.358 win still leading up?

[TREERAT]

:groner:still getting alot of lead in my .358 win ruger frontier, 1 in 12 twist. bullet is WDWW, 358430 lyman, lubed in carnuba red, and sized .360, with 11g red dot, loaded into lands. I sluged the bore and got .358 then sluged the chanber end and got .359. so which would be the next best step to try? more powder to obturate more or cast up some ACWW for more obturation? I just feel I need more obturate, is there something I am not thinking of?:killingpc

[Bret4207]

Is this a new rifle? How many rounds through it? Sometimes the barrel will be too rough to do well with lead till it get's smoothed out. Or it could be fouled with a lot of copper if it has been shot much. A thorough cleaning will solve that. You can also try shooting a few groups with the boolits unsized. Sometimes half a thou' makes the difference.

Obturation can be your pal or your enemy. I'd try the unsized and see how fat they are. Maybe they drop .361 and that'll make the difference. I'd also check my sized boolits to make sure the sizer is passing them at .360 and not .3592 or something like that.

It may sound backwards, but try seating them off the throat a bit and also try upping the charge a bit. You'll get obturation with WQWW even though they seem harder than ACWW, they are still ducticle.

4/0 steel wool removes lead FAST and does no damage to your barrel.

[Lloyd Smale]

you probably need to lap your barrel

[Junior1942]

Try a slower powder.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Is this the 150 or 195 gr. version? Being a plain base boolit, you may be pushing it just a bit too fast. Try starting about 8 gr. of Red Dot and working up.

If your bore is .358 and boolit is .360 there is no obturation to take place. Your boolit is being swages DOWN to bore size. Obturation only takes place when a boolit is smaller than bore dia. and gets "bumped up" by the pressure of the powder charge, or has a skirt (like a minnie ball or a HBWC) that gets pushed out into the rifling.

[runfiverun]

let me guess the leading is about 1' down the bbl.
the pressure is dropping off right about there. the boolit is relaxing and the red/lead is sticking to the bbl.
had the same problem with 10 grs of unique.
either get the pressure over with quickly or have enough behind the boolit to push it all the way down the bll.

[TREERAT]

I will try to answer all questions, with more detail: it is a new rifle. rifle has seen 50 full throttle 250g speer j bullets, 10 180g speer fn j bullets. then compleatly cleaned with ammonia to remove copper. has about 200 cast WDWW through it. about 125 of which have been 10.5 to 11 grain red dot - which has plenty of preasure to fully fire form ( sharpen up shoulder ) the 30-06 case's I made into .358 win. with, WDWW rifle has been totaly cleaned of lead after every 25-30 rnds. I did try 5744 from 21-28g with blowback on necks reducing with each increase of charge. (which should cover the slower powder idea) still leaded bad. ALL loads show NO pressure signs in the primers. when I said sized, I should have said as cast they drop from mold at .360x .359= 1 thou. out of round! and pan lubed. I have tryed 30 thou. jump- to into the lands. leading is full length of barrel. being that I only have 16 1/2 inch barrel I figured slow powder would need longer barrel to work, which is why I keep trying red dot. --- changes I am making now to try, I have lapped my mold to try to take the 1 thou. out of round out of it, and hopefully increase the size a small amount. but will have to cast some new bullets to see how well it worked. plus will cast some ACWW and 50/50 if I can come up with enough stick ons to make 50/50. I also plan to increase the charge 1/2g at a time up to 13g max buy Lymans book. I still beleive I am getting gas cutting from blow by. which if I understan can also occur with a rough bore and to hard of bullet? bore is clean no lead now so I am thinking about running about 150 more rnds of J bullets through it to hopfully smooth it up, then clean out all the copper and go to strickly cast from then on. hope I have not over loaded you with details, but I figure the more details you have the better you could help me!

[MtGun44]

I would think you need a bigger boolit. See if you can chamber a .361. for .308 cal
rifles I generally get better results with .311 over .309 or .310.

First thing I would do is try 16.0 2400 and 10.0 Unique, these are both known good
cast loads that by tweaking up or down a grain or two at a time have produced
excellent results in many rifles over the years.

Bill

[runfiverun]

have you tried a rifle boolit?

[Just Duke]

I would think you need a bigger boolit.
Bill

That's would I was thinking also.

[44mag1]

I have had no leading problems with my 358, I have only used gas checked bullets out of it, 255 and 200 grain. Ive been using 3031 335 and 748 and use the starting load for jacketed bullets for my charge. I doubt I have put 200 rounds through it since new [j and cast].

[Bret4207]

That PB may be the ultimate issue. Maybe a filler would help. Fatter/softer wont hurt to try since you're an experienced lead "taker outer" by now. I'm thinking it's a combo of the PB boolit and a new bore. That PB may never work above a certain speed, some rifles just do that.

[44man]

Could be a rough bore but if you just shoot a pile of jacketed down it you will not do a thing to help. You must remove any copper after EVERY shot for 20 or more shots. One bullet can lay down a layer of copper and the rest of the bullets no longer touch the steel.
Try a cleaner more gentle powder like 4759.
5744 can be very dirty and leave enough junk in the barrel to cause some leading. I got zero results with this powder in anything.
2400 might be better too but I find SR 4759 is the king for cast. It is extremely clean and my brass looks like new after being fired, I don't know why I tumble them. Accuracy is fabulous.
I think you are punching the boolits too hard with red dot. You will actually shorten the boolit before entering the rifling, might even ruin the grease grooves right off, shorten the nose and force the whole nose into the rifling. That is a lot of unlubed boolit in the bore.
Break in the barrel properly or fire lap it. Then smooth out the pressure curve.