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View Full Version : results as promised in .358 win



TREERAT
04-24-2009, 12:24 PM
just got back from the range. results: lowest preasure loads fired first = 27g reloader 7 - light leading in bore and light lube blowback on necks. accuracy was horrable! (8 inch), 8-)next was 11g unique - now I am getting somewhere, no leading what so ever in the bore and it also removed the light leading from the the reloader 7 loads!!! but had a lot of lead and lube deposits on the necks. accuracy pretty good.:???: last was 9g red dot - very light bore leading, pretty good accuracy, but lots of lead and lube blow back on the necks.

so I will try next reduce from 11g to 10g unique, to see if the blowback on the necks reduces.
and reduce from 9g to 8g red dot for the same reason + the light leading.
I think I am now going in the right dirrection, whats your opinion?
I do think that my bullet size in diameter needs to be larger, mabye this is the cause of the blow back. but at least I am getting closer to a load I can tune to.

243winxb
04-24-2009, 01:13 PM
For Rifle size bullets .002" to .003" over barrel groove diameter if they will fit the throat/leade of your chamber. Use a Lyman "M" dies so you don't shave lead on seating a bullet. But with all your experence, u knew this already i bet.

leftiye
04-24-2009, 02:13 PM
Your neck blowback is probly due to the low pressures (more powder instead of less), and short pressure curves from the fast powders. Your leading with RL7 could have been too high of velocity, poor lube, and/or undersized boolits. Possibly too soft of boolit alloy also. FWIW

TREERAT
04-24-2009, 02:47 PM
leftiye; I agree more powder usually reduces neck blowback, in any revolver I have loaded for. usually because the brass does not expand enough, but this rifle I seem to be walking a fine line between blowback and barrel leading I either seem to have one or the other. so I must have one or more other problems. bullet probably needs to be bigger, bhn is 19.3, so plenty hard, mabye trying softer bhn would help obturate more then increase powder to alevieate the blow back. so many variables to try. but I figure as long as I only try one variable at a time I will eventually get it there.

Slow Elk 45/70
04-24-2009, 03:11 PM
I think you need to have the boolit sized correctly 1st, and I think you are going the wrong direction with the powder. When the bore seals, me thinks you will see progress.

243winxb
04-24-2009, 04:38 PM
3 Threads(or more) for the same gun/problem, how interesting and confusing. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51836 Buy the proper gas check bullet mould 358315 or 358318. Get the proper alloy, Lyman #2. Then buy a sizer for an exact bullet diameter. And some real 358win. brass, instead of sized/formed, blowby 30-06 brass. Plus a lube of known quality. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=141111 And IMO, stop water dropping bullets, it keeps the tin from doing its job (stops leading) If you alloy is correct, WD just a waist of time.

Bret4207
04-24-2009, 06:09 PM
243, the point is he WANTS to use the PB boolit. That's what the experiment is all about. Everything he's got should eventually work out, it's just going to take time and work.

TR- I think a softer alloy might be worth a try, or see if you can get them a little fatter. IIRC you're WD the boolits. Maybe that makes them a little too tough to bump and seal if they're undersize at all..

TREERAT
04-24-2009, 09:22 PM
3 Threads(or more) for the same gun/problem, how interesting and confusing. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51836 Buy the proper gas check bullet mould 358315 or 358318. Get the proper alloy, Lyman #2. Then buy a sizer for an exact bullet diameter. And some real 358win. brass, instead of sized/formed, blowby 30-06 brass. Plus a lube of known quality. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=141111 And IMO, stop water dropping bullets, it keeps the tin from doing its job (stops leading) If you alloy is correct, WD just a waist of time.

sorry if I have offended you, did not mean to! but when you put it like that, I just as well buy 180g speer jacketed flat nose, load imr 3031 and be done with it. these shoot 1 1/2 groups at 100 yds. I do want to shoot plain base. and you would have to prove that .358 cases are in any way supperior to my 30-06 fire formed cases. .358 cases come up .035 to short for my chamber, and in the same way the bullet must fit the throat a case too short for the chamber leaves alot of room for gas cutting to occur. and as for lube is there any problem with carnuba red? you very well could be right about the water droped though, could be making an undersized bullet even worse! well I hope I did not come off sounding rude about this, just wanted to defend myself!

runfiverun
04-25-2009, 01:40 AM
dude you are trying to accomplish something.
i went the other way with mine.
hard boolits and h/v. i use 308 brass necked up cause i didn't have any 358 brass and nobody wanted to order it for me. i can also cut it to fit right to the chamber neck.
the more you gotta work at what you are trying to do the more you learn about what to try when you have problems whether going fast or slow.

Slow Elk 45/70
04-25-2009, 01:56 AM
TreeRat, don't let one negative poster deter you from what you are trying to achieve. You are working a problem and one thing will probably lead to another before you arrive at the final conclusion.

Keep the faith , I'm sure you will succeed.

GrizzLeeBear
04-25-2009, 05:33 PM
There is no reason that your reformed 30-06 cases shouldn't work just fine. I have reformed a bunch of 06 brass into 8mm with no problems.
Like the others said getting the boolits big enough is the 1st thing to take care of, even if you have to "beagle" the mold to get it to cast fat enough. Do a search for "beagle" "beagling". Basically its using a couple small strips of 3M high temp. flue tape between the mold halves to make it cast a fatter boolit.
The plain base is going to limit your velocity to somewhere between 1100 and 1400 fps depending on all the other variables. In my searches for such loads, I have seen many people list loads of 8 gr. of Red Dot and 10 gr. of Unique in cases of similar capacity.
You are going to have to live with dirty or sooty case necks and shoulders. These low velocity loads do not usually generate enough pressure to make the neck seal very well.
You might also try some loads with IMR TrailBoss. I have had good luck with loads of 10 - 12 grains in the .308 30-06 and 8mm with plain base boolits.

....OOPS. Just saw your other post about beagling the mold. Sounds like you got it figured out. Keep at it. Good luck!

joeb33050
04-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Your neck blowback is probly due to the low pressures (more powder instead of less), and short pressure curves from the fast powders.


I "M"die, expand and bell case mouths, at each reloading. If the belled case mouth drags on the chamber neck as it chambers, I get minimum to no gas blow by. It takes a while with a few cases, an "M" die in a press, and a caliper. I fiddle, size and bell until I get it right. For example, my 308 Striker likes the case mouth belled so it's ~.340". No blow by with slow loads of fast powder.
N.B., cases should be the same length to bell uniformly.


Your leading with RL7 could have been too high of velocity, poor lube, and/or undersized boolits. Possibly too soft of boolit alloy also. FWIW
joe b.

felix
04-25-2009, 06:56 PM
Yeah, Joe, it is not a sin to help the powder speed up a little (in effect) any way you know how. ... felix

Ben
04-25-2009, 08:14 PM
TREERAT :

Which bullet (s) are you shooting ?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51960

TREERAT
04-26-2009, 02:51 AM
to Ben: lyman 358430 196g pb

to joeb33050: I do not crimp, I use a lee flare die, and also leave as much flare as I can and still chamber. it does help with alot with blowback on the necks that do not have the preasure to expand the brass well.

grizzLeeBear: I beleive I was pushing them to hard, the 10g unique and 8g red dot are my next loads to try. last trip was 11g unique no lead what so ever, but more melted lead blowback than I like, thats why I beagled up the mold. 9g red dot had very mild leading but the same blowback.

runfiverrun: were you using pb or gc?

TREERAT
04-26-2009, 03:14 AM
just a side note, the reason I love the .358 win chambering is cartrige brass supply, here is a list of cases I have made into .358 win
30-06
.280
.270
25-06
.308
6.5x55
7mm 08
.243 I much perfer to cut off longer cases and size down, as it gives more consistent and better fit for my ruger's loose chamber. short cases seem ok with jacket bullets, but once you get down to .243 streached that much the neck wall thickness starts getting alittle thin. I never loose a case sizing down but when I get as small as .243 I loose about 3% on average, usually because the shoulder rolls in while necking up. and all thes cases are anneled and sized in one pass through a lee .358 win die, no expensive step dies for me!!!

Bret4207
04-26-2009, 08:34 AM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using reformed brass. Anyone who's really building an accurate rifle pretty much customizes his cases to his chamber, TR is doing the same thing.

runfiverun
04-26-2009, 06:43 PM
tr i am running at full velocity here , so...using gas checks.
water dropping or heat quenching may help you too, along with sizing to true groove diameter for a slip fit. [no squeezing,no obduration]
let the lube do it's thing and maybe help it,with a wet swab down the bbl every 20-50 shots.
i would rather swab once in a while rather then try to stop gunk in the bbl.
not clean mind you, just keep a wet bore. lanolin in the lube seems to help do this as do some other things.