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9.3X62AL
02-12-2006, 02:10 PM
Marie and I went to a shop in Hemet on Saturday to complete the acquisition end of a gun trade I did 10 days earlier........(expletive deleted) CA gun laws.......anyway, when I was there on the prior visit, I saw one of the new SIG-Sauer Mosquito pistols in the display case, and was very impressed with the little critter. Apparently, a lot of other people are also liking them--the store has sold a bunch of them since they were introduced a short time ago, and they are gaining a rep for being VERY accurate.

I got busy doing the dispo paperwork, and directed Marie to the pistol display case, pointing out the Mosquito. She took a look at it, and asking a few questions while she examined it--said "I'll take it!" to the sales guy.

Didn't expect THAT!

The pistol is basically a rimfire version of the P-226/P-220 series pistols, reduced about 10% in size. Controls and switches are located in the same places as on the big sibling pistols, and the price is about half that of the centerfire variants. That's a little pricey for a "plinker" pistol, but their accuracy seems to belie that description. The few 22 LR conversion units out there for centerfire service pistols don't cost very much less than the Mosquito did, either.

Marie gets a new toy--as soon as The Governator blesses the acquisition, anyway.

StarMetal
02-12-2006, 02:14 PM
Way cool Deputy Al. Way to go Marie. We'll expect some shooting reports after Arnie approves your application.

Joe

carpetman
02-12-2006, 02:16 PM
Dep Al--Be sure Marie gets a malaria shot before she shoots it.

9.3X62AL
02-12-2006, 09:24 PM
She's good to go on that score--she got the shots in the service (Army nurse).

NVcurmudgeon
02-12-2006, 09:45 PM
Congratulations on adding a new pistol to the family arsenal. Here's hoping Marie will allow you to borrow it occasionally. Fran has aquired my S&W Kit Gun by some esoteric feminine interpretation of adverse possession. If she wants to play that kind of hardball, I'll just keep the Police Positive Special I got for her!

Buckshot
02-13-2006, 08:54 AM
................So what did Marie say about the new (to you) Remington 581 rifle?

.................Buckshot

9.3X62AL
02-13-2006, 04:42 PM
Rick--

She said, "Thank you!" She liked the fit of it, after I attached the scope. DOH!!

I think it will be joining the ranks of nice guns that disappear after acquisition. I am beginning to suspect the presence of a floor safe as yet undiscovered by your correspondent. She is nice enough to let me play with the Colt OMT once in a while.

wills
02-13-2006, 05:43 PM
Rick--

I think it will be joining the ranks of nice guns that disappear after acquisition. I am beginning to suspect the presence of a floor safe as yet undiscovered by your correspondent. She is nice enough to let me play with the Colt OMT once in a while.

One would those guns might mysteriously reappear when they are in need of cleaning.

9.3X62AL
04-24-2006, 12:50 PM
Yes, Wills--the diverted firearms DO show up for cleaning periodically.

We took a Sunday drive yesterday out to the Eastern Mojave Desert, and had a fine time indeed. Warm, winds were light, and just a gorgeous day all around. Along for the ride was the SIG-Sauer Mosquito for its long-delayed shooting debut and review.

A little technical stuff--as mentioned above, it resembles a SIG-Sauer P-226 that got shrunk in the wash. It has a polymer frame and steel slide, blowback-operated as you would expect, and the controls are in all the same places you would expect to see them if you're familiar with the SIG P-220/226 series pistols.

That was the good part. Additionally, the pistol has a safety lever reminiscent of a Desert Eagle on the slide's rear surface. This safety isn't what I'd call ergonomically designed, though. The pistol also has a magazine disconnect safety, and a mainspring lock device as well. They may have left a safety out someplace, but I couldn't find one--or a place to put one, for that matter. Last but not least--in keeping with the current fashion trends for service pistols, the receiver has a tool rail for mounting a light, a laser, or something else as yet undreamed-of just ahead of the trigger guard. We'll call this paragraph the Superfluous Elements Category, and be done with it.

More good things--the pistol comes with two slide springs--the one on board from the factory is for standard velocity and high velocity ammunition, and the second spring is to accomodate hyper-velocity ammo. There are three front sight posts of varying height to adjust elevation, and the rear sight is windage-adjustable via screw turns. These sights are GREAT service sights--square and clean, good light aperture, with 3-dot elements the operator can enjoy or ignore as desired.

The pistol field-strips very much like a Beretta 81/84 series pistol. With magazine removed and "cleared" pistol confirmed, the disassembly lever is pivoted 180* (not 90* like the P-220/226), and at that point the Beretta-esque procedures take hold. The slide is pulled fully rearward and the rear of the slide pivoted upward, allowing the slide to go forward off the barrel and be separated from the receiver/barrel assembly. The recoil spring and its guide rod are below and parallel to the line of bore, and are removable at this point in the process. This pistol and the Walther PP-series 22 LR's are among the easiest 22 LR semi-autos to field-strip that I've dealt with--refreshing indeed, after messing around with the Ruger semi-autos.

The pistol's magazines hold 10 rounds, and the follower has retractor buttons along the magazine's side to assist in filling the critters. No surprises there.

I had Remington and Federal Hi-Velocity HP's and Winchester Dynapoints along for the shakedown cruise. Impressively, Marie's first three magazine-fulls of Rem HP's fed and functioned without a bobble. The point of impact was about 2" high at 35 yards with the factory-installed front post in place, and at 50 yards the Rem HP's hit about 2.5" high. That's not a bad "hunting zero", and until better paper results can be had--we left the sights alone. Windage was right on.

Shooting offhand, 12 oz. Coke cans had no chance at 35 yards. At 50 yards, the hit rate went down a bit--maybe 70% or so--but the little Mosquito bit 'em more often than not. I would be very confident of shots taken at jacks or ground squirrels at 50 yards with this pistol--it doesn't give up much to my Ruger 22/45 x 5.5", about equal to the S&W K-22, and a damn sight more accurate in my hands than any of the Kit Guns I've tried (and given up on) over the years.

The only real "negative" element noted was the pistol's trigger. This may improve over time, but the double action trigger stroke is awful--half again more tension/resistance than most D/A autopistol triggers, and particularly disappointing in a SIG-Sauer. The single action stroke was overlong in take-up and had a "spongy" subjective feel to it. I learned after playing around with it that the trigger would reset without releasing all the way back through that sponginess, and once you "learned" the trigger--it wasn't all that bad in single-action mode. No way in hell it's anything like our P-226 or P-228, though.

After about 200 rounds without a cleaning, the pistol started getting a little balky when releasing the slide to chamber the first round in a fresh magazine, and there were a few failures to feed now and then. This continued through another 100 rounds of firing, and did not worsen. 100 further rounds of Federal HP's behaved similarly, so the pistol needed a cleaning. This is typical 22 LR semi-auto pistol behavior, and given that the pistol is brand new--I don't count these few stoppages as problematic.

Overall, I like the little pistol a lot. Its accuracy exceeded my expectations. Ergonomics are good, as is the case with its older bigger brothers. Its trigger characteristics prevent the pistol from being considered a capable sub-caliber trainer for someone carrying the centerfire SIGs in harm's way--that's just an opinion. SIG-Sauer pistols share with Glock the reputation for being "ready to go" service arms right out of the box--no shakedown cruise required, just lube it--load it--and sally forth. This little pistol falls a little short of that TALL ORDER, but considering its caliber I think the little pistol did a very fine job reliability-wise. Its first 30 rounds were fired by a moderately experienced shooter, and ZERO failures occurred. I fired at least 100 more rounds after this, without a bobble. Marie ran another 150 or so before the first failure to recharge occurred. It just needs a cleaning, that's all--it's a 22!

The Mosquito is just the right size and weight for a "trail pistol". I am able to wring MUCH better accuracy from it than I ever could from J-frame S&W's. The Mosquito sells for about half the price of a P-220/226 series centerfire, but about 125 dollars more than the current Walther line of similarly-sized 22 LR pistols. I have no experience with the newer series Walthers, but the Mosquito is a WHOLE LOT more accurate than the PP's x 22 LR I've tried. I would pay a few more dollars for a better trigger--that trigger and its whatzis safeties REALLY detract from an otherwise splendid concept and platform.

StarMetal
04-24-2006, 12:59 PM
Deputy Al,

I have to laugh at that name Mosquito. Reminds me of when Mad Magazine did a cut down on the TV series "Kungfu" and David Carradines name in the series when he was in the monk training school was Grasshopper, given to him the old Master. Mad called him Mosquito in their magazne [smilie=l: Anyways sounds like a right nice 22 pistol. Since it came with all that other stuff did it come with an extra magazine?

Joe

9.3X62AL
04-24-2006, 03:15 PM
No, the pistols sold in USA only get one magazine sent with them. Pistols sold in Europe have 2 magazines in the kit. Why that is--I have no clue. We bought an extra mag when we picked up the pistol.

StarMetal
04-24-2006, 03:57 PM
Deputy Al,

Must be because Americans are better shots!! :Fire:

Joe

BruceB
04-24-2006, 04:37 PM
Yep, Marie holds true to her reputation for good taste. Sounds like a fine addition to the live-in guns.

I keep looking at various .22 rimfires, but since getting into casting it seems that our .22s pretty much have become "safe queens" and don't get much sunlight. Sentiments about S&W Kit Guns reflect my experience, too....sweet little guns, but I couldn't hit much of anything with the one we had. and it moved on.

I well remember the culminating incident... a "fool hen" grouse allowed me TWELVE rounds from the Kit Gun from less than twenty FEET, and then flew off chuckling to itself. I was trying for head shot(s!) but damn...I shoulda been able to LUCK one in from that range! Shortly afterward, a friend made an offer, and bye-bye Kit Gun. I STILL have a jones for a M17/18 K-frame .22, despite comments above about lack of sunshine for the .22s. One of the K-22s will undoubtedly catch me in a weak moment and move in. Also, I'm a S&W junkie of the worst sort, and any .22 double-action revolver coming home with me WILL BE a Smith and Wesson, no bones about it!

My own lady had been using a 9mm Firestar as her vehicle gun for many moons, until she began making trips to Reno and Las Vegas by herself. It now comes to pass that "her" truck gun is now our SIG P-220 in .45, stuffed with 230 Hydra-Shoks and with a second loaded magazine close by. She really likes the "ready-to-go" double action design, with no need to agonize about ....Cocked? Uncocked? Safety on/off? With the 220, it's just pick up gun, pull trigger, repeat as necessary. Very simple, and utterly reliable.

The 220 is completely trouble-free with any cast-bullet load I've tried in it, which is a nice thing to know. It gets cleaned rigorously immediately after any recreational shooting, leaving it absolutely pristine, lubed and ready to run in the defensive mode if needed. Same with any of our active-service defensive guns, but I'm not that anal about cleaning most of our other guns after each shoot. Too bad about the trigger on the Mosquito, but it may smooth out with use.

Less than a month to NCBS!

9.3X62AL
04-24-2006, 06:26 PM
I have designs on a SIG P-220 myself, but those will have to wait a bit. One of the cars had a clutch destroy itself, which took $890 that could have been better spent on a 45 ACP pistol or outboard motor.......groan. That's about six grand this year on auto repairs so far, and it's only late April.

I don't think the Kit Guns are necessarily "inaccurate" per se--I just can't get any J-frame S&W to shoot well in my big hands. I've owned 2 Kit Guns, 2 Hand Ejector 32 SWL's, and a Chief's Special--in spite of custom grips, none of them would shoot for beans with me at the helm. The Walther PP in 22 LR just plain wasn't accurate--I shoot the PP in 32 very well, that's probably the platform's best caliber. The 32's usually drive tacks. The S&W M-617 (6-shot) is a little fussy about ammo, but with chow to its liking it does very well.

StarMetal
04-24-2006, 06:45 PM
Al,

Why didn't you have Buckshot put that clutch in your car? He's an old motor head. God, unless I get so old I can't turn a wrench I sure as hell am not paying that for a clutch. I just put new brake rotors and pads on my Dakota, top of the line NAPA parts, for 125 bucks. Sorry I don't believe in getting rotors turned as I've had the worse luck for all the places I've ever had them turned that they weren't turned true. Beside at $13 to turn them brand new ones were $30.

Joe

StarMetal
04-24-2006, 06:48 PM
I have a stainless 22 kit gun inhereted from my Dad. Now I do half decent with revolvers and pistols, have a 617 that shoots like a damn semi-auto target pistol, but that kit gun is HARD to shoot for some reason. Don't feel bad Bruce, it wasn't you, it's the darn gun. Like Al said they are not inaccurate, just hard to shoot accurate. Might be they are so small, light, and have a short barrel, thus short sighting radius. Also I don't shoot handguns well that have those darn red inserts on the front sights and my kit gun does.

Joe

9.3X62AL
04-24-2006, 07:33 PM
Joe--

If it had not been a VW Cabrio with front wheel drive transaxle, I would have done the work myself. The unit is a lot like a motorcycle clutch, and I have a guy who does great work on VW's as kind of a hobby. $550 was the price of the OEM pressure plate, disc, and throwout bearing/shaft assembly. $340 for labor was worth it to me, since I have zero knowledge of the mechanism.

I do a lot of the vehicle repairs around here, and Lord knows I have enough of them to keep me occupied--6 of them currently, and teenaged drivers that stress mechanisms with a vengeance resembling the Blitzkrieg.

NVcurmudgeon
04-24-2006, 08:34 PM
Ah yes, the lure of the Kit Gun. Much like a drop-dead beautiful woman who is as trustworthy and as personable as a wolverine. I have a 4" Model 34 bought new in 1970, in excellent condition. It is a frequent hiking and fishing companion, and thanks to my skinny chicken-stealing hands and a Tyler's T-Grip I can sometimes actually hit something with it. For best results the something must be located within fifty feet. Being happy with a Kit Gun requires accepting it for what it is; a thing of beauty and a joy forever, but not to be confused with a target pistol.

onceabull
04-24-2006, 08:46 PM
Dep.Al & NVcurmudgeon: and here I thought everyone raised up in Kalif. knew about the marketing agreement Colt & S&W had..S&W built/sold those wondrous" Kitguns. eventually the buyers met someone with a Colt Woodsman Sport,and Colt got the final sale.. Onceabull[smilie=1:

StarMetal
04-24-2006, 09:35 PM
Gosh Allen...NAPA, which by the way I think sells a quality replacement part, sells a complete clutch set (which is the pressure plate, clutch disc, pilot bushing, and some other part I couldn't distinguish in the photo) for under $300 dollars. Motorcycle clutches are entirely different in my opinion. They are a bunch of multiple clutch discs and plates very much like what a clutch pack is in an automatic car transmission. I assume this VW is a stick since you mention pressure plate and clutch. Don't forget that price above is for all the parts...not just the pressure plate. You would have to have your flywheel turned if it needed it though, but no big expense there at all. Buckshot could even turn it down for you. :drinks: for a couple beers.

Joe

9.3X62AL
04-25-2006, 12:56 AM
That price is for all the parts, Joe. I'll spend 340 bucks to let someone else re-surface the flywheel, get greasy and dirty, and run down the parts on an operation I'm unfamiliar with. To be more clear, the clutch's disengagement sequence is a lot like a motorcycle's. Not my idea of fun to mess with, thanks. I've done a lot of clutch work in NORMAL, AMERICAN cars and trucks--and would do it again with a conventional drive train. At my age, I'm no longer interested in learning new automotive moves while lying on my back on gritty concrete. I'd rather go shooting, fishing, hunting, or cast boolits as my dotage approaches apace.

longhorn
04-26-2006, 11:13 PM
Ah, Kit Guns! My favorite was a 2" nickel one, with lovely Herrett stocks. Could hardly hit the ground with it, but it was a looker! My current "walk the dog in snake season" is a 317-the superlight version. Feels like a cap pistol in the pocket and hand, and shoots pretty well at rattlesnake distance--but definitely likes a steady hand. What I really want is a 3" Mdl 60 (?) with adjustable sights and loaded with .357 shot - anybody have any experience with snakes and .357 shot cartridges? And, no, I don't just kill any snake I see out in the great wide open, I'm just cleaning up my little corner of paradise, to steal a phrase from Skeeter Skelton.

NVcurmudgeon
04-27-2006, 12:18 AM
Longhorn, you sure live in a pretty part of your state. I really enjoyed a trip to the hill country, Fredericksburg was the high point, and of course the pilgramage to the Alamo which every American needs to make. Re snake loads, in my foolish youth I used to load a target load of Bullseye, then a gas check, fill the case with #8 shot, and finally a heavy roll crimp over an inverted gas check. Deadly from a Python, but I never tried them much past ten feet.

NVcurmudgeon
04-27-2006, 12:27 AM
Dep.Al & NVcurmudgeon: and here I thought everyone raised up in Kalif. knew about the marketing agreement Colt & S&W had..S&W built/sold those wondrous" Kitguns. eventually the buyers met someone with a Colt Woodsman Sport,and Colt got the final sale.. Onceabull[smilie=1:

Onceabull, you must be looking over my shoulder. My favorite pistol of all time is one of the very last Colt Woodsman Sport Models ever made. That is one of the two untouchable guns in my accumulation. Even I can hit with the Woodsman, it's fired about 12,000 rounds without missing a lick, and even shot low level bullseye competition for years.

onceabull
04-27-2006, 12:59 AM
Longhorn: I have sent many a rattler to final rest with 38 sp. or 357 snake loads(commercial) I walked point for a small group on regular trips in Hells Canyon for about 10 years so opportunity came calling frequently. GOT TO BE CLOSE UP.. Prefer a full charge of Chukar shot which in 20 G or larger will close them out as far as I can see them... Onceabull

Buckshot
04-27-2006, 02:56 AM
..............I got to shoot Marie's new Sig 22RF at the range Tuesday. Not a negative, but to me the polymer frame/steel slide pistols just feel funny to me. All the weight is up above your fist and to me (having held only 2 such pistols) it seems odd. Recoil appears more noticeable with them.

The above is just personal and reflects nothing bad about the pistol's ability to shoot. I picked a softball sized rock on the 50 yard berm as a target. Due to the muzzle lift during recoil I could only see a split fraction of a seconds' effect before it was covered by the front end. If I didn't hit it often I hit it sufficiently enough for me to be impressed with it's ability as a "Never held in my hands" pistol. The rock broke on the last shot, and Al said, "It's a dead rock".

The last round failed to lock the slide back, but as Al said, it was a new pistol and after all those rounds the day before, plus Tuesday's it was getting a bit filthy. As Al mentioned, the trigger at first seemed to take forever to pull back. Not hard, just long. However, in the SA mode you did not have to pull it back like that each time.

When it fired I could feel the trigger 'kick' slightly forward and could feel the disconnector operate so the trigger was practicly set for the next shot almost instantaneously. I think if you had to you could fire the thing REALLY fast!

..............Buckshot

StarMetal
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
Buckshot,

GunTest Magazine called me about hiring you for their testing staff....you interested?? :Fire:

Joe

9.3X62AL
04-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Yeah, it's a fun little pistol once you adjust to its quirks. I'm hoping to do a little more informal target work with the critter this coming weekend as we head out to the desert for more of Marie's rockhounding. It's not a High Standard or a Woodsman, not even quite a Ruger accuracy-wise......but all in all, I think it's a keeper, and certainly the best combination of compactness and accuracy I've ever tried in a 22 LR handgun. I suspect it will come along to NCBS for some test drives by those so inclined.

On another front--we see yet again that in spite of Buckshot's professed lack of knowledge and experience with handguns, he conducts himself right well and capably with the shorter guns--and is conversant on the subject as well. What a hustle this whole "I don't care much for handguns" scam has been.

Onceabull--complete dittoes on the 20 bore (minimum) and #5-#6 shot method vs. buzztails. Rattlesnakes are among God's creations/inspirations--along with Jane Fonda, the Electoral College, and British positively-grounded vehicles--that cause one to wonder what He was thinking about at the time of the concept's development.