Question about lead

[Fugowii]

I'm a flat out noob to casting. I haven't melted one thing yet nor made a boolit
but I'm getting there. I'm a cast iron ladle away from doing my first smelt. What
I have done so far is to scrounge lead. I've got a bucket of WW (no small feat
around here) and I purchased 70 pounds of lead, some in one pound ingots made
with a Lyman mould and some strange pieces that I cannot figure out what they
were moulded with, if they were. Maybe the guy that had them originally scrounged
them in that form, but I was getting these from a friend of his and he had no clue.
I got it for such a deal that it was an ask no questions transaction. He just wanted
to get rid of it.

Now on top of that I have traded for about fifty pounds of Lino/Mono lead as well.

My question is this: Is the only way to confirm what I actually purchased/traded
for would be to check the hardness of the lead?

(I've tried to do a search and my problems with the search is that there are so
many great topics that I get sidetracked on I can never get to an answer to my
question!) :)

[kyle623]

yes youre pretty much gonna have to test the bihn hardness to tell if they are hard enough. chances are the ingots in the lymon molds should be ww the mystery chuncks will deffinetly need testing.

[geargnasher]

What moulds do you have or are planning to cast with? Are you planning on just plinking or hunting or competition? I personally use a lot of different stuff in the alloys that I don't care too much about and save the good stuff for where it matters. I smelt and flux everything and make ingots out of it, then test the hardness and mark them so only relatively known quantities go into the casting pot. You can resmelt, flux, and harness test your unknown stuff and re-alloy it based on the results and check such things as melting temp, water-vs.-air quenching harness (to test for presence of antimony/arsenic), weight vs. volume (cast a few of an unknown and compare to a known from same mould at same temp). I use alll sorts of stuff from range lead (some mine, some unknown) to battery terminals, odd stuff friends come up with, old plumber's lead, curtain weights, you name it. I like to save my wheel weights because automotive weights seem to be fairly consistent and most of my loads are worked up with them as a primary ingredient. I always bh test and weigh each lot of boolits before loading, if anything changes I reduce the load and work up again just to be sure.

I would save the linotype and monotype to use as additives to adjust bh of other alloys you have, not as a primary alloy as they are way too hard and way too expensive to use as-they-are for most purposes.

Keep posting!

Gear

[Springfield]

A hardness tester is the best way to tell EXACTLY what you are getting. But dropping ingots on a concrete floor and listening to the ring, or lack of it, tells you a great deal. Pure lead will just go thunk, and linotype and above will have a ring to it. Wheelweights will have a ring but not as nice as the lino. It's crude but if you are buying scrap it isn't that bad a system. At the very least, if a guy tells you it is pure, and you drop it on the concrete and get a slight ring or more you know he is wrong. You might still want it but maybe the price may change or you may not buy so much. Also if you end up with a mixed batch it is an easy way to sort it by type. Better than testing every ingot, and it will get you close after a little experience.

[JIMinPHX]

Even knowing the hardness doesn't guarantee that you have what you think you have. Contaminants like zinc don't show up on a hardness test. Try to buy your lead from trusted sources when possible.

& welcome to the board.

Regards,
Jim

[runfiverun]

you can also guess by making boolits from your known ww alloy and from the unknown alloy them waiting 10 days them smashing theem together in a vise.
you will at least know if it is harder softer or the same as your ww's.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Fugowii, Hullo and welcome, I agree that the drop/ring or lack of works for the most part and it is useful when you are away from your equipment for a quick check of alloy, so try to learn what to look for and listen to.

when you buy from unknown sources, you takes your chances. Just because you get ingots that have been poured into a Lyman ingot tray , doesn't mean it is Lyman alloy [#2] .[smilie=1:

Just be careful what you spend your cash on, a fellow posted a buy here a couple of weeks ago that had just bought a load of zinc.:roll:
Good Luck and good casting to you.:drinks:

[Fugowii]

Fugowii, Hullo and welcome, I agree that the drop/ring or lack of works for the most part and it is useful when you are away from your equipment for a quick check of alloy, so try to learn what to look for and listen to.

when you buy from unknown sources, you takes your chances. Just because you get ingots that have been poured into a Lyman ingot tray , doesn't mean it is Lyman alloy [#2] .[smilie=1:

Just be careful what you spend your cash on, a fellow posted a buy here a couple of weeks ago that had just bought a load of zinc.:roll:
Good Luck and good casting to you.:drinks:

Thanks SE,

I'm pretty sure the Lino/Mono is what the fellow said it was. He was an old printer
and he used to put a handful of lead in his pocket from time to time to make his
boolits. He hasn't casted in about twenty years and this was sitting in his cellar
until I came along. As for the other, I have no clue so I do have to be careful
and check it out. I am going to re-smelt that stuff and bring it up to heat slowly
to make sure that I don't have any of the zinc. The only thing I know about this
lead is that, like the other, it has been around for quite a while (not quite as long)
so I am optimistic. Thanks to all for your inputs. You guys are great!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Good for you, you can't go wrong using a thermometer and monitoring your heat, watching the melt and skim before you hit say 730*, zinc melts @ +-770*, if you skim @ +650 you should get any copper in the melt out also, this can clog your pour spout, there is usually some copper present in Monotype.

[Wayne Smith]

Have you any known pure? That, a 3/8"-3/4" ball bearing, and a vice will give you a comparable scale. Have some way to have relatively consistent pressure on the vice handle, place the ball bearing between two pieces, press away. You will have two different size depressions, telling you relative hardness. No measurable way to evaluate this in a known scale, but you can get a 'feel' for it if you do it enough.

If no pure then ww are relatively consistent.

[Fugowii]

Have you any known pure? That, a 3/8"-3/4" ball bearing, and a vice will give you a comparable scale. Have some way to have relatively consistent pressure on the vice handle, place the ball bearing between two pieces, press away. You will have two different size depressions, telling you relative hardness. No measurable way to evaluate this in a known scale, but you can get a 'feel' for it if you do it enough.

If no pure then ww are relatively consistent.

Thanks for the idea Wayne. I have an arbor press and I think I can set up
something to do this. All I need is a constant weight (dumbells or something)
and it should be good to go.

[fredj338]

Even knowing the hardness doesn't guarantee that you have what you think you have. Contaminants like zinc don't show up on a hardness test. Try to buy your lead from trusted sources when possible.

& welcome to the board.

Regards,
Jim
This is true. A hardness tester only tells you the BHN, it won;t tell you if it's zinc, babbit,lead or whatever.
It's one reason I won't buy unknown scrap. WW, at least for now, are a known item, so for the most part is range scrap. At elast you know the range scrap used to be some kind of castable lead alloy.

[Fugowii]

Here is a picture of some of the unknown lead. I did a drop test on it and I think
that it is close to pure lead as it hit with a thud. I'm not sure if this came from a
mould (It looks like it) or it was taken from something. The shape is nothing that
rang a bell with me, either from a mould, or from anything I've seen in life.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/ruby_ridge/04_25_2009013a.jpg

I did a drop test on the ingots that came with this and compared it to the known
Lino/Mono and it sounded the same. Nice solid ring. Interesting to say the least.

[454PB]

I'd suggest you keep that separate from any other known good alloy until you're sure it's even lead.......it looks like zinc based castings to me.

[JIMinPHX]

Some Good info here -

http://www.theantimonyman.com/testingmetals.htm

[Echo]

Can you scratch the castings with your thumbnail? If so, I would call it lead. Pure zinc castings are hard, and lighter than lead. If lead, render them down, but keep separate from known stuff.