Mold not dropping. What to try?

[trevj]

Mold is a 225415 Lyman Ideal single.

I ran about a thousand 225107's over the last few days and switched over to the 225415 that I picked up last weekend.

Got the mold up to temp, dealt with a tiny little bit of oil and dirt and started trying to get my rhythm going again.

Found that probably on in 20 would pop right out on mold opening. The rest required anything from a very light tweak to the side on the base of the bullet, all the way up to some considerable pressure on the base, to get it to pop free.

When run through a 225 sizer die, the material moved shows the bullet a bit larger across the seam than across the opposing sides of the mold (more metal squashed down at the seam), so I figured that the bullet is not hanging due to the mold shape, maybe.
As cast, the bullet measures .227" x .228". The .228" is across the part line of the mold. Material is WW+2% tin. When stuck, they would stick in either side with no apparent reason.

Anyone want to hazard a guess, or suggest where to look to fix it up?

Thanks!

I got 150 decent looking bullets out of this one, but very few dropped free on their own. Rapping the handles with a block of wood did not drop them any better.

Cheers
Trev

[Trey45]

Light a candle, hold the mold cavities over the flame just enough to smoke the cavities. This doesn't work so well on aluminum blocks. Wooden kitchen matches work on aluminum.

[Calamity Jake]

Take a close look for burrs around the locating pins and mating holes, if any burrs this can cause not only fairure to close but misalighnment of the mold halfs making the boolits stick.
Also with the mold removed from the handles, put the halfs together and try to twist them, if any movement then there is pin/hole problems meaning one pin sticking out more than the other, pinØ/holeØ mismatch and or ware of one or the other.

[trevj]

Alright! That's two things I'll take a close look at and I'll try the smoke as well.

Gotta dig out my Jewellers Loupe for a close look at the edges....

Cheers
Trev

[DLCTEX]

A #2 lead pencil applied to the cavities makes a good release agent, and a sharp pencil can get into the creases. After deburring and maybe spinning a boolit in the cavity with some Comet applied. Also check for flash on the base due to a bad sprue plate fit.

[jdgabbard]

After deburring and maybe spinning a boolit in the cavity with some Comet applied. Also check for flash on the base due to a bad sprue plate fit.

Or toothpaste. That is what worked for me. But eventually I went back with a boolit dipped in valve grinding compound. Lightly spun it for a few minutes. And it did the job wonderfully. I never have boolits stick in the mold. And if they do a gental rap on the hinge pin is all it takes.

EDIT: Btw, something I forgot to mention. I've had best results without smoking my molds. Instead I just make sure they are clean. After I "lapped" my molds they don't seem to require smoking. And I don't bother with it.

[snaggdit]

I had a few Lee aluminum molds that didn't drop well. I cast a few boolits then drilled a small hole on center in the base of the boolit. I took a finishing nail and used a hammer to flatten the end. I then gently hammered this spade end into the hole in the base of the boolit. I applied some polishing compound, dipped into water and placed the boolit into the mold (with sprue plate swung out of the way) and used my cordless drill to spin the boolit for 30 seconds or so. If using aluminum molds, you could also try carefully (lightly) scraping the mold cavity edges with a sharp knife to remove any lips from the cavities.

[trevj]

Well, a coupla things worked out for me today.

I had a couple really small, wire edge burrs along the edge of both sides of the cavity. I gave then a quick scrape of a knife blade, and rubbed them down to burnish the edges a bit with a round tool shank.

I found a small raised up edge, where the mold had whacked into something, causing a small impact rise. A stroke across a file (lightly!) cleaned off the offending area.

I found a little bit of play in the lower alignment pin. I set the mold onto a block of wheel weight alloy, and gave the pin a smack with a punch. Tightened that right up.

I tried a little metal polish, and paid particular attention to where the cavity got shinier.

Then I assembled everything, and smoked the mold a wee bit too much. That I eventually just gave up on, and gave the mold a good scrub down with a couple wood splinters that fit tightly into the mold.

The sprue plate is the same one I used on the 225107 mold that worked so well for me. It has had the entry countersunk to a sharp edge, and the bottom cleaned up on a flat surface and fine grit sanding sheet (3M 30 Micron plastic sheet, wet) until the edges of the hole were cleaned up.

All in all, it behaved much better! It did not drop free on it's own so much, but the slugs were held loosely enough that I could tip them out with the tip of my glove finger, pretty much the same as the previous mold.

Really needed to keep the pot temp up. I tried rolling back on the heat from 375-380 C (700 F +/-) down to 350 C (660F) and I could not keep a decent looking bullet dropping onto the table. When I cranked the heat back up, the bullets started looking good again.

Maybe it's me, but the only thing I really changed, was the pot temp, and it seemed to make a difference.

Keeping the mold warm was pretty easy at that point. Pour a really big button on top the sprue plate, wait for it to harden and go dull, then cut the sprue.

Cheers
Trev

[DLCTEX]

The smaller calibers do require more heat IMHO. The lighter boolits sometimes need a nudge as there is less weight for gravity to work on.

[35remington]

If smoking a mould, NEVER use a candle. This deposits wax on the cavity (the flame is burning because of the wax, and not all is combusted), since the soot is heavy with wax deposits.

This is a recipie for wrinkly bullets. Grease or wax does not belong in a mould cavity.

Only use a non paraffin dipped match or butane lighter for smoking.

You should NOT be poking the bullets out of the cavity with the tip of your finger, as this too can introduce contaminants into the cavity and prevent complete fill out. Casting gloves have dirt, soot, body oils, wax and grease on them. The cavity should be bone dry.

Use the old and time tried advice of tapping the hinge bolt on the handles with a stick or plastic mallet to free a slightly stuck bullet.

Keep your fingers and prying objects away from the cavity. This is a way to contaminate or deform the mould cavity.

[Echo]

+1 for 35Rem...

[trevj]

I tried the tapping routine. By the time I had whacked it enough to get the bullet free, the mold would cool enough that it caused even more issues.

I'll see what I can do next time I set up the gear, though. When I was casting, before I cleaned up some burrs, etc., I was using the edge of a screwdriver to slide the bullet out of the mold. Worked, but was slow, and was just one more tool to have to hold while working. With the other mold, I was using the tip of the gloved finger to slide the bullet out, and it was fast, and effective.

Casting at the rate I was, I found that anything that slowed me down caused issues with mold temperature.

The smoked mold was pretty early on in the process, and once I got the mold cleaned out, it was also up to heat. <shrug> All told, what I was doing was working OK for me. I got a bit over a thousand 225107's cast, and several hundred satisfactory 225415's that I am not ashamed of, even if I'm doing it wrong. :)

Cheers
Trev

[leftiye]

Try polishing (lapping) the cavities. Always makes them release the boolits smoothly for me. BTW, mine always drop when I let go of 'em. Not good fer molds though.

[trevj]

I really think it's mostly about the size of the lube grooves (ridges in the molds) compared to the diameter of the slug at this point. They need to be coerced into sliding directly sideways or they won't let go.

The flat nose on these isn't helping things much either. Just another surface that the bullet has to slide clear of without the benefit of gravity's aid.


Cheers
Trev

[35remington]

Trevj, try this.

After you've cleaned up the mould as much as you can, if sticking problems still occur, before you cut the sprue, give the HINGE BOLT on the handles a direct whack or two with the plastic hammer. Mild whacks.

Make sure both bearing pins are well aligned with full bearing parallel surfaces before doing this. If the mould is tight this will cause no harm because the two halves are still tightly joined and no vibration will occur to wallow the locating pin holes out of round.

Now, cut the sprue, open the mould and give the hinge pin another whack or two for release. The slightly jarring when the mould is closed often helps release, and of course the hinge pin whack after it is open is the best way to vibrate the two halves of the mould.

My RCBS 25 Cowboy mould for the excellent 85 grain flatnose bullet is rather stubborn about bullet release until I give the closed, uncut mould a tap on the hinge pin. If I don't do this I have to whack it hard enough to give me carpal tunnel to free the bullets when it's opened - but a firm but gentle tap on the hinge pin when the mould is closed means they fall out with a tap or two after it's open.

Moulds are individuals. You've got to cater to their preferences, and if something isn't working, (and as long as it doesn't harm or ding the mould - DON'T hit the mould directly) try something else.

You've got to mother them a bit, and find out what works.

Keep them durn gloves outta the mould!!!

And for gosh's sake - NO SCREWDRIVERS!!!! You're giving me hives, here!! That'll ding the cavity!!!! It's just a matter of time, no matter how careful you are.

There's a better way. You shouldn't ever have to pick the bullets out by hand. It's slow, and poor procedure.

[trevj]

I'll give that a try when I next fire up the pot.

If what I was doing was slow, I wanna see videos of fast! I figure I was getting somewhere near a 10 second cycle time. Compared to a buddies description, of casting bullets for his .500 S&W, where he says it's open the spout, wait.... then close it, let it set up, I am finding that the fill is almost instant, and it's a challenge to keep the button on top of the sprue plate from running all over the place. I found that messing with the limiter on the lever only slowed me down more, and I got more dirtier casts, and colder from the slower trickle.

I watched a great number of these little slugs hang up part way out of the mold, and drop snugly back home again, too.

The screwdriver. Not to worry. It's not like I'm prying the bullet out. Placed the edge of the blade against the base of the bullet, on the sprue cut, and slid the bullet out of it's seat. Been considering pointing up a bit of music wire, and bending it up to make a bit of a ring, that I can use the same way, but without having to pause for the time it takes to pick up a tool. Just something to save a little time. That tiny mold does not hold a lot of heat, and takes a bit of fast casting to keep hot, I've found. Maybe I should try the heat up a bit more, but this was working pretty well, once I found my groove.

I will try tapping the hinge point, though. I have some chunks of oak and maple around that should work well for that.

Counted up the bullets from the last session. 17 rejects, 215 keepers. That's of the ones that were not immediately chucked back into the pot, while the casting was in progress. That makes a bit short of 500 good 225415's ready for sizing and gas checks.

Cheers
Trev

[35remington]

Forget the oak and maple. I know that's old timey and all, but a plastic headed mallet just gets the bullets out more efficiently. Slightly sharper blow, when needed. Sounds like you lack some ummph.

If you're whanging on the mould handles with a lightweight stick, you probably are getting darn good and tired of tapping on it. I can hit more gently when needed most of the time, or adjust the blow so overall it's less effort than a stick would require. The hammer itself is small but strikes a better blow than a stick.

If you can't cast .22's fast you're not much of a caster. The moulds take awhile to overheat, and the sprues harden up fast.

I just do not understand the rationale of using a pointed, potentially hard object to pry a bullet out of a cavity. Plus the added manipulation required of another tool to eject the bullet.

When I cast with a bottom pour, I put neither mould nor plastic/hard rubber hammer down, ever. I don't need to pick up additional tools, nor synthesize partial solutions. I just use what I am already holding.

That's how to run a mould.

[RugerSP101]

Ive been finding that not waiting too long really helps a ton in getting the bullets to fall out easily.

I watch the top of the lead and as soon as it turns dull (the very second it does) I knock the sprue plate over and drop the top peices back into the pot, then quickly drop the bullets before they cool to much. seems to help them keep from sticking almost entirely.

All Ive done so far is use an oil lamp (with parafin/kerosene lamp oil) to smoke the crap out of the whole mold including the guide pins. I also used pencil lead for the underside of the sprue, then a bit of beeswax for the sprue pivot screw to lube it up.

So far it seems to be working perfect, though I hope I dont find out later that this wasnt ok.
I did read around and it seems that a few guys online do it this way, which is where I got the idea.

If I let the bullet cool too much then one or the other may need a good tap, but if I time it right each time they fall out religiously without any effort at all.
Im wondering if the cooling lead is shrinking a bit and 'biting' into the grooves on the mold or something. Maybe dropping before the do helps them not to stick so easily.

[Bret4207]

I prefer to NEVER smoke a mould, the more I think about it, the more I'm against it. The smoke is a poor fix to the issue, it insulates the mould from the heat when we need the heat in the mould. It makes the casting SMALLER when we need, (usually), as fat a boolit as the mould will throw. Better to smoke the OUTSIDE of the mould after "Leementing" the mould. Removing the burrs, opening the vent lines and in effect "finishing" the mould will almost always result in a better behaving mould. The larger the difference between boolit size and block size, the harder is is to keep the mould up to temp. The smoke can help insulate the mould and retain the heat. Mould temp is far more important than pot temp.

[jh45gun]

That Frankford release agent (spray graphite) works great for me and when I posted about it some bashed it saying that it makes the bullets smaller as your filling the mould some what well does not candle smoke or pencil lead or other such homemade remedies? All I can say is it works for me and a little goes a long way all you need is a fine coating.

[trevj]

Forget the oak and maple. I know that's old timey and all, but a plastic headed mallet just gets the bullets out more efficiently. Slightly sharper blow, when needed. Sounds like you lack some ummph.

If you're whanging on the mould handles with a lightweight stick, you probably are getting darn good and tired of tapping on it. I can hit more gently when needed most of the time, or adjust the blow so overall it's less effort than a stick would require. The hammer itself is small but strikes a better blow than a stick.

If you can't cast .22's fast you're not much of a caster. The moulds take awhile to overheat, and the sprues harden up fast.

I just do not understand the rationale of using a pointed, potentially hard object to pry a bullet out of a cavity. Plus the added manipulation required of another tool to eject the bullet.

When I cast with a bottom pour, I put neither mould nor plastic/hard rubber hammer down, ever. I don't need to pick up additional tools, nor synthesize partial solutions. I just use what I am already holding.

That's how to run a mould.

Well, I don't claim to be much of a caster, I guess.

I have not been using a stick or a hammer for any of any casting as of yet. Been cutting the sprue with a gloved hand, same one as opens the pour spout, and, often as not, popping the bullet from the mold.

No fumbling for any tools that way. Mold never leaves the left hand, gloved hand does the rest.

Swinging a plastic hammer that weighs several times what the mold does, at the mold, seems a means of providing oneself with sore hands in pretty short order.

You brace the mold on the table?

I've been timing my cut by watching the sprue cut. Too soon, it tears out a patch on the base, too late, it gets hard to cut. Right time, gives me a clean shiny cut, and easy. And it is a single cavity mold. Not huge forces involved.

Cheers
Trev

[smokepole]

+1 jh45gun....works well for me on my Lee, Lyman and Saeco moulds. You might try inverting the mould and then give the hinge bolt a tap. This works on a Lee .311 150 grain mould I have. The mould had been Leemented, but still both boolits would hang, when turned the mould upside down and gave it a tap they would drop right out. As said previously find what works..a lot of trial and error.

[RugerSP101]

eh, seems to work fine for me so far. Ill use the smoke thing until something goes wrong :)
Ive been cleaning it when Im done so there isnt any buildup or anything. just the same thin soot each time.

[RugerSP101]

I've been timing my cut by watching the sprue cut. Too soon, it tears out a patch on the base, too late, it gets hard to cut. Right time, gives me a clean shiny cut, and easy. And it is a single cavity mold. Not huge forces involved.

Cheers
Trev
Im sort of glad now that I got the two cavity instead of the 6 I was tempted to buy because Im just slow enough that the first bullet would be cooled down too much by the time Id get to the last one I think.
I couldnt find the single cavity for the bullet we wanted, but the 2 seems to be just easy enough that I can get both filled and still keep them consistent so far.

[35remington]

Sheesh, trevj, no wonder you can't drop the bullets from the mould! Most do not use a gloved hand. Sore fingers will show up much faster using your method, believe me. It's easier to cut a sprue with gentle tap than to use a gloved hand, especially if you get out a double cavity mould, which you will eventually. It's obvious from the comments you make in referring to a small plastic mallet (".......seems a means of providing oneself with sore hands in pretty short order.") that you've never tried it the right way.

And by the way, you don't swing at the mould. You tap the hinge pin. Big, big, difference, and the hammer does NOT weigh several times what the mould does unless you're using a small aluminum mould. You must be thinking I belt the hell out of it if you think sore hands result. I don't. And I don't put it down to tap it.

Your misconceptions and lack of a tutor are causing you problems in correctly handling a mould.

You've been trying it your own, self made way for rather too long. Your problems are a result of your self taught methods. Now, let us teach you something, because that's why you're here.

Get a small, lightweight plastic headed hammer. Give the mould hinge pin a tap as I've described.

Mould never leaves the left hand, hammer never leaves the right. The pot handle can be manipulated without setting the hammer down - the index finger operates the lever whilst still holding the small hammer with the middle, ring and pinkie.

Nothing gets put down, and I'll run a mould faster than you doing it my way versus your way. I also don't have to dream up some kind of tool to get the bullet out of the cavity when it wants to hang up because I'm already holding it (and it's faster because hangups don't occur), and it does not have the risk of potentially harming the cavity by picking at it with some hard sharp object or smearing goo on the mould faces.

[trevj]

Well, with a Lyman Ideal, single cavity mold, and a set of handles, I'm already at less weight than any plastic hammer I have seen around.

I've worked fixing airplanes as a mechanic, sheet metal worker, painter, and now machining parts. I've been involved in Watch and Clock repairing, old motorcycles, blacksmithing, and just plain old mucking about with metal, for most of the time I can remember, as a hobby. Some gun work too.

I'm fairly competent at those things, too. Based on that experience, I have a pretty good idea what rapping the mold a thousand times is going to feel like on my hands. Not something I look forward to, really. If I'm wrong, better for me! :D

The smallest size plastic hammer I can lay hands on, that I have seen, is still quite a bit heavier than the combined weight of the mold and handles. So wood, it's going to have to be. If it works well enough to get me to adopt the rapping technique, I may even build myself a small hammer.

I do wish you would stop assuming that I am having any issues besides the one I AM having.

The screwdriver that I used, was really in no danger of damaging any part of my molds. I may be new to casting, but I am neither an idiot, nor incompetent in the use of hand tools, which seem to be the ghist of your concerns.
And I had no issues with "goo" on the mold faces.

Just bullets that do not drop freely from the mold. Although, after a bit of attention, they come out much easier, though not quite as nicely as the 225107 mold I used prior.

Really, watching the behavior when the mold opened, it appeared to be an issue with the size of the lube grooves, compared to the overall diameter of the bullet. In short, the bullet must move straight sideways a fair percentage of it's diameter to get disengaged and fall free.

I really do appreciate the information regarding rapping the hinges. I am going to try it, and will report back. I may even have a suitable chunk of Delrin or Nylon bar stock to try with as well as the wood.

I'm still pretty fond of the gloved hand technique. I have seen it written about several places, and it was regarded as a step forward. I doubt I'd feel that way if I were casting in a six cavity mold, but, I'm not.

Got a video camera? I'd love to see a video of your technique. Especially if you can do 5 or 6 casts a minute, with a single cavity mold. I'd like to see that.

Cheers
Trev

[carpetman]

If you dont want to smoke your molds--go smokeless--place em between your cheek and gum.

[trevj]

If you dont want to smoke your molds--go smokeless--place em between your cheek and gum.

Naah! Don't need the burns on my lips and tongue! It'd slow my big mouth down too much! :D

Cheers
Trev

[trevj]

Well, an hour of time wasted trying to get the mold to drop using a hammer (well, OK, not a hammer, but a chunk of Delrin Bar stock, as well as a chunk of really hard maple) and I went back to using my gloved hand. It was a PITA to try to keep the mold warm enough, by the time I managed to rattle the bullet loose, using about every combination of directions and hardnesses of strikes I could think of.

Once the mold got too cool to fill out worth a hoot, the bullets dropped just fine, however. Not so useful, from a production point of view, but fine as a learning exercise.

I learned that this mold does not care how often, or in which direction it is rapped, it holds on to the bullets, on one side or the other, to no particular mold half by preference.

I'll see by tomorrow, how I made out on my cull. I figure I cast about 800, maybe a bit more, judging the volume of piled up bullets.
FWIW, I was not pushing too hard, and it took me 6 1/2 minutes to cast 30 good slugs, so 13 seconds per.

Time to put this one away, and dig out the 225438 for a while.

Cheers
Trev