how fast can i push 429421 wo leading?

[waco]

can i get full mag. performance in this kieth boolit without leading probs
if they are sized to the prop. dia?
full h-110, and 296 charges(like there is a diff.!)
i know it cuts holes at around 900-1000...
but what about 1300-1400???
any thoughts
waco:Fire:

[MT Gianni]

Barrel determines a lot. 1550 out of my Rossi 92 is all I want to have on my shoulder but it doesn't lead with my FWFL.

[twotrees]

Is a bit different than what you propose. 21 Gr of "OLD" 2400 mag LP. With air cooled Lyman #2 alloy it has shot fine, with out leading in my SBH and the Marlin 1894 , that I traded. The Marlin had to be single loaded as they were too long crimped in the crimp groove.

The Marlin was a wonder with that load as the owner of the shooting range I shoot at, traded me out of it.

Good Shooting,

[waco]

mine is a ruger super blackhawk....the one in my avatar
have not yey slugged the barrel...
i think i need a bigger sizer die
the one i have is .429
im thinking .431....but not sure yet

[44man]

mine is a ruger super blackhawk....the one in my avatar
have not yey slugged the barrel...
i think i need a bigger sizer die
the one i have is .429
im thinking .431....but not sure yet
You need .431 for the Ruger and even .432 will not hurt. You can go to a max load with it.
.429 will give you too much leading and will not be as accurate.

[HeavyMetal]

I have gotten 1400 out of my 8 3/8's model 29 with no problem using 296.

I run fairly hard alloy and hard lube like Lars carnuba red and size 430
However I purchased this gun used in 1978 and it is much smoother than those made today.

[dwtim]

Don't worry about velocity. You'll never reach a high enough velocity to get stripping in a 44 Magnum handgun. You might get some serious gas cutting with the wrong alloy and bad sizing, but I found that my 15-16 BHN '421s liked to be pushed hard before the leading tapered off. When I first played with lead in the 44 Mag, my starter loads were near 1,300 feet-per with a 7.5" Ruger Super-B. That's with a minimum charge of 2400 listed in the manual. No one died, but leading was unpredictable with undersized (.430" is undersized for that gun) commercial bullets and brittle commercial lubes.

Do a search on '44 h-110 429421' in the forums' search. There is a thread there where a guy with a wonky SBH eventually settled on not sizing the bullets at all.

[leadman]

You really need to slug the barrel and measure the throats on your revolver and size appropriately. Ideal would be the throats about .001" larger than bore, and boolits about .001" larger than the throats.
My SBH Hunter 41 magnum is very accurate and the barrel is .410" with the throats .410". My .410" size actually sizes to .412". No problem to shoot a 210 gr. Saeco into 2 to 3" at 100 yards off a rest.
I have used 429421 in my SBH old Model to about 1,300 fps with no leading with good accuracy. Proper sizing and water drop the boolits seems to work well for me.

[454PB]

What 44man said.....as big a boolit as you can will chamber freely. All Rugers I've owned want .432" boolits.

[waco]

im not even sure my lyman 429421 drops that big!
will have to mic some boolits
thanks for the input fellas
waco

[DonH]

My SBH Bisley likes the 429421 sized at .431 in WW heat treated to 21-24 bhn over 24-25 gr of 296. I can't tell you the velocity as I didn't have a chrono when I was working/hunting with the combination regularly. I had no leading issues. Lube was LBT Blue or Magnum. My barrel was fire-lapped when new.

[BABore]

My SBH Bisley likes the 429421 sized at .431 in WW heat treated to 21-24 bhn over 24-25 gr of 296. I can't tell you the velocity as I didn't have a chrono when I was working/hunting with the combination regularly. I had no leading issues. Lube was LBT Blue or Magnum. My barrel was fire-lapped when new.

Ditto to that.

I'm shooting pretty much the same load with the 429 sized to 0.4315. My SBH Hunter doesn't like hard boolits though. I'm shooting 50/50 WW-Pb air cooled at 10 bhn. Superb accuracy and no leading.

[Bret4207]

im not even sure my lyman 429421 drops that big!
will have to mic some boolits
thanks for the input fellas
waco

And that's where the problem will be. I'd go as large as the cylinder will chamber and work up slowly. You may have to WQ the boolits or add a bit of enrichment alloy to get best results. If your mould won;t go .431/.432+ then you can try Beagling. If you're using older brass annealing may help give better neck tension/crimp depending on which theory you prefer.

[dale2242]

I'm shooting 429421 cast from #2 at 1300-1400 fps with 296 sized .430, with no leading , from both a SBH and a Red Hawk Rugers.----dale

[Dale53]

I have shot tens of thousands of bullets through my .44 Magnums with 23.0 grs of H110 (practice) and 24.0 grs of H110 (hunting) with EXCELLENT results. The heavier load chronographs at 1300 fps in my guns.

The bullet is ww/linotype 8/1 to as hard as 5/1. I size at .430" for both my Model 29 S&W and Ruger Red Hawk. I use Federal Large Pistol primers (not magnums).

These loads shoot under 2" at fifty yards off a rest (around 4" at 100 yards) and I have taken a number of deer with them. All but one (my first one) have been one shot kills.

Dale53

[44man]

And that's where the problem will be. I'd go as large as the cylinder will chamber and work up slowly. You may have to WQ the boolits or add a bit of enrichment alloy to get best results. If your mould won;t go .431/.432+ then you can try Beagling. If you're using older brass annealing may help give better neck tension/crimp depending on which theory you prefer.
PLEASE do not anneal revolver brass for hot loads. It is HARD to get the cylinder out with pulled boolits. I tried it once and once only.
I made extensive tests and the worst accuracy was with new brass, giving me six different impact points on the target. Brass fired 4 or 5 times was very good and I have brass for my .44 that has been fired over 40 X. I recently shot a 1-5/16" group at 200 yd's with this old brass. Although annealing brass can aid a rifle, for a revolver that depends on even case tension, work hardening seems to even out the brass.
All of the split necks I have gotten with revolver brass has occurred with the very first firing. I never lose a case after that.
New brass is as uneven as you can get.

[Bret4207]

As I said- "may help...". Some folks swear by annealing, others swear at it.

[waco]

And that's where the problem will be. I'd go as large as the cylinder will chamber and work up slowly. You may have to WQ the boolits or add a bit of enrichment alloy to get best results. If your mould won;t go .431/.432+ then you can try Beagling. If you're using older brass annealing may help give better neck tension/crimp depending on which theory you prefer.

beagling???

[Larry Gibson]

waco

I shot a bajillion 429421s in several .44 magnums sized .429 (either 22 gr 2400 or 23 gr H4227) for years with excellent accuracy and no leading. I used Javelina lube. Then I read where I was supposed to size to the cylinder throats. So then I sized at .430/.431" and got the same excellent accuracy with no leading, using the same Javelina lube. Couldn't figure out if there was any difference. Now I size at .430 for my three .44s (Colt Anaconda, Hawes Western Marshal and Ruger 50th anniversary BHFT) and don't worry about it. I still get the same excellent accuracy out of all 3 of them with no leading. Still using Javelina lube. I recently shot some 429421s sized with the old .429 H die and couldn't find any difference between that and .430 or .431. Guess what i think is "excellent accuracy" is just crappy but they all work equally well for me in my current .44s and many that I've used in the past.

I think we get to wrapped up is some things that most often have little effect.

Also given the barrel length of your Ruger max loads of 2400, H110 or 296 should put you into the 1250-1300 fps range. Leading should not be a problem and never was/is for me. But then I use Javelina.

Larry Gibson

[DonH]

Elmer said a revolver bullet needs a gas check like a hound dog needs another tail! HeeHee

[Bret4207]

beagling???

Applying a small strip of aluminum furnace tape to the mould face to hold the blocks apart a bit. Do a search and you should find pages and pages of reference to "Beagling", named after our member "Beagle" whom we credit with the idea, but who says someone else gave him the idea IIRC.

[Hickory]

All things being right, you can push it up to as fast as you want (with in the limits of the gun)

[longbow]

Beagling is shimming the mould blocks apart using aluminum tape stuck to the mating faces.

Explained here in "Articles by Members": http://www.castpics.net/

It makes for a slightly oval but symmetrical boolit up to about 0.003" larger diameter than the un-Beagled mould will produce.

I have one Beagled mould that I lapped out by about 0.003" but it went slightly oval so I used aluminum foil and silcone blue to shim it back to round. Works fine.

Longbow

[MtGun44]

I've seen over 1700 fps in a Win 94 carbine without problems.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

Its impossible to give a certain velocity limit for a bullet. It depends on to many things. MOst imprortantly your individual gun. Two identical guns from the same batch may have a 200 fps differnce in how fast you can push the same bullets. throat dimentions, bore condition, alignment and other things come into play. Then theres the bullet. The size, the alloy, the lube. Then theres the load. The specific powder your using, even the primer can make a differnce in leading. Id say a generic limit on plain based bullets in a handgun is about 1200, but ive seen guns and loads lead at 800fps. Unless you luckily got a real good gun and the stars are alll aligned if you sit down and shoot 500 rounds without cleaning your probably going to have some leading if bullets are shot faster then 1200. Gas checks might buy you another 200 fps. Rifles dont have that cylinder gap where a bullet is made to jump across air and slam into a forcing cone so in them you can get away with a little more. Now i wont argue that if the alloy, load , lube, and gun are spot on you cant run up to 1400 fps. Personly i rarely push my handguns past 1200 fps anyway. If i need more power i go to a heavier or larger diameter bullet. I use alot of gas checked bullets but mostly because they tend to have a slight accuacy advantage and i also use them in rifles where the check really comes into play when velocitys get over 1500 fps.

[fecmech]

Waco--I have a Ruger SBH that has .434 throats. I shot it for years with mag loads of 25/296/429421 with little to no leading and accuracy in the 2-3" range at 50 yds. Those loads clocked 1300 fps and were mostly ACWW metal. Where I really experienced leading was when I tried to go slow with those bullets and powders like Green Dot and 231, the rifling disappeared with all the leading! I "Beagled the mould to cast .434-.435 and sized to .433. Magnum groups at 50 yds are now in the less than 2" range mostly and 800-900 fps loads with 231 are lead free and the accuracy level is on a par with the 429421@1300 fps. As long as you are pushing the bullets hard (30-40k psi) and using ACWW's and sizing as large as your mould allows you should be ok.