Lyman cast bullet hand book

[troy_mclure]

in not at in all impressed.

the biggest part of the book is old out of date adds for their equipment, black powder, and "scientific" stuff that has no practical use for the caster.
there were about 40 pages of useful info, mostly considering the % of various metals needed to make good boolits, and a few other bits, and odds.

i have learned far more stuff here than the limited stuff in the book.

it doesnt even have any decent loads for the guns im shooting for, i mean they could update it at least once a decade.

[carpetman]

If lymans does not impress---read Veral Smiths. Sells for more than a Lyman and it's a glorified pamphlet at best. 126 small pages. Would only be 20 pages if not for the misspells.

[jforwel]

I agree with you somewhat troy. It would be nice if they at least updated it every ten years or so. I do however think it is still a good reference for beginners and it does contain more cast loads than the Lyman handloading book. A Ruger and T/C section would be nice.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

IMHO I think it has a lot of information for folks taking up casting/shooting CB.
I think we all use this site to gain more insight into things we would like to know and there are a lot of folks here with a lot of knowledge, 4,000 minds are way better than 1.

Troy M, if you go to the threads, and search for the caliber and or loads you are looking for, chances are very good it has been listed and cussed and discussed. Opinions are Like some body parts, we all have one.
Good luck and good casting.

[Gunlaker]

I think they ought to update it for safety reasons alone. I've got a copy, and the loads for .45-70 using Reloder7 are plain wrong. If you look carefully, they use the old Hercules Reloder7. If you use the newer Reloder7 manufactured by Alliant, you'll have to back off by about 4 grains!

Chris.

[captaint]

I, too am on the fence regarding this book. Heard it's outdated and loaded with stuff most of us don't really need to know. I'm learning so much lurking & reading here I keep putting off spending the 20 odd bucks for the book.

[Bret4207]

Huh. My favorite issue of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is the first issue, from the late 50's. While an updated version would be really nice, Lyman doesn't care much about casters or casting. The basics are there in all 3 editions. Remember the basics, start low and work up and use the good information found in those books.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon..
I would like to know the date of the book troy is talking about. I got a reprint of an old book many years ago. I have read through it several times. It was the only book I ever saw at the time that had info on loading Round Ball in 12 guage (Black Powder). That little tid bit got me started into RB shooting through 12 guage more than 20 years ago when NO other reloading book I could locate even mentioned it.
Mike in Peru

[Maximilian225]

While an updated version would be really nice, Lyman doesn't care much about casters or casting.


It sure is beginning to look that way.:-(

[JIMinPHX]

not at in all impressed.


I disagree. I think that book is a very good place to start. I think it covers the basics well.

[ChuckS1]

I may be wrong, but I can't think how casting could really change from the 50's to now. Melt the alloy, cast and size... How much can it change? Powder data is another thing, but even so, I love my Speer #8 and the .38 Special loads, especially for SR-4756. ;)

There's a lot of science in the Lyman books, which I like, being an engineer. Understanding why things happen and looking at the data will help you stay our of trouble. You do have a chronograph, right?

[oldhickory]

I have two editions, one from the 70s and the other from the90s. The one from the 70s is small, about 5x7 and around 200 pages. It has information not available elsewhere, like pictures of their boolits and mold numbers as well as data and instruction. The one from the 90's is just about one big ad in the front that runs into data already published in the earlier book. I find myself refering to the earlier book much more often...All I have to do is keep track of it.

[Screwbolts]

When i joined the Cast Bullet Association, I got a very good hand book from them. I believe it is still available and is full of all kinds of good info.

All of you casters are members aren't you?

The bi monthly mag, The Fouling Shot , has good info in it also.

Ken
Central NY

[mrbill2]

Cast Bullets for Beginner and Experts by Joseph F. Brennan Jr.

[Flash]

I've got the original from 1958 and the third edition and find them both valuable. There is an NRA book written by Col. E. H. Harrison that's prety good too. I've got Veral Smith's book titled "Jacketed performance with cast bullets" but never read it. The Lyman books are good but since the internet, much or more can be learned here.

[Bret4207]

When i joined the Cast Bullet Association, I got a very good hand book from them. I believe it is still available and is full of all kinds of good info.

All of you casters are members aren't you?

The bi monthly mag, The Fouling Shot , has good info in it also.

Ken
Central NY

Most of the information in that book came from this site, or those preceding it. Mr. Brennen will still be found here checking his drafts for his 2nd or 3rd edition against our opinion and at the CBA site doing the same thing. A sore spot for many folks, yet I can admire his drive to produce an good reference book.

[joeb33050]

Most of the information in that book came from this site, or those preceding it.
Not so, most of the first edition was written years ago, long before most of us had access to the internet.

Mr. Brennen will still be found here checking his drafts for his 2nd or 3rd edition against our opinion and at the CBA site doing the same thing. A sore spot for many folks, yet I can admire his drive to produce an good reference book.

In fact I've been banned from the CBA site, (I may be the only life member to be banned),and have not added much if anything to the book from this or any site in the past half year or so. I think I've got it covered, if not all the topics, almost all.
I've changed my work, and am now trying to improve what's in the book. To this end I now and again ask for help, here and elsewhere, but with mixed results. Opinions abound, actual help is pretty rare.
I continue to review the cast bullet sites, but it takes less and less time each month.


joe b.

[markinalpine]

...and I'm still in the learning stage. :coffee:
I've read many chapters of joeb33050's book at: http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm , and have found them informative and think they will be helpful when I finally decide to start casting my own. So far I've limited myself to scrounging and melting wheel weights.
Mark :mrgreen:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yes I agree there are mistakes in some of the loading issues, that is present in most of the loading manuals, that is WHY they keep telling us to stay at least 10% under max loads and work up carefully.

I still use my first edition from 1956, the basic information is still good today. Yes they should update the ballistics , and correct mistakes , but this cost them $$$ and they don't do it every year.

I think some of the newer folk in the reloading game are looking for a short cut to the load they want to much. You should still start out under max loading for any gun/caliber and work it up yourself, there are way to many variables to take a load from ANY manual and stake your safety on it. IMHO

[Shiloh]

in not at in all impressed.

the biggest part of the book is old out of date adds for their equipment, black powder, and "scientific" stuff that has no practical use for the caster.
there were about 40 pages of useful info, mostly considering the % of various metals needed to make good boolits, and a few other bits, and odds.

i have learned far more stuff here than the limited stuff in the book.

it doesnt even have any decent loads for the guns im shooting for, i mean they could update it at least once a decade.

Been awhile since I looked through one, but according to your post, nothing has changed. You're right about this forum, there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here.

Shiloh

[Bret4207]

joe b.

I based what I posted on what you've told us in the past Joe. My copy of your book has a date of 2000 something, well after the internet became popular. So...whatever.

[waksupi]

I kinda recall a guy coming hat in hand, too.

[Green Frog]

In order to commercially produce such a book, there has to be sufficient market to make it commercially viable. If you ask how many people on this board have a copy (any vintage) of the Ideal Handbook and/or the Cast Bullet Handbook which somewhat superseded it, you will find that most of us have one or several if we have been casting more than a couple of weeks. As several previous posters have mentioned, the basics of how to cast remain pretty much unchanged, and the powders that were available seem to be in a state of flux now with the several buy-outs, closings, and other changes in powder companies. Rather than complain about a new book most of us wouldn't get anyway, why not suggest that anyone interested get the handbook of their choice and the newest catalogs and powder tables of the manufacturers whose products they wish to use? Then you would have the basic information which doesn't change much and the most current information on data that does. Then sit down and read it instead of complaining! :coffee:

I'm a Biologist by training and there is an awful lot going on all the time in my field, but I really don't buy that many new books each year. In the world of science research one generally tries to have the best reference available plus the current journals and of course internet correspondence to keep up with research. They don't make a new book for everyone to buy every year! JMHO, YMMV :mrgreen:

Froggie

PS You don't see me complaining about this site when so many posters drag the topic of wheel weights and their variety of sources, uses, mixes, etc out ad nauseum, yet I personally got past casting significant bullets with those mongrel pieces of antimony contamination 10 years ago and consider them suitable only for sinkers or sailboat keels... I still read the rest of the site and let you guys struggle for your own enlightenment. But that's just me! [smilie=1:

Green Frog

[Slow Elk 45/70]

What Waksupi said, +1, and I agree whole 100% with Green Frog, some of this "stuff" get's beat to death over and over, no one bothers to search the threads for a subject before starting the wheel spinning again.

As for this question, I don't think anyone was trying to "impress you". If you ask a question, you will get answers, if you don't like the answers , don't ask. You are one of about 4,000 people on this site and a lot of new casters need those first pages in the handbook to get started safely.

[kingstrider]

I thought the same thing initially but have wound up using some of the load data. I wish they would update it though, its a terribly outdated manual.

[troy_mclure]

i think that they could make more money, and have better quality stuff, if they would break the book into separate books, like a muzzle loading book, a cbas book, etc...,

and i was expecting to be impressed by the book, since about every noob question asked on here is answered by "get the Lyman cast bullet hand book", i assumed since that so many obviously knowledgeable people recommended it it had to have EVERYTHING i needed to know.

[joeb33050]

In the Introduction to the book, I wrote:
"Information on all aspects of cast bullet shooting is available, but it is spread out and difficult to access for the beginner. This book puts a lot of that information in one place for the beginner as well as providing information on many advanced topics.
It doesn’t tell you everything, it doesn’t take sides in technical disputes and it doesn’t confuse the important with the minutiae.
It provides an overview of bullet casting and shooting, puts a lot of reference material in one place, and mentions books that add to our understanding of cast bullets and shooting.
It must be used with a reloading manual for safe and accurate reloading of cast bullets.
I recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, any edition. All editions."

Today I read through the Lyman book, 3rd edition, 1980. While there are a couple of minor points that I disagree with, I still consider this the absolute best cast bullet handbook.
I don't know if any load listed is dangerous, don't know much about shotguns or muzzleloaders/black powder, but what I do know about is just great.
The second edition is a disappointment, the first edition is the best and most interesting-not the most complete-of them all.

If there are errors, I suggest that the finders note them here in a common pool, to be forwarded to Lyman.

Bret; the first try was done and sent to Rudi Prusok in the middle 90s.

Wakisupi; I don't have a hat.

joe b.

[Bret4207]

As I said, whatever....

[Bret4207]

i think that they could make more money, and have better quality stuff, if they would break the book into separate books, like a muzzle loading book, a cbas book, etc...,

and i was expecting to be impressed by the book, since about every noob question asked on here is answered by "get the Lyman cast bullet hand book", i assumed since that so many obviously knowledgeable people recommended it it had to have EVERYTHING i needed to know.

Troy- they don't CARE. Yeah, we have 8K members and this is a huge site compared to any other cast boolit site. But think about just how many people cast these days, and how many of them buy new moulds or whatever or the book. It can't be more than maybe 1-2% of the shooting public, if that many. Go to a gun show or any big gun shop and strike up a conversation about boolit casting. If you can find 1 or 2% of the people willing to listen, much less that know anything beyond "Cast bullets lead barrels" you'll be doing good. Market share, that all it is. We're a tiny, tiny segment of the shooting public. I bet there isn't really more than 5-10% of the shooting public that reloads.

So think about that and the fact Lyman makes more off sunglasses or handgun grips in a month than they do off casters each year and ask yourself why would they bother to update the book, much less print more specialized books? the internet has made a huge dent in magazine sales and letters to powder companies for loads and things like that. This is where you find the updated loading info. You want loads? Ask away!

[anachronism]

The Lyman manual is an excellent starting point for anyone. Period. Everything you need to get started casting, and to troubleshoot your problems is there. All bullet design development seems to be done at a "boutique" level nowdays. I agree that some of Lymans designs are a bit timeworn, but they're still at a price that most people can afford. As for their manual being part catalog, why not? Hornadys manual doesn't show Sierra bullets. Sierras catalog doesn't show Hornady bullets. If you go to RCBS, they haven't even produced a manual for about 20 years. That said, I'm not a big Lyman fan & haven't been for some time, but I do feel they have made a substantial contribution to casting, and that they continue to do so. Even if it means making unpopular business decisions from time to time.

[HangFireW8]

I don't have a problem with Lyman promoting their own goods in their catalog.

When I see loads using Remington 8-1/2 primers, and a revision date of 2007, I feel ripped off. They feel comfortable using historic primers, but have deleted the historic molds (still in circulation, including in my hands) not currently being sold. Does this make any sense at all?

Not everything Lyman does is wrong. I just returned a problematic new mold and they fixed it up just fine, in 3 weeks no less.

Lyman can feel free to recirculate hoary old loads with obsolete primers and powders in brand new printings. And I can feel free to complain about it, informing new casters so they won't get ripped off- thinking that they are going to get lots and lots of useful loads when paying full retail for a new printing. They won't.

-HF

[SciFiJim]

I guess that rules out the Lyman book for me. At least for now. It might be useful later on when building up my library of reference material.

[troy_mclure]

one of the things about their advertisements, they are all from the 70's/80's. i mean they are too cheap to even print up new advertisements.

[Bret4207]

I guess that rules out the Lyman book for me. At least for now. It might be useful later on when building up my library of reference material.

Jim, I wouldn't hesitate at all to buy any edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet handbooks/manuals. They all have very valuable information in them. I would certainly recommend the Lyman book before the RCBS book and way, way before the Lee book if you want cast info.

My favorite Lyman edition is the 1st edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook.

As far as the "outdated" info- just what do you want? The absolute latest info is available on the web. Hodgdon is the only company I can think of that prints a yearly manual and even that is more of a sales gimmick than complete manual.

I think you guys that are so disappointed need to re think this a little. BTW- when the last edition of the Lyman book came out it was shortly after the US Bicentennial and muzzle loaders were all the rage. This is long before the days of inlines and bolt action ML's (thank god!!!), even before the days of reproduction Sharps and Hi Walls and Stevens 44's and there was no internet to run to to look up old info. When that edition came out it was considered FANTASTIC!

[armyrat1970]

Okay. Didn't read all post but after reading what I did I feel the Lyman is still a pretty good book on casting and handloading with cast bullets. I stopped reading the post after awhile. It seems that alot of posters want everything written out to fully understand what they are doing with casting and loading and get everything right there in black and white. Step by step. After you read a couple of manuals and get a basic understanding you still have to read more. You do have to do some research for yourself at times as casting and handloading has many different senerios. Don't blame the manual because it does not give you the precise info you are looking for. I have the Lyman Third Edition and I think it is one of the best out there. I also have the Lee Second Edition. If you can't get the info you need from these, you can always visit sites like this one and ask questions. Not one single book will have all of the answers. But don't be-little a manual because it may not answer all of your questions or give all of your expected data. That's why it is always best to have a number of manuals to read and collect data from.
As far as cast bullets, the Lyman is one of the best. Even with their load data.

[armyrat1970]

Froggie

PS You don't see me complaining about this site when so many posters drag the topic of wheel weights and their variety of sources, uses, mixes, etc out ad nauseum, yet I personally got past casting significant bullets with those mongrel pieces of antimony contamination 10 years ago and consider them suitable only for sinkers or sailboat keels... I still read the rest of the site and let you guys struggle for your own enlightenment. But that's just me! [smilie=1:

Green Frog[/QUOTE]

Antimony contamination? Sorry but I don't understand what you mean by antimony contamination.

[Green Frog]

AR'70 - I'm one of those purist rifle shooters who has discovered that any antimony content in my alloy for BPCS and or schuetzen w/ BP or smokeless tends to have a deleterious effect on my bullet performance. I don't generally harp on that fact... actually some of my best friends intentionally use antimony and some even vote Democrat. :roll:

When you add to the above the fact that used wheel weights come from a variety of sources, none of which is particularly stringent about the content of their alloy, it becomes obvious to me that all this quest for wheel weights is something I can easily do without. Do I impose that belief on the board? Of course not. Somebody has to do something with all that contaminated scrap, and I have quit fishing and can't afford a sail boat. JMHO - YMMV! :kidding:

Regards,
Froggie :mrgreen:

[NVScouter]

When I got it I was unimpressed too but after moving to other calibers I find it worth the $$...not amazing but worth it.

My major issues:

Green dot by the book works in many of my calibers but I have yet to get it to shoot anything worth a darn...$20 + primers and bullets out the window.

22 Hornet test rifle doesnt take into account a better rifle or .224 barrels. No 22 Hornet data besides 2400 that has worked for me at all, see above.

I have run accross powders that simply do not exist anymore or have changed like good old 2400. I have an old keg of 2400 so its fine but I know that when that is gone I'm back to creating new loads.

[armyrat1970]

AR'70 - I'm one of those purist rifle shooters who has discovered that any antimony content in my alloy for BPCS and or schuetzen w/ BP or smokeless tends to have a deleterious effect on my bullet performance. I don't generally harp on that fact... actually some of my best friends intentionally use antimony and some even vote Democrat. :roll:

When you add to the above the fact that used wheel weights come from a variety of sources, none of which is particularly stringent about the content of their alloy, it becomes obvious to me that all this quest for wheel weights is something I can easily do without. Do I impose that belief on the board? Of course not. Somebody has to do something with all that contaminated scrap, and I have quit fishing and can't afford a sail boat. JMHO - YMMV! :kidding:

Regards,
Froggie :mrgreen:

Froggie please explain. What ill effect does antimony have on any alloy that you cast and load with? Really I would like to know. Maybe I am wasting my time with smelting and trying to keep as much antimony in the melt as I can. I know softer bullets fill out better in the bore but can you drive them to as much velocity. Do you run a chance of a gas leak around the softer base if driven to hard? No pun intended. I would really like some clarification.