Antimony Anybody?

[shooterchris]

Ok,
Really straightforeward question here that I'm sure a lot of us newer guys would like to know. Where, aside from 95% tin/ 5% antimony solder can someone obtain antimony? To get the alloy that I am trying to get and make the ingots here (not pay way too much for it) I need a higher percentage of antimony in it. This will be impossible to do pouring 95% tin into my furnace witn only 5% antimony with it. Any ideas or knowhow would be greatly appreciated.:castmine:
Chris

[the_ursus]

Rotometals caries it. I've believe it requires a special flux to blend it with lead so research it. Here's the link. http://www.rotometals.com/Antimony-s/1.htm I've been thinking of going this route since I have some pure lead that needs some help.

Luke

[sleeper1428]

Antimony is also available from Bill Ferguson, 'The Antimony Man', who also carries tin and bullet metals as well as plumber's furnaces, melting pots, Rowell ladles, etc. He has it in chunks as well as fines and dust but unfortunately he no longer supplies the flux (zinc/ammonium chloride) that is pretty much essential in melting antimony into a lead/tin melt. This flux is fairly toxic but is still available under the name of Kleanrol and is produced and marketed by the Zaclon Corporation. Unfortunately, the smallest quantity they sell is around a 50lb drum and that's WAY more than you will use in a lifetime of smelting. But perhaps if you're really interested you could get together a group and purchase one of the small drums. As I said, it will be far more than you'll ever need but that may be the only way you'll ever get it.

Bill Ferguson's website is: www.theantimonyman.com and the webpage listing Zaclon's Kleanrol is: www.zaclon.com/pdf/kleanrol_data.pdf. Hope this info helps you out.

sleeper1428

[runfiverun]

i have had some success with using marvelux to flux in antimony.
tried it on a whim, it works,but it is even slower then the flux bill used to sell.
i would try to get one of the "type" metals. it saves a lot of time.

[Salmon-boy]

I've actually done some 20% antimony alloy. I've also got a furnace I melt Aluminum in so getting to Antimony temps is not the problem - overheating it is. For a flux, I use charcoal - Just enough to cover.

Adding the Lead is tricky. It gets very soupy at molten antimony heats, and sublimes VERY easily. It must be mixed without cooling the antimony too much and the whole bunch cooled rather quickly WITHOUT water!

20% is MUCH higher than a eutectic alloy of 6% and as such, mixing with pure lead must be done at higher temps than normal (750 to 800 deg) which causes health problems unless you're well ventilated. If you stick to lower casting temps when mixing, you'll wind up with a the crystalline antimony separating out and floating to the surface,

[sleeper1428]

Yeah, I can imagine that it probably is pretty slow. I don't know whether you remember a company named LETS (Leading Edge Tool Service) that stocked crushed antimony, bar tin, plumber's furnaces, etc., back in the 1980s and early 1990s. They sold what they called 'Alloyer's Flux' which, according to Bill Ferguson who, as I recall eventually bought out LETS, is nothing more than zinc/ammonium chloride. Anyway, when LETS was about to close up shop, I decided to stock up so I bought 100+ lbs of crushed antimony, 50+ lbs of tin in 1lb bars and plenty of Alloyer's Flux so I think I'm pretty well set up for making bullet metal - provided I can keep getting WWs - for as long as I'll be shooting. Unfortunately, the Alloyer's Flux is terribly hygroscopic so most of the plastic jugs, even though I've kept them well sealed and in plastic freezer bags, are now pretty well solidified so when I want to use it I have to chip some out of a jug and crush it before I can use it. Works fine but adds another step to the process.

sleeper1428

[Shiloh]

Does antimony sort of "dissolve" into the lead/tin alloy, or do you need the special flux??

Shiloh

[sleeper1428]

Does antimony sort of "dissolve" into the lead/tin alloy, or do you need the special flux??

Shiloh

Some casters on this forum seem to have discovered a way to get antimony into the lead/tin solution without the use of a zinc/ammonium chloride flux. Do a search on this and you will likely turn up that thread. Personally, I use that special Alloyer's Flux simply because I have more than enough to last me for the rest of my time on this old rock and also because it works so quickly and so well.

sleeper1428

[shooterchris]

Does anyone who has some flux (chunked up or not) and some antomony be willing to part with a few pounds to help out a beginner? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help guys! Send me a privte message if you would be willing to sell a little flux and antimony.
Chris

[Tom Herman]

I'll have to investigate this. Possibly search for an MSDS, and that may give percentages and other ingredients.
A Zink chloride/Ammonium Chloride mixture shouldn't be too hard to come up with. Both can be easily amnufactured.
Zink can be dissolved in Muriatic (Hydrochloric acid), (caution! evolution of flammable Hydrogen gas!) to produce Zink Chloride.
It can be concentrated and dehydrated from there.
Ammonium Chloride is know as Sal Ammonia, and should be easily purchasable.
If not, then Muriatic Acid and Ammonia make Ammonium Chloride...
It can be very easily concentrated.
Then it's a matter of getting the proportions right.
Just my two cents worth....

Happy Shootin'! -Tom




He has it in chunks as well as fines and dust but unfortunately he no longer supplies the flux (zinc/ammonium chloride) that is pretty much essential in melting antimony into a lead/tin melt. This flux is fairly toxic but is still available under the name of Kleanrol and is produced and marketed by the Zaclon Corporation. Unfortunately, the smallest quantity they sell is around a 50lb drum and that's WAY more than you will use in a lifetime of smelting. But perhaps if you're really interested you could get together a group and purchase one of the small drums. As I said, it will be far more than you'll ever need but that may be the only way you'll ever get it.

Bill Ferguson's website is: www.theantimonyman.com and the webpage listing Zaclon's Kleanrol is: www.zaclon.com/pdf/kleanrol_data.pdf. Hope this info helps you out.

sleeper1428

[troy_mclure]

my dad works at a foundry, i might have him bring me home a few lbs of antimony. they use it in 55gal barrel sized lots.

[shooterchris]

my dad works at a foundry, i might have him bring me home a few lbs of antimony. they use it in 55gal barrel sized lots.

That would be awesome, I'm only looking for 10 lbs or so to try to make up a batch of alloy. Keep in touch with me and we can work something out on getting it. Let me know what you want for it, and good looking out!:castmine:
Chris

[shooterchris]

I've actually done some 20% antimony alloy. I've also got a furnace I melt Aluminum in so getting to Antimony temps is not the problem - overheating it is. For a flux, I use charcoal - Just enough to cover.

Adding the Lead is tricky. It gets very soupy at molten antimony heats, and sublimes VERY easily. It must be mixed without cooling the antimony too much and the whole bunch cooled rather quickly WITHOUT water!

20% is MUCH higher than a eutectic alloy of 6% and as such, mixing with pure lead must be done at higher temps than normal (750 to 800 deg) which causes health problems unless you're well ventilated. If you stick to lower casting temps when mixing, you'll wind up with a the crystalline antimony separating out and floating to the surface,

What is the melting temp of antimony and how much lead did you find that you can add at a time to the alloy? Also someone else suggested marveluk.....ever tried that? Thanks

Chris

[Salmon-boy]

IIRC, the melting point for pure antimony is around 1150 deg f. You want to be slightly above that (100 to 200 deg, we all have thermocouples, right?) so it doesn't solidify when you add the lead.

As for how much lead, it's a matter of math and how big your burner is.. I'm using a Mike Porter-style 3/4 inch burner in a Propane tank furnace, so I did roughly 5lbs of alloy at a time.. As for the math, I took the easy route.. Measured in grams, 100g Antimony to 400g Lead makes 20% alloy. You could also go the whole way of 1in20 so 100g Antimony to 1900g Lead to make a 5% alloy.

[KYCaster]

You don't need to melt the Antimony and you don't need the Zinc/Ammonia flux. The Sb will disolve in lead at normal boolit casting temp.

This has been duscussed here several times. There was a thread four or five months ago with a detailed description of 44man's method using Bill Ferguson's flux and a description of my method using boolit lube for a flux.

A search for Antimony should turn it up.

Jerry