Mihec 358395 HBWC Cramer

[happy7]

I would like to guage interest in a Mihec made copy of Lyman's 358395 Hollow Base Wad Cutter in a Cramer style mold. I would really like it to be a four cavity as this is a target/plinking bullet and needs to be set up for volume production. This would be a very unique mold as it is not an alteration you can do to an existing mold, since you have to have a nose pour mold to do it with. Making these with Lyman's mold has always been very time consuming and a four cavity cramer style would be a sort of revolution in casting this boolit.

So speak up if you are interested. If we can get up enough interest, we can approach Mihec and see if we can get him to make it for us.

[azrednek]

I would definitely be interested if it can be done in a multi-cavity. I have this in a single cavity and it is real shooter but very very slow boolit to cast. If Mihec's version is capable of dropping more than one at a time I'm on board. Time permitting, I'll try and get some pictures up and edit them in.

[azrednek]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/358395-final.gifhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/358395-1.gif

All I currently have on hand that are not loaded, were sized and hard lubed. I got the best shooting results by tumble lubing, no sizing and using the Lee Factory Crimp die. The post sizing ring in the crimp die provides sufficient sizing so the loads chamber easily. I cast these a few years ago and could be wrong but depending on the alloy they drop any where from 358-361. The closer I got my alloy to pure the better they would shoot. The castings in the pictures were cast from straight clip-on wheel weights I accumulated in the early 70's.

Using the classic load of 2.7-3.0 grs of Bullseye one can shoot hundreds of these in a single outing without any signs of leading. The cleanest shooting for me are those that were lubed with uncut Lee Tumble Lube and coated with Motor Mica. The mica dramatically reduces the smoke and residue.

[cuzinbruce]

I would be interested in this.

[Edubya]

I'll take one of those. Please make it 148 gr.

[mroliver77]

See how it shakes out but I am interested in this one.
Jay

[azrednek]

I'll take one of those. Please make it 148 gr.

I'm with Edubya on this. Please make it so it drops soft lead as close as possible to 148.

[TCFAN]

I am also interested in a multi cavity 358395 HBWC. A 4 cav would be great but even a 2 cav would be better than my SC Ideal mold.

I shoot a lot of these boolits and the only bullet that will beat it in my K-38 is Speer HBWC.

I would hope the design would be as close as possible to the original.....Terry

[hunter64]

I'm in and also one for a .45LC would be great too.

[ChuckS1]

I'd buy one.

[hicard]

I am watching this thread with interest. Not committed yet.

[bgokk]

I want one. I am getting near the bottom of my box of Speer HBWC's.

[Porterhouse]

Please count me in! 4 or even 6 cav would be great. I might consider buying two of them as I cast high volume at once.

[bgokk]

Bump! I want this to go.

[Porterhouse]

I agree. I NEED this!

[ddeaton]

I am in

[Dave Berryhill]

Count me in. What's a "Cramer style" mold?

[stephen]

I'm in.

[hunter64]

Looks like there is 16 so far and we need about 20 or so. I have never shot this bullet before but reading in Ken Waters book last night he loves the hollow base wad cutters. He tried loading them the wrong way around so the hollow is pointing out and he was surprised at how accurate the bullet still was and you can imagine the devastation that a near pure lead hollow point slug would have at 800 fps. This would be perfect in a small J frame/sp101 etc. 38 snub as a defensive tool.

[happy7]

This started slow, but I am very glad to see it is picking up steam. I sure hope Mihec will do it in a four cavity for us. It will be an awesome mold.

[crf250x]

I'd be in for two of these.

[45 2.1]

Could somebody here send me a few of these so I can draw this up?

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm in for a four-cavity.

[TCFAN]

Could somebody here send me a few of these so I can draw this up?



45 2.1
samples are in the mail....you should have them in a couple of days....Terry

[happy7]

TCFAN,

Thank you for sending the bullets to 45.2.1.

[HeavyMetal]

I am interested but don't know if the economy has recovered enough for me to make a purchase

I will be interested in following the thread and seeing what price mihec quotes for this.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I just looked good and long at AzRedNeck's photo/drawing posted.

Can someone explain to me about Button-Nose vs. flat-faced? I see Lyman listed an almost exact duplicate of the 395, but with a flat face (no button nose) as 35863 (pic below from Cast Pics - middle row, far left boolit).

I know that certain guns, like the Clark/Pachmayr 1911 38 Spl. Target conversions and the S&W Mod.52 can't feed the button-noses, but is there some sort of target quality/advantage to the button nose?

I've shot plenty of swaged HBWCs and a fair share of cast of Lyman's 358495 w/ the driving band & button nose that sticks out of the case 1/10" or so... I've always felt and experienced that the WCs shooting qualities have to do with low recoil, bearing surface engaging the rifling well, and in the HB versions, the skirt expanding to ensure fit in throat, leade, and barrel... Never gave much thought to the nose, other than it cuts a nice hole in the target...

http://www.castpics.net/molds/Lyman14.jpg

[HeavyMetal]

MM10:
Don't belive for one minute that the Smith 52 won't feed boolits with a "nose" on them!

I have both a pair of 35863's and one 35887. If I load the 35887 flush to the shoulder and use just a touch of crimp this boolit feeds fine and I get to Jams!

I have long suspected case length is more important with the 52 than most think.

Having said that I don't think the 358495 will work unless seated flush as well.

Now let me bring one more idea to the table: For a hollow base wadcutter to be cast you must make a nose pour mold, correct?

That means no way to cast that funny nose up front no matter which shape of dimple you like!

So I think we need to consider this a 35863 HBWC group buy.

Just a thought, what do you guys think?

[45 2.1]

MM10: Now let me bring one more idea to the table: For a hollow base wadcutter to be cast you must make a nose pour mold, correct?
That means no way to cast that funny nose up front no matter which shape of dimple you like!

As long as the button nose is a little bigger than the sprue hole, which it is here, there is no problem with a nose pour, hollow base version IF you were going to use a full diameter base plug with the hollow base shape on top of it. The problem here is that the cutter is on a shank and has to be large enough to not let it deflect while cutting. The cramer pin would need to be large enough to let that happen. It would also be larger than the hollow base cavity. If the cramer pin itself was the diameter of the slug, this would work fine, the the actual pin for the hollow base would be on top of it. It could also be reversed for a flat based version. Mihec would have to cut the blocks upside down and mill the top to get the button right also. BTDT on a Vetterli mold.

[Beau Cassidy]

I will take a 5 holer in this one.

[happy7]

Beau, this is hopefully going to be a 4 cavity. I am still waiting for Mihec to get back to us on a price for an aluminum 4 cavity.

[45 2.1]

Beau, this is hopefully going to be a 4 cavity. I am still waiting for Mihec to get back to us on a price for an aluminum 4 cavity.

An aluminum 4 cavity cramer? Or maybe a brass version?

[happy7]

When I communicated with Mihec about it, he indicated that he might do a 4 cavity but it would be aluminum. I know, I would prefer brass, but would take aluminum to get a four cavity. He hasn't set a price yet, though.

[HeavyMetal]

Still interested in a mold, just pointing out that button nose may be more trouble than it's worth!

I dug out an old Lyman manual fron the early 60's and looked at the 358395 and yes it has both the button nose and a hollow base so it is do-able.

Mihec may be able to do both a button nose and a flat nose with the same cherry as he has done different diameters in the past with the same cherry, can't hurt to ask.

Again I will watch for the final and price.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Personally, I'd just prefer for durability-sake that we not have a Cramer-style in aluminum. (I know with the Cramer you don't need to beat or even hit the hollow-pointer, and that gentle taps to merely pushing it is sufficient.) I just like the idea of iron or brass for the material.

As far as the WC design goes, I've preferred flat-nosed ones, but I don't have a problem with the button-nose.

[Beau Cassidy]

Beau, this is hopefully going to be a 4 cavity. I am still waiting for Mihec to get back to us on a price for an aluminum 4 cavity.

Either way I am in. Prefer Brass.

[happy7]

I have asked Mihec to consider making it a BRASS 4 cavity. I think that is what most of us want, correct? I know it is what I want. Once he gets back to us with a price, and once 45.2.1 gets the drawing posted we can finalize the details on this, and I will start signing people up for this one and try to show Mihec that we deserve to be added to the list of future molds he will do.

[hicard]

I have a model 52 Smith and would prefer a flat nose vs button nose. A 4 cavity brass cramer style mould would be good.

[TCFAN]

I hope we can keep this boolit true to the design of the original 358395HBWC.This is a great shooting boolit in my 14-6 Smith and I would hate to see it changed........Terry

[45 2.1]

I hope we can keep this boolit true to the design of the original 358395HBWC.This is a great shooting boolit in my 14-6 Smith and I would hate to see it changed........Terry

I got the boolits you sent last night. Being out of a Lyman, the boolit doesn't look too much like the picture (Lyman's continual change the cherry procedure). This one has narrow bands and larger square bottomed (with draft) lube grooves. Something to look at:

[686]

i like the 3rd bullet, but think a hb the shape of his hp would be more like a factory wchb bullet. it would help the bullet to do it's thing and open up tight against the barrel. that is the point of a hb bullet, oh yes the deeper hb lets the bullet be longer. keep it at 148 gr.

[HeavyMetal]

Neat drawings as always.

I realize the point of the thread is to make a copy of the 359495 but do we really need all those lube grooves?

I lube a single groove on my WC's and I read a thread that many do the same thing because to much lube spoils accuracy.

As it might affect the price by making the cherry easier to make should we consider a single lube grove, maybe a little more towards the "bow" of the boolit?

This would add a little strength and weight which would allow us a little deeper hollow base which would then maintain the 148 "projected" weight of the boolit?

Keeping the button nose and crimp groove is no issue and the resultant design would work in 52's and 14's.

Just putting out some ideas to think about.

[felix]

I would not worry about the weight of the boolit because of its intent. It's a 50-75 foot range bullseye boolit, right?
Balance is extremely important, and that should be maintained as that of the original sample if that sample indeed shoots all "10s" with a 52. ... felix

[686]

i shoot hbwc at 50 yrd. matches. this bullet may work also.

[Beau Cassidy]

I like number 2. How about a pole as to which one everyone likes?

[ChuckS1]

Either #2 or #3, but I would also want this ti come out at 148 grains with a soft (not pure) lead alloy.

[MakeMineA10mm]

i like the 3rd bullet, but think a hb the shape of his hp would be more like a factory wchb bullet. it would help the bullet to do it's thing and open up tight against the barrel. that is the point of a hb bullet, oh yes the deeper hb lets the bullet be longer. keep it at 148 gr.
I think I agree. A longer/deeper cone-tapered spud shape, more like the swaged HBWC would seem to be more ideal, but keep in mind Felix' comments too.

I would not worry about the weight of the boolit because of its intent. It's a 50-75 foot range bullseye boolit, right?
Balance is extremely important, and that should be maintained as that of the original sample if that sample indeed shoots all "10s" with a 52. ... felix
listen to Felix. It would be nice to know where CoG and CoB are in relation to each other. With a bullet as aerodynamic as a brick, this is pretty important.

As far as the other features: button vs. flat nose and # of lube grooves, I'm flexible, though I have my biases (flat nose & 2 lube grooves).

[TCFAN]

I think I agree. A longer/deeper cone-tapered spud shape, more like the swaged HBWC would seem to be more ideal, but keep in mind Felix' comments too.

listen to Felix. It would be nice to know where CoG and CoB are in relation to each other. With a bullet as aerodynamic as a brick, this is pretty important.

As far as the other features: button vs. flat nose and # of lube grooves, I'm flexible, though I have my biases (flat nose & 2 lube grooves).

MakeMineA10mm makes some very good points.

One thing that we might consider is making the design more like a Speer HBWC. I don't have any on hand but I think they are some what shorter and weigh less than the 358395.

The nose on the Speer I think is made to work in a model 52

As for the lube grooves on the 358395 that I have I only lube the bottom groove.So the way I have to do it is run the boolit in a lyman 360 sizer just enough to get lube in the bottom groove and the run it through a Lee .358 sizer.

So what if this new boolit was designed with several small lube grooves that would hold the same amount of lube as the original 358395 holds in the one bottom groove ? Maybe something like a Lee TL boolit or a Loverin type grooves.

Any way just thinking out loud.......I am in for one of these molds no matter what the finial design.....................Terry

[HeavyMetal]

I've been thinking about this thread all week.

The shape of the nose is of no importance to me, flat is just as good as the button. Once we add a hollow base the DEWC concept kinda "goes out the window".

The hollow base is my real concern and the reason I suggested a single lube groove and moving it forward on the design.

I will point out that Ken Waters did an interesting piece years ago on the 38 S&W cartridge.

Towards the end he decided to try HB wadcutters as he had a supply of swaged factory type on hand.

He has an interesting photo showing seperated skirts from the HB wadcutters lodged in the forcing cone of the Ruger revolver he was shooting. He also stated that he found a bunch of skirts laying on the floor of the indoor range he was using.

His conclusion was that he had mildly crimped the HBWC's in the middle lube groove ( these were dry lubed) to seat the boolits out of the case ( they were to long to seat flush and load safely in his opinion)

The crimp "scored" the boolit and allowed them to seperate when fired! Ken's conlusion was this was not caused by to much pressure in the load. The HBWC's he was loading were just to fragile.

He also thought that this skirt seperation might have been the issue of 38 target loads blowing up rather than other less likely theories.

By changing to a single lube groove and moving it forward we can reduce this seperation issue to non existance, provided we do not allow the HB cavity to become so large as to weaken the structual integrity of the basic boolit design.

I have always thought the HBWC's were more accurate because of the nose heavy design not because the "skirt" may or may not have expanded to engage the rifling of the barrel.

I do not believe we have to have the "shot glass" shaped HB as we see in the factory swaged lead HBWC's. My Lee manual shows pressure reading for most loads (yes I realize Lee does not do this testing) and it shows a 148 GR. WC with 2.8 grains Bullseye generates 15,900 psi. I think thats enough pressure to expand the "skirt" on any reasonable HB design we decide to go with.

We can always "copy" a boolit design. In this case we have the opertunity to make a design better.

Again I'm just posting thoughts and idea's.

[MakeMineA10mm]

HeavyMetal,
I've read that article. An important consideration to keep in mind is that, because Ken was loading 38S&W (very short case - like 2/3 the length of a 38 Spl.), he was seating those HBWCs out of the case and crimping in the middle of the bullet. When I was reading that article the first time, I thought it was a bad idea and as I read along, that was confirmed! :mrgreen: Unless someone wanting this GB bullet design is planning on loading them "long" in short brass, I don't think we have a worry about exploding skirts, as the crimping (if any) will be over the front edge or into the crimp groove (if the final design retains one).

Also, I've got some Hornady swaged HBWCs and they taper concavely at the very back end so that the very rear end of the skirt is really thin, but up in the middle of the boolit, they are pretty thick. I don't think the heaviest crimp in the world would score them bad enough to separate.

I think the concept of the deeper hollow base is so that a longer section of the bullet has an opportunity to expand to grab the throats/forcing cone/rifling. With the HB copying the factory WC, as drawn by 45 2.1, only the very rear of the bullet (perhaps about 1/5 to 1/6 of its length) has the chance to expand and grab rifling, but on a deep HB, I bet up to 2/3 of the bullet length would have the opportunity to expand (depending on thickness, alloy composition, and amount of pressure the load develops, none to all of it will expand).

I've cast and loaded lots of DEWCs and the designs that shot the best for me were the ones with two lube grooves. This is anecdotal evidence, as I didn't separate out all of the possible variables, and it may not even apply to a HBWC.

Also, TCFAN's point is a good one (about moving a single lube groove out in front of the HB area), depending on what the group decides about the depth of the HB. (Because you don't want a lube groove down around the HB, or then we'll have the problem HeavyMetal was talking about, caused by the deepest point of the lube groove being in too close a vicinity to the HB.

I'm also just throwing things out there. I'm good with what the group decides. Heck, if we decide to quit all the design questioning and go with a copy of what TCFAN sent 45 2.1, I'm still in! :drinks:

[HeavyMetal]

MM10:
OK let's say we go with two lube grooves, I can set the Star to only lube one no big, and as long as they are far enough forward to prevent the skirt seperation issue ( I have always believed in Murphy's Law) then we have acomplished a good thing.

If a deeper cavity is needed a set of new pins can be formed easily enough particularly if someone wanted to turn it around when loading.

Heck the original boolit isn't bad I just think we can come up with something so much better if we keep tossing ideas around.

[Mohillbilly]

I like the idea of a HB and 1 lube groove,I'd leave the crimp and button alone,I am concerned about skirt thickness, pressure, cylinder mouthsize, force'n cone,and barrel diameter. These variables will cause "blown" skirts ..... I mean you can only bend a copper wire so many times and it will break. like wise a hard driven, thin skirt,hard alloy, in an oversize cylinder mouth will expand, and then be swagged by strike'n the force'n cone and squeezed more by the barrel while attempting to rotate.My idea of how skirts get twisted/blown off. It all depends on strength,pressures, and tolarances. your guns, alloy, and loadings maybe different. (I do intend to use near pure lead) however,I'm in for two brass 4 holers ........whatever everyone works out,I will go with........

[MakeMineA10mm]

MM10:
OK let's say we go with two lube grooves, I can set the Star to only lube one no big, and as long as they are far enough forward to prevent the skirt seperation issue ( I have always believed in Murphy's Law) then we have acomplished a good thing.

If a deeper cavity is needed a set of new pins can be formed easily enough particularly if someone wanted to turn it around when loading.

Heck the original boolit isn't bad I just think we can come up with something so much better if we keep tossing ideas around.

I agree, and I agree especially with getting some thoughts out now, vs. realizing we could have done "this" or "that" after we get the moulds...

The more I think about it, the more I think too many lube grooves with a bigger HB is too big a pain in the ear. (Well, you know - family site and all... :mrgreen: )

Maybe I should shut up and we could hear from 45 2.1 or some other experienced guys who can comment on the center of gravity vs. center of balance issue?

[HeavyMetal]

First I will suggest everybody take a look at the Saeco Number 348.

This is a double ended wadcutter with a single lube groove and, I think, a great design in and of itself. For wheel gunners it has crimp groove ( I have abosoltely no idea why!) or it can be seated flush and crimped as needed for a model 52.

Move the lube groove forward and delete the crimp grooves and add a HB and bang were good!

You want a button or bubble on the nose? No problem! Two small lube grooves instead of one? no problem as long as we maintain a safe "distance" between the last lube groove and the sides of the HB internal cavity.

As to the whole center of gravity / balance thing?

Put a rock in an old sock and throw it, note that everything follows the weight of the rock!

Not real "scientific" but certainly provides a "doable" demonstration for anyone interested.

Boolit "balance" at least in a wadcutter design yeilds us nothing. Tumbling of boolits is caused, usually, by a bad base or bad crown or both. This does mean boolits with proper fill out. Bad fillout, air bubbles, and cavity / voids are the product of casting and will be set aside for this explanation as these are controlled by the caster and his QC ability not boolit design.

Point in fact my rock / sock idea suggest that boolits with deeper cavities might be more accurate than those with shallower cavities.

That sure expalins why those "poorly" swaged commercial HBWC's shoot so darn well doesn't it!

Again I'm throwing out thoughts as I work my way through old catalogs, and reloading manuals, magizine articles on 38 wadcutter loads.

[HeavyMetal]

This was getting kind of low on the list so thought I'd ask if it was a dead idea or is it just on the back burner while everone tries to find funds?

[happy7]

No, I have been waiting for Mihec to say something to us, but he hasn't answered private messages. Just have to be patient. I am sure he is busy.

[45 2.1]

Balance discussions are kinda moot since this slug has the aerodynamics of a brick. A hollow base wadcutter would be nice. The main problem is what alloy do you make it out of to get factory wadcutter load accuracy (which is very soft), how are you going to lubricate it (several good dip lubes as well as a lube-sizer) and what level do you want to load it to? That last one will greatly influence what kind and how big the hollow base is. I'm not going to post a design that that MiHec can't make as I know what can be done with most all current tooling. I can duplicate the Hornady swaged hollow base as I have a few boxes of them. So, do you want to see some options or what?

[HeavyMetal]

I'd like to see some options but, as Happy7 points out, Mihec may be up to his ears in alligators right now.

Some criteria from my point of view. alloy should be soft, this is a perfect design for all those stick on wheel weights we have.

yes we need to be sure we don't "create" something we can't use or make easily. The swaged HBWC's are a good place to look for a basic design.

this boolit should be designed to work with the 2.5 to 2.8 Bullseye load so popular with Target shooters. A nose button or not is a big question and, honestly, as long as it does not interfer with feeding on a Model 52, it shouldn't matter. I will note that every swaged lead HBWC I've seen has no protruding nose on it.

Lubing is also an issue to be addressed. Many will tumble lube and just as many will run thse through a Star! I'm still on the single lube groove kick, because of the HB, but this could lend itself to tumble lube.

Again want to consolidate some ideas into a working, better idea, design.

[Beau Cassidy]

This bullet isn't gonna need just a copious amount of lube. Either 2 small lube grooves or 1 moderate-sized one.

[azrednek]

I will likely get in on this one but wont definitely commit until I see the final design. The reason I'm interested is a multi-cavity design. My single cavity Lyman is as slow casting as pouring cold molasses and the reject rate is high. The very slight improvement in the shot to shot accuracy when compared to my six cavity Lee double end, tumble lube is not worth the additional time I spend in front of the lead pot and dealing with the frustration of numerous rejects. Possibly a younger sharp-eyed shooter could see a significant improvement on paper.

If we go with a multi-cavity style that will cast as fast or even nearly as fast as the Lee will make it worth the investment. If the group buy mold works out, out shoots the Lee. I could easily recoup the cost and then some selling the Lyman and Lee molds here or if I'm greedy, peddle it on Ebay and get 2 or 3 times what their worth.

[mag44uk]

Why dont you have a style that emulates the classic swaged HBWC but have one GG towards the top of the bullet?
If you had a custom nose punch that fits the base,the bullet could be lubed nose down in a RCBS/Lyman sizer.
Nice and simple?
HTH
Tony

[azrednek]

but have one GG towards the top of the bullet?

Tony

Tony I hate to sound like a silly colonial butchering the Queen's English but what the hek is a GG?

[happy7]

Great news. I have heard back from Mihec, and he will do this in a 4 cavity brass mold for us. Price will about about $120 but he says that is not final and he may need to adjust it. I asked when he could do it, but he couldn't answer that right now. I think if we can get a design finalized and then show some interest, that will help. Certainly the interest has increased on this one recently.

45.2.1, thanks for offering to show us some options. I think it would be worthwhile to look at a drawing of a commercial swaged version as well as the 358395 drawing you did (modified 2, as with a four cavity I think we don't want these hanging up in the mold.) minus the bottom lube groove. Unfortunately we seem to have about as many ideas as we have people interested in the mold. I personally would like to see us refrain from going with an untested design. This mold is going to cost too many of us too much to be just an experiment.

[mag44uk]

Sorry.That would be a grease groove!
Tony

[45 2.1]

The Hornady swaged wadcutter and my choice:

[happy7]

Thanks, 45 for doing these. I don't see any grease grooves on the hornady, but thinking way back to last time I had some of these, I seem to remember they just had a cross pattern rolled into them to hold the lube. Is that correct? If so, that really won't work for us. I like the big cavity in the hollowbase. I am thinking that if Horandy with all the money they spend on R&D thought it was a good design, then it probably is.

So let's hear it. What do you think of Modified 3?

[happy7]

45.2 1,

Do you think square grooves are preferable on this design? I don't have a strong preference either way, but I am just thinking that with a four cavity, round grooves might release easier and I am all for that. But I will yield to whatever those more experienced than I think on this.

[45 2.1]

I don't see any grease grooves on the hornady, but thinking way back to last time I had some of these, I seem to remember they just had a cross pattern rolled into them to hold the lube. Is that correct?

Yes, it is.

Do you think square grooves are preferable on this design? I don't have a strong preference either way, but I am just thinking that with a four cavity, round grooves, might release easier and I am all for that. . But I will yield to whatever those more experienced than I think on this.

Remember, this is a Cramer style pin and the boolits will eject off the pin after the mold is opened, same as the old Lee HP molds did. There should be little or no problems doing this.

[HeavyMetal]

The boolit shown in post 65 Looks like an excellent design for the model 52.

Fed through a Star a simple pin pushing into the cavity should get them sized and lubed without damaging the skirt are4a.

45 2.1 nice touch on the bevel at the nose! If some one wants to load these backwards toat will help get them in the case and in the 52's this will give an area to crimp over when seated flush.

The wheel gun guys have enough of a driving band to stick into the chamber mouths.

All in all this should be a heck of a shooter.

I do have a concern with the location of the second lube groove but, as seen in the drawing, it is in the part of the boolit that has the least amount of cavity in it.

I say we go with this design and see when Mihec can set it up and finalize a price.

[Mohillbilly]

Looks good to me,I'd bet it will feed in my 1911 AMU(army marksman unit I think) sorta a 38 special with a trimed rim and full WC. No dout it ought to preform well in wheel guns ...

[MakeMineA10mm]

45 2.1 shows his drawing/engineering prowess again!

I love "Modified #3"! I'll take it!

When can I send the money?

[HeavyMetal]

I agree! lets see if Happy7 and Mihec can come up with a number, 4 banger brass mold!

[Romeoburbs]

Sure looks good to me. Count me in. Anxious to hear final price and delivery time.

Gene

[hicard]

#65 looks good to me too.

[stephen]

I'd be in for this one too.

[HeavyMetal]

So it's been about a month since we last visited this thread any news?

[happy7]

Thanks for bumping us up, Heavy. We need to keep this thread active. It seems Mihec has had some delays on his latest mold. Hopefully he will find a way to increase production. At the moment, we are not even on the list of upcoming molds at his website, so I think it will be awhile. But the more interest that is generated on this thread the better of a chance we have of getting this made sooner.

[HeavyMetal]

That Mihec has his hands full I do not doubt for a moment!

The nice thing about a "One Horse" operation is the great attention to detail. The bad thing is, once everyone else figures it out, the guy is flooded with orders and soon has the Lee backlog sydrome in full flight.

Add to that a real Job to pay the bills and a poor guy doesn't even have time to eat let alone anything else.

Might I suggest a new thread with the 45 2.1 drawing from post 65 as a lead in photo?

This way many who may get interested won't have to "wade" through the already done BS to see what we are talking about!

I also think we should consider a two banger and a four banger as options. Times are tight for everyone and this will give some a chance to get in on this excellent design that might pass for the cost of a four banger.

Just some thought.

[Highland Drifter]

I like mod 3 in post 65, I would go for a 2 or 4 cavity. If Miha can get a dedicated machine in the shop he makes molds in it might turn into a good 2nd income source for him. At this point I have interest in 8-10 MP molds. Miha makes these at a friends shop in his spare time only if the machine is sitting idle. CNC machinery is quite expensive and getting the shop owner to dedicate machine time for Miha's mold making might not be possible. We'll have to wait and see what he works out.

Brian

[Mohillbilly]

Mod 3 looks like a good'n to me. I'd need two, four holers, in brass. what dia. was settled on? .358, or .360 ?

[happy7]

I have PMed to Mihec asking if he could put us on the list on his website since I think the design is pretty well finalized with the MOD 3 Drawing. Mihec gets so many messages, hopefully he will have time to answer. I think we have shown sufficient interest that Mihec will make the mold, but I am going to try to find out from him what we need to do to get on the list.

As far as diameter goes, I think .360 is good for me. What does everyone else want. We can get Mihec to do two diameters if necessary.

[HeavyMetal]

What are the tolerences Mihec can hold?

My plan is for a S&W 52 so .358 / .359 works for me. However I do know the "wheelie's" out there most likely will want a .360 to .361.

If MiHec can do two different Diameters then that's great if not I figure .360 can split the difference. I have dies to do three different sizing steps if I need to.

[mookyking]

I would buy one or two of these, would like 4 cavity, brass, .360 diameter

[blasternaz]

The Speer HBWC has a crimp groove on the nose, allowing it be gas checked for reverse seating. this eliminates the "blow the nose out" problem with plain nosed HBWC's. Other than that, most WC's are crimped over the front shoulder, allowing them to be used in semi's like the AMU or S&W 52.

If you really want a crimp groove, up the weight to 168 grains and make it a button nosed design. Works great as a small game bullet!

If done in a 4 or more cavity mold, I'd be in for one of these. Flat nosed, 0.360 to be used in both revo's and semi's and single lube groove, just in case I really want to run them thru a sizer.

Thanks!

L. Mike

[HeavyMetal]

So this is a shameless bump to see if I can get fresh info on the GB

[happy7]

I have PMed Mihec again to ask if he can give us any idea where we are in line.

[practical_man]

Did we settle on a weight and diameter? .360 and 148 gr works for me.

[Mohillbilly]

ba da bump bump

[hamour]

You might look at Swede Nelson's NOE RG-4 moulds. They are aluminum and come in 4 shot versions.

I think this would fit your needs.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=648937&postcount=50

Hank

[mookyking]

You might look at Swede Nelson's NOE RG-4 moulds. They are aluminum and come in 4 shot versions.

I think this would fit your needs.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=648937&postcount=50

Hank

this thread is regarding a hollow base HB mold, not a hollow point...

[hamour]

I was just pointing out that NOE's RG-4 mould is easily converted to what you wished to do. The HBWC would be a nose pour cut with the pins providing the hollow base.

It is a hollow point system already in production by the maker, no different than Miha's brass cramer system he is making.

This was an option I though people might be interested in and yes I know you are discussing a Hollow Base Wad Cutter (HBWC).

I have no connection to either maker, and have purchased products from both, just pointing out an option that you may wish to consider.

Hank

[happy7]

I did consider this, but my main objection is that the bottom of the mold is not flat. This is a problem both for preheat with a hot plate, and for use with a mold guide on a bottom pour. So I prefer the Cramer design and I guess for myself I am prepared to wait for it, especially since Miha has agreed to do a four cavity for us.

[HeavyMetal]

Good to know I'm not the only one paying attention to this thread.

I've seen Swede's molds, Pictures anyway, and think they are a great idea "but" yes might be a bit tough to get to sit flat any place to pre heat.

Good price and well thought out design. In a design I want wouldn't hesitate to purchase one.

[HeavyMetal]

So do we have any news?

[happy7]

No news yet. It would be great if Mihec would post and give us an idea of where we are in line, but I don't know if he really has a line as such. For instance the 40 cal cramer mold was supposed to be at the top of the line four or five molds ago and still hasn't been made. I have asked him a couple times for an idea when he will make the mold. At present he is putting out molds at a slow pace. Hopefully he will find some more CNC machines and be able to pick up the pace a bit.

[Hardcast]

Gentlemen,

Are hollow base wadcutter that much better than cast flat base wadcutters, or double end wadcutters? I have been using Star soft swaged hollowbase wadcutters for years, and they were so cheap I could not possibly justify casting wadcutters, even with Lee's 6 cavity flat base wadcutter mold. However, I believe Star is out of business now so when I run out of my current stock, I'll need a new source. So, has anyone done any testing to see if the hollow base makes that much difference? Would these (cast of soft alloy) run through a Star lubsizer?

[Christian for Israel]

45 2.1 shows his drawing/engineering prowess again!

I love "Modified #3"! I'll take it!

When can I send the money?

i agree...put me down for one!

[happy7]

Apparently the group buys have to be updated regularly or they expire. So here is an update. We are still waiting for Mihec to give us a place in line. He is currently working on the 41 mag and then will make the 500 HP. After that, there are still a lot of molds he is planning to do but I don't think any has a certain place in line. Hopefully, we can get in line somewhere. Let's see some action on this thread and let Mihec see we are still interested.

[mookyking]

I'm still interested

[HeavyMetal]

As am I.

To the point I actually discussed modifiying a 4 cav 35863 by cutting it for cramer style HB pins and removing all but one of the lube grooves with Eric at HPmolds.

Price was stiff but delivery time was darn short!

Christmas bonus is a coming, wonder who's getting a piece of it?

[MiHec]

Now we should move much faster.
Here is dedicated (my own) CNC. LINK (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=738288&postcount=299)

[practical_man]

Still very interested in this. What is the final design diameter and weight? Is a 4 cavity mold an option?

Thanks,
John

[twocool4u]

I would be very interested it this if you could gascheck the front of the boolit. That would make it a very interesting mold.

[Mohillbilly]

I could live with a GC front and the Hollow base, flip it and shoot it either way, or just neglect the check and shoot cheap.... Four hole would be better if it can be done.......

[Beerd]

'nuther bump

[mookyking]

any word on progress of this?

[happy7]

All I know is that we were not in the lastest round of cherries the Mihec purchased. I wish I had better news. Mihec, can you give us an idea of where you have us in line? Please?

[MiHec]

Working on it.....
Here is something to look at.
Pins will be reversible so you can cast Hollow base or Plain base.

I will try to keep this one under 1 Kg (Whole package). If I can't do that the price of shippment will be 22 USD. I'm on very thin ice here (talking about grams).


Also price for something like this will be 120 USD.

[happy7]

Looks Great! I will be willing to pay extra shipping, if necessary.

[twocool4u]

I would rather have a heavier mold than a lighter one.

[hicard]

Instead of a beveled top (bottom) I'd like a gascheck capable top so I can use it backwards with a gascheck on the bottom.

[Romeoburbs]

This sounds good to me. The more cavities the better 4-6. Most likely will commit when I see the specs and price.
Gene Burbary

[HeavyMetal]

Still watching, still waiting!

[happy7]

We are on the list of upcoming group buys on the MP website!

[bgokk]

We are on the list of upcoming group buys on the MP website!

:holysheep:-P That's great!

Now all I have to do pick some money off the secret tree.[smilie=l:

I'm on board with MiHec for two other of his excellent moulds.

bgokk

[Mohillbilly]

I do like the idea of a GC/button nose instead of a BB.

[happy7]

I do like the idea of a GC/button nose instead of a BB.

Me too.

[HeavyMetal]

Interesting to see how this thread is moving around on the design.

Gas check idea sounds good on "paper" but in reality I don't think you would gain anything but annoyance and cost with a gas check added.

My thought on this gas check idea is so a reloader may "push" the velocity of the HBWC loaded upside down.

Question is how much velocity do you think you can get? Of course I am thinking we're talking about a 38 special load, most likely in a J frame 2 inch snubbie.

If so pushing a 148 grain boolit past 900 FPS isn't going to happen. If you do manage it it will be real hard on the gun and I think you'll have issues with the boolit coming apart while expanding.

I just took a look in my old Speer number 8 manual because it lists factory loads fired in real guns not test barrels! If you have the manual it's pages 334 and 335.

The 146 grain JHP Speer load clocks 869 FPS in a 2 inch Smith.

The original Hydra Shock 38 snubbie load was an HBWC loaded upside down and moved at about 700 FPS. Controlled, predictable, expansion is what made that round, and it's company, a name in the industry!

The design never used a gas check and, at these velocities, a lead boolit doesn't need one!

If you feel the need to add a gas check: Useing the bevel nose, with a soft alloy, will allow you to "swage" one on in your lube sizer if you use a nose punch, designed to fit in the HBWC cavity, to push it into your sizer.

I will also mention that once you get into "nose" shapes this will all have to happen under the sprue plate not at the bottom of the cavity.

This means very thin metal, right under the sprue plate, and an easily damaged mold. If I pay 120 bucks for a mold I don't want to have to worry about "bending" it while I use it.

Just food for thought guys!

[bgokk]

The design never used a gas check and, at these velocities, a lead boolit doesn't need one!

Just food for thought guys!

I loaded the Speer 148 gr. HBWC backwards years ago and it shot well out to 25 yds. The load was 5.0 gr. of Unique seated to the bottom lube grove(remember it's inverted). I don't have chrono info but at 15 yards it would split the seam on a water filled Bulleye powder can. This was a large #10 size can 3# IIRC. The following is from my old records
Speer HBWC 148 Gr. Unique 5.0 Gr. CCI 500 To Bot. LubGr Med. crimp 811 FPS(Speer manual} 216 FP inverted bullet, good expansion,

[happy7]

To clarify, I am more interested in a button or flat nose, but not too interested in a bevel nose.

[leas327]

I am very interested in this mold design but at this point I am not even sure what I would be buying. If what we are buying is what Mihec posted in #108 I am o.k. with that. If it is more like the original that was used to start this thread I am o.k. with that too. This design needs to be finalized so people can figure out if they want it or not and we can get a quote and a spot in line from Mihec. I don't think that we are going to find a compromise that makes everyone happy so we need to get a final design made and it will be a take it or leave it kind of thing.

[Mohillbilly]

I figured a hollow base out of a Cobra, or police positive, then turn it around and put a check on the button nose,loaded down, and use it out of the 10 inch Max or 12 inch Automag with a Big hollow out front...I'd go more for shipping if nessary.

[HeavyMetal]

The cad drawing posted for us to look at in post 108 was, at least I thought, the "finished" mold concept.

Still waiting for Mehic to let us know we can place an orderfor this design.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I would like to express interest in this mold. Thank you.

[slowlead]

This is an ideal application for a cramer type mould and a great bullet. Please put me on the list. Any idea what the average production capability per hour for a 4 cavity versus a 2 cavity cramer mould would be. Tom

[Suo Gan]

I have been watching this and am interested.

[BSkerj]

I am also interested

[Johnny_Cyclone]

I'm in on this, but need some clarification.

We are talking about:

Post: #65 ?
Picture: Modified 3 ?
4 cav Brass Mold Blocks ?
With: Hollowbase ?
change pins and run Plain Base ?
Diameter: .360?

Is the nose beveled? It looks like it, but not a deal breaker.

Also, are we going with the square grooves or the rounded?

I may be new to casting, but I do enjoy the smoothness in operating a mold with rounded lube grooves...when pins aren't assisting me in removing the boolit from the cavity. So I wondered about the grooves if I decided to run the plain base pins...if available?

Anyway, just those few questions..and a bump to the top...

Now set me straight.

Thanks,
Johnny C.

Is it strange that I like rounded lube groves, but not so much a bevel on the nose...

[MiHec]

I'm in on this, but need some clarification.

We are talking about:

Post: #65 ?
Picture: Modified 3 ?
4 cav Brass Mold Blocks ?
With: Hollowbase ?
change pins and run Plain Base ?
Diameter: .360?

Is the nose beveled? It looks like it, but not a deal breaker.

Also, are we going with the square grooves or the rounded?

I may be new to casting, but I do enjoy the smoothness in operating a mold with rounded lube grooves...when pins aren't assisting me in removing the boolit from the cavity. So I wondered about the grooves if I decided to run the plain base pins...if available?

Anyway, just those few questions..and a bump to the top...

Now set me straight.

Thanks,
Johnny C.

Is it strange that I like rounded lube groves, but not so much a bevel on the nose...


I will review all of these and post info here.

I'm ordering a cherry on monday so this one will be in production soon.
By the way - I'm not sure about 4 cavity :???:

[happy7]

I, for one, will not buy a two cavity. From the first, this was proposed as a four cavity mold. Unlike other hollowpoint designs, it is not a specialty bullet meant for limited shooting for self defense or hunting, but its purpose is to got to the range and shoot a lot of them. If this is going to be a two cavity, then I will get someone else to make a four cavity but I really don't want to do that. Please, at least offer the four cavity as an option!

[69daytona]

Miha, Anychance you can make this a cramer mold in Aluminum? then it should be light enough to make a 4 or 6 cavity and still keep mailing costs down.
If so I am in for a 4 or six cavity and like Happy7 would prefer a flat or button nose.

[bgokk]

I, for one, will not buy a two cavity. From the first, this was proposed as a four cavity mold. Unlike other hollowpoint designs, it is not a specialty bullet meant for limited shooting for self defense or hunting, but its purpose is to got to the range and shoot a lot of them. If this is going to be a two cavity, then I will get someone else to make a four cavity but I really don't want to do that. Please, at least offer the four cavity as an option!

4 cavity or not intrerested.

[49Dragoon]

I would be in for one in 4 or 6 cavites as well!

[hunter64]

Well it looks like we hit the 1 year mark for this GB from the first post till today.

Since there is no list yet, just wanted to say that even the 2 cavity is ok for me but 4 cavity would be better.

[Rhoa4396]

I think someone else pointed out that this would be a bullet that would be shot alot ... hence, it would make far more sense as a 4 cavity than a two cavity.

Ken R
========

[machinisttx]

I would like a brass 4 cavity and I'm willing to pay the extra shipping costs. I do not like aluminum.

I might be interested in a 2 cavity, but I'd really prefer the 4.

[blue_cat]

Interested, waiting to hear more....

[DukeInMaine]

I would want one in 148 grain.

[Edubya]

I, for one, will not buy a two cavity. From the first, this was proposed as a four cavity mold. Unlike other hollowpoint designs, it is not a specialty bullet meant for limited shooting for self defense or hunting, but its purpose is to got to the range and shoot a lot of them. If this is going to be a two cavity, then I will get someone else to make a four cavity but I really don't want to do that. Please, at least offer the four cavity as an option!
I've been using one or more two-cavity Cramer style moulds for several years now and Would never even consider more. The two-cavity is very handy and produces volume enough for a HP. With two spuds to keep hot and drawing the lead as fast as I can, my moulds turnout over 400 per hour. I think that the four holer would start giving trouble due to cooling, and would certainly give inconsistent boolits.
EW

[happy7]

I've been using one or more two-cavity Cramer style moulds for several years now and Would never even consider more. The two-cavity is very handy and produces volume enough for a HP. With two spuds to keep hot and drawing the lead as fast as I can, my moulds turnout over 400 per hour. I think that the four holer would start giving trouble due to cooling, and would certainly give inconsistent boolits.
EW

I wonder if you have you actually used a 4 cavity cramer, or are you just speculating? NOE and BRP both make four cavity HP molds very successfully. Eric at hollowpointmolds.com will do even more cavities. I'm guessing that if it caused a problem, they wouldn't be making these. I myself can see no logical reason why more cavities would not stay hot just as good as less cavities.

You say volume enough for an HP. That is my point exactly. This is not an HP, but an HB, a bullet designed for shooting at targets, or in other words, shooting a lot of in one range sitting. What I am pushing for is a choice of two or four cavities. That way those who want two cavities can be happy, and those that must have four, like me, can be happy too.

[Edubya]

Well, I have to admit, I've never used a 4 cavity Cramer style mould. Have you?
I do know the two cavity and I've got several 4 cavity as well as 6 and 10. I'm just speculating, but it's based on what I have experienced and didn't mean to get anybody rilled, just wanted to share my experiences.
Ew

[happy7]

I apoligize if I sounded riled. But I have been campaigning hard for a four cavity and don't want to see it jeapordized. I have not used a 4 cavity cramer, but I have a four cavity HP mold from NOE (38) as well as one from BRP (9mm) and both work fine. The system is very similar to the cramer, so I would think it would work fine in the cramer as well.

[Duckhunter]

I am very interested; espically since my dollar is worth so much more now that it was a few days ago. What would a 4c cost??

[MiHec]

I will have prototyping week now.

I will do some 4 cavity and 3 cavity cramers and test them.

[happy7]

oooohhhh. I cant wait to see pictures of a four cavity!!!!!!

[happy7]

Mihec,

Can you report on how the prototyping went? Thanks! Can't wait to see pics!

[Mohillbilly]

Bump-ity bump

[hicard]

Is the nose going to be bevel or gc design? I would like gc design. I'm out on this one.

[MiHec]

Is the nose going to be bevel or gc design? I would like gc design.

bevel.

Sorry but I all ready have cherry. No prototypes yet...:oops:

[MiHec]

What do you think about this extra holes for weight reduction??

[45 2.1]

What do you think about this extra holes for weight reduction??

As long as the brass mold is comparable in weight to a like Lyman iron 4 cavity 38 WC mold, it should not cause too many problems............... except for all us old decrepit geezers. :mrgreen:

[bgokk]

What do you think about this extra holes for weight reduction??

Will this extra air contact in the area of the hp pins cause it to be more difficult to keep the pins hot enough for good fillout and release of boolits?

Just a thought. ????

[MiHec]

Will this extra air contact in the area of the hp pins cause it to be more difficult to keep the pins hot enough for good fillout and release of boolits?

Just a thought. ????

I don't think this will be the issue.

[MiHec]

In this configuration it weights 0,8 kg.

[Rhoa4396]

Will this extra air contact in the area of the hp pins cause it to be more difficult to keep the pins hot enough for good fillout and release of boolits?

Just a thought. ????

I also was wondering about the extra cooling of the pins since cold pins have been a bit of a problem, but I also wonder if there will be a problem with the molds warping because of the extra irregular areas bored into it (the lightining holes). I understand there would probably be a greater shipping charge for the extra weight if not lightened since these are 4 cavity instead of only 2 cavity but would hate to see new unforseen problems develop.

I'm just sort of thinking out loud here wondering how the extra holes will affect the molds in use.

Ken
======

[happy7]

As I stated before, I would be willing myself to pay the extra shipping. Can you offer an option of a solid, square block, and then the lightened one with the lopped corners and lightning holes? Then people can choose if they want a solid one or the other to save on shipping.

[MiHec]

As I stated before, I would be willing myself to pay the extra shipping. Can you offer an option of a solid, square block, and then the lightened one with the lopped corners and lightning holes? Then people can choose if they want a solid one or the other to save on shipping.

Of course.....

That's why I posted here. To discuss thinks.

I'm open to suggestion and ideas.

[mookyking]

How much extra shipping (to USA) would there be for a non-lightning cut 4 cavity mold? Would be willing to pay extra shipping within reason...

[MiHec]

How much extra shipping (to USA) would there be for a non-lightning cut 4 cavity mold? Would be willing to pay extra shipping within reason...

I think it is about 20 USD, but I must double check.

P.s. info is on current exchange rate

[Highland Drifter]

I would be willing to pay extra shipping for a 4 cavity with
square corners and no lightning holes.

Brian

[Rhoa4396]

I would be willing to pay extra shipping for a 4 cavity with
square corners and no lightning holes.

Brian

Highland Drifter,

That is what I was thinking also, square corners and no lightning holes might be worth the extra charge..... and as a bonus, I can tell my wife I'm 'down here lifting weights" when she asks "what are you doing?' :mrgreen:

Ken
======

[MiHec]

weight of this configuration is 0.88 kg


No holes and no chamfers

[HeavyMetal]

Waiting to see what the finished cherry looks like, would want a 4 cavity, mold material not an issue but brass does hold the heat better!

Once I see how many cavities and cherry design I will decide if I'm still in or not.

[happy7]

Looks real good to me.



weight of this configuration is 0.88 kg


No holes and no chamfers

[.357]

This is mighty tempting!

[uncleskippy]

I also agree:

Looks real good to me.

[Edubya]

I see a lot of interest in this but have not seen a list. Did I overlook it or is there not one?
I want to be on the list for a four cavity squared and no lightening holes. I want to keep as much heat as possible up next to those pins. I've used a H&G 10 cavity that weighs 9lbs, I can certainly use a 2 pounder.

EW

[HeavyMetal]

I think there's still to many questions, and lack of details, for a list at this point.

Heck I've been following this thread for a year and haven't seen it move past the point were at now!

I do think a design has been decided on but thats it!

So when we get a solid "this is it" I'll see if I want in!

[Edubya]

I currently have a double cavity SACO 397 that was converted to a Cramer style by Eric and it will shoot holes in a 8" paper plate at 25yds. all day long. And that's out of a 1-7/8" Smith 642.
The grooves are micro and look much like the tumble lube design. I don't like the Alox so I end up pan lubing. I have two Star luberisizers and a SAECO, but with this boolit it's easier to pan lube. I seat them flush and feel that there is little to no need for a crimp groove. If I go much over 750 FPS they'll tumble at 25. BTW, my boolits weigh 138 due to the hollow butt.

EW

[HeavyMetal]

My BIL is loaning me a 358395 HBWC single cavity mold he's had for years and never used, no 357 no 38 spec.

I'll at least get a chance to play with some and see what they can do pending this GB getting it's act together.

Who knows I may learn something before were ready to start the GB and make a reasonable intelligent contribution to the site.

[Edubya]

I was just looking at the moulds from SAECO: http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/88-bullet-moulds-charts
Their #348 is a DBBWC and it has a single, large lube groove with crimp grooves on both ends. It is a 148 gr. I think that without the double bevel base, it could be HP'ed. I get kinda worried when thinking about a single large groove with the hollow point coming within close distance to the groove. How about two smaller grooves at equal distance from the ends. You could use the lube sizer just run it through twice, once from each end (if you don't have a sizer die with multiple holes). Or, at the velocities that these will be running, Alox might be the ideal lube. :-?

EW

[MiHec]

This is final design for the boolit and the mold.

Cherry is all ready cut.

I will open order page on my web page shortly and post a link here

[Rhoa4396]

Looking good to me.... do you know what the diameter and weight of the bullet will be?

Ken
========

[Highland Drifter]

Looks good Miha. I'll have to clean the dust off that old 5 screw S&W 38 Special. :Fire:

Brian

[blue_cat]

I am definitly in... this ranks a 10 on the cool factor... plus its a four cavity.

[MiHec]

LINK to the order page




Order page (click on me) (http://www.mp-molds.com/index.php?pr=358_395HBWC_order_page&nosessionkill=1)

[MiHec]

Looking good to me.... do you know what the diameter and weight of the bullet will be?

Ken
========

Choose between .358 or .360. weight with Hollow base 148 gn.

[Highland Drifter]

Ordered 1 .360.

Brian

[mookyking]

Ordered a .360.

Would like to add an extra set of hollow point pins from a previous buy, "2 cavity MiHec .452 - 200gn Cramer". I think they were about €5.80 extra last time, is this correct? I assume they can be shipped with this current order for the same shipping. I plan to grind off the points so I can cast solids without having reversed pins sticking out the bottom...

[MiHec]

Ordered a .360.

Would like to add an extra set of hollow point pins from a previous buy, "2 cavity MiHec .452 - 200gn Cramer". I think they were about €5.80 extra last time, is this correct? I assume they can be shipped with this current order for the same shipping. I plan to grind off the points so I can cast solids without having reversed pins sticking out the bottom...

....but you would like to use them in .452-200HP, right??

[mookyking]

....but you would like to use them in .452-200HP, right??

Yes, that is the idea...
thanks

[slowlead]

I ordered 1 .460 mould. I noticed that 5 sided pins are included. If so that will make a dandy 357 magmun mid velocity hollow point bullet that will hold together,but expand at higher velocty.

PS: I just tried my 358640 mould and it works flawlessly. Thanks Miha, Tom

[HeavyMetal]

O.K.!

I see we actually got a GB sign up going.

I will order one 358 4 banger and be real glad to get it!

Next question's are: how long a wait and when do we pay?

Since I was asked for my e mail addy I suspect the info will be sent to me but just wanted it plain for everyone else.

[Rhoa4396]

O.K.!

I see we actually got a GB sign up going.

I will order one 358 4 banger and be real glad to get it!

Next question's are: how long a wait and when do we pay?

Since I was asked for my e mail addy I suspect the info will be sent to me but just wanted it plain for everyone else.

Hi Heavy Metal,

I can't speak for Miha, but I have made 3 purchases so far, so this one is my fourth and I can only tell you my experiences from the past. If this goes like all the others have, then Miha will take your order and make your mold. After the mold is finished he will ask for payment to be sent and will then ship the mold when payment's received. As to how long it takes for the mold to arrive.... I have a sneaking suspicion that is more dependent on it going thru customs than anything else. So far I have been "very" happy with everything and expect you will be too.

[smilie=2:Ken

[MiHec]

Hi Heavy Metal,

I can't speak for Miha, but I have made 3 purchases so far, so this one is my fourth and I can only tell you my experiences from the past. If this goes like all the others have, then Miha will take your order and make your mold. After the mold is finished he will ask for payment to be sent and will then ship the mold when payment's received. As to how long it takes for the mold to arrive.... I have a sneaking suspicion that is more dependent on it going thru customs than anything else. So far I have been "very" happy with everything and expect you will be too.

[smilie=2:Ken

Right...

[HeavyMetal]

Cool!

Never a doubt as to quality just wanting to have my ducks in a row come payment time.

We all know what the economy has been like for the last year or so and I've learned to plan ahead whenever possible.

[MiHec]

LINK to the order page




Order page (click on me) (http://www.mp-molds.com/index.php?pr=358_395HBWC_order_page&nosessionkill=1)


16 orders until now....

[happy7]

I am pretty sure I ordered already?

[MiHec]

Orders until now

[happy7]

Are you doing this mold now? You just finished the 429640, right?

[MiHec]

Are you doing this mold now? You just finished the 439640, right?

Yes, it will be on the machine soon.

[oldfartz]

I`d like a 360. Thankx

[happy7]

OldFartz, scroll up a few posts to the link for orders. That takes you to Mihecs webpage. Fill in your order there. Otherwise you are not on the list.

[happy7]

Yes, it will be on the machine soon.

Great news. I have wanted this mold for a long time and it is finally coming together. I'm especially happy that it will be a four cavity. It will be an exciting day when it shows up in the mail box.

[GLL]

MiHec:

I just ordered a second 0.360" mould !

Jerry

[HeavyMetal]

yahooooo!

[MiHec]

As we speak I'm machining sprues. I all ready have pins and top punches. Top punches will be flat ones.

[MiHec]

19 molds ordered so far...

[MiHec]

LINK to the order page




Order page (click on me) (http://www.mp-molds.com/index.php?pr=358_395HBWC_order_page&nosessionkill=1)

[MiHec]

Molds are on the machine.....

Last call to order!!

[hicard]

Miha, although I wanted the GC design, I can't turn one of your beautiful moulds down. Especially when you are willing to experiment with a 4 cavity. I just ordered one in .358.

[swiss 96/11]

Just ordered a 4-c .360 Dia.

[terryt]

Hi:

Count me in for a 4, or 6 cavity.

Thanks,

Terry

[happy7]

terryt,

scroll up to the link for ordering. You have to click that link and order from his website. Posting to this thread will not get your order placed.

[MiHec]

CLOSED!!! 4. sept. 2010

There will be some over order molds.

[cuzinbruce]

Hi Miha,
I saw there would be some extras so I ordered one on your site.
Thanks,
Bruce

[MiHec]

Please check this list. If you are double ordered please PM me so I can correct this.

[ddeaton]

I ordered 1 of each size also. Sorry, I havent been keeping up on the site lately.

[MiHec]

I ordered 1 of each size also. Sorry, I havent been keeping up on the site lately.

You are on for one of each

[MiHec]

Molds are finished!!

I will try to post some pictures tomorrow when I will pack them.

[HeavyMetal]

Yahoo!!!

I'll be looking for an e mail soon.

[MiHec]

As I stated above ;))

[happy7]

Absolutely Gorgeous. Destined to be a classic.

[happy7]

So, Miha, can you use the same cherry and make a 44 caliber now?

[hicard]

WOW, WOW, WOW And I almost skipped this one. I would.ve regretted that move. Miha, I see a very rich future for you and maybe a second job for me, to be able to afford these wonderful moulds. And yes, a 44 next and then a 45. Invoice received and funds sent 9/16/10

[Rhoa4396]

So, Miha, can you use the same cherry and make a 44 caliber now?

Hmm..... and a .41. and a .45 ..... hmmm and then we get to my .50 front stuffer...

Ken R
=====

[MiHec]

So, Miha, can you use the same cherry and make a 44 caliber now?

You mean same profile - just change the cal.?

[MiHec]

First invoices are out!


Another batch will be out tomorrow( for those who ordered .360 cal)

[cuzinbruce]

Email received and payment sent, 9/15. Should be soon now! Thanks!

[happy7]

You mean same profile - just change the cal.?

Yes, that is what I mean

[HeavyMetal]

PM sent to Miha, looks like I get to wait for a paypal account confirmation???

[GLL]

I agree with happy7 & hicard that a 44 & 45 should be run next week ! :) :)

Jerry

[slowlead]

Paypal sent, The moulds look great as always. I am not sure using the same profile in 45 or 44 caliber will work as well as in 38 caliber. I personally cannot remember seeing a 45 or 44 target hollow base bullet of that design. However if the center of gravity is pushed forward due to the hollow base, it should be adaquately stable and accurate for close range target work. Depending on weight, a reversed hollow base bullet would sort of copy the british .455 manstopper bullet for defense too. Tom

[Rhoa4396]

I personally cannot remember seeing a 45 or 44 target hollow base bullet of that design. However if the center of gravity is pushed forward due to the hollow base, it should be adaquately stable and accurate for close range target work. Depending on weight, a reversed hollow base bullet would sort of copy the british .455 manstopper bullet for defense too.

I' curious, if the same cutter is used for the profile and it was set to cut both .412 and a .431 bullets, what would the weights of these be. I understand there would have to be different hollowbase pins cut at new angles but any idea the weights?

Ken R

[MiHec]

I' curious, if the same cutter is used for the profile and it was set to cut both .412 and a .431 bullets, what would the weights of these be. I understand there would have to be different hollowbase pins cut at new angles but any idea the weights?

Ken R

I will draw something up and see.

What range do you want?

[Rhoa4396]

I will draw something up and see.

What range do you want?

I was just curious about something actually the same length as these HBWC's but to calibers (412 & .431). I'd expect them to be on the light side unless the hollow base pin were reversed making a double base wadcutter. Cut to scale for the .41 and for the .44. I'd guess that would come somewhere around 210-215gr for the 41 and maybe 245 or 250 for the 44 unless the bases were reversed making them even heavier.

Ken R

[happy7]

I would be happy with anythign between about 180-250 on the 44, but would prefer abotu 200 grains I think.

[GLL]

Here is "about" what MiHec’s .358-395HBWC would look like in .44 & .45 using the same cutter profile.

Jerry

.38 HBWC original
http://www.fototime.com/FE73A0AAA9D2E28/standard.jpg

.44 HBWC
http://www.fototime.com/7823377BC7AC2AD/standard.jpg

.45HBWC
http://www.fototime.com/7823377BC7AC2AD/standard.jpg

[happy7]

Looks really good to me. I'm in, at least for a 44. Are you interested Mihec?

[GLL]

MiHec:

I would also be interested in the .44 and look forward to seeing a drawing and weight !

I ordered two of the .358-395 versions and plan on modifying one ! :) :)

Jerry

[MiHec]

Yes I'm interested. As I say I will draw something up and let you know about weights. Just give me a day or two ;)


Also


ALL invoices are out!!!

If you missing one please PM me.

[HeavyMetal]

Anybody have an idea of shipping time?

I'm not sure how these will be shipped and am just curious.

[MiHec]

Anybody have an idea of shipping time?

I'm not sure how these will be shipped and am just curious.

10-14 days. Sometimes sooner sometimes later.
I ship next day (except for weekends).

[hicard]

Heavy Metal, usually I get mine in California in about 11 days, the last mould was really fast at 7 days but that was unusual.

[JoeG52]

I just got my mold today! Looks great, I just don't have time to try it out right now, maybe this week end.

[HeavyMetal]

Miha most likely shipped mine this last Monday since I had to wrestle with PayPal to gt an account open and that didn't happen until Saturday.

So I figure to have the mold about the second of October not bad not bad.

Looking forward to my first Mihec mold, seen pic's of many others but this is the first that I actually wanted or wasn't a dupe of something I already owned.

[cuzinbruce]

My mould arrived today, 9/22, in NJ. Nice piece of work! Thanks!
Bruce

[Rhoa4396]

Mine arrived today, 24th Sept and they look great. I can't wait to get to casting and see what I get out of these.

Looking at it, I'm tempted to try casting with a flat base instead of a hollow base (or not), reversing the bullet in the sizer and trying to seat a gas check on what would then amount to a beveled base.

Ken
==========:cbpour:

[45 2.1]

I was just curious about something actually the same length as these HBWC's but to calibers (412 & .431). I'd expect them to be on the light side unless the hollow base pin were reversed making a double base wadcutter. Cut to scale for the .41 and for the .44. I'd guess that would come somewhere around 210-215gr for the 41 and maybe 245 or 250 for the 44 unless the bases were reversed making them even heavier. Ken R

With the same profile and length, the 41 would weigh 194 gr, with hollow base and the 44 would weigh 214 gr. with hollow base. I've already sent the dwgs to MiHec. I would expect he could use the same cutter, but that i'm not sure about.

[Rhoa4396]

With the same profile and length, the 41 would weigh 194 gr, with hollow base and the 44 would weigh 214 gr. with hollow base. I've already sent the dwgs to MiHec. I would expect he could use the same cutter, but that i'm not sure about.


Thank you. I don't know about others here, but I think those would be nice. Trying to get the cost past my better half might not be so nice though. :bigsmyl2: (GRIN)

Ken
=====

[phaessler]

Watching for a 44 mold myself....

Any extras on the 359-360's? Somehow I missed this one

Pete

[hicard]

Got mine today, thanks Miha again for a fine mould. Hope you decide to make one in 44 and 45.

[Salmon-boy]

Mine showed up yesterday.. Some quality time with a toothbrush and assembly went flawlessly..

Now I just have to find some time to cast!!!

Miha, exceptional work as always.. I REALLY like the 4 cavity!

[HeavyMetal]

Mine arived today and it is everything I expected it to be.

I will get a chance to cast with it during the up coming week end.

Miha thanks for nicely done work!

[slowlead]

Each MP mould seems to get better, Bullets seem to drop right out when the mould temperature is kept up. The only problem i had was running out of metal in the lee pot and waiting for more metal to melt. I cast 709 perfect bullets in 2 hours and 10 minutes, which is not bad for a new mould. I can cast about 16 to 20 bullets a minute when everthigs working right. Thanks for the excellent mould Miha, Tom

[Rhoa4396]

Each MP mould seems to get better, Bullets seem to drop right out when the mould temperature is kept up. The only problem i had was running out of metal in the lee pot and waiting for more metal to melt. I cast 709 perfect bullets in 2 hours and 10 minutes, which is not bad for a new mould. I can cast about 16 to 20 bullets a minute when everthigs working right. Thanks for the excellent mould Miha, Tom

Picture..... we need pictures!

Ken
:coffeecom

[leas327]

looks like I missed out on this one. I was too busy shooting as it was too hot to worry about casting. Miha can you let me know if there are any extras, I would like one if there are.

[Highland Drifter]

I didn't get mine yet. It must have been loaded on the handcart bound for Utah.

[swiss 96/11]

Will be casting with mine this week,as always his moulds are a work of art,but so are BaBore,NOE,and the master mould maker LBT. We are so lucky to now have these quality mould makers to choose from.THANKS TO ALL OF THEM!!!!!!

[blue_cat]

I know what you mean Highland Drifter, I'm in the backwoods of kentucky and it can take a while.