311291 vs 311299, 2400 vs 4895

[keeak]

Hi guys & girls, I have a question for all of you experts out there. I have been reading the threads for the last couple of weeks, trying to decide which mold to buy for casting bullets for my remington 700 30-06, and along the same line which powder to use to push it. I am looking for 2moa out to three hundered yds. I saw one thread regarding the accuracy of 311291 which stated that it did not have enough lube capacity, and that the nose of the bullet was not large enough to keep it straight, yet I have had others say that it has fine accracy out to 300 yds. Also that the 311299 was great to 600 yds Which is it??? I want to keep velocity below 2000fps, but not a poof load either.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. 311291 is an excellent design and shoots well for many riflemen. I never had it run out of lube but I suppose if it were driven fast enough it would do so. 311299 is also a much used favorite, but heavier than the 291. Both should have a bullet body of .309-.310 and a nose section of .301-.302. Another excellent choice is 311284 which is in the same weight class as 299. All 3 bullets have been made to perform very well in 30-06 when close attention is given to the adjustment of the variables. If you are concerned with the possibility of running out of lube, you might consider as well the designs/molds offered by RCBS for 30 caliber. At least two of their molds have multiple lube rings that would carry a lot more lube in case you need it. The only factors involved with these, that some folks might be concerned with, are; multi-ringed designs are a bit more difficult to cast and also that when loaded- there are lube rings exposed to being handled and dust. This would also apply to some excellent "Loverin" designs by Lyman that unfortunately are no longer produced. Good examples would be 311466 qnd 311467. This whole subject was excellently addressed and written on by Jim Carmichael, a well known gun author in an article done for "The Art of Bullet Casting", a classic publication still available from Wolfe Publishing. LLS

[Buckshot]

..............If I were going to be shooting to 300 yards I'd use either the 311299 or the old 311284. The 311284 can be 15 - 20 grs heavier then the -299 but mould variables can open or close the differences. For me, weight at those ranges would be the important part. For the 2 powders I'd sure wring out 4895, and probably get some 4831 too.

................Buckshot

[StarMetal]

I agree with Buckshot. The 299 and 284 have the weight and higher BC going for them for longer range work. I'd stick with the slower powders, say 4350 on up if you want to push them.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Having shot thousands of both 311291 and 311299s in various '06 for 40 years or so I'll offer that either will do nicely to 300 yards. Yes there was a lot of critical remarks made against 311291 of which none were valid for your "under 2000 fps" requirement. My poor old 311291 mould drew a lot of criticism in one particular thread yet I was able to fire a 10 shot 2.5” group at 200 yards with it. That is considerably under 2moa and that accuracy level holds to 300 yards also. I will mention that was with bullets dropped from both cavities with no weighing or any other selection other than visual. In other words that group was shot with bullets “dropped from the mould”. Those bullets shoot that well in numerous .30 cal cartridges including many ‘06s. The issue of the nose “riding” the bore with a close or engraved fit is over rated with some bullets, 311291 being one of them. This bullet has a very long bearing surface to keep the bullet concentric as possible with the bore. If the alloy is strong enough to prevent the nose from sloughing during acceleration then the bullet will remain concentric and balance of the bullet not effected. My particular 311291has nose diameters of .298-.299” yet it still shoots quite well with the alloy I use at 1850-1950 fps.

311299 is also a very good choice if one is going to shoot to 600 yards. With certain loads it is accurate (2 moa) and maintains sufficient velocity (it has a very good BC compared to most other .30 cal cast bullets) to just stay sonic at 600 yards. Its driving bands, however, have a shorter bearing length than those of 311291. Thus it is imperative to have the nose ride the bore. My 311299 nose diameters run .299-.300”. It works well in most new .30 barrels but the slightly larger 314299 is sometimes needed to ensure the nose “rides”.

2400 is a very good powder that will give excellent accuracy with both bullets up to 1800 fps or so given a sufficiently strong alloy. Above that the faster acceleration of 2400 vs 4895 causes increased obturation and sloughing that will adversely affect accuracy quicker. $895 (with a Dacron filler) has always been my choice for pushing either bullet above 1800 fps with accuracy in the 30-06. Both are fine powders and either may suit your needs for shooting either bullet out to 300 yards.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Not much I can add to the excellent information you have received. Both bullets are of great design, but when the range stretches way out there, the longer/heavier bullet has the ballistic advantage to buck the wind and maintain velocity.

The facts some folks swear by a certain bullet and others swear at the same bullet should not be a matter of concern. Here are a few points on that subject to consider.

1. Over the years the molds for the bullets have been cut with different cherries and there are some notable difference in molds of different vintages. The cherries are also resharpened from time to time, which will have an effect on the bullet dimension they cast.

2. Cast bullet accuracy is a balancing act between a number of factors. A. bullet fit to barrel throat, lands and grooves. B. the temper of the alloy C. the quality of the lube D. the proper power and charge weight for the temper of the alloy. E. the skill of the bullet caster. F. The care with which the round is put together. etc. etc. etc.

With all of these variables at work, it should not suprise anybody that results with the same bullet vary from shooter to shooter, from rifle to rifle, from caster to caster. The fact that a bullet of proven design does not do well for a particular shooter, means only that the shooter is doing something wrong or the bullet and barrel are just not meant to be married together.

In the case at hand, both bullet are of proven design and worth.

[keeak]

I wish to sincerely thank everyone for the info provided. I have been away from casting for about seven or so years, and am looking forward to getting back in the game! Keeak, AKA Bob Glazner of Stone Mountain Ga.