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View Full Version : 30-30 PB 180gr Load Data Wanted



SharpsShooter
02-14-2006, 07:18 PM
I have a 30-180-FN RCBS plain base 2 cavity mould that I'd like to use for a 30-30 Model 94. I have lots of GC data, but nothing in the PB category. I'm interested in any load data, but especially IMR 4064, 4298 or 4350. Accuracy is of prime interest and velocity of around 1400fps and up would be great. BTW these will be ACWW or posibly quenched if it is required. A good friend of mine has taken an interest in cast boolits :grin: and I'm trying to make startup easy for him by providing a mould and dies, sizing press etc. Now all I need is data.

Thanks

:coffeecom

45 2.1
02-14-2006, 08:23 PM
I don't think those slow of powders are going to get you where you want to go, a little to slow of velocity. Try Unique at the top of its burning range. 190 gr. loads are listed in the Lyman #45 manual.

SharpsShooter
02-14-2006, 09:22 PM
I don't think those slow of powders are going to get you where you want to go, a little to slow of velocity. Try Unique at the top of its burning range. 190 gr. loads are listed in the Lyman #45 manual.

45 2.1

My 45th edition Lyman Reloading Handbook lists loads for 190gr J-Boolits, but not cast. It does list a 183gr GC Boolit and 10gr of unique yeilding a velocity of 1519fps. I'm not too wild about that small of a charge in the 30-30 case. The low load density makes all my warning bells go off, but that's me.

moodyholler
02-14-2006, 10:07 PM
SS , Friday we will go through the Lyman cast bullet book and Phil Sharpes and copy the data from there. moodyholler

45 2.1
02-14-2006, 10:15 PM
I'ved used from 7.0 to 10.0 gr. of Unique with 165 to 188 gr. boolits for the last 30 years with no problems. If you look at that 190 gr. data, you will note that the powders you listed will not get down to the velocity you wanted. The 183 gr. lead data shows that Unique and Herco are the only powders in that range. You can also look at the data from the RCBS cast bullet manual #1 for your boolit, but gas checked, weighing in at 187 gr. which lists Reddot at a max of 1383 with all the other powders outside the range you wanted. You aren't going to find much heavy bullet data for the 30-30 in any manual, jacketed or cast. You seem to have a quandry on your hands.

w30wcf
02-15-2006, 07:06 AM
SharpsShooter,
Based on my experience, I would suggest 12-13 grs. of 4227 or 4759.
Those are powders that have worked well for me in the velocity range you are seeking.


Good luck,
w30wcf

Bret4207
02-15-2006, 08:04 AM
I'm with 45 2.1, 8-10 gr Unique. Is this mould PB from the factory or is it the standard design sans GC? Never heard of a PB design from RCBS in that wt.

SharpsShooter
02-15-2006, 08:24 AM
I'm with 45 2.1, 8-10 gr Unique. Is this mould PB from the factory or is it the standard design sans GC? Never heard of a PB design from RCBS in that wt.


The inscription reads 30-180-FN It has three lube grooves and one crimp. If it has been cut to remove the GC, I can not tell. I'm missing a handle retaining screw, so I haven't cast with it yet to determine its actual weight.

sundog
02-15-2006, 10:12 AM
SS, if the block has been trimmed to make a GC model PB, then I suspect it will weigh something less than the advertised 180. My mould of that flavor, as issued, runs in the 184ish area depending on the mix.

You said, "I'm missing a handle retaining screw, so I haven't cast with it yet to determine its actual weight."

That's NO EXCUSE! Hold it in your fingers. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif sundog

SharpsShooter
02-15-2006, 10:35 AM
SS, if the block has been trimmed to make a GC model PB, then I suspect it will weigh something less than the advertised 180. My mould of that flavor, as issued, runs in the 184ish area depending on the mix.

You said, "I'm missing a handle retaining screw, so I haven't cast with it yet to determine its actual weight."

That's NO EXCUSE! Hold it in your fingers. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif sundog


Close inspection of the blocks reveal no indication of modification. It has not been milled to remove the GC base and create a PB. It "may" have been reamed to create a PB as the base band is rather wide. If it has been reamed, it may be a good bit heavier and further complicate my well meaning attempt to get another shooter converted to cast. :groner:

If you guys will leave the RCBS 800 Number alone for a minute, I'll order the screw and not have to use my fingers :Fire:

MikeG
02-22-2006, 03:23 PM
I used 28 grains of surplus powder equal to IMR-4895 and a Lee 200 grain cast bullet. I got 1828 fps and good groups. I wrapped the bullets in pipe tape to obtain better groups; kind of like using a paper patch, but much easier. Shot em out of a Marlin 336 micro groove.

Mike G.

Larry Gibson
02-22-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm with Tpr. Bret and 45 2.1, 8-10 gr Unique will get you where you want to go quite nicely. Use an alox lube. If you're worried about a double charge use the technique I use (not developed by me but recommended years ago by various cast bullet loaders). The technique is this;

Any case sitting in a loading block has powder in it. Let me say that again; "Any case sitting in a loading block has powder in it." That's it, pretty simple.

All primed cases ready to charge are kept in small boxes (cigar baxes are great as are the little plastic containers sold by Dillon and Home Depot). Once the case is charged it goes into a loading block, again only when charged. I use loading blocks for no other purpose than to hold cases that have been charged. (Am I getting the point across?) Once the loading block is full or I have charged all the cases I do a visual inspection of the powder level. A double or lite charge is easy to detect except in the smaller calibers. With those I use a small marked rod to double check the powder level. Using this or a simular technique you will have no problems with double charges.

Larry Gibson

StarMetal
02-22-2006, 04:23 PM
Larry

I might add I use a Belding & Mull powder measure and to use it you put the cases in the loading block then you charge the powder tube and next empty the tube into a funnel sitting atop the case. So unless you have two loading blocks and tranfer the charge case from the empty block to the charged block that won't work for me. I have a 96 Hight Output low temperature flourescent dual lamp fixture directly overtop my loading bench. What I've always done for years is to go ahead and charge my cases. Then I visually inspect them. If the powder heights don't look all the same, or something looks unusual about any of them, I investigate them. This is easier with pistol cartridges, but with my lighting I can see inside the rifle cases very well. Also if I see any grains of powder outside the case on the loading block, that case gets dumped and recharged.

Joe

woody1
02-22-2006, 05:04 PM
Any case sitting in a loading block has powder in it. Let me say that again; "Any case sitting in a loading block has powder in it." That's it, pretty simple.
Larry Gibson
Not if it's upside down (primer up). Just another option. Regards, Woody

SharpsShooter
02-22-2006, 06:05 PM
Not if it's upside down (primer up). Just another option. Regards, Woody


The Primer UP method has always worked fine for me. I'm not concerned about a double charge. I closely inspect my cases before the seating operation. My only remaining concern is load density with regard to using Unique and if it is position sensitive as well.

:coffeecom

carpetman
02-23-2006, 12:11 AM
Starmetal---Joe,I too use Belding & Mull powder measure,but I hold case in hand and dump the charge,then place it in loading block.

Guido4198
02-23-2006, 06:21 AM
I wrapped the bullets in pipe tape to obtain better groups; kind of like using a paper patch, but much easier.
Mike G.[/QUOTE]

What's the general experience using Pipe tape?? I'm assuming this is a reference to the product typically referred to as "teflon tape". I've thought about it myself, but never tried it.....
Thanks,
Don

rockrat
02-23-2006, 10:05 AM
To take up more case volume, you also might want to consider Trail Boss. Has a burning rate, I believe, similar to Unique. A friend used to shoot PB bullets in his 30-30 using a casefull of 4831. Dirty load, but accurate in his 94.

MikeG
02-23-2006, 10:51 AM
What's the general experience using Pipe tape?? I'm assuming this is a reference to the product typically referred to as "teflon tape". I've thought about it myself, but never tried it.....
Thanks,
Don

Don,

I used the "pipe tape" to drive 200 grain hard cast bullets out of a 300 Win Mag at 2400 fps yielding 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. Without the tape I was getting more like 7 inch groups.

I wrap 2 layers of tape around the bullet, below the "shoulder".



Mike G.

SharpsShooter
02-23-2006, 05:55 PM
You said, "I'm missing a handle retaining screw, so I haven't cast with it yet to determine its actual weight."

That's NO EXCUSE! Hold it in your fingers. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif sundog


RCBS to the rescue. Parts were in the mail box. I will get some cast up and see what happens. :lovebooli

Guido4198
02-24-2006, 05:42 AM
Mike,
That's a SERIOUS improvement...!!!!
Are there some downside issues to using it..??
I've had problems getting my .375 H&H to shoot that well...perhaps that's something I ought to try.
Thanks,
Don

MikeG
02-24-2006, 11:38 AM
Don,

It's just one more step, but you can watch TV and put on the tape, it's real easy. Make sure you bell the mouth of the case enough. I used a Lee universal case expander on the 300 Win Mag. I think using your normal lubercant is a good idea. I used Johnsons Wax with these, but Lee Alox or whatever you normally use should work.

This pic at the top left shows 100 yard group using pipe tape on 200 grain 30-30 moving at over 1800 fps.

The pic on the right is the 100 yard group of 200 grain 300 Win Mag at nearly 2400 fps using lube only.

The pic on the bottom left is a 100 yard group of 200 grain 300 Win Mag at nearly 2400 fps, lubed and using the pipe tape.

Mike G.

Guido4198
02-24-2006, 08:08 PM
Are you lubing the slug, then putting the teflon tape over the lube..?????
I'm not dure I understand the process.
Don

robertbank
02-25-2006, 01:47 PM
This is from the RCBS "Cast Bullet Manual".

4831 - 32 gr - 1682 fps 34 gr 1796 fps

3031 - 26 gr - 1816 fps 28 gr 1972 fps

H322 23 gr - 1746 fps 25 gr - 1879 fps

2400 16 gr - 1756 fps 18 gr - 1886 fps

H110 13 gr - 1478 fps 15 gr - 1633 fps

These are loads all for your boolit 30-180-FN

Hope this helps.

Stay Safe

MikeG
02-27-2006, 10:22 AM
Are you lubing the slug, then putting the teflon tape over the lube..?????
I'm not dure I understand the process.
Don


Yes,

I am lubing the bullet and then putting the tape over it. I don't really know if this is needed. Try a couple with just the tape and see if it works.

Mike G.

Doughty
02-27-2006, 12:35 PM
MikeG,

"A picture's worth a thousand words." Could you show us a picture of a bullet, wrapped and ready to load? Also, one of a round loaded with the same bullet?

Thanks.

MikeG
02-28-2006, 10:24 PM
MikeG,

"A picture's worth a thousand words." Could you show us a picture of a bullet, wrapped and ready to load? Also, one of a round loaded with the same bullet?

Thanks.

Old Vic,

The pic shows a Lee 452 RNFP GC with the pipe tape. It's been rolled around in the bag alot and shows some wear on the tape, but you get the idea.

The cartridge is a 300 Win Mag from the batch that flew true.

Mike G.

Doughty
03-02-2006, 09:59 AM
MikeG

Thanks for the pictures. I'm intrigued. Think I'll give it a try as soon as I get some free time.