patches to fit their bore from it and use on a jag. Don't recall if it was green or yellow colored cloth & I haven't seen it in years. It would remove the lead splatter from the front of a stainless steel revolver cylinder in short order as well as clean the lead from a barrel quickly. Seems I remember it was not recommended for external use on blued steel guns.

The choreboy strands work well too & cheaper than the cloth.

[RayinNH]

Roy Rogers, E-Z Brite Wonder Cloth made by Adco. Gets rid of lead deposits, carbon fouling and plastic buildup in shotgun barrels. I only use it on the front of stainless steel cylinders to remove the carbon discoloration. It works very well. I also says on the package not to rub it on blued or color casehardend finishes. I believe other companies make a similar product...Ray

[leadman]

I don't worry about leading anymore since I switched to LBT(Lead Bullet Technologies) Blue Soft lube. If I do get any leading, which is rare, a tight patch on a jag will remove it.
LBT Blue prevents the lead from adhering to the steel.
I pushed a 314299 in a 30-06 to over 2,600fps with just a hint of leading after 3 to 5 shots. One tight fitting patch and the accuracy was restored.

[geargnasher]

I'm jumping on the copper Chore Boy bandwagon, too! Learned that trick trolling threads here long before I joined. Have had many leading problems in the past (still do sometimes when working up new loads until I get the issues worked out) and it works great! :drinks:

btw, if you were to use the vinegar/peroxide trick to treat a non-blued automatic pistol barrel when removed from the gun, it wouldn't be a problem to just soak the whole barrel, would it?

Gear

[Bret4207]

Chore Boy works good, but I use 4/0 steel wool. That's something I have in the shop already and since it's something we use on a highly polished blued barrel I see little chance of it damaging the barrel. I picked the idea up from some of the Schuetezen guys and I don't think someone with a really good barrel is going to risk it, so I stand by 4/0 steel wool.

[Lloyd Smale]

two jacketed bullets every 50 rounds or so and it wont build up enough to be a problem

[Shuz]

I remove minor leading in my .44's by shooting 3 to 5 boolits that are gas checked and stoked by either 18g of 2400 or 17g of WC820. The rest of my revolver shooting is all with plain based boolits. Sure beats scrubing of ANY kind!

[felix]

Ray, try 3 grains of the fastest pistol powder on the bench, fill with grits very lightly compressed, any boolit, checked or not. Five of those shots will even take out the heaviest leading. If those won't work, slug the barrel from the muzzle with a tight boolit. ... felix

[Wilburt]

Another fan of chore boy! Works well and quick. Use it dry first... then hopps or oil.

[fredj338]

two jacketed bullets every 50 rounds or so and it wont build up enough to be a problem

This actually doesn't work that well. It will push out heavier deposits but plates over the top of lighter deposits. Plus, doing thi sin a high pressure round, like a 40, could significantly increase pressure.

[John Boy]

Warmed pure gum turpentine - not the distilled stuff. Bronze brush - sit for 10 minutes - tight patch. If really leaded - repeat process.

Works good also to remove caked powder foul in the grooves. When the patch squeaks going down the bore - your there

[JBL]

Outer's foul out is what I use on my high end target guns. My barrel has never seen a brush! You clean the barrel with a soft patch soaked in your favorite powder solvent then degrease it with Gun scrubber. Plug one end of the barrel and fill it with an electrolyte. You then place a stainless steel rode in the barrel and place a clip on the rode and the barrel. The lead (or copper) is electroplated off the inside of barrel. You can use a flashlight and actually see the lead flakes coming off the barrel and floating to the rode. In just about ten minutes all the lead is off and you have a clean barrel. Then dry with a clean patch and oil.
I also tried it on some old pitted barrels. You wouldn’t believe what came out of those!

[Cloudpeak]

No one's mentioned "Cream of Wheat" yet so I'll throw that out:smile:

I tried it on my 9mm CZ and it seemed to work pretty good. I think I used around 2 grains of W231 and topped it off with COW and a 105 gr SWC bullet but didn't write it down. I did get a small sliver of lead in the chamber which I think had something to do with the SWC bullet. Next time, I'd try a RN bullet but my bores are cleaning up so well now that I don't see a need for it right now.

Cloudpeak

[chasmo]

I just recently used the 50/50 solution 3% hydrogen peroxide and vinager and it works better than anything I have tried in the past 40 years.

[ColColt]

Ray, try 3 grains of the fastest pistol powder on the bench, fill with grits very lightly compressed, any boolit, checked or not.

Grits? Probably not found north of the Mason/Dixon but plentiful around these here parts...mostly for eatin'-not shootin'.

[SlamFire1]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
two jacketed bullets every 50 rounds or so and it wont build up enough to be a problem


This actually doesn't work that well. It will push out heavier deposits but plates over the top of lighter deposits. Plus, doing thi sin a high pressure round, like a 40, could significantly increase pressure.

I regularly shoot out leading from 357's and 44 Mag's with jacketed bullets. I am unaware of any pressure issues.

I don't shoot 40 S&W's but from what I have heard those cartridges are running hot. People blow sidewalls all the time.

I have not gaged my barrels to see if I am plating over deposits. I use a copper brush in all barrels before putting the pistols away and do not notice any issues.

I had some extremely soft factory 32 S&W bullets totally lead the barrel of my M31 S&W. I could not see rifling the inside of the tube was black. It just took enough jacketed bullets to remove all that lead.

[dverna]

Grits? Probably not found north of the Mason/Dixon but plentiful around these here parts...mostly for eatin'-not shootin'.

North of the line, the only reason to buy grits is for shootin'

Heck, our dogs won't eat it.

[Recluse]

Webby4x4
What I have used for years is White vinegar and hydrogen peroxide mixed 50/50.

Just be cautious and don't get the stuff on blueing. I had a compensator with poor bluing on it and now it is a wonderful case hardened look to it.

I've used that a few times on the barrels of guns I recently acquired that had suffered bad leading and fouling.

You've got to be careful, though. Pitting can and does happen if you leave the mixture in too long or if the bbl is not in good condition to begin with. But the mix WILL take out the lead.


I'm jumping on the copper Chore Boy bandwagon, too! Learned that trick trolling threads here long before I joined. Have had many leading problems in the past (still do sometimes when working up new loads until I get the issues worked out) and it works great! :drinks:

I keep a bag of copper Chore Boy scrubbers in the cleaning cabinet, and yep, I learned about them right here some years ago while in the hardcore lurker mode.

But I was gratified to see someone else use a technique that I learned at a S&W armorer's school many years ago--and that is four-aught, or 0000 steel wool.

Bret is a big proponent of it and I am too. In fact, that is what I use on the end of a power drill to clean my revolver cylinders because no matter what, I always get fouling at end of the chambers after enough rounds and have to scrub them out.

The 0000 steel wool and some cleaning oil do a fantastic job.


btw, if you were to use the vinegar/peroxide trick to treat a non-blued automatic pistol barrel when removed from the gun, it wouldn't be a problem to just soak the whole barrel, would it?

Gear

Gear, I wouldn't submerge an entire gun in that mixture. For one, you're going to have dissimilar metals in one liquid mixture, remember? All I know about galvanic corrosion is what I've learned on our boat and from other boaters, but I would think that metal is metal and dunking dissimilar metals in a strong acidic solution could have bad consequences.

The chemists and engineers here can correct me if I'm (probably) wrong.

Two, the mixture is caustic and it is not good for you and it WILL cause pitting on metal that is not in good condition. I have experienced that firsthand on some old guns I traded for and had to work like crazy to clean up.

Just seems like a big risk to take.

:coffee:

[Fredx10sen]

Lewis Lead remover works great for me. Also 1+ on the Chore Boy pads as well.

[Wally]

If one shoots specials in magnum revolvers (ie .38 Spl/.357 Mag & .44 Spl/.44 mag) you know how the cylinder chambers get gunked up. I struggled for years to clean them easily and yes I used the Chore Boy method...if was just not that effective.

I bought an "adapter" that I could screw in a bronze brush, chucked in a drill. Using a well used brush & wrapped it tight with 0000 steel wool and spun it in the cylinder chambers---in seconds they were cleaned of all the gunk --no damage to the cylinder as the very fine steel wool is just too thin/soft to abrade the steel. I found it best not to use any solvent when using this method.

[CPL Lou]

I use a little Kroil on a tight fitting patch with some JB Bore paste for light to moderate leading. Rub back and forth vigorously for a few minutes and 'a-la peanut butter sandwiches', a clean bore !
I have the Hoppes version of the Lewis Lead Remover for tougher stuff.

[milprileb]

In a forum that pours lead alloys to make bullets, it appears the methods of taking lead out of bores (for whatever reason that happens) is pretty shallow and uninspiring.

Scrubbing like mad does not seem to be any better than rubbing sticks to make fire.

Standard solvents don't take lead out.

Its really down to something wound around a brush (steel wool or bronze wool 0000 grade, Lewis lead remover, Frontier gun shop brand or Chore boy type stuff if all copper. Anything else electronic is hardly convenient or common use item.

What I find remarkable if not totally astonishing is the myth of shooting lead out with a FMJ bullet. It is intuitively obvious that you do shoot lead out while layering copper atop lead inside your barrel and now you have created a greater challenge to clean out.

Having said all of that, I mean to throw one big stone in hopes of killing off nonsense. That being this: don't shoot out lead, clean it out.

Lastly the vinegar and peroxide trick is problematic and should be returned to the North Korean Embassy where it belongs.

[Three44s]

Around here it's Copper Chore Boy and good 'ole Lewis and just about anything wet that's gun friendly.

Finnish with USP or JB bore paste and then treat with CorrosionX and dry patch it out.

After a few round trips with JB or USP and you can pretty much drop them.

The Lewis lead remover works best on forcing cones and the Chore boy works good on the "straight aways"!

Three 44s

[GunFun]

Can someone explain the rationale for the Cream of Wheat trick?

Additionally, I would appreciate a recipe for this for 9mm and .38 SPL using either 358-105 SWC or 356-124- TL. I generally use bullseye, but I do have some other shotgun powders which may be 'fast'. I plan to pick up some redDot or Promo, but they have been out of stock for a long time.

[ku4hx]

In a forum that pours lead alloys to make bullets, it appears the methods of taking lead out of bores (for whatever reason that happens) is pretty shallow and uninspiring.

Scrubbing like mad does not seem to be any better than rubbing sticks to make fire.

Standard solvents don't take lead out.

Its really down to something wound around a brush (steel wool or bronze wool 0000 grade, Lewis lead remover, Frontier gun shop brand or Chore boy type stuff if all copper. Anything else electronic is hardly convenient or common use item.

What I find remarkable if not totally astonishing is the myth of shooting lead out with a FMJ bullet. It is intuitively obvious that you do shoot lead out while layering copper atop lead inside your barrel and now you have created a greater challenge to clean out.

Having said all of that, I mean to throw one big stone in hopes of killing off nonsense. That being this: don't shoot out lead, clean it out.

Lastly the vinegar and peroxide trick is problematic and should be returned to the North Korean Embassy where it belongs.

I've always found a liberal application of Elbow Grease to work well. That and a little piece of my all copper kitchen scrub pad of choice. Both are cheap enough and have worked well for me for going on half a century.

Like lead boolits in Glock barrels, I never realized bore lead removal was such a monumental problem until I read all the internet lore.

[rogn]

Like CL mentioned, w/ moderate leading run a couple of patches wetw/ Kroil and let the gun soak for an hour. then run a tight fitting patch(flannel seems best) thru the bore and it'll remove 95% --- 100% of the leading. It seems to wet the steel and flow under the lead , floats it free. Chore
Boy on a used gun.

[finstr]

Tell me more about the mercury. Does it dissolve the lead? Do you have to scrub with a brush? How is it applied? Inquiring minds need to know! :)

[DougGuy]

Well, you can thank all the CRACKHEADS in this country for making chore boy nearly impossible to come by, seems that's what they stick in the crack pipe for a filter or whatever it does.

Be very careful and read the label closely to make sure you aren't getting copper plated STEEL scrubbing pads instead of solid copper mesh.

I found bronze wool at ACE hardware, it took me 7 stores one day to find solid copper equivalent of chore boy, never did find the real stuff, but you can ebay it and pay the shipping and still come out cheaper than the gas it took me to drive to those 7 stores...

Chore boy, wrapped over a plastic jag made for that caliber, works best for me, no solvent needed although it couldn't hurt.

[Bucking the Tiger]

Kano Kroil works really well for me. Get the barrel inside wet with it and let it sit a few minutes: it will cause the lead to fall out.

[afish4570]

Try Do my own pest control...co. as a source for the copper mesh, 20 ft. strip is 15.50 shipped. Should last a long time and solve your search for Chore Boy material...afish4570

[aspangler]

Try a brush wetted with ED'S RED (Google it. not hard to find.) Let stand for 5 min. then dry patches till they come out clean. Best is find a lube that keeps the fouling down to a min.

[Lloyd Smale]

been doing it in rifles and handguns for 30 years or more and ive never had one bit of pressure problem doing it. Trick is to do it every 50 or so rounds not wait till your bounds. I seldom clean barrels of guns that shoot cast. Never was one of those anal guys that insists every gun is cleaned right down to the steal after every time its used. Youll do more harm to a gun with those kinds of practices. Im not the only one that does this. Many very experienced handgunners do it and its not them that have problems with it. Its the beginner that like i said lets it go to far before he trys it. Another this is we are all handloaders. Nobody said you have to load that jacketed bullet up to 40000 psi. A mild load just hot enough to run your slide on that 40 will work just as well as ammo loaded to max pressures. I rarely load any semi auto handgun using cast up to max pressures anyway. Back off a hundred feet a second or even more and your cast bullet will kill just as well and it takes away the risks especially with guns with unsuported chambers.trick is to do it before the barrel is so full of lead you cant see the rifling. As to it not taking it all out, who cares. Most guns shoot well with a bit in them anyway and some even claim better after a few fouling rounds.
This actually doesn't work that well. It will push out heavier deposits but plates over the top of lighter deposits. Plus, doing thi sin a high pressure round, like a 40, could significantly increase pressure.

[finstr]

Well, you can thank all the CRACKHEADS in this country for making chore boy nearly impossible to come by, seems that's what they stick in the crack pipe for a filter or whatever it does.

Be very careful and read the label closely to make sure you aren't getting copper plated STEEL scrubbing pads instead of solid copper mesh.

I found bronze wool at ACE hardware, it took me 7 stores one day to find solid copper equivalent of chore boy, never did find the real stuff, but you can ebay it and pay the shipping and still come out cheaper than the gas it took me to drive to those 7 stores...

Chore boy, wrapped over a plastic jag made for that caliber, works best for me, no solvent needed although it couldn't hurt.
I think it may have more to do with the fact that copper prices have gone way up forcing the copper clad steel instead of solid copper. Like lead COWWs the copper chore boy is goin to become extinct. Jmo

[jonp]

Spray the barrel with balistol and let sit a few minutes. Wrap 0000 steel wool around a used brush and spray it with balistol, scrub and finish with patches. Seems to work well for me and a pkg of steel wool at Lowes is cheap and will last a long time.

[GunFun]

This series of tests was pretty informative. Ballistol came in the middle, but had almost no effect on lead. It doesn't do much to dissolve lead, but it could inhibit re-adhesion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYWQfbC5Og (Part 3 shows the results about 20 minutes in. Part 2 includes a conversation with the owner of Ballistol talking about what the product is supposed to do, and reasonable expectations)

This one is less scientific, but still interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ud2M1gGlU

I can say that 0000 Steel wool plus Hoppes No 9 (which was marginally more effective) is a labor intensive method, but will eventually work. It took me about 45 minutes of scrubbing with enough steel wool on my brush to make pushing the brush difficult. The pistol barrel actually got fairly warm from friction. On the upside, my bore shines now. My local wal-mart doesn't have chore boy. This may be the only option for some of us http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GVY126/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1RQOO67LVAPSA

[tengaugetx]

There used to be a flannel type cloth product sold for cleaning lead from barrels. One would cut patches to fit their bore from it and use on a jag. Don't recall if it was green or yellow colored cloth & I haven't seen it in years. It would remove the lead splatter from the front of a stainless steel revolver cylinder in short order as well as clean the lead from a barrel quickly. Seems I remember it was not recommended for external use on blued steel guns.

The choreboy strands work well too & cheaper than the cloth.

Klean Bore Lead Away cloth. They are yellow and work quite well. The package says it will remove blueing if rubbed hard. All the pistols I shoot regularly are stainless anyway. They also do a great job on the cylinder face of revolvers.
I can't find the chore boy at my local Walmarts. The only on I see there is the copper plated look alike.

[jonp]

This series of tests was pretty informative. Ballistol came in the middle, but had almost no effect on lead. It doesn't do much to dissolve lead, but it could inhibit re-adhesion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYWQfbC5Og (Part 3 shows the results about 20 minutes in. Part 2 includes a conversation with the owner of Ballistol talking about what the product is supposed to do, and reasonable expectations)

This one is less scientific, but still interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ud2M1gGlU

I can say that 0000 Steel wool plus Hoppes No 9 (which was marginally more effective) is a labor intensive method, but will eventually work. It took me about 45 minutes of scrubbing with enough steel wool on my brush to make pushing the brush difficult. The pistol barrel actually got fairly warm from friction. On the upside, my bore shines now. My local wal-mart doesn't have chore boy. This may be the only option for some of us http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GVY126/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1RQOO67LVAPSA

Thats interesting. I just know that it seems to work for me. Maybe if you start with a clean barrel it works better. I use 0000 wool on all kinds of stuff. If you have to scrub your bore for 45min to get it clean you might want to clean it more often

[GunFun]

I usually just clean it each time I return from the range. How much more often would you suggest?

And this is the first time I have gotten any leading at all. My normal recipe of .358" 50/50 PB/CLWW water dropped and 45/45/10 does the job. I just ran out of CLWW and have been experimenting with how little Lino spacers I can add to PB to aproximate the same alloy. 5 /1 should have done it unless my lino was already diluted.

[jonp]

I usually just clean it each time I return from the range. How much more often would you suggest?

And this is the first time I have gotten any leading at all. My normal recipe of .358" 50/50 PB/CLWW water dropped and 45/45/10 does the job. I just ran out of CLWW and have been experimenting with how little Lino spacers I can add to PB to aproximate the same alloy. 5 /1 should have done it unless my lino was already diluted.
Your lino may have been. The only gun I have ever had to scrub like yours was a milsurp mauser. A number of days with montana xtreme and jb bore paste cleaned it. Im intetested in what cause so much leading suddenly like that.

[detox]

Mild forcing cone leading can be removed using regular Hopp's solvent and oversized bronze bore brush.

[John L]

I have experienced some very rapid and heavy leading trying to find a light load that will push 135 grain LFN, BHN 15, bullets through my Marlin 336 30-30 and Savage 1899 Savage 300. Running without a chrono right now because my tripod is broken. But Bullseye, Unique, AA5744, BL-C-2, Trail Boss, 231 all create enough lead to weigh (=or> 2 grains from the cup after rinsing the brass bore brush in gasoline) in a single range session of less than 50 rounds. I am talking 5 gr BE or 231, 7 or 8 gr Unique, 8 gr Trail Boss, 15 to 20 gr 5744. And it does take hours, not minutes, to get it out. Barrels might have been dirty or had jackets through them at one time or another. But after several cleanings I do believe I am starting out with clean barrels. One Marlin is new and all of the barrels look clean and do not show blue patches after 30 minutes under Hoppes 9. So I don't know how it can be said that lead doesn't build up fast or that it won't if you start with a clean barrel. I have used all of the products mentioned, carefully following instructions and sometimes the recommendations on forums. Can somebody give me a hand on either the cleaning or the load that will reduce the cleaning effort because I am about to go back to j's?

[Ben]

John L

What is your lube that you're using ?

What diameter cast bullets are you shooting ?

Do you have a flare on the case mouth when you are seating the cast bullet ?

You say that you're shooting a 135 gr. bullet. Is this a plain base or a gas check bullet ?

Have you soaked your barrels overnight with Hoppes # 9 ? Sometimes 30 minutes won't tell you much about the copper in a barrel.

[GunFun]

Your lino may have been. The only gun I have ever had to scrub like yours was a milsurp mauser. A number of days with montana xtreme and jb bore paste cleaned it. Im intetested in what cause so much leading suddenly like that.

Two problems in my method with that batch. Normally I add ingots of aprox equal size. I know that doesn't accurately reflect weight due to alloy change, but it is fine as long as my alloy is harder than minimum. i.e. any tolerance is absorbed.

First problem: I didn't make my lino spacers into ingots first because it was so clean. so I estimated volume added by looking at changes in fill level to the pot. Not consistent enough, hard to trouble shoot.

2nd problem: If my estimations of volume were dead on, my alloy should have worked better but didn't. I'd gotten the recipe somewhere here, but now I ran the same thing into the excel lead alloy calculator someone made should have come to 11 BHN air cooled. The calculator doesn't project water dropped, but let's call it 13. My normal non-leading recipe calculates out to projected 10BHN as air cooled, and probable 11-12 BHN as water dropped from the mold. So I need to verify my Lino or better yet my final alloy. I also need to control my proportions more carefully.


Final comments:
These same weak bullets ran well with powder coat and no leading. Obviously there is some real promise to that system.

I will take the time to make ingots for all my ingredients, or mix my alloy completely before making any ingots. I will test some of my spacers with staedler method since a brinnel gauge is not in my immediate budget. I will sweeten as needed to get my desired alloy using the calculator. If I get a big batch of lead and a better way to smelt more efficiently, I will start with making a large batch of pistol ready alloy completely ready to go.

I have a large stock of copper chore boy in case of future mishaps, but I hope to never need it.

[John L]

Ben,
Taking your questions in order:

Lee liquid Alox bullet lubricant. Enough to give the bullets a golden glow. Looks like close to 0.001in thickness added.

0.309 bullets before lube.

Flared case mouth prior to loading powder.

Plain base from Badman Bullets, BHN 15

Have not soaked barrel overnight in Hoppes #9 but have cleaned three separate times since last use. Ran an ammonia soaked patch through immediately after running one through with Hoppes #9. Neither showed any blue after thirty minutes. However out here the patches were dry after thirty minutes. Barrel dripped solution before and after the patch exited the muzzle. I had tried this before and ran into the dry patch circumstance so I really soaked these patches using Tipton bore guide. Put the guns away once after last patch through with Hoppes and same with Ballistol, barrel down on blanket pad. Trying to get rid of all lead. Did try Chore Boy too. Still get five dry patches with good black (I believe lead) smudges, rifling edge shows cleanly.

[John L]

Ben,
Taking your questions in order:

Lee liquid Alox bullet lubricant. Enough to give the bullets a golden glow. Looks like close to 0.001in thickness added.

0.309 bullets before lube.

Flared case mouth prior to loading powder.

Plain base from Badman Bullets, BHN 15

Have not soaked barrel overnight in Hoppes #9 but have cleaned three separate times since last use. Ran an ammonia soaked patch through immediately after running one through with Hoppes #9. Neither showed any blue after thirty minutes. However out here the patches were dry after thirty minutes. Barrel dripped solution before and after the patch exited the muzzle. I had tried this before and ran into the dry patch circumstance so I really soaked these patches using Tipton bore guide. Put the guns away once after last patch through with Hoppes and same with Ballistol, barrel down on blanket pad. Trying to get rid of all lead. Did try Chore Boy too. Still get five dry patches with good black (I believe lead) smudges, rifling edge shows cleanly.

Have also used Kroil.

Going to mix some of Ed's Red and try that.

[Ben]

John L

WELCOME TO THE FORUM ! !

Thanks for your reply to the questions.

It is my opinion that the " hub " of your problems lies with the plain base bullets at .309". The bullet must fill the throat properly ( May take a .311 " dia. cast bullet to do that ). At .309", most likely hot gases are skirting around the base of the bullet causing the majority of your leading.

It sounds as if your barrel is clean enough to shoot cast bullets cleanly right now. You've just got to change things a bit in your loading sequence.

Do you own any molds and do you cast your own .30 cal. rifle bullets yet ?

Many of us on the forum shoot 100 rounds or more of our cast loads in .30 cal. rifles without a hint of leading.

Some of that black that you're seeing is graphite and carbon, it is extremity hard to ever get all the carbon out of a barrel, ( I don't even try ).

Some rifles will shoot with Lee Liquid Alox , some won't.

I'd like to see that barrel clean and you load something like the 311291 with a good lube ( Ben's Red comes to mind ) and a gas check , sized to .311".

I'm betting that you could fire 50 rounds of the 311291 load, then push a single clean white cotton patch through your barrel and it would look mirror bright.

Ben

[dudel]

Outer's foul out is what I use on my high end target guns.

+1 on the Foul Out. Works great.

[HABCAN]

Ben........your post #61..........exactly what I was going to say, but you beat me to it: +1, Sir.

For extreme leading in a .44 revolver, for instance, we just used to load a charge of seed tapioca and fire that........cleans a bore rather well!

[opos]

Copper (really copper) Chore Boy strands....I put them around a synthetic fiber bore brush and use a couple drops of Kroil...(I would put Kroil on my cereal if I thought it would help anything...love the stuff)...cleans any light leading right up (I seldom get leading)...then I hit it with Hoppe's or CLP to do the cleaning....works for me.

[S.B.]

I saw some new fangled bore cleaner in Rifle magazine supposed to be brushless? Some for lead and other for copper.
Steve

[John L]

Ben, Thanks for your interest.

I am not casting yet, got a bunch of lead though. Thought I might find out if lead would shoot before I got the molds and other equipment.

I was trying to avoid gas checks. Willing to shoot at modest velocities. Gas checks seem too much like jackets or half-jackets.

I slugged the bores on both rifles. The Marlin was slugged twice with the same readings: 0.3095 or 0.310 and 0.3005 or 0.310. The muzzle is tight, a 0.300 ball drops through but a 0.301 hangs up and requires light pressure to move through. That seems a bit deep for Micro-Groove rifling. The Savage gave me 0.308 and 0.300. Just slugged it again and got 0.308 and 0.301. Maybe I got some spring back on that last slug (that's a joke son). The front part of the bullet to be about 0.299 inch diameter with the forward driving band about 0.308. The rear portion back to the lube groove is about 0.309 and the rear driving band with lube shows to be 0.310. I had thought that might work at 1400 fps or slower.

Do not have an alternate lube. The Ben's Red I am familiar with is a cleaning fluid and with just the ATF and kerosene a good oil. Is the lube you refer to a commercial product or mix your own?

I'll see if anybody is peddling .311 bullets. What is the weight on the 311291 bullet? That is a .311 diameter bullet out of a proprietary 291 mold number isn't it?

I got started on the light lead bullets after reading an article on 30-30 varmint loads. Thought the light bullets made a good squirrel load at just less than 1500 fps. Got the ones on top of a limb by just shooting through it. It seems like it was by Paco Kelly. As I remember he put a gas check on it and pushed it out to 3100 fps and called it a good whitetail load.

[Ben]

John L

What are you taking your cast bullet diameter measurements with ?
________________________________
Your comment :

The Ben's Red I am familiar with is a cleaning fluid

I think you're making reference to Ed's Red.
A home made bore cleaner.

Ben's Red is a cast bullet lube made with the following recipe :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment
______________________________

What is the weight on the 311291 bullet?

About 170 - 175 grs.

[John L]

1 (one) inch Starrett micrometer and a 6 inch caliper for larger measurements.

I found that Montana Bullet Works carries the Lyman 311291 bullet in both linotype and heat treated alloy.

Thank you for the Ben's Red formula. I am not familiar with the Lucas High Temp grease. Will have to look around unless you are selling small quantities or know someone who is.

From what I have been seeing it appears that I should have started with the heavier bullet and worked my way up to the lighter stuff. Almost everyone has a load for the 170 gr bullets and most will provide one for the 150 gr bullets. Very few that I have found post anything about the 135 gr stuff. Would the linotype 170 gr bullet fit your recommendation for starters?

[Ben]

Here is a link to a group that I fired at 100 yds. with my own 311291's.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133711-311291-Cup-Point

Not a hint of leading in my rifles.

As to buying Ben's Red, someone on here may have some extra that they would sell you ? You may choose to post in " Want to Buy " that you'd like to purchase some Ben's Red.

The 311291is a great general purpose cast bullet in most .30 cal. rifles ( 30/30, 308 Win., 30/40 Krag, 30-06 , etc )

[hunter12]

For extreme leading in a .44 revolver, for instance, we just used to load a charge of seed tapioca and fire that........cleans a bore rather well!

How do you do this?

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I generally avoid leading by using the correct boolit diameter, appropriate for the velocity hardness, appropriate to the velocity boolit lube, quality hand loading and finally, if I've made a mistake, I can clean it up with my home made foul out.

Do a search for home made Outer's foul out. Works extremely well and is also great for cleaning the nasty out of old milsurps and making the bores look nice again if they're able.

[Flashkayak]

found 100% pure copper scrubbers by O ceder at bimart

[jcren]

It may be a regional thing, but around here you can find choreboy copper pads at all the seedy gas stations. The seedier the better. Find somewhere that you wouldn't take a leak in and the will have choreboy next to the charcoal.

[25ring]

Before you resort to using a chore boy pad try a tight patch soaked with turpentine. A fellow BPCR competitor showed me this trick years ago and it works great.The only thing that touches my BPCR rifles is turpentine and ED's red.

[BrianL]

I use ChoreBoy, dry. And another great thing, it seems the more lead I shoot, the more polished the bore is and the easier it cleans up. My 45's take about 4 passes with the brush/C.B. and they're slick as a whistle.

Cloudpeak

I had the same experience with a new Lone Wolf Glock barrel. I assumed it was because I was removing roughness

[edctexas]

I was amazed at the ability of Kroil to release the small flakes of lead that one sometimes gets. If you have a lot of leading, the copper chore boy or bronze woll on a brush will loosen the leading up, especially if you run a patch with Kroil thru the bore first. I am a recent convert to Ed's Red. It is an amazing solvent for powder residue, and shotgun wad residue. I use it in place of Hoppe's 9. Hoppe's 9 smells good but Ed's Red beats it in cleaning. The chemicals that use ammonia are for copper (j-words). These make the patches turn blue. Lead never makes the patch turn blue! More like black!

Ed C

[prickett]

Outer's foul out is what I use on my high end target guns. My barrel has never seen a brush! You clean the barrel with a soft patch soaked in your favorite powder solvent then degrease it with Gun scrubber. Plug one end of the barrel and fill it with an electrolyte. You then place a stainless steel rode in the barrel and place a clip on the rode and the barrel. The lead (or copper) is electroplated off the inside of barrel. You can use a flashlight and actually see the lead flakes coming off the barrel and floating to the rode. In just about ten minutes all the lead is off and you have a clean barrel. Then dry with a clean patch and oil.
I also tried it on some old pitted barrels. You wouldn’t believe what came out of those!

+1 for the Foul Out unit. They don't sell the solution for it anymore, but now I use this formula and get identical results: http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Copper

I've also tried Kroil (submerged the barrel in it for a week) and got NO useful results.

[Shuz]

Since this is a rather old thread, perhaps a lot of folks haven't bothered to go all the way to the beginning. I call your attention to my post #22 on Page 3. What could be an easier way to remove lead fouling than that?

[Dale in Louisiana]

A co-worker gifted me with about twenty pounds of mercury. I figure that's a lifetime supply if I develop a leading problem.

dale in louisiana

[Cadillo]

found 100% pure copper scrubbers by O ceder at bimart

I have and use the O Cedar pads, but when I can find the Chore Boy, I buy several. For some reason the Chore Boy pads cut the lead a lot faster than the O Cedar brand.

[flyingrhino]

Outers Foul Out II. You can't buy them any more but there are links to plans to build one in this thread somewhere. I've had mine for around 20 years. There are also links to purchase the chemicals to make the solution. The price is higher now but still can't be beat. I shot competition for years and cleaning lead out of the compensator on my 357 mag was impossible. The outers was the bomb! Also have issues with 9mm leading. I just let the Foul Out do the work. Every few thousand rounds in my 45's I run the Foul Out on them. Takes care of any lead buildup that may be lurking in the corners of the rifling that just doesn't come out easily with brushing.

[exile]

So, maybe a thread hijack, but, I shot my first powder-coated bullets the other day and got leading in the last inch of the barrel. Things I have done since:

1. Given the bullets another coat of powder-coating,

2. Bought an oven thermometer, ( surprisingly the oven temp is right on the money at .400 degrees.)

3. Bought a .357 sizer,

4. Tried to get the leading out with a bronze brush and copper strands from O'ceder scrub pads, no luck!

The pistol in question is a BHP copy (Arcus 98 DAC) which I love. It has a chrome-lined barrel, from which I have shot many boolits sized .356 (45/45/10 lubed) with no leading.

My questions are as follows:

a.) Can I use the hydrogen peroxide/white vinegar solution without damage to the chrome barrel?

b.) I have looked for Ballistol and Kroil at local stores without success (tried Break-Free and Hoppe's #9 without success)

c.) I have always used Lee dies, but am considering buying a set of Redding dies in the hope that the seating die would be more forgiving in not sizing down the boolit when seating it.

My question there is, the Redding A series die set seems awfully cheap on sale. Is the Redding sizing die carbide or steel?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

exile

[S.B.]

Exile, I have used Ed's Red for decades now. Read the enclose literature with Redding dies to determine if they're carbide or not. Have you tried a Lewis lead remover? I'm not aware of any seating dies that are suppose to size bullets when seating them?
Steve

[Traffer]

I got a 22 from my brother that sat in his garage to shoot ground squirrels with bird shot...for over 25 years. It almost looked like a smooth bore when he gave it to me. Both of us thought there was no rifling left in it. I tried brushes first ...worked my way to the STEEL copper washed pot washers (not stainless steel but the ones that look like copper but are steel.) I must have run them down 20 or 30 times (few strands on the loop end of patch holder) Now you would think that the bore is new when you look at it. It is an old Remington 514. Since I thought the bore was gone anyway I went and did this. Now I would not be afraid to do it in any gun.

[exile]

Thanks, exile.

[richmanpoorman]

6 rounds of jacketed bullets will remove lead. Barnes are best as the grooves scrape out the lead. 80% of max loads work best.