Help needed to identify this mold - "E. Keith" - all brass #454454

[buckstix]

I have a vintage 45 cal hollow point, all brass bullet mold, marked "454454" - "260G" - "E. KEITH" - "WAX"

I would like help in identifying the maker.

It casts a 262g bullet. Any suggestions where I might find some info would be appreciated.

here are some pics.


http://buckstix.com/buckpics/keith1a.jpg

http://buckstix.com/buckpics/keith2a.jpg

http://buckstix.com/buckpics/keith3a.jpg

http://buckstix.com/buckpics/keith4a.jpg

[StrawHat]

To my eyes, it appears to be a toolroom copy of the Lyman mold. Pattern makers have long been able to make a pattern of what they want and produce a one of a kind copy, usually for themselves. I have seen several such copies of things like the Stanley #1 hand plane and other hand planes, alos things like triger guards and buttplates for rifles.

I do not believe Keith ever did anything like that as he had all his molds cut by others, although....

It appears there is a casting flaw in the one half of the mold but that should not interfere with using it as it does not appear to go through to the cavity.

Have you tried casting with it? I recall EK designed the HP and wrote of it but did not use it very much.

It is a good looking mold.

[Glen]

That is a Yankee mould, made by the Yankee Specialty Company. Yankee was in business from 1916 through 1954, although they did most of their business before WW II. Most of their moulds were copies of the Lyman/Ideal designs (although this one doesn't appear to be). They have integral handles (with wired on wooden handles) and the moulds are machined from bronze or brass. Their HP moulds were made with the unique captive pedestal HP pin that your mould has. That's an interesting looking bullet. If you decide to sell the mould, I would be interested in it (I just love old HP bullets)...

[buckstix]

Yes, I now believe its a Yankee Mold. I found a site with some info. I wish I could find out exactly what the numbers mean.

[FN in MT]

Wonder how you would do sticking it on E-Bay?? "Bullet mould from the Elmer Keith estate".

I'm not suggesting any wrongful act...simply speculating. As my first thought when I saw it was; " Wouldn't it be cool if that belonged to EK"!!

FN in MT

[buckstix]

This mold originally belong to Elmer Keith.

I got this mold from my friend Walley who was a big Elmer Keith fan and met him years earlier in the 40's or 50's. Walley got it from Elmer at one of the Western NRA conventions. Walley later passed the mold on to me. When Walley passed away in Aug. 2006 at the age of 78, he had nearly 100 other molds. I purchased all of them from his estate, and kept the more unusual ones. I always wondered who might have made this mold for Elmer.

[MT Gianni]

My guess on the numbers is 454 diameter, 454 top punch, 260G = 260 grains weight.

[Bent Ramrod]

Keith's actual design for the .45 Colt was Ideal 454424, and for the .45 Auto, 452423, but those were the plain base flat point with the medium meplat. Your mould has the single lube groove and the heavy crimp groove, although the nose shape (hollow point ignored) is more like the 454190. It might have been a special Yankee number, or their "interpretation" of the Keith design. The "260G" is no doubt the nominal grain weight and "WAX" connotes where to put a spot of bullet lube, after the mold heats up, for lubrication of the hinge. (Pope moulds had "WAX" on them also.)

I have two Yankee moulds, and neither of them has "WAX" on them. They also have much smaller lube holes than the one you have. One says "W. Rohrbacher, Erie, PA," in two lines, but the letters are a single stamping rather than individually done as yours is. Also, the font is different for the letters, although the "5" on my "25 20" and "257" looks like the one on your "454454." It looks like the mould you have had the lettering hand stamped; maybe by Yankee, maybe by Keith his own self. He doesn't mention specifically in any of his writings I've read that he had the Yankee company make up designs for him, but he was conversant with Yankee moulds, and may have marked his stuff so people would return it after borrowing it.

You ought to show it on the ARTCA site and let those guys look it over. Yankee moulds are seldom encountered; yours is a great specimen.

[Bret4207]

I have copies of letters written by Elmer. Most were signed "Keith". I wonder if he would have tagged the mould himself? Seems more likely it was stamped at Yankee either for Keith or noting Keith used designs similar to that in the early days.

If someone wants to do a seance we can ask Elmer....

[MT Chambers]

Could it have belonged to the Legend himself? He's casting up there now, and maybe he wants it back, I'm not gonna tell him no!!