alternative ingots

[troy_mclure]

id like to gather a large amount of lead, but it would have to live at my storage unit. is there a better type of ingot i can make than muffins?
i was thinking of 1"-1.5" rods 2'-3' long, using threaded copper, or steel pipe with the correct ID.
have to have 2 pipes connected by a "U" to let air out, then pour by funnel at an angle till near full.
think this would work?

does anybody have any better storage ideas than 500 lead muffins?
or if the

[briang]

I see several problems with your pipe idea. Your would probably have to do multiple pours to fill the pipe, that may cause to layering and weak spots for the rod to break. How would you get the lead out of the U shaped pipe after it cooled? I like ingots that are straight sided, meaning no curves or round parts. This way they stack with little to no air space between them.

[xr650]

I don't understand the U connector thing.
Pipe or round bar dont stack so well.
Use angle or channel iron. You can cut the lengths as long as you want and weld the end closed.
I use 2" channel X 7" long. Short enough to use in my casting pot with out having to remelt.

[troy_mclure]

i was thinking you need 2 pipes or you are going to have bubbles or splatter as the air tries to get out.

i like the angle iron thing, 3' long, 3 sided?

[454PB]

Here's an ingot mould I welded together using 2" angle iron. The ingots weigh around 4 pounds and stack nicely.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5060&d=1191949259

[runfiverun]

i'll be building something very similar to what is pictured above.
bout 6" long each,and six to a gang.
for now i just use regular old ingot molds. but i think i can stack more weight with the triangles.

[Whitespider]

I made ingot molds to throw 2, 5 and 10 lb bricks.
The 10 pound go into long(er) term storage.
The 5 pound go into short(er) term storage.
The 2 pound go into the 'use now' stack.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12471&d=1238068605

[Bladebu1]

Here's an ingot mould I welded together using 2" angle iron. The ingots weigh around 4 pounds and stack nicely.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5060&d=1191949259

+2 don't forget to let it rust alittle

[jonk]

Ah but for those of us who don't know how to weld (or rather have tried it with poor results, but don't have the gear personally anyhow....................)

[cheese1566]

I was thinking if making some ingot molds based on the above pictures and design.

Do you have to weld the inner seams? I see the one above isn't...wondering if the molten lead will seep through and then lock the ingot in the mold.

[StrawHat]

I doubt the seams are as big as they appear, but a bead of weld or braze would take care of any problems.

Actually, those seams appear rather tight, good job of fitting 454PB!

[Old Ironsights]

1.5" angle iron, 5-7/8" long. 2# (+/-) per ingot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_5876.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_5877.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_5882.jpg

These fit into a Lee 8# pot nicely.

[454PB]

Actually I used my wire welder and all the welds are on the underside and not visible in this picture. It doesn't take much of a bead, and when it was finished, I found that I can use it upside down just as well as right side up. There is no leakage in the joints whatsoever.

[Mike W1]

I'm surprised nobody uses aluminum angle to make ingot moulds. Any reason why not?

[troy_mclure]

steel is cheaper, and easier to weld.

[Old Ironsights]

TiG welders can be a PITA ....

Even *I* can spot weld with an Arc setup.... (no, it won't be pretty.... but it will hold, and I won't burn through.)

[rhead]

Soda pop cans. Make sure they are dry on the inside. About 10 pounds each. Peel them with pliers before use. Different flavors for different alloys.

[Timberland]

Soda pop cans. Make sure they are dry on the inside. About 10 pounds each. Peel them with pliers before use. Different flavors for different alloys.
In ca they cost 5 cents each recycling is the law. I have been pouring lead into cinder blocks and then hammering them out, problem is I get concrete stuck. I need an angle Iorn contraption. You could just let it cool in the pot then stack them

[GLL]

Here is my favorite sold here on the Forum by jawjaboy !
Note the beautiful welds !

I now have seven of them ! Great for major batches !

Makes 5 pound ingots. These happen to be 60/40 solder. 75 pound worth !! :) :)

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/5A6777B8FA7EE62/orig.jpg

[lawboy]

I regularly cast ingots in 12oz aluminum soda cans (use a can opener to remove the top). I have cast several hundred ingots like this and no issues with air bubbles trying to escape yet. They weight a little more than 8lbs with my alloy, about a 20:1 mixture.

[snuffy]

A long time friend AND gunshop owner has a fab shop in back as well. He cast boolits too. He made this once from drops from some 3 X 1.5 channel. It's 4.5 inches long.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P3270144.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P3270145.JPG

That ingot is 5#, not filled out because the mold was cold, and I was pouring from a lee 4-20, not much flow. He borrowed it to me for when I re-melt all that range lead I have to do. My job is to test it, then I might make a few more!

[Dale53]

I have shown these before (similar to the ones above). I have three of these moulds and several of the regular Lyman, Saeco, and Lee moulds. I set them up and "Let 'em rip!"

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1769.jpg

The angle iron ingot moulds produce a 3½ lb ingot that stand on end VERY well in the RCBS electric pot. The 1 lb and ½ lb ingots enable me to alloy in the pot just before casting.

I smelt ONE time. For me the ingots must be usable in my RCBS pots without smelting a second time. I Keep the ingots in a container (mostly milk crates). I label the container and am careful to keep them separate.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1780.jpg

Dale53

[jawjaboy]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/jawjaboy/IMG_0050Small.jpg

[cohutt]

one of jawjaboy's original mold versions, drops between 6 and 7 lbs depending on alloy. stack nicely offset 1x3

with standard lyman ingot in it for scale:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/misc021.jpg

fill 'em up please:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/Smelt%20101/smelt017.jpg


Galena towers Phase I, back before phase II, III, & IV were added:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/pb/misc106.jpg

[TAWILDCATT]

I was going to sujest channel iron but I see jawjaboy?? already has them.I had a comercial mold that went 10# but gave it to nabor when I moved south.should of taken one more truck trip,as I would be rich with what I left.
chipper lawn mowers 30 20# gas tanks 2 drill presses and more.oh well to late
:coffee:[smilie=1:

[fallout4x4]

I had this one made for me, but its too big for my smelting operation. the ingots fit in my lee prod. pot 4, but I don't smelt big batches that can fill it all the time.
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/fallout4x4/PICT0329.jpg

http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/fallout4x4/PICT0332.jpg

I havent put it up in the swappin and sellin subforum yet. Make an offer and you can have first dibs.

[Tom Herman]

Great pics and discussion! I'm envious of those of you that have talent and the tools available to make your molds reality.
From a purely mathematical viewpoint, storing circular materials is a waste of space, as well as being cumbersome.
If you do the math, and compare circular materials to square (or rectangular) ones, here's where we are (Assume a 1" dimension):
The area of a square (two dimensions) is height times width, or 1" x 1", which gives us an area of 1 square inch.
The area of a crcle 1" in diameter is Pi x radius squared, thus: 3.14159 x (1/2) squared, or 3.14159 x 1/4, ot about .785 square inches.
Aside from the fact that circular stuff is a pain in the butt to store, you simply can't get the stacking efficiency of square or rectangular shapes.
I would also much rather drop an ingot out of my Lyman or RCBS molds than to try to pound or force one out of a pipe.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[deltaenterprizes]

Mini loaf pans at Walmart! Be careful, the silver ones are tin coated. They also sell the disposable ones made from aluminum foil.

[C1PNR]

IIRC it was BruceB who suggested what I did. 1 1/2" channel cut about 1/2" shorter than the length of an ammo can. We sealed the ends with flat bar just a little longer than needed, so I could add "handles."

The triangle shapes fit together nicely in the ammo can, and you can still get your finger in at the end to pull out 1 or more ingots at a time.

I got my Brother to do the welding (outside only) and I added flat bar handles on a bolt hinge for easy dumping. The handles fold back along the mould for storage.

Ammo cans are cheap, stack well, and you can just move a full one without resorting to a furniture dolly.[smilie=1:

[Brick85]

IIRC it was BruceB who suggested what I did. 1 1/2" channel cut about 1/2" shorter than the length of an ammo can. We sealed the ends with flat bar just a little longer than needed, so I could add "handles."

The triangle shapes fit together nicely in the ammo can, and you can still get your finger in at the end to pull out 1 or more ingots at a time.

I got my Brother to do the welding (outside only) and I added flat bar handles on a bolt hinge for easy dumping. The handles fold back along the mould for storage.

Ammo cans are cheap, stack well, and you can just move a full one without resorting to a furniture dolly.[smilie=1:

How much does an ammo can full of lead weigh? I'm guessing a good 50 lbs, easy. I know from salvaging birdshot that a gallon weighs around 50 lbs.

I just scored some 3/4" x 3/4" angle iron today, really thin stuff, but should work. I have no welding skill but a friend has offered to teach me and I figure this would be a great way to learn. What I was originally thinking was to weld them together as a channel (two of the "L" shapes make a "U"), and then divide the channel, maybe 1.5" x .75" x 5", but I don't know if this is feasible. I'd prefer rectangular ingots, because they'd stack really easy. Wouldn't the triangles be a fairly poor use of space unless you stack them opposite one another, and contain the ends?

I'm thinking to make up some boxes out of scrap plywood, anyway, and I could just stack them inside the boxes. Cheaper than ammo cans, for me at least.

How much capacity should I make up? 10 lbs? 20 lbs? I can get a ton of scrap angle iron if I grab it in the next couple days. I don't even have a smelting setup yet, so perhaps I ought to err on the side of optimism?

[thenaaks]

lead density is .4104 lb/cubic in
50 cal ammo box 11x5.5x7=423.5 cu in
423.5 x .4104= 173.8 pounds of lead in a 50 cal ammo box
that's a hernia for sure!!!

[geargnasher]

I truly envy all of you who have such huge storage limitations that you have to make ingot moulds the most effecient shape to store your hundreds of pounds!!:violin:

I also envy Felix's MOAS, though I could easily make one I will probably never see enough scrap lead at one time to fill one!
(Sniff, pout, covet).

Just kidding, guys, great pics and ideas for all of us.

Gear

[fredj338]

You need to worry more about how they fit in your casting pot than your storage unit. I used to use a mini loaf pan, but now also use molds from jawjaboy. I only fill them half way, makes about 3# ingot & fits nicely in the Lee 20#, abit snug in the 10#, but that one only gets fed 1# Lyman ingots for HP casting. Adding much more metal than 6# to the 20# pot at 1/2 full, cuts your casting tempo way down & you have to wait for it to come back up.

[Old Ironsights]

...
I just scored some 3/4" x 3/4" angle iron today, really thin stuff, but should work. I have no welding skill but a friend has offered to teach me and I figure this would be a great way to learn. What I was originally thinking was to weld them together as a channel (two of the "L" shapes make a "U"), and then divide the channel, maybe 1.5" x .75" x 5", but I don't know if this is feasible. I'd prefer rectangular ingots, because they'd stack really easy. Wouldn't the triangles be a fairly poor use of space unless you stack them opposite one another, and contain the ends?...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_5873.jpg

On the left is the beginnings of my 2# WW ingot stack. On the right, is 99% of my Lyman pb stack.

Yes, you need to stack the triangle ingots face-to-face on one edge to get maximum storage density, but I will be getting about 1200lbs into that little nook under my bench.

[Brick85]

You need to worry more about how they fit in your casting pot than your storage unit. I used to use a mini loaf pan, but now also use molds from jawjaboy. I only fill them half way, makes about 3# ingot & fits nicely in the Lee 20#, abit snug in the 10#, but that one only gets fed 1# Lyman ingots for HP casting. Adding much more metal than 6# to the 20# pot at 1/2 full, cuts your casting tempo way down & you have to wait for it to come back up.

I actually don't even have my casting setup yet (gave what rudimentary setup I used to have to a friend). What length is appropriate? 5" or so seems like it'd fit in any reasonable-sized pot, and I can't think I'd go bigger than 20# (though 20# of liquid lead isn't really that big!). I'm hoping to manage to drop a steel or cast-iron pot into a wood stove I have, set it up outside, and cast nearly for free; and if that fails I could put it on a small propane burner. Probably ladle-cast, at least til I figure out a way to bottom pour from inside a wood stove.




On the left is the beginnings of my 2# WW ingot stack. On the right, is 99% of my Lyman pb stack.

Yes, you need to stack the triangle ingots face-to-face on one edge to get maximum storage density, but I will be getting about 1200lbs into that little nook under my bench.

Yeah, when you think about it that way, it's not such a chore to contain the triangles. Nice stack on those trapezoidals by the way--I never thought to stack them in opposition.

[hoosierlogger]

I know from salvaging birdshot that a gallon weighs around 50 lbs.



A half gallon milk jug of .356 boolits weighs in at about 30 Lbs. So I would assume birdshot weighs more

[Brick85]

A half gallon milk jug of .356 boolits weighs in at about 30 Lbs. So I would assume birdshot weighs more

Probably. This was just by feel--it tore my arm off about as much as a sheet of sheetrock does (which is to say not that much, but enough).

[chemist308]

Mini loaf pans at Walmart! Be careful, the silver ones are tin coated. They also sell the disposable ones made from aluminum foil.

Neat idea. Now I'll be able to easily tell the pure stuff from the ww stuff.

[jar-wv]

So far I've been using soda cans. 2 in a 20 lb Lee pot and a bit of solder usually fills it up. They do take up a bit of space storing them but thats no problem. Lots of outbuildings.

jar

[Leadsmith]

I use the same technique C1PNR talked about, 1 1/2 angle iron that is 5 inches long. Each one weighs about 3 pounds, and my 50 cal ammo cans hold about 90 pounds when mostly full. I don't fill them all the way up cause I can't handle more weight very easily.

I also use the ammo cans to store my unsmelted lino and mono type that is in small pieces. Works well, I can just stack the cans up against the wall and I mark the can with the content and weight.

Bob

[anachronism]

In ca they cost 5 cents each recycling is the law. I have been pouring lead into cinder blocks and then hammering them out, problem is I get concrete stuck. I need an angle Iorn contraption. You could just let it cool in the pot then stack them

Peel the aluminum off the ingot when it's cool with pliers & see if they'll accept the can in that state.

[troy_mclure]

ive got a 3gal bucket 3/4 full of shot, 6 bags of 25lbs.
i cant pick it up, even tho i can pick up 150lb stuff all day.

[mold maker]

With today's prices on ammo cans, we gotta find a cheaper way to store lead.
I stack mine in free milk crates, but ya better be sure it is where ya want it, cause it holds 475 + lbs. Even if you could lift it, the crates wont stand moving. I lucked up many years ago and scored a doz. of the old heavy wire crates. They can be moved with good hand trucks.
I do use ammo cans to store cast boolits, to avoid oxidation. They justify the ammo can price, and keep my bench rock solid.

[Brick85]

With today's prices on ammo cans, we gotta find a cheaper way to store lead.
I stack mine in free milk crates, but ya better be sure it is where ya want it, cause it holds 475 + lbs. Even if you could lift it, the crates wont stand moving. I lucked up many years ago and scored a doz. of the old heavy wire crates. They can be moved with good hand trucks.
I do use ammo cans to store cast boolits, to avoid oxidation. They justify the ammo can price, and keep my bench rock solid.

I think plywood boxes are a pretty good solution, but I haven't tried it yet. Make 'em about the size of an ammo can, with some holes in the top to grab them by, and nail it together with some ring-shank box nails of some sort. First I have to make some ingots to put in the boxes. . .

[creophus]

Looking good fellas!