best .38 .357 mold?

[Randall]

After reading about the 358477 giving generally poor performance in another thread,what would be a better boolit?
Randall

[Texasflyboy]

After reading about the 358477 giving generally poor performance in another thread,what would be a better boolit?
Randall

For all around general use up to 1000 fps I would have to say the Hensely & Gibbs #51 plain base is a winner for me in .38 and .357 mag cases.

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/51_6.jpg



Over 1,000 fps I would have to say that the Lyman 358156GC works best for me. For excellent results in .357 mag velocities, I really like to pair the 358156GC with WC820 (surplus) or W296 for excellent results.

[jdgabbard]

Hey Randall, If you check your PM I picked up another mold. a 358311 2-cavity. If you like, as soon as my handles come in I'll cast some up for you and let you see if you like 'em. If you do you can borrow them any time.

[sagamore-one]

No offense Guy , but that's like asking what the best saw is. I would not use a chainsaw to make a violin and I would not use a Dozuki to rip planks or cut railroad ties.
End use would dictate which boolit to use.
For Bullseye I use a full wadcutter. For long range I lean toward the 358429 Keith.
For general plinking ... the sky is the limit. I cast 105, 148,160, and 170 gr semiwadcutters.
I cast more 160 gr , H&G # 51 than any other.
The Lyman 358477 isn't "bad", just misunderstood.
Again... No affense intended.

[jdgabbard]

Also don't forget about that 358495 that I have coming in sometime around the first of the week.

I'm assuming these are for plinking, right?

[Blammer]

I like either of these bestest.. :)

180gr GC on the left, 200gr plain base on the right

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN6583.jpg

[jdgabbard]

Blammer, what is the boolit ID on the 200g?

[Firebricker]

Randall, Theres a lot of good boolits for 38-357. What kind of fps are looking for and what you are using it for will help you get some good advice from members. FB

[Randall]

No offense Guy , but that's like asking what the best saw is. I would not use a chainsaw to make a violin and I would not use a Dozuki to rip planks or cut railroad ties.
End use would dictate which boolit to use.
For Bullseye I use a full wadcutter. For long range I lean toward the 358429 Keith.
For general plinking ... the sky is the limit. I cast 105, 148,160, and 170 gr semiwadcutters.
I cast more 160 gr , H&G # 51 than any other.
The Lyman 358477 isn't "bad", just misunderstood.
Again... No affense intended.

No offense taken,i could have been a little more specific, I am using it for plinking out to about 100-125 yards.
Randall

[Junior1942]

My best/favorite is the Lee C358-158-SWC 6 cavity. The bullets fall out of every cavity like lubed with snot. RTL in ww alloy, they weigh 165 grs. With Lil'Gun, I push them to 1820 fps in my 357 mag Rossi 92. I own 50 to 60 moulds, and the Lee C358-158-SWC 6 cavity is my favorite.

My #2 mould is the Ranch Dog CTL431-280-RF 6 cavity. Again, turn it over and out fall the bullets, perfect bullets. I haven't shot a single one, but I have a big ol' jug of dang fine bullets when I get ready for shooting.

My #3 mould is the Group Buy Fat 311041 6 cavity. Perfect bullets, easy casting, and they shoot fine in my Win 94 30-30 and in my Yugo SKS.

I wouldn't sell those three molds for $200 each or $600 for all three. Their replacements might be less than perfect.

[MtGun44]

Interesting. 358477 works just fine for me. I haven't used it a whole lot, but
for me it worked fine, no problem.

That said - I really like 358429 a lot, but for shorter cylinders, the 477 will
fit where the 429 may not.

Like some body said, this is kinda like ask 'How high is up?'

Application, alloy, diam and lube are all huge variables.

Bill

[Blammer]

that 200gr is a custom mould from Tycer, it is really nice!

I'd like to run a GB on it, but don't know if there's enough interest

[Randall]

Randall, Theres a lot of good boolits for 38-357. What kind of fps are looking for and what you are using it for will help you get some good advice from members. FB

I load .357 to about 1000 fps and use it to ventilate cans. I have a 358477 and wondered why I would get a few flyers from nowhere(couldn't be my shooting!:-D)How about the Lyman cowboy boolit?

[Randall]

Hey Randall, If you check your PM I picked up another mold. a 358311 2-cavity. If you like, as soon as my handles come in I'll cast some up for you and let you see if you like 'em. If you do you can borrow them any time.

Thanks,I may have to take you up on that.

[Alchemist]

RCBS 38-150 SWC is a good one. Easy to cast, cuts good clean holes. One of my favorites.

[jdgabbard]

My best/favorite is the Lee C358-158-SWC 6 cavity. The bullets fall out of every cavity like lubed with snot. RTL in ww alloy, they weigh 165 grs. With Lil'Gun, I push them to 1820 fps in my 357 mag Rossi 92. I own 50 to 60 moulds, and the Lee C358-158-SWC 6 cavity is my favorite.


This is a 158 SWC-TL Group at 25M with a Model 65 Smith. The Bullseye is actually about 3.60" instead of 4" for some reason. But the from measured from center to center of furthest holes was .75 if you don't count that flyer. Which, as it happens, I knew as soon as the hammer fell where it went. As i kinda snapped the trigger. But this is one of my best groups with that boolit. It will shoot better than I can.


12834

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've got this in a single cavity mold and have used it in the 38 special and the 357 at relatively low or moderate velocities without any problems. It appears to not do as well at higher fps perhaps because of the lube grooves being a bit shallow. The H&G #51 does much better design and lube-wise. The 477 however does do ok if sized correctly for the barrel and the right powder is found and carefully adjusted to produce the best accuracy/grouping. LLS

[MT Gianni]

IME if a gun won't shoot 358477 over 5.4 gr of Unique in 38 spl cases [now a +p load previously not] it won't shoot. Get a group buy of a 180 gr RF gc bullet. we rerun one every other year and it is a winner. 358429 is a shooter also.

[Blammer]

I agree on the Lee 358-158 6 cav, I have one and like it a lot!

Easy to cast with and accurate boolits.

[1Shirt]

Yep, what Junior says goes for me also. Have a half dozen other molds, but those three are favorites.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Tom Herman]

I've got this in a single cavity mold and have used it in the 38 special and the 357 at relatively low or moderate velocities without any problems. It appears to not do as well at higher fps perhaps because of the lube grooves being a bit shallow. The H&G #51 does much better design and lube-wise. The 477 however does do ok if sized correctly for the barrel and the right powder is found and carefully adjusted to produce the best accuracy/grouping. LLS

The mold illustrated in the Midway catalog showed a semi wadcutter with a flat top and square grease grooves.
What arrived was a *** with a rounded top and round grease grooves. I was bitterly disappointed.
It's a PITA to resize, and because of the rounded profile, the bullets get slightly mooshed on sizing and seating (Yes, I use the recommended top punch!).
It's a trainwreck, and I will sell it if the 358429 I have on backorder since January ever gets here.
In all fairness, the bullets did shoot very good, and I had zero leading. I just don't like the way it looks or deforms during lubing/loading.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Randall]

My 358477 doesn't look like whats in the catalog either.

[9.3X62AL]

FWIW--my Lyman #358477 is about 25 years old, and has a rounded edge on its SWC nose and round lube groove. It has long served me well in 38 Special loads, well past 1000 FPS in many 38 and 357 revolvers. I didn't use it much in 357 Magnum ammo, opting for either #358156 or #358430 in that caliber.

About 4-5 years ago I got my first Lyman #359429 mould, and it shoots a bit better than the #358477 overall--but not a big difference, really. For the sizing issues, try a #311 top punch or some other rounded top punch that "centers" the bullet better than the #429 punch. I long ago started viewing top punch recommendations as only guidelines, and fairly poetic ones at that. I had Buckshot turn me "NearEnuf" top punches in 30, 38, and 44 calibers a while back, and these do a lot of work for me in oddball mould designs. The "NearEnuf" is basically a shallow domed interior that centers most SWC, WFN, or round flat nose designs VERY well.

[Tom Herman]

FWIW--my Lyman #358477 is about 25 years old, and has a rounded edge on its SWC nose and round lube groove. About 4-5 years ago I got my first Lyman #359429 mould, and it shoots a bit better than the #358477 overall--but not a big difference, really. For the sizing issues, try a #311 top punch or some other rounded top punch that "centers" the bullet better than the #429 punch. I long ago started viewing top punch recommendations as only guidelines, and fairly poetic ones at that.

Thanks for the top punch info! I will order the #311... I'm sure it shouldn't take Midway more than a year or two to supply it...
And I also appreciate the input on your #358477... If they have been supplying rounded bullets and grease grooves in this caliber for 25+ years, then I wonder why in the world they haven't updated the pictures of their product to show this? It leaves me shaking my head.
I was going to write a very polite letter to Lyman on this, but now i probably won't.
And I also wonder why they specify top punches that aren't right for a bullet profile? They must have a spy from the competition sabotaging them, otherwise it's sheer stupidity...
And thanks for the encouragement on the 358429... I will look forward to its arrival sometime... Midway just pushed that out almost another month. Their shipping estimates are almost as fanciful as Lyman's top punch recommendations...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Tom Herman]

Just scored a 358429 4 cavity mold thanks to a hot tip! You guys are AWESOME!
The Midway mold backorder is now cancelled...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[jdgabbard]

You be interested in getting rid of that 4 cavity you just scored ;)


Just as a question, but has anyone ever tried using the Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF loaded in a .38spl case in a .357 magnum?

Maybe under some H110?

[NuJudge]

I've never had a .357 or .38 that did not shoot well with the 358156GC

[Tom Herman]

You be interested in getting rid of that 4 cavity you just scored ;)


Just as a question, but has anyone ever tried using the Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF loaded in a .38spl case in a .357 magnum?

Maybe under some H110?

But I can't part with it! I've been waiting for Midway to deliver it for almost three months... I did send you a private message with the skinny on where they might be found.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[MtGun44]

Does your 358477 look like this?

Bill

[Randall]

Thats pretty much what mine looks like,maybe a little more rounded before it flattens out at the tip

[rbuck351]

I have the 358477 like the one MtGun44 shows in his picture. It casts a 152gr from ww. I managed one 50yd 6shot group slightly under 2" from a m28 smith using 5.2gr win231 in 38spl cases. I've never pushed it much past 1000fps but am very happy with it. Very light leading. I also have a lee C358-158 and using the same load and gun it patterens about 2 feet at 10yds with some hitting sideways. Haven't messed with it much yet so I'm not sure why it's working so badly. The bullets look good but so far don't shoot good.

[Tom Herman]

Does your 358477 look like this?

Bill

Bill,

I can't tell for sure, as I've already lost the mold! It looks right, except mine is a four banger... I'll order the 311 top punch. If that will work and not deform the bullet, the mold might just do OK...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Tom Herman]

OK guys... I started out casting and resizing large bore revolver rounds: .45 LC, .455 Webley, and .44 SPL...
All of the bullets resized without too much effort, even though they might have been a thousandth or two over nominal diameter as cast.
Here's where the rub comes in: All hell broke loose when I resized my 358477's: The effort needed to resize them was hellacious compared to the large bore bullets. Same alloy, and the unsized bullets were only a thousandth or so over the sized diameter.
What gives? Does it take more effort to resize smaller bullets?

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[1Shirt]

JDG The Ranch Dog 190 is both a good looker and shooter so far in my M94. Have yet to put any out of the one hander. Casts beautifuly, drops clean, and mine w/my alloy runs .3595 water dropped. All his blts are super in my opinion.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Tristan]

Junior, what's RTL?

Thanks!

I've been using some 358-158 RF lee's that someone else cast, and I like them just fine. I think that's why I bought a brand new six banger for myself. Still hasn't had the cutting oil cleaned off yet, but maybe next week.

And, I'm real fond of the 173 gr. Keith.

[jdgabbard]

1shirt, thats what I'm hoping for. But I hate to order a mold for a pistol that won't shoot good in it. Maybe if it doesn't shoot good, should I order it, I can pawn it off on someone who shoots levers. I like the looks of the design tho, and think it could be a real "killer" in the pistol world.

[Char-Gar]

The 38/357 rounds has been loaded by so many folks using so many bullets, I suspect there will never be any kind of consensus. It also depends on you want the bullet to do. Here is my experience on the matter.

1. For just pure accuracy, nothing beats a good 150-160 round nose like Lyman 358311. They will outshoot any full wadcutter or semi-wadcutter bullets. I also have the Hensley and Gibbs version, but it is no better than the Lyman in terms of accuracy.

2. Full wadcutter bullets are used by target shooters not because they are the most accurate, but because the cut need holes in the target. In that game, if you cut a line on the target, you get the next highest score. A clean hole in the target picks up points. I have a nice 4 hole NEI tha cast good full wadcutter bullets, but mostly I buy swaged hollow base wadcutters.

Past 50 yards the little full wadcutter kegs lose stability and accuracy goes to hell in a handbasket. But under 50 yards they are plenty accurate for most any purpose and will really smack small critters.

3. The semi-wadcutter is a compromise. They provide better long range accuracy that the full wadcutter , have a good meplat to kill larger game and still provide good accuracy though not quite up to the RN bullets.

I didn't get in on the 358477 thread, but IIRC that was Phil Sharps bullets and has enjoyed a reputation for doing good work.

The old Keith bullets is another (358429) SWC with a good reputation.

I use two different SWC bullets with complete satisfaction. The first is an older SAECO #12, which is an old Cramer design and different from what SAECO offers today. The second is Ray Thompson gas check design 358156. I use this for full snort magnum loads in both the solid and hollow point versions.

Allot of this had to do with the make of handgun. Smith and Wesson uses a 1-18 (and a fraction) twist in the barrel and does it's best work with bullets no more than 150 grains. That is not to say longer bullet won't do well as they will. Just not as well.

Colt used a 1-15 twist and really shines with bullets 150 and heavier.

I don't know what twist 'Ruger uses but my OM Blackhawk has a pronounced preferance for bullet over150 grains.

[Junior1942]

Junior, what's RTL?

Ready To Load, i.e., with gas check and lube, in my case always with two coats of LLA--Lee Liquid Alox.

[Bret4207]

OK guys... I started out casting and resizing large bore revolver rounds: .45 LC, .455 Webley, and .44 SPL...
All of the bullets resized without too much effort, even though they might have been a thousandth or two over nominal diameter as cast.
Here's where the rub comes in: All hell broke loose when I resized my 358477's: The effort needed to resize them was hellacious compared to the large bore bullets. Same alloy, and the unsized bullets were only a thousandth or so over the sized diameter.
What gives? Does it take more effort to resize smaller bullets?

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

It shouldn't Tom, it should take less. Simple math says so at least. Check your die and see if it really is what you think it is. I have had several dies that size .001 or even .001+ smaller than they're marked. Also, the older Lyman dies don't have a taper to the interior, they cut the boolit rather than size if they aren't center perfectly. You can feel the edge with a probe like a sharp pencil. I'd check to make sure everything is lined up right and that you aren't binding somewhere.

I have several 38/357 moulds. The old favorites are the 358156GC, the 357446, 358429 and Lee 358-180. I think I also have a 477 but to tell the truth with near 100 moulds now I get a little corn-fuzed. I don;t know why the 477 shouldn't work well just by looking at the profile pics. Must be a size issue or perhaps a balance issue. I'd prefer to see the base a little longer as in Keiths designs and a little stronger front shoulder, but otherwise it looks like it should shoot.

[MtGun44]

Absolutely no simple reason that 358477 should take lots more force to
size than a .44 or .45 boolit. I think you have some issue besides
the boolit. How about a too cold lube? Warm things up with a 75 watt
lightbulb next to the sizer for 20-30 minutes and try again. What is
the diam of the raw castings? What is the diam after they come out
of the sizer? Are you water dropping? If so, you should size immediately
as they harden over a period of hours to a few days. Very hard alloy
esp water dropped and aged could be a prob if you are casting .362
and sizing to .357 or similar large reduction. Is the lubsizer itself binding
mechanically some way?
Measure, study, think, test, measure some more and you will likely figure
this out.

Have you been through the bbl groove diameter and throat diameter
measurements? Are you sizing your boolits to .001 or .002 over the
throat diam? If not, you will be more prone to leading and inaccuracy.
No boolit can work properly if undersized and this is a super common
problem, perhaps THE MOST common problem.

Things are not NEARLY as simple as "this boolit is good and that boolit
is bad" There are some inferior designs out there that are often
problematic, but most of the 'normal' designs can be made to work -
but alloy, hardness, boolit diam vs throat and groove diam, lube and
powder charge are ALL significant variables. There are more things
that can wreck an otherwise good load than we can cover in a short
space.

Here is a rough, simplified map of the process -
Pick a boolit design, newcomers should start with std designs at first.
Measure your throats and bbl groove diam.
Size to .001-.002 over throat for revolvers, .001-.002 over groove for semis.
Use a well known lube, NRA formula Alox 50/50 is a great place to start.
Use a moderate load of a powder that is standard for that caliber.
Try Titegroup, Bullsey, Unique, Red Dot, W231/HP38, or Clays in .38/357
Shoot some groups, take detailed notes - this is critical.
If there are issues, ask some questions here. Be ready to provide
all of the above info so we can help sort through things.
MOST IMPORTANT -- Relax and ENJOY the process.

Reloading is a journey. Climb on the train, start simple and basic, try
the easier stuff, ask a few questions. Listen to the answers and try
to learn and build up your understanding. I have been reloading for
42 years and am still learning all the time, esp in the post graduate
advanced adult education program that this site provides.

Bill

[mainiac]

I own 8 different .358 molds, and shoot them in a bunch of different .357 mags. Nothing beats the 358156 for most accuracy.A few might be close,but the 358156 will shoot in every gun i own.

[Down South]

Depends on the gun. But if the 358429 will fit your revolver then that’s what I’d recommend.

[Bret4207]

Absolutely no simple reason that 358477 should take lots more force to
size than a .44 or .45 boolit. I think you have some issue besides
the boolit. How about a too cold lube? Warm things up with a 75 watt
lightbulb next to the sizer for 20-30 minutes and try again. What is
the diam of the raw castings? What is the diam after they come out
of the sizer? Are you water dropping? If so, you should size immediately
as they harden over a period of hours to a few days. Very hard alloy
esp water dropped and aged could be a prob if you are casting .362
and sizing to .357 or similar large reduction. Is the lubsizer itself binding
mechanically some way?
Measure, study, think, test, measure some more and you will likely figure
this out.

Have you been through the bbl groove diameter and throat diameter
measurements? Are you sizing your boolits to .001 or .002 over the
throat diam? If not, you will be more prone to leading and inaccuracy.
No boolit can work properly if undersized and this is a super common
problem, perhaps THE MOST common problem.

Things are not NEARLY as simple as "this boolit is good and that boolit
is bad" There are some inferior designs out there that are often
problematic, but most of the 'normal' designs can be made to work -
but alloy, hardness, boolit diam vs throat and groove diam, lube and
powder charge are ALL significant variables. There are more things
that can wreck an otherwise good load than we can cover in a short
space.

Here is a rough, simplified map of the process -
Pick a boolit design, newcomers should start with std designs at first.
Measure your throats and bbl groove diam.
Size to .001-.002 over throat for revolvers, .001-.002 over groove for semis.
Use a well known lube, NRA formula Alox 50/50 is a great place to start.
Use a moderate load of a powder that is standard for that caliber.
Try Titegroup, Bullsey, Unique, Red Dot, W231/HP38, or Clays in .38/357
Shoot some groups, take detailed notes - this is critical.
If there are issues, ask some questions here. Be ready to provide
all of the above info so we can help sort through things.
MOST IMPORTANT -- Relax and ENJOY the process.

Reloading is a journey. Climb on the train, start simple and basic, try
the easier stuff, ask a few questions. Listen to the answers and try
to learn and build up your understanding. I have been reloading for
42 years and am still learning all the time, esp in the post graduate
advanced adult education program that this site provides.

Bill

Wow Bill! That's about the single best overview of basic loading I've read. Good job!

[Tom Herman]

Absolutely no simple reason that 358477 should take lots more force to
size than a .44 or .45 boolit. I think you have some issue besides
the boolit. How about a too cold lube? Warm things up with a 75 watt
lightbulb next to the sizer for 20-30 minutes and try again. What is
the diam of the raw castings? What is the diam after they come out
of the sizer? Are you water dropping? If so, you should size immediately
as they harden over a period of hours to a few days. Very hard alloy
esp water dropped and aged could be a prob if you are casting .362
and sizing to .357 or similar large reduction. Is the lubsizer itself binding
mechanically some way?
Measure, study, think, test, measure some more and you will likely figure
this out.

Have you been through the bbl groove diameter and throat diameter
measurements? Are you sizing your boolits to .001 or .002 over the
throat diam? If not, you will be more prone to leading and inaccuracy.
No boolit can work properly if undersized and this is a super common
problem, perhaps THE MOST common problem.

Things are not NEARLY as simple as "this boolit is good and that boolit
is bad" There are some inferior designs out there that are often
problematic, but most of the 'normal' designs can be made to work -
but alloy, hardness, boolit diam vs throat and groove diam, lube and
powder charge are ALL significant variables. There are more things
that can wreck an otherwise good load than we can cover in a short
space.

Here is a rough, simplified map of the process -
Pick a boolit design, newcomers should start with std designs at first.
Measure your throats and bbl groove diam.
Size to .001-.002 over throat for revolvers, .001-.002 over groove for semis.
Use a well known lube, NRA formula Alox 50/50 is a great place to start.
Use a moderate load of a powder that is standard for that caliber.
Try Titegroup, Bullsey, Unique, Red Dot, W231/HP38, or Clays in .38/357
Shoot some groups, take detailed notes - this is critical.
If there are issues, ask some questions here. Be ready to provide
all of the above info so we can help sort through things.
MOST IMPORTANT -- Relax and ENJOY the process.

Reloading is a journey. Climb on the train, start simple and basic, try
the easier stuff, ask a few questions. Listen to the answers and try
to learn and build up your understanding. I have been reloading for
42 years and am still learning all the time, esp in the post graduate
advanced adult education program that this site provides.

Bill

I've checked the Model 10 and found the throats in the .3559 range with the pin gauge set.
The raw bullets are in the .3585-.3590 range.
Thy Lyman .358 sizing die is a little under, I guesstimate it at .3575, as the .3579 pin gauge won't quite go through it.
I have not yet slugged the Model 10. Hopefully, I can do that in a day or so.
The alloy is 50/50 WW to scrap lead, and I load it to midrange velocities with Unique. Lube is a home made dead ringer for SPG.
I made a lube heater for the Lubrisizer, so the lube goes on warm.
So, it looks like the bullets are only sizing a little over a thousandth, but going through the throats at a healthy 1-1/2 thousandth over sized diameter.
The kicker is that all my bullets are water dropped, and the larger ones size more easily than the thinner .38's... a LOT of the bullets are sized long after they are cast.
I will check the .44's and .45's and see how they mike. It's an interesting exercise!
I actually have a bunch of Lyman 664's to size, lube, and load... That's the next project unless the 429 mold arrives before I get to the .45's.
I'll keep scratching my head....

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[sniper]

Randall: It's Totally subjective, and there probably isn't one right answer.

But, I have always enjoyed the RCBS 150gr. plain base bullet. Woops! Boolit, I meant BOOLIT! Really, I did! :mrgreen:

The 158gr. plain base looks to be a good 'un, too.