plain base velocity expectation?

[TREERAT]

what is a good velocity to try for with Ruger frontier 16 1/2 inch .358 win, 1 in 12 twist, Lyman 358430 cast at 196g, .360 diameter, water droped wheel weights, pan lubed cookie cutter style in carnuba red, using red dot load of 9 to 13 grains

[Bret4207]

Using the 13.0 gr Red Dot load in my 35 Whelen with the 260 gr Bator FN I get around 1450 est velocity. I would think you'd be in the same ballpark give or take 100 fps. Anything under 12-13 gr is very mild recoil-wise even with the 260 gr. The 430 should be very pleasant to shoot and may be surprisingly accurate.

As far as velocity to try for, each gun is a law unto itself. If you want to up the speed I'd go to a slower powder recommended for 200 gr jacketed and start low and work up. The PB will limit you at some point.

[Junior1942]

IME, you'll do fine at or below 1600 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

what is a good velocity to try for with Ruger frontier 16 1/2 inch .358 win, 1 in 12 twist, Lyman 358430 cast at 196g, .360 diameter, water droped wheel weights, pan lubed cookie cutter style in carnuba red, using red dot load of 9 to 13 grains

I'd be willing to bet your best accuracy is going to be with a velocity in the 1100-1200 fps range.

Larry Gibson

[303Guy]

The PB will limit you at some point.Might I ask why?

This is an un-hardened plain base fired with Varget/AR2208. There was no more leading than a gas checked bullet and there is no sign of flame cutting but there is sign of groove widening. It did have a cotton ball filler behind it.

245gr WW? 30gr Varget/AR2208
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-628F_edited.jpg

[bobk]

303Guy,
Well, strictly speaking, your example is no longer a plain-based boolit. It was protected by the cotton ball. You might have used COW, cornmeal, a hard wad, or a gas check, and the result would have been the same. All of these will protect the base, and to varying degrees provide a surface for the expanding gasses to push against. Just me, but I would be a little squeamish about any base protector than extended below the base of the neck. Yes, I've heard about dacron, kapok, and teased possum fur, but I think I'd find a different way in a bottlenecked case.
Bob K

[Larry Gibson]

303guy

Also look at that horribly uneven base. That is not conducive to best accuracy.

A better answer than a photo of the base of the bullet would be one of groups fired using that load without the cotten, with the cotten and with a similar GC'd bullet.

Knowing the actual velocity of the load would also be benificial.

Larry Gibson.

[TREERAT]

Bret4207
(If you want to up the speed I'd go to a slower powder recommended for 200 gr jacketed and start low and work up.)

I have Imr 3031, and data from speer and lee for 200g jacket bullets. but what I need to know is how far I can reduce IMR 3031? thought I read somewhere not to try to reduce 3031 that far.

[Bret4207]

Personally I'd stick with something like 16.0 gr 2400 or 13.0 RedDot and play with them. The warnings you're thinking of is not reducing very slow burning powders and ball powders below a certain point. Not something I've ever done so SEE is not something I've had issues with. I don't believe 3031 exhibits these characteristics, but I'm sure the powder gurus here could straighten that out.

If you really what to try to boos the speed just start with a starting load for 3031 and see what happens. Worst case scenario you'll get a leaded barrel and a little 4/0 steel wool will clean that right up.

[Bret4207]

Might I ask why?

This is an un-hardened plain base fired with Varget/AR2208. There was no more leading than a gas checked bullet and there is no sign of flame cutting but there is sign of groove widening. It did have a cotton ball filler behind it.

245gr WW? 30gr Varget/AR2208
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-628F_edited.jpg

I'm aware of you experiments and wish you luck, but as the other have pointed out you aren't really playing with the same stuff the poster asked about. Under most circumstances a PB will be limited to under 14-1600 fps, many times not even that. Fillers help and of course fit does too but it's all a matter of pressure and alloy strength in the end.

You show me repeatable 10 shot groups under 2" at over 2K and I'll buy your lunch.

[Junior1942]

...You show me repeatable 10 shot groups under 2" at over 2K and I'll buy your lunch....And I'll buy your dinner.

[TREERAT]

I beleive since I can only figure on 1200 to 1400 fps with my plain base, I will just stick to red dot and unique. and save my 3031 for jackets. thanks folks!

[303Guy]

Also look at that horribly uneven base.I know! Unfortunately I neglected to take a picture of the base before loading. I couldn't make out how much of that base distortion occured after impact and during the 'slow-down'. At least one of those dents was post impact. That particular bullet was loaded up 'just to see'. I personally would be a bit dubious about any kind of 'group' with a base that looks like that. But in the name of 'cast bullet' experimenting I might just load up the remaining batch and test them at the range! (Just to see!):wink:
Anyway, I was more concerned by the wide groove! That's what I thought might be of interest to TREERAT.


strictly speaking, your example is no longer a plain-based boolit. It was protected by the cotton ball.I was wondering about that. But the plain base is still being 'damaged' by pressure (or lack of strength of the bullet).


You show me repeatable 10 shot groups under 2" at over 2K and I'll buy your lunch. I wish! Throw in some beer and we might have a challenge. I would lose of course but as long as we have fun!