Should wax melt when fired??

[larrye44]

Sorry, it should be; Should WAX melt when fired?? I checked my berm the other day and found some cast boolits that still had the wax in them and it was in perfect condition. It was a 45 ACP and the boolit was a 200 grain SWC. I don't know what load I used on it, I use BE, AA #5, AA #2 and Unique. This boolit was shot some time back and I just noticed it. Was it sized too small? I got these from Georgia Arms. Shot them for many, many years. Used to get 300 boolits 200 gr. SWC for $10.00. Now they are 300 for $25.00.

So now I'm just getting into casting. I have 885 pounds (WW's) in 3 pound ingots. I got the Lee Pro 20-4 Melting Pot. The RCBS 2 cavity boolit mold the one that is a close copy of the H&G #68. It has a flat base. I have read a lot on this forum and know that sizing is the key to not getting leading and getting better accuracy.

But, WHY would the boolit still have the wax in it after being shot?

Thanks, everyone. Larry

[mooman76]

Sounds to me like the bullet did it's job. The base of the bullet protected the lube and kept the heat from melting it. This is normal.

[larrye44]

Thanks, moo..., so then the wax should stay on the boolit. If the wax does not, do I need to look for another wax. I plan on starting with the RCBS pistol wax.

[garandsrus]

Larrye,

I fixed the title for you...

Do you get leading when shooting that boolit and lube? If not, then there's no problem.

John

[larrye44]

Thanks, John...for the fix. No leading, no problems, I just wanted to know if the wax is supposed to stay with the boolit or should it melt and provide lube for the tube. I see all these different recipes for boolit lube, so I figured they would be designed to lube the barrel. It seems a waste to lube if all it dose is stay stuck to the boolit. That's why I'm asking, I just don't know enough about CB's yet. Just starting out, got the gear and lead and plan on hitting it next week. Spent 4 days melting down 1050 pounds of WW's. It rendered 855, 3 pound ingots.
Also, is it a good idea to add a little tin with the WW's. I saw somewhere that they were only .05%. I'm thinking about adding about 2% by weight. Thanks, Larry

[303Guy]

Should it melt? I would say no. This is/was a 245gr rifle bullet (303) propelled by 30grs Varget/AR2208. That stuff on its base is waxy-lube. I put there so it would melt and leave lube in the bore - it didn't!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-602F_edited.jpg

[Recluse]

Hard for me to volunteer helpful information to a guy who has his own shooting range and almost half a ton of scrap lead/WWs to melt down and his BIGGEST problem is shooting perfect bullets with the lube intact and NO leading.

(Just kidding)

My basic rule is if there is good accuracy and little to no leading, the lube can do whatever it wants, wherever it wants, however it wants--I'm a happy shooter.

Like you, though, I've recovered boolits that still had lube in the grooves--mainly handgun, slow moving boolits. Haven't recovered too many long gun, hi-velocity boolits with a lot of lube left in the grooves.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

We had a long thread running on this a couple years back, might even have been on one of the older boards. Anyway, the lube, wax as you call it, doesn't "melt" any more than the lead alloy does. The theory is that under the pressure of firing the lube works like a semi liquid and the laws of hydraulics apply. Pressure forces the lube grooves to partially collapse forcing the lube into whatever space there may be between the boolit and barrel. As the speed builds rotational forces also tend to push the lube against the barrel/boolit interface. Within the barrel there should be only a tiny amount of lube used to actually seal/lubricate that interface. Once the boolit exits the muzzle it's another story. The pressure drops and the boolit immediately starts to slow. Some lubes will tend to adhere to the boolit and stay with it throughout the flight till impact at least. Others tend to fly off randomly. Some folks find the lube staying on the boolit gives better grouping, other say it doesn't matter.

I personally am not a fan of the hard lubes, what we used to call "Crayola Lube" when they first came out since many of the formulas actually consisted of nothing more than melted crayons with some additional wax thrown in. Some guys love that type of lube, to each their own. My idea is that the harder the lube the more pressure it takes to get it to flow and if I have to bump the pressure that much then it can lead to other issues.

Just my opinion and worth just what you paid for it.

[shotman]

One thing You can use same lube on a 22 cal and on a 45 cal. The boolit will get hot enough to melt it off . The difference is a 22 will get hotter quicker than a 45. I dont find as many 38s with the lube left as the 45s. Also try 45s out at 100yds. most wont have lube left.Most shoot 45s at 25yds so if stop is 100ft boolit will not get hot enough to start the melt before the impact and cool down.

[larrye44]

Great information guys. I feel a lot more informed on the lube subject now.

Recluse, I just turned my computer on and came right to this thread. I got to say, it's great to start my day with a laugh. I am very lucky. I live in the country and the farmer next to me has a front end loader and I have a huge pile of red Georgia clay to shoot into. Not only that, but I went to a local recycler (fairly small town) to see if they had any lead. I figured I could make my own alloy if I could just get the lead first. They had 816 pounds of wheel weights and only $0.10 a pound. Got two five gallon buckets from the guy that does my tractor flats. Total probably 1050 pounds. Thanks again for the laugh and the information.

Larry

[powderburnerr]

the lube on bought bullets is designed to stay on the bullet in shipping and handling , and as such is a lot more tenacious than your own lubed bullets. not a lot of help but a good reason.............Dean

[larrye44]

Thanks, Dean, makes sense. That's a great looking rifle you have there.

[StarMetal]

I find many bullets with lube on them in all calibers I shoot from handgun to rifles. That includes finding them after they've passed through dirt, sand, or wood. This is also low and high velocity.

I was recently testing some high velocity small bore rifle bullets at 100 yards. I was using LBT lube, as you all know is dark blue. The particular rifle I was using has a very fast twist and it's a clockwise twist. I was amazed to find light blue splatters on my target all off in a pattern to the right, which is the direction of the spin. Now I found that very interesting as I've never had that happen to me before.

Joe

[Recluse]

Thanks again for the laugh and the information. [/COLOR]

Larry

Anytime, Larry.

If you want to start casting, you are at the right place and at the right time.

And never apologize for having God smile upon you with good fortune. I've stumbled across good deals and good folks and combinations thereof and been so giddy I've had to pinch myself. [smilie=1:

Get ready to enjoy the journey.

:coffee:

[powderburnerr]

Thanks larrye , its a 26 in barreled 45-110 and it is my hunting rifle .. Dean

[Nora]

Ok, I'll admit I'm reading way to much into the lube retention concept. But was thinking, with the boolits normal rotation on it's way down range, and centrifugal force taking effect to remove the lube, if it doesn't come off all at once or equally around the circumference of the boolit could this make it unstable enough to throw off the accuracy somewhat? (long sentence over- and breath) After all the mass of the round vs the weight of the lube I wouldn't think it should have that much of effect to throw it off it's axis, but could it? Or maybe I've just had to much coffee today. :coffeecom

[Bret4207]

Yup, it can happen.

[Bret4207]

One thing You can use same lube on a 22 cal and on a 45 cal. The boolit will get hot enough to melt it off . The difference is a 22 will get hotter quicker than a 45. I dont find as many 38s with the lube left as the 45s. Also try 45s out at 100yds. most wont have lube left.Most shoot 45s at 25yds so if stop is 100ft boolit will not get hot enough to start the melt before the impact and cool down.

Please explain how you came to the conclusion the boolit was getting hot enough to melt the lube off. I think you're confusing things- you find more 45's with lube on than 38's because the 38 has a faster twist. Faster twist, maybe higher velocity, most certainly with your 22 vs 45 example, equals faster rotation equals more lube flying off the boolit. Add in gasses passing by pushing the lube around too. At 100 yards you find less lube because the boolit had that much more time to spin and lose lube.

I'm sure somewhere there is a formula for determining the max amount a given object made of a lead alloy can rise in temp during a given time under a certain condition. Way beyond my ken, but the truth is I don;t believe there's enough time for the heat transfer to happen.