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Freightman
04-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Thought about the primer thing. So I got some super atomic caps for a cap gun, got a used large pistol prmer, took the anvil out and took the firing pin dent out, put a trimed cap in and tried three times toget the anvil back in cap poped all three times even with hand seating. Conclusion: it would work if you could get the anvil in but will be far to dangerous with loaded ammo way to sensitive.
Back to the drawing board.

stubshaft
04-13-2009, 06:35 PM
Did you try it with the crushed matches too? The thread I saw used light anywhere matches crushed and put into the cups.

Freightman
04-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Would if I knew where to get "strick anywhere matches" I haven't seen any of these in years.
If you have a source I would be intrested.

odoh
04-13-2009, 07:38 PM
Would if I knew where to get "strick anywhere matches" I haven't seen any of these in years.
If you have a source I would be intrested.

Someone said ACE Hardware?

Hunter 24095
04-13-2009, 08:02 PM
I can get strike any where matches if some one needs some I just ordered a case today.

waco
04-13-2009, 08:55 PM
man
you can buy those things anywhere
albertsons, safeway
any grocery store!
they are cheap!!!!

briang
04-13-2009, 09:02 PM
I've never seen strike any where matches in a grocery store

EMC45
04-14-2009, 06:19 AM
Matches and caps would be corrosive wouldn't they?

lavenatti
04-14-2009, 06:32 AM
Yes, matches use potassium chlorate (and sulfur, glue etc.) and would leave behind potassium chloride making them corrosive, same as regular old corrosive primers.

Toy caps, unless they've changed the formula, are made of "Armstrongs Mix", an insanely sensitive compound not really safe for using in primers. It's a mix of potassium chlorate and red phosphorous. (Often refered to as a "death mix" by pyrotechnic people.) It can be worked with reasonably safely when wet but it's a nightmare when dry. It's only safe for toy caps because of the tiny amount used.

opentop
04-14-2009, 11:28 AM
Strike any where matches are not allowed to be sold in Ohio. Same might be true for other states. I have to travel south of the border to get them.

Freightman
04-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Yes, matches use potassium chlorate (and sulfur, glue etc.) and would leave behind potassium chloride making them corrosive, same as regular old corrosive primers.

Toy caps, unless they've changed the formula, are made of "Armstrongs Mix", an insanely sensitive compound not really safe for using in primers. It's a mix of potassium chlorate and red phosphorous. (Often refered to as a "death mix" by pyrotechnic people.) It can be worked with reasonably safely when wet but it's a nightmare when dry. It's only safe for toy caps because of the tiny amount used.
10/4 on the sensitive! when they go off between my fingers when putting the anvil in, sure not going to put them anywhere near loaded ammo.

trevj
04-14-2009, 04:08 PM
The leaflet that was circulating that showed the strike anywhere mach compound installed dry was either purposely wrong, or was the result of the person that wrote it, being less than fully familiar with the whole process and writing based on the descriptions given by someone that thought the listener knew, IMO.

I think that the strike anywhere compound might have some potential if wetted out with enough alcohol or water to make a paste that would dry in place and stay put, but I think the odds of it being stable enough to install the anvil dry, or to actually stay in the primer cup, for that matter, once installed in a loaded round (think about how you carry a loaded rifle, muzzle down, and ponder how long dry powder would stay put) are kind of slim.

I've read of folks that had to, reloading rimfire cartridges with match head mixture. They installed it wet, after they cleaned out the cases, and removed the dent fron the firing pin with a punch.

Wonder if the caps would be any kind of option if the anvil was installed while they were wet, then allowed to dry. Still pretty expedient, ut maybe stable enough for meeting a requirement.

I'd rather take my chances waiting for stocks of the real thing to come in, for now!

Cheers
Trev

SciFiJim
04-14-2009, 06:46 PM
For once California doesn't lead the way in wackiness. I can get strike anywhere matches at Walmart. I've got a couple of boxes in my cupboard. When the kids were little they thought it was hilarious when I would light one on the seat of my pants with friction.:redneck:

epj
04-15-2009, 01:57 AM
Would if I knew where to get "strick anywhere matches" I haven't seen any of these in years.
If you have a source I would be intrested.

I get mine at the grocery store.:Fire:

Mtman314
04-15-2009, 03:37 AM
Strike any where matches are not allowed to be sold in Ohio. Same might be true for other states. I have to travel south of the border to get them.

lehman's country store also sells the strike anywhere matches. Aren't they in ohio?

Ace Hardware and a few camping supply stores have them also. Here in Billings, Montana the Army Navy stores don't have them.


http://www.lehmans.com/

Jon
04-15-2009, 04:47 AM
You'll want to work with the match heads wet. I'm pretty sure I tried it with regular matchheads quite a few years ago with reasonable success. I'm not sure how consistent the ignition rates were though. You get more of a fizzle out of these primers than a bang.

Lloyd Smale
04-15-2009, 07:00 AM
they sell them up here in the grocery stores.
I've never seen strike any where matches in a grocery store

Shiloh
04-15-2009, 08:41 AM
Someone said ACE Hardware?

That's where I got mine. Good for camping and woodstoves.

SHiloh

Shepherd2
04-15-2009, 08:45 AM
You can buy strike anywhere matches in Ohio. Our local market has them and I think the hardware does too.

Boondocker
04-15-2009, 10:47 AM
When we where kids, we would cut the heads off of book matchs stuff them in a 22 case,crimp the end with pliers. Set on a rock and whack with a hammer, quite the bang. The shrapnel will get you so dont try this at home. LOL Dumb kids. Boon:shock:

mpmarty
04-15-2009, 03:56 PM
Ahhh memories of my youth!

We used to take a couple of half inch bolts three or four inches long and a half inch nut. We'd thread a bolt into the nut by about a thread then fill the cavity with strike anywhere match heads. Screw the second bolt into the nut to LIGHTLY compress the match heads and then drop them off a roof onto a rock or cement slab. The match heads would detonate and shoot a bolt a surprising distance into the air. We also used to disassemble and modify spring type clothes pins to shoot matches, the spring arm striking the head at launch would ignite the match and propel it several feet with surprising accuracy.

StarMetal
04-15-2009, 04:10 PM
Ahhh memories of my youth!

We used to take a couple of half inch bolts three or four inches long and a half inch nut. We'd thread a bolt into the nut by about a thread then fill the cavity with strike anywhere match heads. Screw the second bolt into the nut to LIGHTLY compress the match heads and then drop them off a roof onto a rock or cement slab. The match heads would detonate and shoot a bolt a surprising distance into the air. We also used to disassemble and modify spring type clothes pins to shoot matches, the spring arm striking the head at launch would ignite the match and propel it several feet with surprising accuracy.

We called those bolt bombs. Lot more dangerous then what you suggested. We used 1/2 inch diameter bolts and nut. They most often exploded into 3 sometimes 4 pieces. The unnerving part was tightening the assembly together.

Try filling the large size CO2 cartridge (empty of course) with 3F black powder, seal in long piece of cannon fuse, then coating with plastic model glue, and dipping into a bowl full of BB gun BB's. Let dry, then recoat with glue again, dip in BB's again. Repeat till you have a ball about the size of a baseball. Make sure you set this off in an uninhabited place, like in the woods, and run for good cover.

Joe

beagle
04-15-2009, 04:24 PM
I've shot many in a BB gun and the stick would stabilize the projectile and they'd light in a hard surface./beagle

StarMetal
04-15-2009, 04:41 PM
I've shot many in a BB gun and the stick would stabilize the projectile and they'd light in a hard surface./beagle

Yup, done that. Beagle they had these fireworks thingys called Atom Pearls (in my neck of the woods). What they looked like was a rough surface BB gun BB. Same size, dull gold color, rough texture. Came in a little round container kind of like percussion caps. Pressure exploded them, like throwing down on a sidewalk, or my cousin's favorite sticking them to the fence gate. Well it didn't take me long to load one in a BB gun. God what fun that was. They were very hard to come by though.

Joe

ghh3rd
04-19-2009, 12:41 AM
We also used to disassemble and modify spring type clothes pins to shoot matches, the spring arm striking the head at launch would ignite the match and propel it several feet with surprising accuracy.

Back in the 60's my friends and I used to make these and go on "missions" on our bikes in the alleys in Denver shooting the matches into the incinerators full of household garbarge everyone had in the back of their yard. No harm done since the garbage was ready to burn anyway.

Ahh, the good ol days...

odoh
05-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Back when I didn't know any better, filled an expended co2 cartridge w/matchhead mat'l to make a bomb. Took it to my buds place in town to set it off. Unfortunately, it didn't explode. It took off like a rocket, quicker than the eye and never knew where it went. It'd be a safe bet that some one nearby has an unexplained event from that.

That was the last time we did that but based on the experience did give some thot, just a thot to making it a mortar application.

ghh3rd
05-05-2009, 04:02 PM
It'd be a safe bet that some one nearby has an unexplained event from that.

I like that way you put that -- made me grin thinkin of it :-)

sheepdog
05-05-2009, 04:37 PM
:hijack: Back on track here. Anyone actually got the matchheads to work reliably? Think this is an area where we as a community need to have someone explore.

odoh
05-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Not me. My experiences w/matchheads have been thermo ~ for percussion/concussion, I used paper cap pods (not for primers as I was just a kid back then). Used them in short (1/2") piece of lead tubing/pipe crimped at both ends and tossed against a wall.

troy_mclure
05-05-2009, 06:38 PM
there was a thread not to long ago about somebody using caps successfully. in the reloading section maybe?

we used to take a tennis ball, drill a small hole in it, and fill it with strike anywhere match heads(took a while!), glue shut the hole, and give it a throw! pow! lots of burning stuff, and a decent bang!

snaggdit
05-05-2009, 08:28 PM
OK, I have to weigh in here, on topic... I have some strike anywhere matches. They sell them at the local grocery store but I have trouble finding them anywhere else:confused:
Anyway, I agree the liquid approach sounds like it has the most promise.
My first question is, doesn't water do something to the chemical composition? Always tried to keep matches dry, if they got wet, I never really had luck with them working after drying them off. Would alcohol or acetone be better?
Second question. The strike anywhere part is only the white tip, right? It isn't also the red part is it? Does a person want to separate off just the white part for the trial? I would be willing to try a few large pistol primers and load them for the 45. The small primers seem to dang tiny for experimentation. If I had to, I would make the attempt but why make it harder than it needs to be?

geargnasher
05-05-2009, 10:32 PM
I'll weigh in, too. I've been on a mission the last couple of days during my limited free time to find ideas for reloading primers. Not much out there except the pyro guys all say metallic cartridge primer compound is way too dangerous to handle, extremely poisonous, etc.

Useful info I found:
Use just the tips of matches. One guy said he made a paste with water and matchtips and put the anvil in wet like folks are saying here, he said it worked every time. I'm with you, Snaggdit, every match I ever had that even got DAMP lost it's "strike anywhere" capability but would burn in a fire. A Pyrotech said mixing alcohol and matchheads sounded like disaster to him (fwiw).

Match tip compound is similar to the corrosive primer compound used in most stuff in WWII, but is not as bad as mercury fulminate in that it would not eat the brass up and make it unsafe to reload. I clean my guns and tumble my brass anyway, so I don't care as long as it works.

The "Improvised Munitions Manual" shows how to make several binary explosives from fairly common chemicals, including primer compound, but college chemistry was a long time ago and I'm not qualified to experiment with making that kind of stuff from scratch. The manual also says use crushed match heads to rebuild primers.


Gentlemen, I have a proposal (unless I'm way off-base by even suggesting it, if so, mods please delete this): Why don't we get together and, like the original post, share what we know and would like to try with each other and see if we can come up with a SAFE way to make a primer compound and reload our spent primers? This would be something along the lines of Felix Lube, many collaborations and input from qualified folks would be better than a few of us experimenting with hearsay notions we heard about somewhere.

I'm ready to take this on be able to give the finger to the shortage, or maybe just never worry about it again. Hey, we reload ammo for many reasons one of them is accuracy, imagine being able to control the consistency of our ignition to maybe a level not matched by production primers! (I know "match" grade primers exist, but that's beside the point!).

Anybody in?

Gear

PS I want to try Tannerite and see if it is sensitive enough. The stuff we make must be just right, like the old WWII mil-spec of dropping a 4oz ball on a cartridge with the primer set on a fixed firing pin: ball drops 4" onto it, NO detonations, ball drops 15" onto it, detonates EVERY time. etc, etc.

rbuck351
05-05-2009, 11:20 PM
I have been meaning to do some playing with rebuilding primers. There are a couple of things I want to try, caps, match heads, and the stuff from railway torpedos. One thing I'm thinking may be a problem is they may not handle the pressure as well. They may be weakened by firing pin dent being pounded back out. Especially if done 3 or 4 times. Has anyone tried this in a high pressure round? And ,what is tannerite and where do you get it? I will be glad to share what I find out but it will be a while before SWMBO gives me time to play.

put
05-05-2009, 11:38 PM
I just tried the match thing. I used 3 tips in a small pistol primer. It must have been too much because the primer would not seat all the way. I used the method in the manual of using a vise to seat it. It was real hard to get ground up mixture in the cup. I wound up just putting the tips in the cup then mashing then with a punch. I then put the anvil in the case and installed the primer as per instructions. The primer stuck out a little and would not work in my GP100. I put it in my Marlin 357 and it went BANG! Not as loud as a regular primer but it should work. I think it would do better with some very fast powder like Bulls Eye as apposed to H110.

Next it will load some 38s and put them over the chrony.

How corrosive do you guys think it is? I did this just once 3 days ago. Do I have a problem in my bore now?

put
05-06-2009, 12:07 AM
YES! It is corrosive. I just looked at my rifle after firing 1 mach head primer and then putting it up for 3 days. There is about 1 1/2 inches of ruff bore just after the chamber. I did not even consider the stuff corrosive.

I put 2 patches of JBs down it and some Hoppes. I will work on it some tomorrow. Any suggestions?

geargnasher
05-06-2009, 10:33 PM
It is corrosive as mentioned in above posts, match head tips are made from potassium chlorate, which, like primers made from it in WWII corrodes bores like crazy. The suggestion would be to clean your guns right after shooting just like black powder guns.

Rbuck351: Google "Tannerite". Wicked stuff but probably too difficult to detonate with a firing pin due to low velocity.

Gear