Powder measure size

[docone31]

I have two pistols,
One a Colt Navy repro, steel frame, the other a Walker.
What size brass cartridge works for a medium load for either?
I am hopeing to make up scoops to do a field charge. I got a 20gn flask, but that will not work. I use Pyrodex P.
The Navy is reccomended to take 30gns of P
The Walker is reccomended to take 50gns of P

[Muddy Creek Sam]

docone31.

I shoot my 36 cal Navy with 20 grains of 3f Goex all the time no problems. Not sure I would use a full 50 grains in the Walker if it were me.

Sam :D

[docone31]

Sam, I appreciate that.
I already have the grain weight, I am going to try to fabricate a dipper. I am wondering what case comes close.

[Underclocked]

100 grains by volume is around 6 cc (or ml) if that helps. A .357 case might be close on the 30 grainer.

[docone31]

That does indeed help.
I am looking at bringing some Lee Dippers to the range. I had hoped to make it simple for the wife to learn from, but, she will have to learn that way.
I will measure the .357 case, and see. First I want to see what she can handle at the range. I want her to be all smiles when we are done. I suspect her first chain fire might be better than a cup of coffee for her. I shoot the Walker, she does the Navy.
Thanks.

[bobk]

docone31,
I have a hare-brained theory about the cylinders blowing up on Walkers, the originals. What I can see happening, in the heat of battle, is that the soldiers, wanting a quick reload, did not actually use a measure, but just poured in powder, and crunched a ball on top. This, if it is indeed a realistic scenario, caused the revolver to be loaded with too heavy a charge, and to make matters worse, some of the powder granules were crushed, increasing the burning rate. It's just a theory, but I can see it happening. certainly the shorter cylinder on the Dragoons would help this situation, as I have never seen anything that they were prone to blowup. They seemed to be robust.
I kinda doubt if steel got that much better to explain the difference in reliability. Sorry for the aside.

Bob K

[curator]

A .38 Special cartridge will hold about 27 grains of FFFg black powder. That is a FUL charge for a .36 Navy pistol. You might want to cut that down a mite for better accuracy.

A .45 (long) Colt cartridge will hold 45 grains of FFFg which is a good load for the average Walker repro. If you have access to .454 Casul cases or .480 Ruger, both of them hold just about 50 grains.

[StrawHat]

docone31,
I have a hare-brained theory about the cylinders blowing up on Walkers, the originals. What I can see happening, in the heat of battle, is that the soldiers, wanting a quick reload, did not actually use a measure, but just poured in powder, and crunched a ball on top. This, if it is indeed a realistic scenario, caused the revolver to be loaded with too heavy a charge, and to make matters worse, some of the powder granules were crushed, increasing the burning rate. It's just a theory, but I can see it happening. certainly the shorter cylinder on the Dragoons would help this situation, as I have never seen anything that they were prone to blowup. They seemed to be robust.
I kinda doubt if steel got that much better to explain the difference in reliability. Sorry for the aside.

Bob K

Bob,

I would imagine the poor quality iron used in the manufacture of the cylinders is the culprit. Some of the original cylinder appeared to be made from castings! I doubt that they were but that is the appearance of them. And since not all the cylinders blew up, to me that indicates a quality control problem. Possibly from the supplier.

The 1860s also had a similar problem when issued with the full fluted cylinders. It seems Colts has been recalling revolvers from pactically when they started production of them.

[StrawHat]

I have two pistols, ...I am hopeing to make up scoops to do a field charge.


In the back of the Dixie Gun Works Catalogs there used to be a chart that had how much some of the common cartridges held. If I can find one, I will post it.

[docone31]

Thanks StrawHat.
I am trying to figuire out how to cut patches now!
I figuire I will wrap the ball so the ticking just goes over the top, then snip with scissors.
Should be simple.

[Beerd]

you don't patch a BP revolver.
maybe a felt wad under the ball, but no patch.
use an oversize ball that cuts a ring of lead when it is loaded.
..

[docone31]

The patches are for my two caplock rifles.
I got the Navy for the wife to learn on, the Walker for my to play with.
Just got my cleaning parts, now to clean and dry the bore. I just made some lube.
We are both looking forward to the range tomorrow.

[bobk]

StrawHat,
You may be right; certainly metallurgy was part of the equation. But if I recall, the complaints came from reports of useage in combat, hence my theory. If they also had issues with the 1860s, then this tends to support my idea. The 1860 was the most commonly used Civil War handgun, with over 200,000 produced. As I said, the Dragoons were not noted for such problems, but most of their production was in the years between the Mexican war and the Civil War. I would guess that the metallurgy was just as bad, but the half inch shorter cylinder helped matters. Then they went to a reduced diameter cylinder to fit what was basically an 1851 frame, the problem once again reared it's head.

Bob K

[docone31]

The Dragoon series of pistol had one major flaw. The steel had copper in the alloy. That makes it brittle. They also had not forged the cylinders like the 1861 was.
The Walker in particular would walk the wedge hole forward, creating movement of the cylinder. This hammering, with the pressure of the powder itself would make the cylinders split and rupture.
The few Walkers that have been found with split cylinders had copper in the steel alloy.

[bobk]

Never knew that. I wonder where Colt got his steel? Was this some attempt at hardening the steel?

Bob K

[Beerd]

docone31,
a 50 cent piece makes a good pattern to cut around for patches.
or you can just cut them about 1 inch square and shoot as is.
..

[docone31]

Thanks Beerd. I had kinda figuired cutting them 1 by was the way to go.
I do feel a lot better hearing it from us first though.
This forum has sure helped me learn a bunch!
My wife is actually looking forward to firing her caplock!
She was a Liberal. Now she helps me reload for the matches.

[fourarmed]

I increased the capacity of the spout on my flask by cutting off the head of a case (.30 carbine, as I recall) and pressing it down over the original spout, then cutting it off at the capacity I wanted for my revolver. That way you need only one dipper for the larger revolver.

[StrawHat]

I am copying this from my latest edition of the DGW catalog, 1974, but the info should be unchanged.



Empty Case Grains of Black Powder
45-70 = 75
40-65 = 73
30-06 = 70
30-30 = 42
45 Long Colt = 42
44 WCF = 41
44 Special = 39
44 Colt = 35
45 Auto = 28
38 Special = 24
32 WCF = 22
30 Carbine = 20
22 Long = 5
22 Short = 2

These are just approximate numbers but it should get you in the ballpark.

I know I can get more powder in the 45 LC and 38 Special cases but as I said, ballpark figures. A scale will answer get you the final answer for your case.

I have also used copper pipe for a measure and imagine you could use a cut off cigar tube if you had one.

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

Hey I had an Idea


Anybody on this web site work in a Phamacy?


How about filling empty Geliten capsules with triple F ?

Also would be gerat for making Snakeloads

It burns but how easy does it ignite?


Burning gelatin can emit toxic fumes of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide and in very small quantities sulphur dioxide.



Size 00 60.00 KG per cubic meter

Size 0EL - 60.50 KG per cubic meter

Size 0 - 60.90 KG per cubic meter

Size 1 - 66.80 KG per cubic meter

Size 2 - 75.00 KG per cubic meter

Size 3 - 80.00 KG per cubic meter

Size 4 - 81.00 KG per cubic meter











http://www.shalimargroup.biz/sunilhealthcare/art/prodfeaturepic.jpg
11.12Solubility (In water and other products):Very soluble in water over 35 °C

[wills]

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(4hntvljjms2oez554ujslv45))/imgPart/funnel-group_0.jpg You can get powder flask spouts to vary your charge.