how do i tell if i am getting excessive leading?

[par0thead151]

i shot my first 9mm boolits today, and WOW you guys didn not lie, the tumble lube does put out a nice puff of smoke... i kind of like it, as i will soon shoot them through my 2XTM and it will add a cool effect when doing a 72 round drum dump:-D
anyways, i shot the boolits out of a sig 226 pistol. the barrel does look much different compared to when shooting FMJ's, how do i know if i have "too much" leading though?
the bullets measured out to be .355" diameter before firing.
liquid allox tumble lube was used as lube.
thanks

[Lead melter]

Count your lucky stars if the bore looks as it did beforehand.

If leading happens, you will see "smears" of dull gray residue on the lands. It will also be in the grooves, but is much harder to see. It usually makes its presence known at the muzzle end of the barrel, but can also be throughout the bore, or just at the exit end. It is not a terrible chore to remove, and some say that firing jacketed slugs will remove the lead. There may be some truth to this with light leading, but heavily leaded bores need to be scrubbed clean or the lead will iron onto the bore and is a ####h to remove. I have a Ruger 41 mag that once got leaded enough to look like a lunar landscape....about a week of everything I could think of to get it out.[smilie=b:

Most light leading will come out with the use of a smaller-than-bore-size wooden dowel and enough cloth on the end to get a very tight fit. Start the dowel/cloth remedy at the muzzle end of the barrel [after removing said barrel from pistol] and beat it through the barrel. The lead will come out in streaks on the cloth. Birchwood/Casey also makes a metal polishing cloth that works wonderfully for this excersize, but the cloth is a bit hard to find.

As I stated before, count your blessings.

[xr650]

Leading is a subjective thing.
If I have any lead in my bore I consider that leading.
I have seen posts that light leading was considered no leading.
I have tried cast in two of my SIG's 45 and 40. I had zero leading.
I got a small amount of leading in my XD 40. It was no big deal to get it out with lead remover cloth. I worked with my loads until I did not get leading.

[par0thead151]

so any discoloration is considered leading. the darker the lead color, the more leading there is?

[44man]

There is no way to keep leading out of a barrel. The secret is that it will not stick and the next boolit shoots it out, etc. A few flakes of lead from the first shot should result in the same few flakes after 1000 shots. That is considered NO leading.
When it sticks and continues to build up, you have a problem. That is when you need to make changes, boolit fit, alloy or lube. Even a powder change to a slower powder might be in order.
I can not use tumble lube at all, it causes leading and a loss of accuracy. I refuse to use any lube with Alox. You seen the nice smoke---it means the lube is BURNING in the bore and leaving ash behind to cause more leading. I want lube left in my bore between shots, not a dry, burned, ash laden bore. I do not want lead to stick to the steel. One patch should remove the few flakes of lead or the next boolit should shoot it out.
You can talk my leg off but you will never talk me into using Alox! [smilie=1: TL boolits work just super with a regular, good lube like CR or Felix.
I am guilty of using LLA but it is my lazy mans way of loading .38's for someone that shoots 7 yd's with a carry gun. A good way to get rid of the stuff! :bigsmyl2:

[runfiverun]

i agree with 44 here.
however ,don't confuse antimonial wash with leading.

[par0thead151]

anyone have a photo comparison?
im new, please go easy on me :-)
what is CR or Felix lube?
thanks

[Willbird]

The bottom line is accuracy, you will not get good accuracy with excessive leading. Some folks have actually weighed a semi auto pistol barrel on a powder scale before and after shooting to quantify the amount of residue left in the bore.

I get a little bit of lead in my xd-45 just ahead of the throat, but it does not hinder accuracy and seems to be a stable situation, IE it is the same at 10 rounds as it is at 50 rounds. I quantify it by counting how many strokes of a fairly new sinclair bore brush it takes to remove it, in my case it is 10 back and forth strokes(10 1 way and 10 back the other way) and it is gone.

Bill

[par0thead151]

well i did have not that great of accuracy. lots of fliers. not usual for me.
i will try to take a pic of my barrel to show its condition.
thanks

[leadman]

You can almost be guaranteed to have a large lead build-up if you do a 72 round dump. The heat from rapid fire tends to make a minor leading problem into a severe leading problem.

I use water dropped wheel weight with a little lino in it, size .001" over and lube with LBT Blue Soft. LBT lubes prevent the lead from adhering to the steel, can be pushed out with a tight patch if you have any leading.

[243winxb]

The bottom line is accuracy, you will not get good accuracy with excessive leading. So true. Some lead in the bore is normal. Real leading, you can't hit the side of a barn.

[Bret4207]

IMO fit is the most important detail in leading, or the lack of it, at least up to a certain speed/pressure. You're shooting .355 boolits out of a 9. What does the gun do with .356 or .357 boolits? I prefer my boolits for most handguns to be no more than .12 Bhn and at least .001 over bore and I've gone more than .003 over bore size with great accuracy and zero leading.

My suggestion is take some 4/0 steel wool and run it through your barrel. If you have more than a few flecks of lead you need to change something, probably your boolit size would be the very first place I'd go. An undersized boolit will not perform as well as a properly fitted boolit of any design with any alloy or lube.

[44man]

anyone have a photo comparison?
im new, please go easy on me :-)
what is CR or Felix lube?
thanks
Go to the bottom of the page and go to Lar's site for Carnauba Red lube.
Felix you have to make so click on Castpics and go to the research section for the recipe.

[243winxb]

2% tin in the alloy is a must have IMO
While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore. Water dropping upsets this balance, as the bullets need to cure/oxidize.

[hornsurgeon]

over at beartooth bullets, they reccomend using an older bore brush wrapped in bronze chore boy type scouring pad from the $1 store. just wrap a few strings of that around the brush and scrub a couple of times. i've never had to do it yet, but i stopped at the $1 store to get some just in case.

[qajaq59]

over at beartooth bullets, they reccomend using an older bore brush wrapped in bronze chore boy type scouring pad from the $1 store. just wrap a few strings of that around the brush and scrub a couple of times. i've never had to do it yet, but i stopped at the $1 store to get some just in case. Warning....Read the package carefully. Many of what appear to be bronze scrubbers are actually coated steel.

[hornsurgeon]

good to know

[kingstrider]

My Kahr PM9 sits in front of me now with some light leading from the other day. I think I'll go to the shop and scrub her down..

[Bret4207]

FWIW- I have been using 4/0 steel wool for decades with no ill results on my barrels. You have more to fear from stainless brushes and aluminum rods than 4/0 SW.

[44man]

FWIW- I have been using 4/0 steel wool for decades with no ill results on my barrels. You have more to fear from stainless brushes and aluminum rods than 4/0 SW.
4/0 steel wool is used to polish new bluing and to remove surface rust without harming the rest of the blue. It is very hard to hurt steel with it.
I like to wrap it around an old brush and spin the devil out of in shotguns too. Takes out lead and plastic real nice.

[303Guy]

Does all this mean that 10 shots through a rifle barrel, seven of which were 220gr at around 1900fps with zero leading is doing all right? (By zero I mean not a single speck!)

[44man]

It sure is because you took care of the things that count.
The problem is to cure a gun that does lead.

[par0thead151]

i just took the barrel out tonight... and DAMN i have massive leading.
i will try lowering my powder charge and applying a second coat of tumble lube.

[HORNET]

Size those .001/.002" larger and I bet most of the leading goes away. 9mm are notorious for having slightly larger barrel dimensions than they're supposed to be. Add a fast twist and problems pop up. Some on here size as large as .358".