Need a little help with this old pot

[beanflip]

IF I was to use this what kind of gas is to be used?

Is this pot safe to use?

How does a person operate this thing?

The tank smells like old old gas.

Just found this thing need some help so maybe I can use it

Or is it worth even trying to get it to work?

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
On the bottom is there a factory stamp or a brass name plate ? Looks like the lead melter the plumber used to pour the joints on the 4" cast pipe joints.
Mike in Peru

[Gerry N.]

It's a plumber's lead furnace that burns white gas, AKA coleman fuel. The ones currently in use, (yes, some are still used) usually burn propane. That thing will go through coleman fuel so fast it will make your head spin and at the current price of coleman will bankrupt you in minutes. Regular automotive fuel will work in it for a while, then it will plug the jet. As it smells of old gasoline, that's probably what has happened already.

Save the pot and ladle, they will work very nicely on a turkey fryer burner. Toss or stash the burner.

Your mileage, as always, may vary.

(PS: If you're going to salvage fishing weights, be very, very careful. I've had some explode on me as water can wick it's way down those insidious, vile little brass eyelets.)

Gerry N.

[beanflip]

Nothing at all no name plates or stamping of any kind anywhere on this.

[GP100man]

+1 for Gerrys recommendation!!!
that old gas furnace with the jet stopped up & contaminated tank would not make the decision hard to opt for a turkey burner !!!
the pot & ladle though look nostilgic & kool!!

GP100man:castmine:

[Cowboy5780]

I dont know if its availble near you but the Amoco white gas works as good as the coleman fuel and is only $$$$$$$ a gallon

[Bret4207]

Bosh!!! I have a very similar model of gasoline plumbers furnace and it works fine with straight regular unleaded. First off, this is an OUTSIDE TOY ONLY!!!! You need a bit of space to use one of these. I suggest you rinse the tank with gas and dump the filthy stuff in a responsible manner. Make sure the control works, it's a simple valve. Fill the tank about 3/4 full, pump up some pressure (put a little oil on the pump stem), and tuen the valve on. You should see/smell gas. Get it out in the open and turn the valve open, you should see the gas pooling around the base. Light it and get back. There will be a period where you're pretty sure the whole thing is on fire, but in a couple minutes things will heat up and you'll start hearing a jet like roaring sound. That's when the fire will die down to a blue flame about 2" wide and 10" high coming from the center of the furnace. I recommend you have you pot and lead on before you light it. Putting a cold pot on that flame might result in it cracking.

My furnace will melt 80-100 lbs of lead in 15 minutes. When it seems to be getting dirty and starts dying occasionally I run a can of carb cleaner/fuel injector cleaner like Sea Foam of Berrymans B-12 though it.

This is a man toy. Fire, gasoline, loud noise, a certain amount of danger. Try it, you'll like it!

[GLL]

Restore it ! Great fun ! Sounds like a jet ready for take-off !

Move kids and pets to neighbor's house ! Use it only in the MIDDLE of the back yard ! :) :)

Jerry

[Hipshot]

Naptha will also work nicely-------price ???

Hip

[7of7]

I picked one up on ebay, 100 bucks...two pots, ladles and it was rusty... Speaking of Rusty,... It now has its name,... Rusty had his nozzle a bit plugged so I took all the lines apart from the valve on,.. I put some oil on the valve and worked that in, and it works great... The other coil tube, wasn't dirty inside, however the nozzle tube was.. a little work with a scribe, and all is good.
I use a propane torch to light it and help warm it up... if you get the coil tube warm, it does pretty good, and I get more of a fireball effect... kind of cool... Reminds me of the old blow torches my grandfather had. The flame doesn't form at the nozzle, it forms up by the coil tube.
I may have to dump the gas in Rusty's belly out, cause that may be the source of some stuff causing him to go out... I will probably do like Bret says and run some carb cleaner through it....
Oh, and the pump piston had some nice soft leather too,... so at least he was kept oiled in that area...
I am amazed at how Rusty will cook lead,... gets it hot, and quick,... In my opinion, an excellent choice for smelting,.. Then you can use your electric one for the casting as the lead will be clean...

[7of7]

Next time I fire Rusty up, I will have my son take some pictures of us... Hopefully, it won't be the knight and the fire breathing dragon type....LOL

[Bret4207]

That coil that gets heated has a rope like steel cable running through it. If that got rusty it'll clog up the outlet. I used torch drills to get mine opened. I'm going to try running some 2 cycle mix through mine someday to see if that works. At 50:1 it might preserve the cable and still work good.

I still use a gasoline blowtorch too. I may be the only one left doing that, but I don't own a rosebud for my torches and O/A is still expensive compared to pump gas. The gas blowtorch is a lot hotter than propane too.

[montana_charlie]

There's one for sale on eBay with about three days to go. Price (right now) is fifty bucks, and no bids. It looks like it was maintained better than most of those that you see...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-SMELTING-POT-CAST-IRON-BUCKET-AND-LADLE_W0QQitemZ170316345678QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDeco rative_Collectibles?hash=item170316345678&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

CM

[Bret4207]

Charlie, that's the same as mine, minus the cheesy paint job. I gave $5.00 at a flea market.

[shaggist]

How many of you use the old time Plumber's Lead Furnace. Many of these were made, primarily by Clayton and Lambert, for use by plumbers to join cast iron waste pipe. These furnaces used 'white gas', but will work with today's Regular Unleaded or Coleman fuel (if you have a lot of money to spend). I have seen a post that said they used kerosene, but I haven't tried it yet. They will melt 40 lbs of WWs for cleaning, fluxing, and pouring ingots in about 5 minutes. They are dangerous, make alot of noise, and work better than anything on the market today. The Perfect Caster's Toy!

HOW TO LIGHT A PLUMBER'S LEAD FURNACE

NEVER LIGHT THE FURNACE INDOORS
ALWAYS USE IT ON A LEVEL SURFACE
ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD FIRE EXTINGUISHER AT HAND
IF A FIRE STARTS, TURN OFF BIG GAS VALVE ASAP
DON'T DRINK AND MELT

1. Clean out the tank of any old gas.
2. Check the leather washer in the air pump to make sure it is soft and flexible. Lubricate with some vaseline to get a good seal. Don't fold it when re-inserting.
3. Pump the empty tank to pressurize to check that the gas feed lines aren't stopped up with old gas. Open the primary valve(large handle) with the gas feed valve(small handle) closed and apply soapy water to each pipe joint to check for leaks(the soap mix will bubble). If any leaks are found, tighten joints to stop them, as they will cause a disaster if you try to run the furnace with a leak anywhere.
4. With no leaks, fill about 3/4 full of unleaded regular gas or Colemen fuel, and, with both valves closed, pressurize the tank to a medium level(judge by how hard it is to pump the air handle).
5. Open the big valve and CHECK FOR LEAKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. If none, either pour some denatured alcohol in the warmer cup under the heater coil inside the windshield, or open the little valve slightly to dribble some gas into the warmer cup. Close the little valve and light the fuel in the warmer cup.
7. When the flame has almost died out, open the little valve slightly and the burner should light. It will pulse and roar. If your underdrawers are still clean, proceed. When the roar has settled down, adjust the flame so that it is not above the burner top, so that it won't blow itself out. When the flame is steady, put the crucible on the burner and start adding lead.

NEVER OPERATE THIS MACHINE WITHOUT ALL THE PRECAUTIONS THAT YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
IT CAN BLOW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I just arrived on this Sticky, having just gotten a melter of my own.

I've gone through all the material here and find it "right-on".

I wonder if anyone has tried to operate their heater on Jet-A? I bet it would work, hell, that pre-heater tube runs red-hot in my melter ~ plenty hot enough to vaporize Jet-A any day of the week.

Also, be advised that the red stuff visible on Beanflip's pot and ladle is Lead Oxide. Now it is known that lead is poisonous, sure, but the stuff that may be absorbed most readily by our systems is, you guessed it; Lead Oxide. Treat any such material in your casting operation as if it were deadly poison ~ it is.

Good evening,
Forrest

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy333/Forrest_Asmus/IMG_0050.jpg

[shaggist]

Although designed to work on White Gas(pre-unleaded unleaded), these furnaces will work on Unleaded Gas or Coleman Fuel(expensive!). I'll bet that, with the proper pre-heating, they will work on kerosene or Jet-A(more highly refined kerosene). As soon as it cools off a bit, I'm going to try mine on kerosene by pre-heating the vaporizer coil with 3 pre-heater cups of denatured alcohol. I wish I could get Jet-A here, but entry into any of the airplane maintenance facilities here locally is so restricted as to be impossible. Fears of terrorist sabotage, I suppose. You can substiture Low Odor Mineral Spirits, but at $12.00/gallon, I'll have to pass there also. Let us know your results with experimentation with fuels, as kerosene is more expensive than Unleaded Regular around here, but I like the fact that kero will burn but not explode.

[FAsmus]

Shaggist;

In my previous life I was a professional pilot and I maintain certain contacts from that time; Jet-A will be pretty much free, as needed.

I figure that a bit of careful preheating by (whatever means) will result in a good hot fire from the burner can. I think my first try would be to pre-heat by means of a conventional pumber's blow torch with the tank pressurized and ready to go with a fill of Jet-A

Do you have any comments about regulating the heat via controlling the tank pressure? I ask because I intend to use this melter not only for rendering down WW and so forth but for primary heat-source for casting bullets.

Good evening,
Forrest

[Tristan]

I was just gifted a old-style Plumber's furnace. It was clogged, but after a 90% tear down and clean up, removal of the lead drippings in the nozzle, it appears as it will function as designed - except for 1 thing. The pump mechanism (the 10% I didn't tear down yet) pumps and pressurizes well, but the pump handle climbs back to the up position by itself. Haven't tried to light it up yet, until I get a couple questions resolved.

So, my questions:

1. Does the pump mechanism have some sort of check-valve, that may be dirty or corroded? Any suggestions for this issue?
2. Seems like everyone is using unleaded gas, but some were to test with Jet-A; can anyone report success or failure with that test? The unit I have had a mineral spirits/kerosene smell in the tank, and the person who gifted it to me was sure it was for Kero.
3. The design has a cup below the vaporizer coil, much like a Coleman's Kerosene lantern. Is this to be used for the same purpose, i.e. to pre-heat the coil with denatured alcohol?

Thanks for all the help!

-Tristan

[FAsmus]

Tristan:

That is picking up on a very old thread!

I re-read the comments of members from way back in '10 and they have good insights to offer.

I have a plumber's torch these days which pump handle comes out when the tank is pressurized. I have not dis-assembled the pump since it still works OK. I assume there is a check-valve in there somewhere but I would not know how to fix it until I took it apart.

I have tried using automotive fuel in my furnaces but as a member says - it will always contaminate the burner system. There are too many additives in the stuff to burn cleanly: Regardless of price, stick with Colman fuel.

All pre-heating systems work the same. ~ Even though I once tried Jet-A I didn't stick with it. I do not know of a Colman Kerosene lantern - all I have ever seen or used are 'white gas' or Colman fuel.

Good evening, Forrest

[30Carbine]

the old one I started out with the pump knob screwed down to hold it down.
yes unleaded gas never tried anything else
yes put alcohol in cup and light when it's almost burned out open valve, stand back and wait it will make all kinds of noise at first scares the h--ll out of you the first time.

[Tristan]

Forrest and 30Carbine, thanks for the info.

- Tristan

[Florida_Orange]

I have a question. I have a Clayton & Lambert that I bought at a garage sale. It came with gasoline in it. No telling how old the gas was. Prior to reading this post I was fiddling around with it. I pressurized it and then opened the valve just a little and was sprayed in the face with gasoline. Thus I felt I should read up on it before accidentally igniting myself on fire. Following the directions in this post, I dumped out the old gas and cleaned it up a little. (perhaps the following isn't the right thing to do) but while trying to understand why it sprayed me in the face, I filled it with water, pressurized it and opened the valve. it sprayed a fine stream of water six feet into the air. I'm thinking that can't be what it's supposed to do....Is it?
132761

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There is a current website that deals primarily with the collection, restoration and use of gasoline blowtorches and plumbers' units as well. Many brands and models are mentioned and the main thrust is safety as you can imagine. LLS

[denjhill]

I've been using the same furnace since about 1960. Always used regular gasoline. Not a problem. Added a Schrader valve (tire valve) so I can simply pressurize with my compressor line and do away with the hand pump. Blow out the innards and pipes once in awhile with compressed air to keep it clean. Simple tool that just keeps working. Use it now as a forge for heating steel.

[StuBach]

Well aware this post is very old but, similar to others, I have found myself in possession of one of these Clayton and Lambers and was lucky enough to get ahold of a gentleman on Youtube who has restored one and he created a phenomenal video for how to use one. Thought I would share with the group.

https://youtu.be/-Vvg5Q8rIN0

Here are the tips he gave me that seem to make sense though I'll be honest I am just sharing what he shared with me as to help others.

If these furnaces are in good condition then they are pretty much no problem to run. However…
If the tank bottom is rusted out, it could be a ticking bomb. If the rusted tank bottom blows while it’s running and full of fuel it could be fatal. In fact, Clayton and Lambert no longer makes liquid fueled appliances, they make swimming pools now. That’s because of a big lawsuit where one of these exploded and burned a guy almost to death. They lost the suit and shut their furnace business down.

So… for safety, you’ll need to...
1. check that the tank is really sound and not perfed with rust. Poke the bottom with a screwdriver to find soft or rotten spots.
2. you may be able to soak the existing leather pump cup in oil and renew it. But, if it has perished, you’ll need to make a new one.
3. Probably need a new pump gasket where it meets the tank.
4. should check the condition of the fuel filler gasket ( I think I recall that it’s lead, so probably is okay, but check anyway so you don’t get boom and so you can pump pressure into the tank)

To run it…
1. use Coleman fuel as your grandpas gasoline is pretty much nothing like todays crappy gasoline with its ethanol and all sorts of additives in it, I wouldn’t fill the tank very full until you’ve got it working better, always allow a good airspace so you can pressure it, maybe 2/3 full at most once you’ve got it working well. just an inch or so until you’ve verified it is okay

2. That coiled tube is your generator. There’s a braided wire cable inside it that can get clogged up with crappy gasoline. Coleman fuel will help clean that out. The generator needs to be preheated so it can get hot and turn liquid fuel into a vapor/gas. There should be a dish under the coil and that gets filled with Coleman fuel and lit to burn and preheat the coil generator. BUT, you’ll have a lot cleaner preheat if you use denatured alcohol instead of Coleman to preheat. Less soot and yellow flames. You can get denatured at Home Depot and other box home supply stores.

3. so put some fuel in the tank and pump some air into the tank with your pump. Put some denatured in the little dish and light it. Let it preheat the coil. When almost all the denatured has burned away, start opening the valve. Vaporized fuel should come out the little orifice, catch fire from the last of the preheat fuel and shoot flame up through the center of the coil. Don’t open the valve more than a couple of turns.

I like to use mineral oil like you get at the drug store for my leather pump cups. It’s a petroleum product, but you can eat it, so I reckon it’s safe for pump cups. It never goes rancid or gets gummy.

You do have a cup under your generator coil. Yours is just full of solder/lead and other garbage. Mine looked like yours when I got it, too.

I’d suggest lighting it outside with a fire extinguisher handy the first time around. Don’t fill the tank until you have it all figured out.

A squirt or two of carburetor cleaner in the Coleman fuel can help to melt out the old cruddy deposits from rancid gasoline.

Rinsing the tank with Coleman before you try to run it might be good, too. Just put some in and swish it around, then pour it out. Could keep your jet from clogging on tank debris.



Hopefully others will find this info and find it as helpful as I did.

Giving Credit where it is due: this info was from correspondence I had with BernieDawg from http://www.berniedawg.com based on a C&L restoration he did around the same time this post was originally started.

[mac1911]

Well aware this post is very old but, similar to others, I have found myself in possession of one of these Clayton and Lambers and was lucky enough to get ahold of a gentleman on Youtube who has restored one and he created a phenomenal video for how to use one. Thought I would share with the group.

https://youtu.be/-Vvg5Q8rIN0

Here are the tips he gave me that seem to make sense though I'll be honest I am just sharing what he shared with me as to help others.

If these furnaces are in good condition then they are pretty much no problem to run. However…
If the tank bottom is rusted out, it could be a ticking bomb. If the rusted tank bottom blows while it’s running and full of fuel it could be fatal. In fact, Clayton and Lambert no longer makes liquid fueled appliances, they make swimming pools now. That’s because of a big lawsuit where one of these exploded and burned a guy almost to death. They lost the suit and shut their furnace business down.

So… for safety, you’ll need to...
1. check that the tank is really sound and not perfed with rust. Poke the bottom with a screwdriver to find soft or rotten spots.
2. you may be able to soak the existing leather pump cup in oil and renew it. But, if it has perished, you’ll need to make a new one.
3. Probably need a new pump gasket where it meets the tank.
4. should check the condition of the fuel filler gasket ( I think I recall that it’s lead, so probably is okay, but check anyway so you don’t get boom and so you can pump pressure into the tank)

To run it…
1. use Coleman fuel as your grandpas gasoline is pretty much nothing like todays crappy gasoline with its ethanol and all sorts of additives in it, I wouldn’t fill the tank very full until you’ve got it working better, always allow a good airspace so you can pressure it, maybe 2/3 full at most once you’ve got it working well. just an inch or so until you’ve verified it is okay

2. That coiled tube is your generator. There’s a braided wire cable inside it that can get clogged up with crappy gasoline. Coleman fuel will help clean that out. The generator needs to be preheated so it can get hot and turn liquid fuel into a vapor/gas. There should be a dish under the coil and that gets filled with Coleman fuel and lit to burn and preheat the coil generator. BUT, you’ll have a lot cleaner preheat if you use denatured alcohol instead of Coleman to preheat. Less soot and yellow flames. You can get denatured at Home Depot and other box home supply stores.

3. so put some fuel in the tank and pump some air into the tank with your pump. Put some denatured in the little dish and light it. Let it preheat the coil. When almost all the denatured has burned away, start opening the valve. Vaporized fuel should come out the little orifice, catch fire from the last of the preheat fuel and shoot flame up through the center of the coil. Don’t open the valve more than a couple of turns.

I like to use mineral oil like you get at the drug store for my leather pump cups. It’s a petroleum product, but you can eat it, so I reckon it’s safe for pump cups. It never goes rancid or gets gummy.

You do have a cup under your generator coil. Yours is just full of solder/lead and other garbage. Mine looked like yours when I got it, too.

I’d suggest lighting it outside with a fire extinguisher handy the first time around. Don’t fill the tank until you have it all figured out.

A squirt or two of carburetor cleaner in the Coleman fuel can help to melt out the old cruddy deposits from rancid gasoline.

Rinsing the tank with Coleman before you try to run it might be good, too. Just put some in and swish it around, then pour it out. Could keep your jet from clogging on tank debris.



Hopefully others will find this info and find it as helpful as I did.

Giving Credit where it is due: this info was from correspondence I had with BernieDawg from http://www.berniedawg.com based on a C&L restoration he did around the same time this post was originally started.

BernieDawg help me get my Bell Systems Kerosene lineman stove going.

About a year ago a friend gave me a old pot and ladle. Now about a year later he stops by with this iron contraption. "I think this goes with that pot and laddle"
Its labeled on the outer shell Bell Sytems
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_System

Its a Kerosene burner Linemen used for soldering lead joints. With a little cleaning and new seals it fired up. Still needs a little refinement and maybe some paint.
I used a pressure tester to test the the tank and seals. I dont plan on a lot of use.
Wanted to see it work and at least put a stop to the corrosion.

https://youtu.be/-HvjWc_FSVg
https://youtu.be/-HvjWc_FSVg