I'm smiling! 44 mag Lyman 429421 bullet

[mugsie]

I just returned from the range with my 44 mag and 45 LC, the purpose was to try magnum primers in my loads. I can't find standard primers anywhere, so I thought I'd give magnums a try. The 44 had a Lyman 429421 245g LSWC bullet, wheel weight water quenched and lubed with a mixture of felix lube and JPW (I had the felix lube, so I remelted some, plopped in a dolop or two of JPW, stired not shaken and put into the Lyman Lubisizer). I used 19 grains of 2400 powder with CCI 350 magnum primers. I can tell you first hand it's a stout load. Fired 50 shots at 25 yards, off hand and they all grouped very nicely. This is coming out of a Ruger Redhawk with 7.5 inch barrel. Hogue grips.

Even with the Hogue grips, the punch to the palm of my hand was impressive. It wasn't too far off commercial 44 magnum loads. Accuracy was fine, and there was no leading in the barrel, to which I'm grateful. These were not gas checked bullets, and they had to be upwards of 1200+ feet per sec I would imagine.

I'll back off the power to 14 or 15 grains and try it again. 19 was too much for punching paper and a waster of powder. 14 or 15 should be a nice comfortable load and still obturate the bullet.

Boy I love casting my own. Now if only I could make my own cases and primers I'd be all set!:-D

[Poygan]

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 19.4 as the start load for 2400 @974 and 23.4 grains @1232 fps. So, your proposed load would be far below the minimum start point. You may consider something a bit faster like Unique which has a starting load of 9.8 grains for 912 fps. The 2400 probably won't burn cleanly at that low a load. This is for the 429421.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Mugsie, Yes this is a good boolit. I have used it for 30 years in my .44's and it is nice to shoot, does most anything a fellow needs for everyday plinking and hunting. I don't use gas checks with this boolit either, it is accurate enough and doesn' lead my barrels. I shoot it in my Rugers and a couple of S&W's. I have always sized it to .432 , if I size it.

I shoot 22 gr. of 2400 most of the time. if I load lite I use 17gr. , this will give you a similar load to a .44 special, great plinking load. very mild. I have used 19-20gr., also a good load.

I also use the 250 gr. keith @ 20gr of 2400 for a heavy boolit load, if you want more, you can go up a couple of gr. if you like recoil in a Ruger.

These aren't max loads, but they do the job and are fine for most of my shooting.
Enjoy and good casting/shooting.

P.S. Poygan, Take what you "read" with a grain of salt and try it before you make remarks about it, the 429421 is a 245-250gr boolit, the 429215 usually drops at about 210 with WW. The 19gr load is not"far below" the starting point for 2400 powder. Me thinks you are misinformed.

[Ben]

Slow Elk 45/70:

Re read Poygans comments one more time. He is correct.
14 - 15 grs. would be low if 19 is the suggested starting load.

[Down South]

I shoot the same boolit out of my S&W 629 Classic. Don't back off of the powder charge you are using. If anything go up. The starting load using that boolit and 2400 is above what you posted.

[runfiverun]

19 grs and the magnum primer is a good balance here.
if i want lower i change powders too 12 grs of 800-x or 8 grains of titegroup are a bit lower.
for just fun and plinking around but with some oomph still i lower the titegroup to 6 grs.
or use 7+ grs of unique.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Ben, the ONLY thing he is correct about is what the Lyman book says. His theory is flawed..Have you guys ever loaded 44 specials?? I agree that the Da-- book may say 19.4 to start in a 44 mag, when the book lists a minimum load for a 44 mag, 19.4 gr. will give you velocity at the low end of what they considered Magnum performance.

This doesn't imply that the powder will not burn at a lower charge.I have used a lot of 44 loads of 2400 at 16- 17.5, no problem .17.5 is the max load recommended in a 44spl case. This is the load that spawned the 44 mag....

The man said he wants a liter load, what he described will produce a 44 special velocity for plinking. I agree that 6-7gr Unique is a better plinker if you have the powder. I would recommend he try 16-17gr 2400 not 14-15 but he has to learn something, at least he is loading and shooting the load. 2400 is not one of the powders that act like 296 or h-110 that is sensitive to low pressure loads.

If you want to stand on the Book, be my guest, but you will miss a lot unless you study the powder you use and what can be done with it.

[AlaskaMike]

I've got to agree with Slow Elk--2400 isn't sensitive with regard to downloading. It may not be optimal at .44 special loads, but it certainly isn't unsafe at those pressures. 2400 is a very forgiving powder for these types of experiments.

Personally though, I'd prefer 10 grains of Alliant Power Pistol or 8 to 8.5 grains of 231.

Mike

[Ben]

Slow Elk 45/70 :

Mugsie appears to be a young , novice caster and reloader. You say his " theory " is flawed. When you're a young reloader, you don't have too many theories, you only have the load data that is sitting in front of you to use.

Telling him to disregard data in loading manuals and move out on his own doesn't seem to be a safe practice for a young reloader.

If you choose to advise him of this, that is up to you. I would tell a young novice caster to stick to published reloading manuals and use their suggested starting loads without reduction. Safety for young , novice, casters and reloader's is paramount.

I think the point has been made well, if he wants less velocity, Unique may be a better alternative.

Your point that 2400 is a flexible powder and will perform at a lower charge is true. The question is does a novice reloader understand which powders can be treated this way.

I'm glad that when I was a young reloader that my mentor stressed to me to obey and follow strictly the data provided in load data manuals ( or as you'd say the BOOK )

Ben

[Down South]

19 grs and the magnum primer is a good balance here.
That is the exact load that I use with very good results.

[Leftoverdj]

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 19.4 as the start load for 2400 @974 and 23.4 grains @1232 fps. So, your proposed load would be far below the minimum start point. You may consider something a bit faster like Unique which has a starting load of 9.8 grains for 912 fps. The 2400 probably won't burn cleanly at that low a load. This is for the 429421.

If the OAL is held constant, the capacity of the .44 Mag case is the same as the .44 Special case. In other words, you can use .44 Special data in .44 Mag cases if you hold OAL around 1.6". In this case, I would not even be concerned about OAL. Crimping in the crimp groove will be close enough.

PS. I dug out my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd. edition. For #429421, in a .44 Special case it shows 11.4 to 13.2 grains of 2400 with an OAL of 1.571 and a velocity from 704 to 797 fps.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Ben, I did not tell him to"disregard" anything. I "tried" to explain my statement. You make what ever you want of it.

The "Fact" is that it is OK to use lower charges of 2400. It has been done for a very long time.

If you choose to only read the book , and interprete the information as absolutes for calibers like the 38/357 , 44spl/44mag do it.

The loading books are not the only references out there, if you care to read a bit.
When they publish their Loads for 38 spl/44spl they are separated for the people that don't load the magnums, same with the magnums. This doesn't mean that the charges of a given powder that is used in either caliber 38/44spl is not to used in the mag.

Enough of this . I will shut up and you folks can have your way.

[leftiye]

Try some Blue Dot - super for mid pressure loads with good velocity to pressure ratios to boot.