Chamber Ringing

[joeb33050]

"Ringing" chambers
Much has been written about "ringing" chambers when wads, particularly Dacron wads, are used over powder.
I have used Dacron wads for many years in cartridges from 223 Rem to 45/70, shooting thousands -maybe tens of thousands-of shots, and have never ringed a chamber.
I have read intricate explanations of how the ringing occurs, written by presumably sincere folks who were substituting theory and/or conjecture for fact.
Ed Lander, a Massachusetts gunsmith at the time, said that he believed that chamber ringing was caused by a chip catching in the reamer during the chambering process. He suggested that repeated use of one cartridge case during breech seating allowed the brass to flow into the ring.
I've read everything I can find, nothing convincing so far. The list is below.
I'm looking for data that supports the wad-ringing explanation. I do not need any more theories unsupported by data, my file is full.
Thanks;
joe b.
References:
"This Chamber Ring Thing", John Campbell, Precision Shooting, May 2000
Chapter 17B, "Chamber Ringing", C. Dell, "The Modern Schuetzen Rifle, 2nd Edition
"Chamber Rings and Natural Fibers", ASSRA Journal, Jul-Aug 1998, J. Campbell
"Chamber Rings, Another View" ASSRA Journal, Jul-Aug 2002, M.L.MxPherson
ASSRA Journal letters etc:, Volume, No., Pg. Author
47,6,14 J. Campbell
48,3,20 H. Angus
48,3,23 J. Brennan
48,4,16 L. Thompson
48,4,17 J. Childs
50,4,22 J. Campbell

[lovedogs]

joeb33050...Can't give you any data or reasons but it sure can ruin a nice rifle. I know of two guys who've had it happen to their rifles. One a beautiful Wycliffe, the other a Trapdoor Springfield... both .45-70's. When I first started playing with .45-70's, only about two yrs. ago, I wanted to use smokeless and had heard so many stories from all directions so I called Hodgdon, Accurate, Alliant, and IMR (now operated by Hodgdon) to ask them. I spoke to ballisticians, men who know more than I'll ever pretend to. Every one of them cautioned against using any fillers of any kind with smokeless. We talked about corn meal, Cream of Wheat, dacron, cotton... all sorts of fillers. They gave reasonable explanations for not using each of the different kinds we discussed. The only one that said there might be one filler that was safe, and he didn't fully like the idea, said a piece of plain old toilet paper, wadded and pressed tight so powder couldn't work around it could work. But he also said if you use a powder that was developed to be used in a situation like presented with the .45-70, small amount of powder in large case, you don't need a filler. He mentioned Accurate 5744 as the best one for this purpose.

Last summer I worked with Reloder 7, 4198, and 5744 using 300 gr. jacketed and 500 gr. cast lead to find what worked best. When loading density was low I found the 4198 to be position sensitive. It still went bang, but it lost velocity unless the muzzle was raised before the shot. If you forget to position the powder before the shot it could cost points in long-range silhouettes. Reloder 7 was a little better. With jacketed it worked real well but with lead I had to keep the charge up a ways to keep it from being slightly position sensitive. I was looking to keep velocities down (and recoil) with lead so I passed on #7 for lead. It was by far the best for jacketed, however. The Accurate 5744, though real dirty burning, worked great with lead. Even got less leading using it. Their ballistician claims you can decrease it down to the level that you'll stick a bullet in the barrel. I found it shot great, gave the velocity I required, and was just what I wanted to shoot lead with smokeless. No filler needed or recommended with 5744.

All I can do is relate my experience to you. I hope it helps. If you have any questions feel free to contact me or, better yet, call the ballisticians. I've found them glad to help and more knowledgable than most of us fellows who didn't study the subject but usually go on conjecture or rumors.

[StarMetal]

lovedogs,

First off those guys, being they work for a company that makes or sells gunpowder are going to give you answer from a legal aspect. I don't blame them for that.

Second that one tech that told you toilet paper should be wadded up and pack tightly doesn't know what he's talking about. He should be removed from answering questions over the phone.

Like I said before, nobody (unless they aren't talking and telling) knows exactly what's causing ringing of chambers. If they did they could do a test over and over again repeately with 100 percent results...thus have the proof. So far they don't. Don't go believing what those techs tell you as 100 percent the gospel truth.

Joe